View Full Version : No VW, Audi Or Porsche At Indy
Not a good idea to do that at this time according to boss Nissen, citing IRL "weakness." Gee, ya think!? Autosport. Guess it's up to Fiat and Honda. Wonder how that one will turn out.
The idiots think they can attract someone by offering them the chance to pay for the new car.
Gee, fellas, do you think maybe you should create something of value, and then try to sell it?
JohnHKart
01-12-10, 01:26 PM
I'm enjoying watching documentaries so much this off season, that I don't know if I can handle another season of IRL or Nascar. I'm considering cutting way back on the crap. NHRA and F1 are what get my adrenaline going- wouldn't ever miss one of those races.
Oh, and remember...same old crapwagon but they want a turbo. Crikey, talk about baby steps. I hear even NASCAB is studying a HUGE sox-knocking high tech change...fuel injection! Revolutionary!
oddlycalm
01-13-10, 04:58 AM
Gee, fellas, do you think maybe you should create something of value, and then try to sell it?
If they lived in a fact based reality that would seem logical and might have even occurred to them. The beauty of insular thinking is that you never have to examine the hard realities. If you pretend that you live at the nexus of civilization and your race is the most important in the world, then you do and it is. :tony:
Now even the village idiot has been dismissed, Cotman has left the building and the only people left are the toadies and yes men without chins or testicles. But I digress.....:D
oc
Meanwhile, Robin Miller and the team owners must be sharing their stashes.
Milller: Don't Fear 2012 (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-dont-fear-2012/)
The naysayers scoff at 325 horsepower and a chassis that’s going to weigh significantly less than a sprint car while the Delta Wing LLC. group is jazzed about the in-line 4 turbo engine’s sound, mileage and identity with the American car manufacturer.
An open wheel purist will likely have difficulty embracing the radical look at first but that was the same reaction the roadster devotees felt when the rear-engine revolution broke out.
But, the bottom line is that IndyCar is long overdue for a makeover because running the same car for seven seasons has made things boring, predictable and did I mention boring?
The owners are not on the same page as IMS/IRL and the they apparently aren't even in the same book. With this kind of difference in thinking will there be an owners' group running the series fairly soon?
The owners are not on the same page as IMS/IRL and the they apparently aren't even in the same book. With this kind of difference in thinking will there be an owners' group running the series fairly soon?
No, the IRL was started to avoid such a possibility from occurring. :tony:
Sean Malone
01-13-10, 12:37 PM
I missed something...the new car is going to have 325hp?:confused:
Sean Malone
01-13-10, 03:19 PM
"We idolized Jim Hurtubise, Jim Clark and Parnelli Jones and we paid even more attention when they were in the Novi, the Lotus and the turbine. Roger Penske tried three chassis in 1995 and still couldn’t make the show a year after dominating Indy and there’s never been a bigger crowd on Bump Day. "
But a field of 2012 Delta Wings, no matter how avant garde they may be, is still a field of spec 2012 Delta Wings which will probably produce the same malaise that a spec field of Dallara's do or even DP01's did.
in the recent Cotman thread I commented on how anticlimactic his 'story line' turned out, but in truth...everything that comes into contact with the IRL turns anticlimactic and I'm predicting the same with the new Indy Car. The IRL will suck any creative, competitive life out of anything.
But a field of 2012 Delta Wings, no matter how avant garde they may be, is still a field of spec 2012 Delta Wings which will probably produce the same malaise that a spec field of Dallara's do or even DP01's did.
I think they said that the concept was more of a "tub", with add-ons to buy and customize. Could be wrong though. It's supposed to have 3 wheels and 325 HP, so who knows?
Not real sure though. Anyway, there will be no one left in 2012.
Sean Malone
01-13-10, 04:03 PM
... It's supposed to have 3 wheels and 325 HP, so who knows?
Woohoo...can't wait!! :rolleyes:
Not real sure though. Anyway, there will be no one left in 2012.
Yep.
Napoleon
01-13-10, 04:21 PM
I would say Miller is pretty much spot on in his take.
oddlycalm
01-13-10, 05:03 PM
Barnhart will be the biggest obstacle either because he feels threatened or ostracized but, considering his total lack of effort in addressing new cars, budgets or rules, he seems to be part of the problem instead of the solution.
A sure sign that management is continuing in the wrong direction is that Cotman is walking out the door and Brainfart is still running the show. The exact opposite would have been the way to go if they wanted at least an outside chance to succeed. :shakehead
oc
A sure sign that management is continuing in the wrong direction is that Cotman is walking out the door and Brainfart is still running the show. The exact opposite would have been the way to go if they wanted at least an outside chance to succeed. :shakehead
oc
Unfortunately, you're probably correct. Cotman could have been a change agent. Now, it just more of the same.
You do know that an up-powered turbo-4 Atlantic is just what Cotman suggested for Lights. Does it sound like maybe somebody saw merit in that idea and decided to make it the "Big Car?" C'mon some of you mathaletes out there, how light would a 325-350 hp car have to be...to be as fast as a 650 hp Dallara? On road courses the 300 hp na Atlantic was already faster than the 400+hp Lights cars, right? Aero accounted for a major part of that too, I think.
Nothing they do will stop the mudslide they're riding on.
It's supposed to have 3 wheels and 325 HP, so who knows?
???
http://i47.tinypic.com/2h3bxoh.jpg
I like the DP01 photo with the article. Made the field competitive and all, but of course we need to reinvent the wheel?
Sean Malone
01-13-10, 10:59 PM
C'mon some of you mathaletes out there, how light would a 325-350 hp car have to be...to be as fast as a 650 hp Dallara?
Really light.
???
http://i47.tinypic.com/2h3bxoh.jpg
I like the DP01 photo with the article. Made the field competitive and all, but of course we need to reinvent the wheel?
No, we don't. They should just write the rules up to suit the DP01 or the Formula Nippon car, and just get Swift to build it.
What makes them think they will attract new teams and sponsers with some weird sportscar/motorcycle hybrid. Stupid.
Andrew Longman
01-14-10, 11:23 AM
I would say Miller is pretty much spot on in his take.
Except that he shows a gram of optimism. Probably just trying to protect the reason for his profession
Andrew Longman
01-14-10, 11:24 AM
Anyway, there will be no one left in 2012.
There is no body left now. VW just said so.
Andrew Longman
01-14-10, 11:29 AM
I like the DP01 photo with the article.
That might have worked if it happened as part of the "merger". It would have been an admission that the economics and technology of the sport needed to change, it would have solidified and embraced the notion of just what a Champcar really is, and it would have been visible evidence that the merger actually represented change and progress.
Now it just look desperate to replace an eight year old car with a defunct car, even if it otherwise makes a ton of sense.
Sean Malone
01-14-10, 11:51 AM
That might have worked if it happened as part of the "merger". It would have been an admission that the economics and technology of the sport needed to change, it would have solidified and embraced the notion of just what a Champcar really is, and it would have been visible evidence that the merger actually represented change and progress.
Now it just look desperate to replace an eight year old car with a defunct car, even if it otherwise makes a ton of sense.
Yep. I think that single biggest failure in the so called 'merger' was not incorporating the DP-01 into Indy Car.
Trevor Longman
01-14-10, 04:18 PM
Why doesn't Honda drop the engine from this thing in the back of an crapwagon? Sure, they would still be ugly as **** but at least they would sound fantastic! Turn up the volume... :cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCqY-vAX4EA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyVMGCxBi8s
That's Honda's new super gt contender for next year.
Andrew Longman
01-14-10, 06:34 PM
Turn up the volume... :cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCqY-vAX4EA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyVMGCxBi8s
I can see I have raised you quite well, son. That tingle in your loins is quite normal. ;)
Sometimes I think Honda wants the IRL to suck.
The funny thing is, it's like CART's revenge. Honda is the gift that keeps on giving.
oddlycalm
01-15-10, 04:24 AM
Sometimes I think Honda wants the IRL to suck.
The funny thing is, it's like CART's revenge. Honda is the gift that keeps on giving.
They certainly don't want to spend $2 on it. If they had any pride left as a company they wouldn't allow a series to run a badged lump as pathetic as the Ilmor is. Of course if they had any pride they wouldn't have gotten involved with the EARL to begin with.
oc
Sometimes I think Honda wants the IRL to suck.
I think the problem is there is no incentive for them to make it NOT suck - if that makes any sense. No one holds them accountable for the suckage.
stroker
01-15-10, 10:09 AM
No one holds them accountable for the suckage.
Sure they can. We could boycott the races!
Oh, wait...
Just what America needs...a great Japanese Super GT series! (Nismo better get their act together.)
I think the problem is there is no incentive for them to make it NOT suck - if that makes any sense. No one holds them accountable for the suckage.
The real Honda died with Soichiro in 1991. It doesn't take very long for a company to lose its way once the founder dies. Now there are just a bunch of accountants who are only interested in HPD not losing money.
The real Honda died with Soichiro in 1991. It doesn't take very long for a company to lose its way once the founder dies. Now there are just a bunch of accountants who are only interested in HPD not losing money.
While looking up former Honda CEO's I came across this interesting snippet from this article about Nobuhiko Kawamoto, former Honda F1 mechanic (and Brabhams F2 mechanic) and Honda CEO.
The success propelled Kawamoto to the top of Honda. In May 1990 he replaced Tadashi Kume as president and chief executive of the whole company Honda company. Kawamoto quickly realised that Honda could not afford to continue in F1 and at the end of 1992 he pulled the company out of the sport. His ultimate aim however remained to have a winning Honda car and engine combination. During the 1990s Kawamoto reorganised the whole company, slashed costs and expanded the all-important US market. In 1998 he was finally able to give the go-ahead for Honda to return to F1 with a complete team.
A factory was established in England under Harvey Postlethwaite and Dallara in Italy built the prototype cars in secret. But that year Kawamoto was ousted in a power struggle and, under pressure from the American Honda Motor company - which wanted nothing to do with an F1 programme - the new chief executive Hiroyuki Yoshino decided to axe the Honda F1 team and do a deal with British American Racing for the 2000 season.
That's Honda's new super gt contender for next year.
Top Gear on the new Honda here. (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/honda-hsv-010-gt500-2010-01-18)
Top Gear on the new Honda here. (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/honda-hsv-010-gt500-2010-01-18)
That sounds to me like Honda kept back some (maybe a lot) of the tech from their F1 program.
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