Real Race Drivers

[RichK]

So I'm reading a book on motor racing in the 1920's (see Off forum thread that Ziggy started), and it is striking how fast these guys were going in cars with spindly wheels, no seat belts, no helmets while wearing a bow tie and goggles.

I've always wondered which modern day drivers would still be racing if the sport were still as dangerous as it was?

Probably Mario would have, Juan Montoya for sure. I'm wondering about Schumacher. Others?

[RacinM3]

Ralf Schumacher would be flipping burgers.

[Ziggy]

RichK, isnt that a wonderful book? Gary Doyle should win some sort of award.

Ziggy

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by Ziggy
Gary Doyle should win some sort of award.


Well there are the Emmys and the Tonis. Why not start the Ziggys for the best motorsport book of the year. It could be awarded by a panel consisting of, well, Ziggy.

[Ziggy]

Hey Thanks Nappy

I do love to study the history of the sport. Im just trying to live up to the gauntlet of passion thrown down by the likes of Depender and Kickstand!

Dick Wallen has a new book with comprehensive coverage of the entire 1970's (to go along with his books on the 50's and 60's) which should also be excellent. Gary's book did come out in 2002, and I have read none finer from that year.

The book "Porsche 917, The Winning Formula" by Peter Morgan, forward by Professor Helmut Flegl (1999, Haynes Publishing, Library of Congress # 99-72050) was also an excellent book which set's the hallmark for comprehensive coverage of a make and type IMO.

Check out eBay as this book can be found at a bargin basement price!

You want the truth? You cant handle the truth!

Ziggy

[Hink]

Michael Schumacher probably wouldn't be racing. Certainly not for as long as he has.

Paul Tracy would be. Carp probably would be. Fernandez - I think so.

[RaceGrrl]

Zanardi.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by Ziggy
Im just trying to live up to the gauntlet of passion thrown down by the likes of Depender and Kickstand!

And here I was going to suggest they sit on the panel with you.

Seriously, maybe someone like Racer magazine really should have a panel of a few motorsports writers or knowledgable fans pick the best motorsports/car book of the year. It would be interesting to be able to pick up an article on the winner and a few runners up in Novemeber when your trying to figure what to buy that racing fan on your xmas list.

[RichK]

RacinM3: :laugh:

I think Michael Andretti would be working the fries alongside Ralfie.

[Racewriter]

Sure, most of 'em would. You wouldn't even weed out most of the rich dilettantes - they had them back then, and some of them got killed. Ever heard the name David Bruce-Brown?

To put it another way, it's all a matter of perspective. If you don't KNOW that helmets can protect like they do now, a cloth helmet or a polo helmet seems perfectly reasonable. My dad quit racing in 1976, and even in his last seasons raced in a T-shirt and jeans from time to time. In 1994, I had a backup car and we decided that he'd drive it in a few shows. He wouldn't do it without ordering a new double-layer Nomex from Hinchman.

Why? Because now he knows. The guys in the 20s didn't know, and if Bill Simpson, Lew Hinchman, etc. had never advanced racing safety to the degree it is now, the guys now wouldn't know, either.

[cartmanoz]

Originally posted by RacinM3
Ralf Schumacher would be flipping burgers.

Micky the Schu would be right beside him. He pissed his pants when he tested Patrick Tambays 1983 Ferrari.

[oddlycalm]

To me, the scariest part of the old iron, racing or otherwise, was the complete lack of anything approaching effective brakes. Until you've ridden or driven a car or bike capable of huge speed, but with nearly non-existent stoppers, you really can't grasp what it used to be like to go very fast.

On motorcycles during the pre-disc era, racing brakes were giant four leading shoe affairs with complicated mechanical linkages that had to be perfectly adjusted to get everything working together. Having one of these outfits bind up on you, and totally refuse to work, as you approached a corner at triple digit speeds, carried with it some serious pucker factor. My BSA Goldstar trackbike had a Fontana brake that could be counted on to do this once in every ten outings.:eek:

oc

[RacinM3]

Oh, another thing, pretty much all the guys who race in the IOM TT would probably be racing cars if the sport were still that dangerous.

[Railbird]

I've been giving this topic some thought.

I really can't think of any of today's drivers that I would give an automatic pass to. Although I haven't read the book in question yet I've read quite bit about that era and can't imagine the hazzards being found acceptable to any of the smooth talkers employed at the upper levels today.

I agree with a little bit of what R'writer is saying, but just a little. The circumstances he descibes involve choices that Jimmy Murphy or Frank Lockhart never considered relevant to the task at hand.


From Depaolo to Shaw and Murphy to Mays these guys raced under conditions that they new could be better. Running deteriorating board tracks with spectators sticking their heads through the holes was in line with no one's safety standards of whatever day, but if the pay day beckoned race they did.

These heroes made their money and took their chances as they came.

A different breed indeed IMO.

[Ziggy]

I think it silly to even compare anyone. Granted, alot of ink has been slung in the Clark vs. Senna debate. There are a multitude of scenario's that look good on paper but time and era's dont work that way.

Only one thing rings true throughout time

DESIRE, for without the need to prove one's self on the track, no amount of talent in the world is going to put a guy on a track. They have to try...

Autoracing, the most difficult sport

It's what makes it so neat

Ziggy

[RaceChic]

Greg Moore. :(

[RaceGrrl]

Originally posted by Ziggy
DESIRE, for without the need to prove one's self on the track, no amount of talent in the world is going to put a guy on a track. They have to try...


Good point, Ziggy. That is why Zanardi is the only person on my list. I don't know enough about driver history to make a list. All I know is that I saw him prove something to himself by getting back into the car in Germany.

[FTG]

I think they'd all go out there and give it a try. If the money was good, they wouldn't stop.

They were all racing without HANS devices a few years ago. Somebody else's basal skull fracture didn't get them to hang up the driving gloves.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by Ziggy
I think it silly to even compare anyone.

That’s pretty much my feeling. How can you judge how a person who lived in one era would act if magically sent back or forward into another. The desire aspect is the only common thread.

[Kate]

I saw an interview with Innes Ireland once in which he said candidly that everyone knew racing was dangerous, but if you said safety to the likes of Colin Chapman you'd find someone else in your car, so you just shut up and drove. Same with hockey players, although one could argue that there wasn't as much head trauma back before helmets, perhaps it was just not diagnosed.

Since Michael Schumacher has repeatedly used the words "Too dangerous" with respect to all forms of racing save the one he is in, I think he would not have raced professionally even in the 1980s. Not because he's a coward (necessarily) but because he seems to be naturally cautious.

[RichK]

Originally posted by Napoleon
The desire aspect is the only common thread.

That's what I've been wondering about. Michael Andretti openly admitted that he doesn't have the love of driving that his dad still does.

I just wonder if today's pro driver is different from yesteryear's pro driver.

Would Michael Schumacher be working on his own Formula Ford at an amateur race if he worked a regular job instead of racing cars as a profession?

[Ziggy]

Oh my yes Rich. Schumacher put out the effort, and still does. He makes it look so easy that we tend to forget he has been at the top of his profession for quite sometime. You bet your bottom dollar he worked his tail off to get where he is, and is still working to stay where he is at.

I dont care for the guy. I will however give him his due. You want to win in F1, you have to beat him. No easy feat. Seeing him coming into the picture in the closing laps of Monaco this weekend should tell you something. They kept talking about his "off weekend" and there he was, less than half a second in Kimi's rearview. Most guys would kill for "off weekends" like that! Like Jay Baker was saying on the Truth the other night, they should play the theme to jaws on the TV when Michael is coming from behind! Having read the Lauda books on what choas went on at Ferrari's, Michael should get some of the credit for helping turn this marque into the racing juggernaught that it is today. He had a big hand in it, a very big hand.

Ziggy

[JoeBob]

I can think of very few drivers at the top of the sport who were simply handed their position there. Just about all of them have put their lives on hold to get to where they are.

Tony Kanaan went to Italy, where he didn't speak the language, and lived in his team's shop. (He was actually locked in there at night. If he left after they locked up for the day he couldn't get back in until they opened the next morning.) That's dedication to the sport, and frankly those humble roots are why I don't fault him for taking a big paycheck to go racing with factory backing. He'd been working his whole life for that, and he earned it.

Look at a guy like Memo Gidley, who wrenched cars for one of the racing schools in order to get seat time for free. Then he travels from track to track on his own time, seat in tow trying to get himself a ride.

They're not the only two who have done stuff like that to go racing. I suspect that if they lived in a time where they didn't have helmets, they wouldn't think twice about getting into the car.

That isn't to say that if tommorrow somebody suggested they go out without a helmet, they'd do it. They know better than that.