Unintended Acceleration 2.0

[devilmaster]

If it was out of control for 20 minutes, why did it top out at 90 mph?

Something's off...

Nosing around, the rated top speed for a prius is apparently 106 mph... If one assumes it hasn't been kept completely up to shape and was carrying a few things, i guess it could top out at 90....

I do think its hilarious and a sign of our times that a guy can drive and make a phone call at the same time yet can't figure out how to take control of the situation, and perhaps try a few things (like stomp on the gas pedal) to try and stop the car yourself.

[indyfan31]

20 minutes at 90 MPH is 30 miles :rofl:

He drove 30 miles until a CHP officer got to him and told him to turn off the engine and try the emergency breake?

The real dangerous thing is that people don't really know how their car works.

Press and hold the ignition for 3 seconds....

Didn't Toyota (or someone else) already suggest putting the damn thing in neutral and letting the computer shut off the engine (or let it blow)?

[devilmaster]

Add another possible one on the other coast....

http://www.freep.com/article/20100309/BUSINESS0104/100309064/1319/Another-Prius-speeds-out-of-control-N.Y.-police-say

could this get as bad or worse than that old lancia beta rust flap?

[dando]

why did it top out at 90 mph?


Uh, perhaps becuz itz a Prius? Hell, I'm amazed it went that fast. :gomer: :saywhat:

-Kevin

[High Sided]

this is scary fast! :tony:

mzFK56epaHI

[SteveH]

If it was out of control for 20 minutes, why did it top out at 90 mph?

Something's off...

Throttle may have been stuck but not at full throttle.

[Methanolandbrats]

Those *****oxes are computers, not cars. They have massive software problems. It's possible you can't put it in neutral or shove it in reverse and blow it up because it won't let you. And that may be a random occurance which makes it even worse. They should all be fed to a shredder and the money refunded to the customers.

[Gnam]

Throttle may have been stuck but not at full throttle.

If the internet has taught me anything, it's that in the face of such reasonable answers, I have no choice but to harden my position and continue to defend my original unsupported thesis that I am right by expanding into personal insults. Because clearly anyone that disagrees with me is a baby seal clubbing racist. :gomer:

Now serving all major Toyota products:
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1328/us550rtrmp52.jpg

[SteveH]

:D

[oddlycalm]

Now serving all major Toyota products
Nice :thumbup: :laugh: I'd love to see some ad hoc signage go up on the truck ramps. :D

Gotta like the CHP talking the goober down from his 20 minute wild ride. :gomer: His first strategy is to burn up the brakes a little at a time (on the car he doesn't know how to operate) and his fallback strategy is phone somebody and start asking questions. You'd think he was trying to land a 747...:shakehead

Toyota aside, when did driving become an inalienable right for the terminally inept....? :irked:

oc

[KLang]

In an interview I saw last night the guy was asked if he tried to shift to neutral. The response was something like: 'NO I was too busy holding the steering wheel with both hands'. But he did have time to grab a cell phone and call 911. :shakehead

[Indy]

when did driving become an inalienable right for the terminally inept....?

Where have you been? :D

Besides, you got a problem with 'Muricans? :laugh:

[emjaya]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2886103/I-couldnt-stop-my-Toyota-killing-wife.html

:\

[Elmo T]

Toyota says no flaw found with safety electronics (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0819040820100308)


DETROIT, March 8 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp on Monday sought to discredit an outside study critical of its electronic safety systems and said it had found no flaw with its throttle controls.

The conclusions, which were announced at a news conference, marked an attempt by the automaker to reassure consumers it has safety issues under control as it works to win back sales seven weeks into a recall crisis that has tarnished its reputation.

Toyota called the event to discredit what it said were mistaken conclusions being drawn from a study of its accelerator controls by David Gilbert, an auto engineering expert at Southern Illinois University.

[oddlycalm]

Toyota says no flaw found with safety electronics
Good luck proving a negative in the court of public opinion when there are articles every day about another goober (or two) losing control of their Toyota.

Toyota created an unending nightmare for themselves when they tried the full court press to influence the government and thwart the recalls. Once that went public nothing they say will be seen as anything but spin and denial regardless of technical merit.

This has gotten to the point of critical mass where it's hard to see an end game that doesn't seriously damage Toyota. Combined with the sour economy it could be dire and it will impact their associated companies like massive auto component supplier JTEKT which also have extensive US operations as well.

When Audi was nearly run out of business it didn't cost anyone else much of anything. If Toyota has big problems the exact opposite will be true.

oc

[Sean Malone]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6293IC20100310?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+%28News+%2F +US+%2F+Top+News%29

:)

[Don Quixote]

The power of the press. See "Absence of Malice".

[trish]

How do you get from unintended acceleration to break failure?

[dando]

The power of the press. See "Absence of Malice".

Or All the President's Men.

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

How do you get from unintended acceleration to break failure?
$26,000 car + driver with 10 cent brain ?


oc

[Elmo T]

$26,000 car + driver with 10 cent brain ?


oc

Remember, this is the challenge:

http://www.offcamber.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=98

[High Sided]

Remember, this is the challenge:


my cousin has a picture or took it years ago from the passenger seat when his mom drove into a freshly poured section of neighborhood street. the pissed off construction workers WTF look comes to mind. :gomer:

[nrc]

Rx5t22l3vqc

[Michaelhatesfans]

Wow, I've never seen an emergency truck ramp that looked like a sweeper at Spa!:eek:




http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1328/us550rtrmp52.jpg

[Ankf00]

Wow, I've never seen an emergency truck ramp that looked like a sweeper at Spa!:eek:



need to come out to Tahoe more often :D

[coolhand]

Probe questions runaway Prius story

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100314/ap_on_bi_ge/us_runaway_prius
Sounds like BS

[nrc]

Probe questions runaway Prius story

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100314/ap_on_bi_ge/us_runaway_prius
Sounds like BS

Well duh. It's now progressed to the point where every idiot who runs into something with a Toyota is going to blame the manufacturer. Nobody ever wants to admit they're an idiot. Assuming that they're not just too idiotic to realize it. And of course ambulance chasers are standing by.

But it was Toyota's handling of the problem that started this snowball rolling so now they're stuck with the result.

[grungex]

A buddy of mine is a Toyota mechanic. He actually had one car come in with no fewer than THREE floor mats stacked on top of each other.

[oddlycalm]

Well duh. It's now progressed to the point where every idiot who runs into something with a Toyota is going to blame the manufacturer. Nobody ever wants to admit they're an idiot. Assuming that they're not just too idiotic to realize it. And of course ambulance chasers are standing by.

But it was Toyota's handling of the problem that started this snowball rolling so now they're stuck with the result.

Agreed, and it's hard to overstate how big a problem this is. I don't really see this one ending soon or ending well. As you point out, the flakes and idiots, with the help of the media, will keep this alive for a very long time and the lawyers will have them tied up in court forever. And that's just in the US, their problem is global.

Toyota is facing a non-reproducible intermittent problem of an unknown nature. Good luck finding it, resolving it, proving it's resolved and defending against it in court. :shakehead On top of that they've almost made it mandatory for government agencies to step on them hard for the way Toyota handled them on the front end.

I thought that GM's record of systematically killing themselves off from 56% market share and the most successful manufacturing company on the planet to bankruptcy within 40yrs was going to be an achievement that would go unchallenged in the auto business for a very long time but I see now that I may have been wrong.... :gomer:

oc

[NismoZ]

re: sweeper at Spa...Thats so the truck barrel rolls to a stop sooner...or it might hit the trees at the end of the ramp.:gomer:

[Ankf00]

the avg age breakdown for these toyota failures is funny

[nrc]

the avg age breakdown for these toyota failures is funny

Uuuh. Age of the driver? Age of the car? Age of the incident? Info?

[Don Quixote]

I have a feeling he is going to say that it is mostly senior citizens hitting the accelerator instead of the brake. :\

[NismoZ]

Yup...and this last guy was experiencing major economic problems and has a history of lawsuits seeking to recover damages. Gee, I wonder why he is now publicly and adamantly saying he will NOT sue Toyota over this near tragedy.:rolleyes: In addition to his age this one looks like he may not have had a very good plan in place either. Kinda hard to talk on a cell to 911 with both hands on the wheel while reaching down to dislodge a floormat and put it into neutral (when asked if he'd done that he said "No, I'm trying to control the car!" ) and shut the engine off while standing on the brakes. So, how did he stop? The engine just shut down when the cop pulled in front of him? Whew, what a lucky guy. Plenty of blame to go around, I'd say.

[Ankf00]

Uuuh. Age of the driver? Age of the car? Age of the incident? Info?

driver :D


Here is Ted Frank on the Toyota sudden acceleration problem.


The Los Angeles Times recently did a story detailing all of the NHTSA reports of Toyota “sudden acceleration” fatalities, and, though the Times did not mention it, the ages of the drivers involved were striking.

In the 24 cases where driver age was reported or readily inferred, the drivers included those of the ages 60, 61, 63, 66, 68, 71, 72, 72, 77, 79, 83, 85, 89—and I’m leaving out the son whose age wasn’t identified, but whose 94-year-old father died as a passenger.

These “electronic defects” apparently discriminate against the elderly, just as the sudden acceleration of Audis and GM autos did before them.
Statistical Addendum: A number of commentators are worried about selection effects (hat tip Don). Here is background information from FARS. In 2008 there were 50,186 drivers involved in a car accident with a fatality. Of these 8066 were 60 years of age or over. Thus in 2008 the probability that a driver in a car accident with a fatality was 60 years of age or over was 16%. Using the figures above the probability that a driver in a car accident involving sudden acceleration in a Toyota was about 54%. Of course, the sample size is very small.

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/03/the-mystery-of-sudden-acceleration.html

[nrc]

The key point is that whether there's a mechanical or electronic problem that may be to blame for some percentage of the problems, the brakes should still stop the car. As will turning it off, or putting it in neutral or park.

So aside from the "more likely to hit the wrong pedal" aspect with older drivers, there's also the "more likely to panic and not respond properly" if there's a real problem.

[Sean Malone]

So really, Toyota can end this whole mess by releasing a new owners manual instructing drivers of run away cars to apply the brakes, engage parking brake and place transmission in neutral.

or they could simply instruct their dealer network to give IQ tests. I can see the commercials now, "Toyota...for the smart people".

[grungex]

Evidently the black box in his car (ECU) shows that Sikes alternately applied the brake and accelerator 250 times during his little escapade... :rolleyes:

[RichK]

This one from AP News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100317/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_no_fix) is interesting:


John Moscicki, of Lake Oswego, Ore., told the AP his 2007 Camry accelerated on its own five times before he got the vehicle fixed under the floor mat recall last month.

On March 4, his repaired Camry took off from a standing stop on the freeway and accelerated to 50 mph before Moscicki managed to stop it by shifting into neutral, hitting the brake with his left foot and pulling back the gas pedal with his right.

"It just went to the floor like some other system had control of it," said Moscicki, who raced high-performance sports cars and previously owned a Porsche restoration business.

His Toyota dealer had the Camry for a week, and Toyota sent in a field engineer to examine the car without finding anything wrong. Moscicki said he had planned to give the vehicle to his college-age daughter but now intends to get rid of it. "I wouldn't let her anywhere near this car," he said.

I have yet to hear why simply applying the brakes is not stopping the cars.

[Gnam]

"It just went to the floor like some other system had control of it," said Moscicki, who raced high-performance sports cars and previously owned a Porsche restoration business.

I thought Christine was a 1958 Plymouth Fury. :p

[B3RACER1a]

I would like to know how an electronic pedal goes to the floor all by itself. Its a pedal assembly, 2 springs, and a sensor. No motors or anything attached.
Explain how that pedal "Just went to the floor" :irked:

I'm an engineer in automotive that basically problem solves various engine control system problems (not Toyota...LOL). Anyways, this Toyota thing is nuts. They might have a software glitch. One thing is for certain their redundancy built into the electronic throttle control isn't as solid as it should be.

The Southern Illinois prof's test exposed this, but many people misinterpreted what his test actually revealed. Many people (including many of my counterparts in my office) took his test results as the only way to cause the issue is rig something up like he did, and that wasn't the purpose. All he did was expose a failure mode that other manufactures can detect (sensor wires shorting in a wire harness), and it really is a good find. Wire harnesses are very tricky and messy in an automotive environment.

Not saying Toyota doesn't have some real issues going on. They handled it poorly, and now its snowballed on them.

And for the other runaway cars they cant reproduce...yeah I'm not surprised they can't reproduce them, even if they are legit runaways. Getting a piece of software into a failure mode isn't easy when you don't know what lead up to the failure to begin with. Think of how many times Windows goofs up, and just does it at what it seems are random times. There are reasons it happens, but its very very complex.

[nrc]

I was sceptical about how the pedal could actually go to the floor on it's own. I've tried to find a good exploded view of the pedal and sensor assembly but so far without luck. Specifically I wonder how the return spring attaches to the pedal. Looking at the assembly I could conceive of some spring attachment arrangements that could allow the pedal to be freed from the return spring and fall to the floor on it's own.

edit..
Ok, I found this diagram which shows that the return spring is behind the pedal lever and not around the axis of the pedal as I thought it might be from other diagrams.

http://www.tuneyfish.com/blog/cts-pedal-diagram.png

With this arrangement it's really hard to imagine the pedal going to the floor on its own. I suppose if the spring could collapse into itself and get bound up that could cause it not to return but it certainly wouldn't just drop to the floor.

[B3RACER1a]

With you there.

Every report I've read says they either found the pedal interference with the floor mats or the pedal in normal position (no interference and not stuck down) post crash or incident. That spring just doesn't fall out then fix itself. So, if what we read about his pedal just going in all by itself is actually what he reported, I think it is staged. But, the media finds a way to get quotes wrong so who knows if that is actually what he said.

Interesting things about that voltage graph:

That isn't Toyota's graph. Toyota has the 2 sensors with a voltage offset, but the same slope. Most manufacturers have an offset AND a different slope for both sensors. This scheme enables easier detection for a short in either the ECU or the wiring harness.

I'm all for having a separate ECU in the throttle control system who's sole purpose is to monitor the backup sensor's voltages in the pedal and throttle body.

The problem with most of these automobile systems is the same ECU that controls the throttle system is the same ECU that monitors for problems, and that is simply something that shouldn't be done. That just leaves the door wide for random hardware or software issues.

I'm all for a separate ECU who's sole purpose is to monitor both backup sensor's voltages, and compares them to the primary sensors. That in itself would allow for solid detection of random hardware faults in the main ECU and issue's in the harness/pedal/throttle body assemblies.

[RichK]

The problem with most of these automobile systems is the same ECU that controls the throttle system is the same ECU that monitors for problems, and that is simply something that shouldn't be done. That just leaves the door wide for random hardware or software issues.


Combine that with Toyota's own claim (http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota-prius-vehicle-throttle-155094.aspx) that:


Fact: The brake system on each Toyota model is capable of overpowering the driveline to stop the vehicle – even with the throttle in a wide-open condition. See Car and Driver's article at: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept for more information.

...and it sure seems like a software/electronics/electrical problem to me.

[nrc]

Runaway Toyotas of Doom Cloud Regulator's Minds...

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20100322/D9EJT39G1.html

HARRISON, N.Y. (AP) - Police who investigated the crash of a Toyota Prius in the New York suburbs said Monday they agreed with federal regulators that driver error caused it.

The investigation found that the driver, housekeeper Gloria Rosel, never braked before she crashed into a wall, Harrison police Capt. Anthony Marraccini said. She was not seriously injured.

"The vehicle accelerator in this case was depressed 100 percent at the time of collision, and there was absolutely no indication of any brake application," Marraccini said.

"She believes she depressed the brake, but that just simply isn't the case here," he said. There was no intent to deceive, Marraccini said, and Rosel won't be charged.

[Steve99]

Maybe this will take some heat off Toyota. :D

Manufacturing fault or user error?

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100325/capt.a77b949855f94af3b02b37788e39cfac-424eb05c78334a5badfaeb41edb80ddd-0.jpg?x=400&y=264&q=85&sig=iwMVtM8UJb8OtNFX4vHn5w--


A brand new silver Tata Nano, heralded as the world's cheapest car, stands in flames on the suburbs of Mumbai, India, Sunday, March 21, 2010. The car belonging to Satish Sawant, a software engineer, burst into flames as he was proudly driving it home from the showroom, draped with a celebratory garland of marigolds. Sawant managed to get his wife and five-year-old son out of the back seat before the smoke billowing from the rear engine turned into flames that engulfed the tiny car.
(AP Photo)

I don't know if the picture will works, so here is the link to Yahoo (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Most-Emailed-Photos/ss/1756/im:/100325/481/urn_publicid_ap_org424eb05c78334a5badfaeb41edb80dd d/).

[SteveH]

There's been a few of those.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/23/tata-orders-probe-into-nano-fire/

At least, it won't cost much to replace them. :gomer:

[Indy]

I am definitely using that celebratory garland of marigolds idea. :laugh:

[oddlycalm]

the avg age breakdown for these toyota failures is funny Even funnier in chart form...

statistical improbability (http://jalopnik.com/5493549/anyone-else-see-a-pattern-here)

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2010/03/toyota-sua-chart-3_1.png

[Elmo T]

Combining two of our favorite things, though they've left out the bacon -

U.S. auto safety regulators are turning to scientists from the NASA space and aeronautics agency for help analyzing Toyota electronic throttles to see if they are behind unintended acceleration, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said. (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62T0V620100330)

[Methanolandbrats]

Combining two of our favorite things, though they've left out the bacon -

U.S. auto safety regulators are turning to scientists from the NASA space and aeronautics agency for help analyzing Toyota electronic throttles to see if they are behind unintended acceleration, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said. (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62T0V620100330)

Those guys can't even sniff out a bad O-ring....

[Elmo T]

Those guys can't even sniff out a bad O-ring....

It wasn't finding the questionable "O" rings, it was mgt @ Morton Thiokol and NASA doing something about it.

NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175151)


The Thiokol engineers presented data about earlier low-temperature launches, including evidence of "blowby." To him and his colleagues, the message was clear: it was too cold to launch. At first, the Thiokol managers backed their engineers. They formally recommended that the launch be postponed.

The NASA officials on the line were perplexed. They were trying to establish the Space Shuttle as a regular and reliable means of conducting scientific and commercial missions in space. They had an ambitious launch schedule. Classrooms across the country were ready for the first science class taught from space. And in just a few days, during the State of the Union address, President Ronald Reagan was planning to mention Challenger's launch as a space program achievement.

NASA's Lawrence Mulloy reacted to the resistance this way: "My God, Thiokol. When do you want me to launch? Next April?" That turned the tide of the discussion. The Thiokol managers pressed their engineers to reverse themselves. When that failed, the managers simply overruled them, and submitted their own launch recommendation.

I'd be more concerned that NASA has been relegated to identifying supposed gremlins in a car. :saywhat:

[Methanolandbrats]

It wasn't finding the questionable "O" rings, it was mgt @ Morton Thiokol and NASA doing something about it.

NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175151)



I'd be more concerned that NASA has been relegated to identifying supposed gremlins in a car. :saywhat:

Ya I know, the result is the same.

[Indy]

Elmo T is correct. It is a classic case used to teach leadership in business schools. The fundamental problem was that NASA management gave in to political pressure rather than listening to what their engineers (and MT) were telling them. Bottom line, they knowingly decided to play craps with those lives rather than risk their own jobs.

[Ankf00]

Even funnier in chart form...

statistical improbability (http://jalopnik.com/5493549/anyone-else-see-a-pattern-here)

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2010/03/toyota-sua-chart-3_1.png

toyota drivers of my generation are safer drivers :D

[oddlycalm]

Elmo T is correct. It is a classic case used to teach leadership in business schools. The fundamental problem was that NASA management gave in to political pressure rather than listening to what their engineers (and MT) were telling them.
Same thing happened with the Hubble mirror at pre-Hughes era Perkin-Elmer. They knew the inch/metric conversion error that resulted in an out of spec mirror contour within a week of it happening but management kept going full speed ahead and sent it into space knowing the optics were bad. They knew they were going to lose their jobs by wanted the performance bonus. :saywhat:

oc

[nrc]

I missed this before, but Toyota "came clean" on Letterman a while back.

1WG8EpirCVQ

_9qe5074qos

Te3T60ryDYA

[Sean Malone]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/consumer-reports-dont-buy-the-lexus-gx-460-2010-04-13

Don't buy the Lexus GX-460 says Consumer Reports. :)

[Sean Malone]

Toyota Halts Lexus GX460 Sales After Rollover Warning

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/04/13/toyota-halts-lexus-gx-sales-rollover-warning/

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Indy]

For Pete's sake.

Regardless they should halt all sales of Lexi for being hideously overpriced.

[Don Quixote]

So are they saying that this car is unsafe because its computerized traction control doesn't compensate enough for bad driving? So that means every car produced prior to (what, 2000?) is unsafe and should be immediately taken off the road. What about the driver staying within his or her abilities? I think we all need a few more nannies to protect us from ourselves. I also propose that al bicycles be outlawed until effective anti-tip technology is installed. Am I overreacting? :gomer:

[grungex]

:thumbup:

[nrc]

Stability control becomes a requirement for 2012 vehicles. Soon they'll be a massive recall if someone so much as slides a tire. :(

[cameraman]

So what you are saying is I should just restore/maintain my '95 Outback forever...

I'm seriously considering doing exactly that.

[datachicane]

So what you are saying is I should just restore/maintain my '95 Outback forever...

I'm seriously considering doing exactly that.

:thumbup:
Me in my daily driver:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2Yptu8g36aI/SNnHInoHRAI/AAAAAAAAAPs/WbcOIsBBU-E/s800/aut00a.jpg

[Gnam]

Maybe Toyota's F1 team was designed as a firewall to keep useless employees occupied and separate from the real business. Now that the F1 team is gone, all those window lickers have been set loose. :p

[Don Quixote]

:thumbup:
Me in my daily driver:

Four on the floor?

[oddlycalm]

Stability control becomes a requirement for 2012 vehicles. Soon they'll be a massive recall if someone so much as slides a tire. :(
Right, and if you have a crossover or SUV with AWD and you don't remember to turn off the stability control you will become stuck the first time it snows....:gomer: Oh, and try explaining that to even above average drivers and then take a guess at how many will remember to do that when the snow arrives 8 months from now...:)

oc

[Ankf00]

:thumbup:
Me in my daily driver:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2Yptu8g36aI/SNnHInoHRAI/AAAAAAAAAPs/WbcOIsBBU-E/s800/aut00a.jpg

slick.

I want to find an old convertible for this CA weather.

[devilmaster]

Right, and if you have a crossover or SUV with AWD and you don't remember to turn off the stability control you will become stuck the first time it snows....:gomer: Oh, and try explaining that to even above average drivers and then take a guess at how many will remember to do that when the snow arrives 8 months from now...:)

oc

I guess for political expediency its better to do that then..... oh i don't know..... properly train people how to drive.

fy8LJx71_9o

[Don Quixote]

I guess for political expediency its better to do that then..... oh i don't know..... properly train people how to drive.


That was one of my favorite episodes! :thumbup: Those Finns learn how to drive before they can walk.

[cameraman]

I'd sure be nice if those weekend rally-esque racing meets existed here.
I don't really long to drive around a 3/8 mile bullring:shakehead

[devilmaster]

I'd sure be nice if those weekend rally-esque racing meets existed here.
I don't really long to drive around a 3/8 mile bullring:shakehead

They can be fun though.... I'm in the 13... ;)

X4RA3JUgVE0

[datachicane]

I'd sure be nice if those weekend rally-esque racing meets existed here.
I don't really long to drive around a 3/8 mile bullring:shakehead

You're near SLC, correct?
MMP has open autocross (among other things) on the 2nd Wed of each month...

[Napoleon]

Toyoda, meet Audi. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834604575364871534435744.html)

[oddlycalm]

Toyoda, meet Audi. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834604575364871534435744.html)

Now refer back to age chart. :laugh:


The results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyota and Lexus vehicles surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes


The findings are consistent with a 1989 government-sponsored study that blamed similar driver mistakes for a rash of sudden-acceleration reports involving Audi 5000 sedans.

oc

[Andrew Longman]

Why is this news now? The data was available months ago and I (and more than a few "experts") strongly suspected pedal confusion all along, especially after years of study came to that conclusion on the Audi