Dare Practice Crash Net Possible Fractured Arm, Leg

[Chief]

The opening practice for the Bombardier 500 has resumed after a crash involving Airton Dare at Texas Motor Speedway.



At 7:35 p.m. (EDT), Dare made contact with the outside retaining wall in Turn 4 with the right side of the No. 5 Conseco/A.J. Foyt Racing Panoz G Force/Toyota/Firestone. The car slid from Turn 4 into the grass portion of the infield between pit lane and the racetrack and was facing backward.

There was heavy damage to the right side of the car. Dare was helped from the car by Indy Racing League safety team members and transported via air to Parkland Hospital in Dallas.

2000 IRL IndyCarTM Series Rookie of the Year Dare is awake and alert and in stable condition, said Dr. Henry Bock, Indy Racing League medical services director. Dare will be evaluated for a possible fracture of his upper right arm and upper right leg. A further update will be provided when available. - from Indyracing.com

[cart7]

I can't remember a time in the last 10 - 20 years when there were this many injuries to this many drivers in such a short( 1 1/2 years) span of time. I pray this year for the drivers on these cookie cutter high-banked ovals. I hope this isn't the year of another big one. :shakehead

[RTKar]

How many races do they have left? The heck with car count, what about drivers?

[Hink]

Don't like seeing poeple get hurt but -

It looks like Shiggy's back!!!

[cart7]

My jaw dropped in one thread over there when a long time pain in the *ss poster there and at some other forums stated that:

not exact quote but real close

"we should be glad the drivers are just suffering broken backs that they can recover from. In the old days, these guys would have been killed. This is the price necessary for close contact OW oval racing and it's seems like a pretty good trade-off, no one's making them race."

Yikes :eek: That kind of thinking reminds me of the civil war where the tactics trailed the technology. Marching men in long lines in front of pretty accurate 55mm flying lead balls at close range.

[devilmaster]

Originally posted by some MORONIC EFFIN IDIOT quoted by cart7
This is the price necessary for close contact OW oval racing and it's seems like a pretty good trade-off, no one's making them race."



http://mysmilies.creativesell.net/contrib/ed/smileeek.gif

:flame: :mad: :flame:

This is the kind of STUPID S**** that should just follow wrestling.

Injurys are all right as long as the racing is side by side and exciting. :saywhat: I'm sure most posters here can think of (at least) one racer whom they liked that is no longer with us. This type of post, (and i've seen them before) is total horse***** garbage.

I understand that deaths and injurys can occur when you try to drive the limit of a car. I will never accept injurys and deaths though.

If that jacka$$ of a poster wants a blood sport, let me get an M16 rifle, and i'll give him a 5 second head start. See if he thinks that is acceptable so he can have fun. http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/blackeye/AR15firing.gif

F***ing G**-D*** Stupid people.

Ignorant Stupidity should be a capital crime sometimes.

Steve

[RaceGrrl]

Originally posted by cart7
My jaw dropped in one thread over there when a long time pain in the *ss poster there and at some other forums stated that: text deleted


WTF posted that? I'm assuming you meant someone at TF?

[pchall]

It's gotta be TF. The posts there often read like a parody site, but without the humor.

[RaceGrrl]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030606/capt.1054863700.irl_dare_injured_tms103.jpg

[devilmaster]

People know I don't like the earl.

But I will never make fun of a driver's injury no matter what racing he decides to do.

Hope you're ok, dare. Get well soon.

Steve

[doppelganger]

Injuries are acceptable? A necessary price? Makes for good racing? It is unbelievable what some people think. This series continues to sink to new lows. The people who are fans need to be ashamed.

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by cart7
My jaw dropped in one thread over there when a long time pain in the *ss poster there and at some other forums stated that:

not exact quote but real close

"we should be glad the drivers are just suffering broken backs that they can recover from. In the old days, these guys would have been killed. This is the price necessary for close contact OW oval racing and it's seems like a pretty good trade-off, no one's making them race."

Yikes :eek: That kind of thinking reminds me of the civil war where the tactics trailed the technology. Marching men in long lines in front of pretty accurate 55mm flying lead balls at close range.

Was that what Doc Austin deleted?

[Treeface]

For the mindless defenders.
(With apologies to Soundgarden).


I'm sittin' in a crapwagon
With smoke and fiber bits
And oil fires
Watch me disappear
What made it slow me down
Whacking a concrete wall
Another driver goes down the drain
Hard headed f--k you all
Just add it up to the hot rod death toll

[cart7]

originally posted by Racewriter
Was that what Doc Austin deleted?

Yep. The former Helmet Stogie himself. And to think I got a warning from admin on that one for challenging the idiot. Oh yeah, it's not what you say but how you say it. :rolleyes:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by cart7
Yep. The former Helmet Stogie himself. And to think I got a warning from admin on that one for challenging the idiot. Oh yeah, it's not what you say but how you say it. :rolleyes:

No surprise that its him. I know 7G normally doesn't discuss (publicly or privately) if or why someone has been banned from their forums, but I do remember them making an exception for him. Grade A scumbag.

[Railbird]

I'll admit to being a caveman, but the good Doc is too far out there to be believed IMO. No injuries are exceptable regardless of what happened to his old buddy Brian Redmann back in the seventies.

Having said that, stuff like this is more a product of those type tracks than anything else.


Damn shame for Airton, he's the only driver Foyt's employed for quite some time.

[Racewriter]

Isn't Doc/Sybil two days overdue for his latest tearful goodbye?:rolleyes:

[cart7]

originally posted by Racewriter
Isn't Doc/Sybil two days overdue for his latest tearful goodbye? :rolleyes:
With the new software, I noticed he was lurking there this evening. :D

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by SOG35
No surprise that its him. . . . Grade A scumbag.

Yep.

[Kate]

I can't figure out why anybody would deliberately risk his life in one of those cars, and I will keep Dare in my prayers -- I am also praying that Gil will retire before he has another accident this season. Motor Racing is Dangerous, but it doesn't have to be THAT dangerous.

[cart7]

originally posted by Railbird
Damn shame for Airton, he's the only driver Foyt's employed for quite some time.
Had a decent run in Lights. I thought he showed his best stuff the year he ran for the under-funded team Xtreme. One of the few "drivers" the irl had before Penske and the others showed up.

[FTG]

Originally posted by Railbird
Having said that, stuff like this is more a product of those type tracks than anything else.

But when you run open wheel cars on that type of track year after year after year, aren't you saying that these type of injuries are acceptable? And if you watch races on these tracks, aren't you saying that those injuries are acceptable in exchange for your enjoyment?

After all, if IRL fans like those tracks, the IRL is going to keep running on them and the injuries are going to continue.

(I think the IRL fan quoted above is just honest enough to say out loud what most IRL fans feel.)

[Turn7]

It is not just IRL fans. If you go to any race, the wrecks always get the most attention. I go to CART races and see people straining their neck to see all the "action". They may not openly cheer and revel as the wreck is occuring like some do in NASCAR but, everybody wants to see it and if they aren't in that corner, then they want to talk to somebody that was.

I will admit that if a wreck occurs in a race, I look if I can see it. Do I hope somebody is injured, HELL NO.

However, we all want to see it happen. A picture of the wreck was posted here so that we can look at it. Why? Because we all want to watch it.

[RaceGrrl]

Originally posted by Turn7
However, we all want to see it happen. A picture of the wreck was posted here so that we can look at it. Why? Because we all want to watch it.


How little you must think of CART fans to claim that we all want to watch it. I do not want to see accidents happen. Ever.

Do not include me in your generalization about race fans. I would be quite content to see accident free races with exciting passes.

I posted the picture as evidence of the continued failure of the IRL to correct safety problems, not for the prurient interest of people who only want to see accidents.

[pchall]

RaceGrrl nails it.

I don't want to see these accidents. After the fact they are of some interest because these accidents are injuring drivers and diminishing a form of motorsports I care about. This is not prurient interest but genuine concern. Every IRL fireball, air launch, and severe injury increases the likelihood that formula car racing on ovals will suffer an inglorious demise.

What amazes me is the level of callousness among IRL supporters at places like TF. Some of those posters think that the appalling number of concussions and broken vertebrae are acceptable level of injury as long as they get their fix of "side-by-side-by-side" racin'.

[Napoleon]

Ah, the Vision Version 9.2, injuries are all right.

[Turn7]

I think maybe I didn't say what I meant to say.

What I was trying to say is that I don't go to a race to see a wreck. If one happens in front of me, I don't close my eyes and turn the other way, I watch it. I enjoy seeing cars run at the edge but, don't want to see a wreck. 4's spin and subsequent backing down the backstretch was much better to see than any wall slap that he ever did. He was pushing the car to it's or his limits. That is why I go to the races. To see people and equipment push the envelope. Unfortunetly, not all can be spin and wins or like 4's. I wish they could.


Since you animately don't want to see the wreck, next time one is happening near you, look around and see what the other people in the stands are doing. I will bet you a million bucks that 99% will be watching the accident even if a pass was happening at the time in the background. Those people in the stand are CART fans.

[Spicoli]

Originally posted by pchall
RaceGrrl nails it.

I don't want to see these accidents. After the fact they are of some interest because these accidents are injuring drivers and diminishing a form of motorsports I care about. This is not prurient interest but genuine concern. Every IRL fireball, air launch, and severe injury increases the likelihood that formula car racing on ovals will suffer an inglorious demise.

What amazes me is the level of callousness among IRL supporters at places like TF. Some of those posters think that the appalling number of concussions and broken vertebrae are acceptable level of injury as long as they get their fix of "side-by-side-by-side" racin'.

I agree. While my "home forum" went down like a 10 dollar hooker last night, I perused a bunch of others - MSF, 7G, even Crackforum...and there was always one guy that tried to weasel in that wrecks were "an acceptable part of doing business in this type of racing..." crap. I don't get it. I remember when I didn't know much about racing - as a kid - and thought crashes were cool. Then I "growed up a little", and saw the actual permanent injuries, carnage, and number of lost great drivers crashes took. You all know the list of greats that are missing today. Maybe the lemmings don't get it yet.

What amazes me is that the Dark Side has not claimed a life yet. As someone posted earlier - what's it gonna take? Foyt EYE-VEE in a coma? Are certain drivers "acceptable injured"? What if, God forbid, something happens to their most cherished driver Sarah? They have come so close so many times. Or is it OK for a "furriner" to take a serious hit?

And for the life of me - WTF is Jacques Lazier getting in that backup for? Is he just that stupid?:saywhat:

[Warlock!]

Originally posted by Spicoli
And for the life of me - WTF is Jacques Lazier getting in that backup for? Is he just that stupid?:saywhat:
Dude... are you serious??? Hell YES he is... proved it time and time again ;)

I gotta agree w/ T7 about the wreck thing. I never wanna see wrecks in the races I watch. However, IF one happens, I wanna be able to see it... see what caused it, make a judgement on what happened, who was at fault, and so on. I want to see the wreck if it happens. However, I don't want to see wrecks happen.

I hope that makes sense, cause it sure as hell doesn't to me. :saywhat:

Warlock!

[Spicoli]

Originally posted by Warlock!
Dude... are you serious??? Hell YES he is... proved it time and time again ;)

Well, not being an avid "Jacques watcher" I'll take your word for it. His brother is an idiot, so I guess that chromosome (or lack therof) stuck in the family.

Question: Kara has always been kinda hot. Is she an idiot too?:confused:

[Hink]

I definitely agree with T7 and Warlock on this one.

If I'm in the stands when a wreck happens I watch it. That doesn't mean I enjoy a live snuff show or hope people get hurt. If they never happened people would be complaining about the underpowered cars that a grandma could drive, top speeds of 25 mph, etc.

[Ed_Severson]

A few points ...

"... there was always one guy that tried to weasel in that wrecks were "an acceptable part of doing business in this type of racing..." crap."

To be frank, accidents are an acceptable risk. If nobody ever crashes, nobody is trying hard enough. What is unacceptable is an accident resulting in severe injury because of poor design, low safety considerations, or both.

To be certain, nobody with any brains really enjoys seeing crashes, and I'm sure we all experience that momentary shortness of breath and churning stomach when we see one, at least until we see movement from the drivers involved. But to draw the line at "crashes are unacceptable" is far too Draconian to be practical. Crashes will happen, rules and design be damned. A sanctioning body's foremost responsibility is to reduce the risk to the driver to the best of their ability. This is where the 'Reckin' League fails miserably.

"What amazes me is that the Dark Side has not claimed a life yet."

Actually, they have had a competitor fatality -- Scott Brayton in 1996. It didn't occur in the current ****box spec era, but it did happen under the 'Reckin' League's watchful eye.

I think a few of you are blurring the line a little bit. We all know IRL fans are dummies -- there's no need to drag them through the mud on this one. The responsibility for the 'Reckin' League's miserable record of safety improvements cannot be shouldered by the fans.

[Spicoli]

I'm well aware of Brayton's death. I'm referring to this season, this chassis, this all oval series, these tracks.

My point is that there seems to be an ignorant acceptability of these crashes, and not much gets done. SAFER walls? OK.......

And some responsibilty goes on the fans. By buying tickets and supporting this "Vision", they are endorsing it. Face it, ovals have seen their prime. Alot of people only showed up to see a speed record broken, and we're way past those days.

As Pook said once: "Our drivers turn right, turn left, use their brakes, shift gears, and go up and down hills."

I dunno what their answer is, but following ChampCar is the answer for me. If I were king, we'd get rid of all the ovals.

[Ed_Severson]

"And some responsibilty goes on the fans. By buying tickets and supporting this "Vision", they are endorsing it."

Not to pick a fight, but do you realize that there is no distinction between this statement and charging that folks who bought tickets for the post-1999 Champ Car events at Fontana and Laguna Seca endorsed the deaths of Greg Moore and Gonzalo Rodriguez?

Why blame the fans? They're powerless to do anything about this issue. As I said before, the burden rests with the sanctioning body.

As far as your suggestion that ticket purchases endorse inaction on the IRL's part, there is precious little evidence to support such a statement. To the contrary, if there's one thing the IRL has succeeded in demonstrating these past eight years, it's that nobody making decisions of consequence gives a damn what the paying fans think.

This is simply incongruous. It is widely accepted as gospel around here, particularly because of the mountain of examples from the past, that the IRL fans have been left out in the cold because of the Speedway's total lack of concern for their views. Now you're asking us to accept that the fans have enormous leverage where safety is concerned, despite their helplessness on every other matter, just so we can wildly assign blame without any regard to responsibility.

It doesn't add up.

As I said before -- most of the IRL fans I've encountered have never been accused of possession of excessive brain power, but that isn't free license to accuse them of accessory to manslaughter, or worse.

[FRANKY]

The only troubling thing to me is that there is an underlying glee when injuries occur. I have no doubt when Junqueira was slowly pulled from his Milwaukee crash idiots somewhere were pointing out that fact. Thankfully he was OK. Many others quickly jump when bones are broken in IRL sleds. Their record isn't great, crapwagons were just that, but they are also running on ovals, no sand traps, no tire barriers, just concrete walls 100% of the time.

Politics + Injuries don't mix.

[devilmaster]

Originally posted by FRANKY
Their record isn't great, crapwagons were just that, but they are also running on ovals, no sand traps, no tire barriers, just concrete walls 100% of the time.

Politics + Injuries don't mix.

But the question then becomes, where is the line from injuries because they race all on ovals, to injuries because they race in unsafe cars all on ovals?

Thats the pseudo political side of it. And that imaginary (and BS opinion) line changes depending on who you talk to. Some people will say its because the cars are not properly designed for the confines of an oval. Some will say the opposite.

Just as someone designed the Pinto, and someone designed the firestone tire that went on Ford products, and someone designed the rear liftgate hatch for Chrysler minivans. Mistakes can happen. And still in this day and age, mistakes can be covered up.

That part is open to conjecture and debate. What shouldn't be debatable, is the lack of the sanctioning body, to ensure that there is no design flaw, no forseeable way of ensuring that their drivers, are as safe as they can be. With the noticable amount of injured drivers in the past 2 years, IMO, I find it highly questionable that the IRL has not done an investigation to ensure maximum safety. With the amount of people in the media and even in the forums, who have contacts in the industry, we should have heard something, if the IRL was doing anything.

That silence, speaks volumes.

Steve

[FRANKY]

Strangely I think NASCAR is the only series that does tests as a sanctioning body. If that doesn't beat all.

I have no idea if the IRL or CART tests on their own the safety of their equipment, but somewhere I read that the new specs had to pass certain tests, no doubt done by the manufacturer of the tub/chassis.

The lack of "investigation" bothers me less than if they they had taken no action. I think changes in the specs is clear and was made for safety rather than for cosmetic reasons.

[Hink]

F1 does crash tests.

[Dr. Corkski]

Originally posted by Spicoli
And some responsibilty goes on the fans. By buying tickets and supporting this "Vision", they are endorsing it. Face it, ovals have seen their prime. Alot of people only showed up to see a speed record broken, and we're way past those days.Are you talking about the five IRL fans that actually go to the track who probably have as little knowledge about the fundamental physics of the chassis as you do?


Originally posted by Spicoli
As Pook said once: "Our drivers turn right, turn left, use their brakes, shift gears, and go up and down hills."I have Mr. Lavin and Mr. Camathias do that without crashing or being light years off the pace.


Originally posted by Spicoli
I dunno what their answer is, but following ChampCar is the answer for me. If I were king, we'd get rid of all the ovals. Funny you should say that considering ovals provided the two best races of the season so far.