Detroit: back to the farm

[oddlycalm]

Hantz farms is planning on spending $10 million to develop a 5000 acre (7.8 square mile) farm in what is inner city Detroit. With only 900,000 people living in a space as big as Boston, San Francisco and Manhattan combined Detroit currently resembles a widely dispersed aggregation of villages than a city. Rural-like densities as low as 1-2 houses per square mile in many areas means that delivery of basic services such as water, sewer are insanely expensive and public transportation impossible.
Hantz Farms (http://www.hantzfarmsdetroit.com/introduction.html)

Urban prairie. If the thousands of empty derelict buildings were removed it would be even more striking. Bizarre.

oc

http://www.eyemaze.net/blog/uploaded_images/VacantLots_05-796175.jpg

[Gnam]

That is amazing. Is Detroit the largest American city to evaporate?

Not even RoboCop's Detroit was this bleak.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/144757/DetroitAerial.bmp

[oddlycalm]

That is amazing. Is Detroit the largest American city to evaporate?

Not even RoboCop's Detroit was this bleak.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/144757/DetroitAerial.bmp

No doubt the largest and the biggest boom to bust ratio. At it's zenith Detroit had massive wealth with the architecture and infrastructure that went with it. The real sobering part is the realization that instead of the tens of thousands of middle class jobs that once existed in that nearly 8 square miles of land will be replaced with 100+ low pay farm jobs. The obvious upside will be a important local food source, but that's quite a lopsided tradeoff.

You're exactly right about Robocop, not even the fevered brain of Paul Verhoeven imagined anything this bizarre when Robocop was made as recently as 1987. :gomer: Verhoeven imagined serious badasses and urban blight, not prairie, woods, farms, and deer with scattered villages.

oc

[opinionated ow]

No doubt the largest and the biggest boom to bust ratio. At it's zenith Detroit had massive wealth with the architecture and infrastructure that went with it. The real sobering part is the realization that instead of the tens of thousands of middle class jobs that once existed in that nearly 8 square miles of land will be replaced with 100+ low pay farm jobs. The obvious upside will be a important local food source, but that's quite a lopsided tradeoff.

A city that gave the world so much left to rot like this. :(

[Steve99]

That is amazing. Is Detroit the largest American city to evaporate?
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/144757/DetroitAerial.bmp

That's bizarre. Did they tear out that many houses, or did the neighborhood never get finished?

I'm not sure that turning an urban area back into farmland is a very efficient use of money.

[Methanolandbrats]

...I'm not sure that turning an urban area back into farmland is a very efficient use of money.

You're right. The military should use it as a bombing range instead of ****ing up perfectly good islands.

[Gnam]

That's bizarre. Did they tear out that many houses, or did the neighborhood never get finished?

I'm not sure that turning an urban area back into farmland is a very efficient use of money.

The area is around the intersection of 12th and Temple Streets, bounded by I-75 to the south and west, MLK Blvd to the North, and M-10 to the East.

I know nothing of Detroit, but the internet calls this area Briggs or North Corktown. Found a blog with some photos: http://www.detroitarmy.com/2008/03/briggs-neighborhood.html

Nice spot for a race track. ;)

[oddlycalm]

That's bizarre. Did they tear out that many houses, or did the neighborhood never get finished?
Detroit was a bustling city of nearly 2 million relatively recently and these neighborhoods were full of people and businesses. As people moved out many houses and buildings were leveled while many others remain derelict and empty. Bottom line is that more that half the land in the city is vacant and they can either let it grow scrub or plant it and see some benefit.

Some speculate that at some point availability of inexpensive building space and land might attract a new generation of urban homesteaders and young creatives, but the issues surrounding the expense of maintaining infrastructure and delivery of services would seem to complicate that.

oc

[Sean Malone]

Hasn't the IRL at Belle Isle helped things there?
















:)

[oddlycalm]

The area is around the intersection of 12th and Temple Streets, bounded by I-75 to the south and west, MLK Blvd to the North, and M-10 to the East.

I know nothing of Detroit, but the internet calls this area Briggs or North Corktown. Found a blog with some photos: http://www.detroitarmy.com/2008/03/briggs-neighborhood.html

Nice spot for a race track. ;)

You can use Google maps to see the same thing all over town. There's an area larger than a mile on a side off of Grand River just outside of the core downtown area where there isn't a single building standing, just the remnants of streets. Over by the Art Institute ever four or five blocks there is one house.

The scale is such there is plenty of room for a multiple Road America sized race tracks. Maybe we should be making a proposal. I'll call Peter Windsor now that he's free...

oc

[stroker]

I'll call Peter Windsor now that he's free...oc

Ouch...

[Sean Malone]

You can use Google maps to see the same thing all over town. There's an area larger than a mile on a side off of Grand River just outside of the core downtown area where there isn't a single building standing, just the remnants of streets. Over by the Art Institute ever four or five blocks there is one house.

The scale is such there is plenty of room for a multiple Road America sized race tracks. Maybe we should be making a proposal. I'll call Peter Windsor now that he's free...

oc

I just spent a few minutes on google maps and at first I thought it looked like a normal city until I kept zooming in. It quickly became apparent the place is a ghost town! :(

[Steve99]

I knew the city had a dwindling population, but I just figured the houses were standing there empty getting run down. Had no idea they were tearing them down and clearing out the lots. Who pays for that?

[Ankf00]

I hope they have a plan for replacing the soil b/c who would want to buy any produce from land full of paint chips

[Don Quixote]

Heck, I ate pounds of paint chips when I was growing up, and it didn't affect me. :gomer:

[Tifosi24]

I googled what I thought the name of this website was, but all I got was stupid X-Files stuff. But, several years ago, I went to a website that I think was Ghosts of Detroit, where a guy would just go around the city taking pictures of the cool, old, derelict buildings. It is really quite remarkable. Unless things change, future historians will write books about what caused the city to turn into a ghost town. I thought Milwaukee had a surplus of infrastructure for 1 million people, and now with 570,000, but infrastructure for 2 million with only 900,000 people left, speechless.

[oddlycalm]

I thought Milwaukee had a surplus of infrastructure for 1 million people, and now with 570,000, but infrastructure for 2 million with only 900,000 people left, speechless.

Detroit is only the most prominent example. Many US cities face similar futures. The jobs and half of the people are gone. The only questions is what to do with what remains. This is the first commercial farm on the drawing board but I expect it won't be the last.

There are also some phenomenal deals to be had on empty buildings for those with businesses that need inexpensive space. Some "young creatives" are taking advantage of that for their start-up businesses.

Certainly nothing I ever expected to see in my lifetime and the reactions from my 90yr old father are amusing even if I'm not able to repeat them here....:laugh:

oc

[Indy]

The medium sized cities of Indiana are losing a lot of population. Depressing places. They are sort of like mini-Detroits that lived and died with the auto industry.

[Michaelhatesfans]

It puts hard hit northwest lumber towns into perspective.

At least around here you're transitioning from forest to a small town where the general store and a restaurant might be closed - this is something else entirely. A row of antique shops isn't going to save Detroit.

[datachicane]

We've turned the pointy end of mercantilism towards ourselves, and we're surprised at the outcome?

That proves it, you really can sell anything with enough marketing.

[devilmaster]

But, several years ago, I went to a website that I think was Ghosts of Detroit, where a guy would just go around the city taking pictures of the cool, old, derelict buildings.

ruins of detroit... http://detroityes.com/home.htm

[Don Quixote]

ruins of detroit... http://detroityes.com/home.htm
wow. :(

[oddlycalm]

We've turned the pointy end of mercantilism towards ourselves, and we're surprised at the outcome?

That proves it, you really can sell anything with enough marketing.
Well, yes, there is that. :gomer: My current favorite fantasy is that the developing world will move billions of people to a middle class US living standard this century even though that would require (by most estimates) the physical resources of 5 earths to support it. :rolleyes: Good luck with that.

My short term my fascination is over whether anyone will come up with uses for the inexpensive buildings and land or if it will simply get plowed under or left as is. On one hand it seems like an almost irresistible resource for the young creative types that have contributed so much to Portland. On the other hand, I don't see much evidence of that happening and as others have pointed out there is no shortage of supply around the Great Lakes region.

Strange times we live in.

oc

[Elmo T]

My short term my fascination is over whether anyone will come up with uses for the inexpensive buildings and land or if it will simply get plowed under or left as is.

oc

I review and inspect new construction - both homes and commercial stuff - nearly every day. Though not as much as in the past few years. :rolleyes:

Most of what is built, especially residential stuff, is almost disposable. Materials, workmanship, maintenance by current owners - :shakehead

The really old stuff (around here that would be >125 years old) it usually pretty sound. I've seen houses built in the 1980's bulldozed - and I don't mean the ones I've seen burn down.

[SteveH]

Detroit homes sell for $1 amid mortgage and car industry crisis
One in five houses left empty as foreclosures mount and property prices drop by 80%


http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/02/detroit-homes-mortgage-foreclosures-80

Mentions farms coming to the city. Interesting article.

[Indy]

We've turned the pointy end of mercantilism towards ourselves, and we're surprised at the outcome?

:thumbup:

[oddlycalm]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/02/detroit-homes-mortgage-foreclosures-80

Mentions farms coming to the city. Interesting article.
Yep, good article. Many of the houses that remain have good bones, unlike the disposable crap built by slam out artists that Elmo describes. Seems logical that there will be people that want them given the low entry price.

oc

[cameraman]

Living in a house that was built in ~1886 I can very confidently state that the fine folks in the late 1800's were fully capable of committing truly deeply stupid construction tricks. And I can think of some weekend warrior home remodelers who deserve their own little circle of hell...

[TKGAngel]

And I can think of some weekend warrior home remodelers who deserve their own little circle of hell...

Like my family members who thought nothing of tying two or three electrical cords together with sandwich bag ties or cross wiring two separate flats so you never know when you flip a circuit breaker what you're going to get?

And the same family members who just left the rug down when staining a gorgeous hardwood floor, thereby leaving a 8'x10' unstained darkened rectangle in the middle of the room?

[oddlycalm]

Living in a house that was built in ~1886 I can very confidently state that the fine folks in the late 1800's were fully capable of committing truly deeply stupid construction tricks. And I can think of some weekend warrior home remodelers who deserve their own little circle of hell...
Absolutely, if I had all the money and time back that I've spent reversing bad original construction or idiotic do-it-yourself work on houses we've owned I'd have the price of a new Ferrari and then some. In the West it's common, almost expected, and we've had to completely rebuild more than one house from the roof down because we liked the location. Finding a house we liked in the city that didn't need $100K put into it prior to move in to correct all the idiocy took us over 6 months, and we still spent plenty.

You don't (didn't?) find that kind of thing as often in places like Detroit. This was one of the largest concentrations of wealth in the world and what got built was mostly first class. Many of those homes were grand homes built with the best materials and by the best people in the business. They had legions of skilled trades people as well as codes and inspections early on and while plumbing and electrical can be out of date it's not that often that they were dead wrong originally. That's what makes the fall even more dramatic. When I was there last around 10yrs ago I drove down some streets on the West Side like Granmont and Kendall and some of the grand home on big lots still exist. Some of the neighborhoods have survived somewhat like isolated villages, but many have no shopping or retail close by,

Same thing with the commercial buildings. One of the aspects about Detroit that is so tragic is that buildings that ranged from significant to great architecture were abandoned and either left to rot or razed and cleared.

oc

[SurfaceUnits]

More Ugly Housing Data
by Adam Brochert, Goldversuspaper.blogspot.com | March 19, 2010

The numbers in housing are becoming surreal. I urge anyone who is interested in the true state of the housing market to check out this report from Lender Processing Services, Inc. (their corporate website is here). The truth will set you free as they say, though you may not like what you see if you own a home or debt on a home. Some chilling graphics and data points reproduced without permission from this current report below with my comments scribbled on the graphics:

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/brochert/2010/0319.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it now the IRS' business as to whether or not i have medical insurance

[nrc]

I saw something somewhere (or maybe I'm making it up) that trends show that people are paying their credit cards before their before their mortgages. I wonder if this reflects that people are seeing that they can get away without paying longer on their mortgage or a genuine shift in values where people's "stuff" is now more important to them than their home.

[Ankf00]

Maybe I'm making this up myself, but I recall a couple of hedge fund prinicipals and couple of traders on my UT board stating that CC's were really hurting b/c people were passing on bills for everything in face of their mortgage (the underlying premise of the posts was the psychology of making right with one's debt on property vs. others, even if the property is underwater).

not that I have any idea where to get data for that sorta ****, not like I own my own fund outta Dallas , I just build bombs n stuff :gomer: speaking of, anyone in the market for some new surface to air missiles or fully automated mechanized armor? I freelance now:)

[Don Quixote]

Can you bring me the gun of Rambo?

[nrc]

Here's the story I made up ... err saw.


RISMEDIA, March 11, 2010—(MCT)—U.S. consumers are starting to look like a frugal, debt-fearing lot as they pay down billions of dollars in credit card obligations. But an alarming trend is emerging: A small but growing number of people are skipping mortgage payments in favor of paying their credit card bills.

In an unprecedented shift, for some consumers having a credit card in good standing appears to have taken priority over having a roof over one’s head, experts said.


http://rismedia.com/2010-03-10/more-consumers-pay-credit-card-skip-mortgage-payments/

[Michaelhatesfans]

Here's the story I made up ... err saw.



http://rismedia.com/2010-03-10/more-consumers-pay-credit-card-skip-mortgage-payments/

I don't get air miles when I pay my mortgage.

[oddlycalm]

Not surprising considering the massive number of folks upside down on their houses.

oc