"Old Times There Are Not Forgotten - A-Way Down South In Dixie!"

[Jag_Warrior]

Wake up yer first cusin, break out the pillow-cases with eyeholes and let's lite a cross. Sounds like some NASCAR fans are prepared to make a stand "aginst the grate yeller horde that's a tryin' ta steel there sport!" (Sorry, BiF... I did the best I could. :) )


NASCAR's Kooky Krazy Kids (http://insiderracingnews.com/dt060403.html)

Did she do Trent Lott proud or what? :gomer:

[DaveL]

Nice to see there's no xenophobia in NASCARland.

I'll guess Frau Thompson's next article will be about how awful it is that some boring milktoast guy from Wisconsin (that'd make him one 'them yankee boys for those fans who still aren't over the Civil War) is leading the points.

[Lizzerd]

The hard cores don't even want foreign fans.

In case you haven't seen it before, this is the story of RaceChic and Lizzerd. (http://www.racingpress.com/publish/article_65.shtml)

[Sean O'Gorman]

:shakehead

What an absolute f***ing pig. I hope that this isn't the prevailing attitude among NASCAR fans.

I guess no Americans killed any Japanese who had family in WWII. Apparently Germany didn't do anything bad in WWII, so we can let them in NASCAR. Even more so since the Intrepid is built in the 51st state of Canada, unlike them damn Camrys. I hate the attitude that white Americans are somehow more human than the rest of the world, and that is why this article disgusts me more than I can express with words. :flame:

[Jag_Warrior]

Lizzerd, was your letter published in Racer or AutoWeek... Racer, I think... last year, right? That was you and RaceChic? I didn't realize that! I'm really sorry to hear about that.

While you guys know that I'll make fun of just about anything, it's really sad when someone pays good money to go to a race or sporting event, and the good time is spoiled by a group of morons. I don't think NASCAR wants to be associated with these kinds of people - and I don't think they make up the majority (any longer). In fact, NASCAR does its very best to make-believe they don't exist at all (ignorance is bliss). Maybe because of its past history or whatever, NASCAR still seems to attract these sorts... I don't know why, but it does (IMO). There are troubled people everywhere, but for some reason, they seem to KNOW that they'll find those of their ilk at NASCAR races, if they can't find them anywhere else.

My prediction is that the number of rebel flags will dramatically rise when Yoda hits the track the first year. It may even be worse at the CTS races, but I don't know. But I expect the ugly side of NASCAR to be seen... for those who don't choose to turn their heads.

Really too bad. I know some very decent NASCAR fans. I know this sort of thing makes them feel bad. But really ignorant and stupid people are humorous... doncha think? Let's see, Daimler owns 51% of Dodge and Chrysler owns the other 49%... is that what she said??? Hey Ellie Mae, newsflash fer ya: Daimler owns 100% of Chrysler! It wasn't a merger, it was a BUYOUT. Maybe there is some sort of ownership breakdown within Chrysler that I'm not aware of, relating to Dodge... but the whole d@mn thing is German owned. I bet one uh them thar dang Gerries shot yer dear old grandpappy in the @ss while he was... er, "retreating." :laugh:

[Railbird]

Great to be a white American isn't it?


Just the thought that some bitch like that thinks she speaks for many of us is enough to make you puke.

[IlliniRacer]

I wonder what the people in Georgetown KY think about "them foreign cars"? Where are all of the Mercedes SUVs produced? Tuscalosa AL? Can't be right. That there Mercedes is a "foreign car." Personally, I know close to a dozen people who assemble "foreign cars" in Normal IL. What about my Dodge Caravan that was built in Windsor Ontario? Is that a foreign car?

[rocket]

WOW, obviously Denise Thompson is her pseudonym...her real name must be Mrs. Duke :shakehead

Here's some advice lady....stand in front of a mirror...lift up your hood, and take a look at a real life bigot that could do more damage to the sport than any manufacturer could.:flame:

[Lizzerd]

Originally posted by Jag_Warrior
Lizzerd, was your letter published in Racer or AutoWeek... Racer, I think... last year, right? That was you and RaceChic? I didn't realize that! I'm really sorry to hear about that.


It was Racer, in a shortened form, Bryan Herta on the cover. It was in the Indianacrapolis Star too, in an even shortened version. Believe it or not, somebody from Washington State who claimed to be a former member of a CART team replied to the Star and lambasted racing fans from the Midwest in general. It showed up Racing Press after the editor emailed me after he saw it when I first put it on 7G.

[chop456]

Just for giggles, Toyota should nickname their first Camry "General Sherman".

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by chop456
Just for giggles, Toyota should nickname their first Camry "General Sherman".

:rofl:

. . . and first run it at Atlanta.

[RTKar]

Originally posted by Napoleon
:rofl:

. . . and first run it at Atlanta.


...with nothing but minority drivers...or on the opposite end of the pole...Earnhardt, Jarrett, Gordon, Kenseth...either way, the reaction would be priceless.

[cartmanoz]

That is just a plain scary article. Are many NASCAR fans really like that? I wouldn't know living down here!

To use World War Two as an example for not letting Toyota in is just plain mystifying...

[Napoleon]

Chop 456, the more I think of your idea the better I like it. I can see the Toyota advertising copy that would accompany the launch of Toyota's WC effort.

"Come watch the General Sherman blaze a path of glory across the South."

"Watch the General Sherman tear up a track near you."

[RaceChic]

Originally posted by chop456
Just for giggles, Toyota should nickname their first Camry "General Sherman".

Giggles as in laughs, not the forum member, right? :)

[cart7]

I wonder where the outrage is for the racin back to tha yeller thing?

We very nearly got to watch DJ burn to death in that Nascab pizza oven yesterday. I wonder, if the safety crews had had to remove his body with a pair of BBQ tongs, it might have put this whole Toyota thing in perspective.

[RaceGrrl]

Pathetic, and unfortunately typical of many living in the South. Many years ago, when nrc and I lived in Florida, we would celebrate Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman's birthday just to piss off the rednecks who still flew the Confederate flag. :D

[TRDfan]

All the insanity the last couple weeks over Toyota and Bill Davis Racing, now this.....makes me want to go to work for Toyota Motorsports all the more.

[Turn7]

I don't agree with what the lady wrote in the article. However, I would rather Toyota not be allowed to join NASCAR.

I find it oddly amusing that the backwoods hilljacks with backwards ideas have prevailed in the American racing scene. Being from the South, I can tell you that anytime a southern tradition or entity makes it big and prevails over other things offered from other parts of the country, there is a swell of pride and support that comes about. It has more to do with the constant beating down that the South gets about the way we talk, the assumptions that others make and the general ideas the we are all ignorant and stupid simply because we live in the country, go to church and respect our elders than a civil rebellion that took place over 150 years ago.

Many people complain about NASCAR for the way things are done yet, the superior racing series are dwarfed by the attendance, purses, sponsorship and television ratings of these stupid people. Makes you wonder sometimes who is really on the stupid side.

NASCAR has beat the odds of becoming mainstream. Where was Toyota petitioning to join in the bad times of NASCAR? They didn't want a piece of the pie until it was baked and had won the first place ribbon at the state fair. The original mfg's that supported NASCAR should be outraged that outside interest can come along and enjoy the fruits of their investments. Plymouth, Dodge, Ford, Chevy, Buick, and Pontiac have supported NASCAR and been there through thick and thin.

Toyota being allowed in will only help TRAC get off the ground if you ask me. That is where the fans should be concerned. Open wheel racing peaked right before the split. Each headstrong believed that the fans would follow them. Ultimately, the fans did choose sides and stuck to the chosen side with more loyalty than the owners/officials would have ever imagined. Now look at what has happened.....NASCAR had better listen to its fans or they will be in the same boat as open wheel. The fans are the ultimate decision makers and will either make or break a series. Toyota will be gone from NASCAR if the ratings and attendance suffers from fans showing the displeasure of management decisions. The France's feel unbeatable, on top of the world, and invincible. They need to watch out before history repeats itself.

Anybody with an internet connection has a global voice and can spew out garbage. There is garbage such as in the article and then there is also garbage in this thread generalizing all people from the South based on ideas and perceptions gleaned from a vocal few. Don't be guilty of what gets you mad to begin with.

[JoeBob]

Somebody needs to point out to this guy that both the Chevy Monte Carlo and the Dodge Intrepid are assembled in Canada.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by Turn7
Where was Toyota petitioning to join in the bad times of NASCAR?

Come on, in fairness to Toyota NASCAR has long had a sign out front that read "Japanesse need not apply". Its only in the last 20 years since Honda's Marysville plant became the first Japanesse transplant (and actually its really only in the last 10 years has the trend really taken off) that the Japanesse car companies can "sell" themselves as American companies. It was my impression that "Yoda is not trying to get into NASCAR by getting the "foreigners need not apply" rule waived, but are trying to paint themselves as being American and therefor qualified to participate.

Added with edit, both the truck and the car Toyota is seeking to enter in NASCAR are produced in the US, making it little differant then Dodge.

http://www.autoindex.org/maker.plt?no=99

[Railbird]

Those Toyota plants put food on American's tables whether the crackers care to admit it or not.

My employer {GM) pisses a lot of profits away overseas.

There are few manufactures more global than FoMoCo

Chrysler should have an iron cross for an emblem.

To exclude Toyota because of the location of it's headquarters would be bigotry of the highest order.

Welome to the real world Nascar

[Treeface]

Plymouth, Dodge, Ford, Chevy, Buick, and Pontiac have supported NASCAR and been there through thick and thin.

My NASCAR history is not all that good but I believe Ford and Chrysler both dropped factory support for the series. It was all GM (late 70's early 80's??) for a while.

[Railbird]

All of the big three have been officially out of Nascar at one time or the other.

The late fifties saw a gentlemen's agreement keeping them all out.

Ford and Mopar slinked back in during the sixties while Chevy dealt the supposed "good stuff" under the table to Junior Johnson.

Chrysler left in a huff over the exclusion of the dual quad hemi which led to "The King" and Petty Enterprises doing some drag racing at one time. Ford has pulled out official support over the ohc 427 and threatened to leave numorous times over political and economic reasons.

None have supported Nascar in any manner other than to forward their own agendas, as it should be.

"Through thick and thin" is a dreamer's world.

[Turn7]

While they all haven't been there all of the time, the did support the series when it wasn't the best looking investment in the auto racing world.

You can not say that for Toyota.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by Turn7
You can not say that for Toyota.

I agree you can't, but thats because they were not allowed in (we will never know if they would have participated if they were not excluded). I don't know how you could hold it against them when they had no choice but to sit on the sidelines. Its only been in the last few years that they can enter American assembled cars made by a company incorporated in a US state.

[Turn7]

I still wouldn't care if NASCAR wouldn't allow Toyota in. It is no different than any other private organization limiting who's in and who isn't. I don't have a problem with the PGA saying no women at Augusta, the Boy Scouts saying no homosexual troop leaders, ect. They are private organizations operating the way they see fit. If you don't like the way they do things, don't participate or start an alternate group.

[pchall]

Originally posted by Railbird
Chrysler should have an iron cross for an emblem.


true colors showing?

[KobySon]

Originally posted by Turn7
It has more to do with the constant beating down that the South gets about the way we talk, the assumptions that others make and the general ideas the we are all ignorant and stupid simply because we live in the country, go to church and respect our elders than a civil rebellion that took place over 150 years ago.


I have nothing relevant to add to this conversation except that the civil war was fought between 1861 and 1865 which makes it less than 150 years ago.

;)

[Railbird]

true colors showing?


For those who might miss the point:


History of the Iron Cross (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron_cross/ironcrossmain.htm)

[doppelganger]

I don't know which is worse, that type of attitude or the fact that someone finds it worthy of publishing. It's no wonder the world's opinion of the US is at an all time low.

[pchall]

Originally posted by Railbird
true colors showing?


For those who might miss the point:


History of the Iron Cross (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron_cross/ironcrossmain.htm)

OMG. The tint of your thong is showing. Enjoy. ;)

[Railbird]

your favorite shade I suppose.

[pchall]

LOL

'bird is dancing on the point of this one.

[Lizzerd]

I sent a short message to the author of the article. In it, I said something about Latins in major league baseball, and Europeans in the NBA (both "American" sports).

Her vitriolic reply is not worth the bandwidth it would use. Contact me if you would like me to forward it to you, though.

[mapguy]

Originally posted by pchall
OMG. The tint of your thong is showing. Enjoy. ;)

Fer gawd sakes 'bird. At least I wear boxers...

[RaceGrrl]

Originally posted by mapguy
At least I wear boxers...

but no pants. . .

[IlliniRacer]

Originally posted by Lizzerd
I sent a short message to the author of the article. In it, I said something about Latins in major league baseball, and Europeans in the NBA (both "American" sports).

Her vitriolic reply is not worth the bandwidth it would use. Contact me if you would like me to forward it to you, though.

You got a reply? She hasn't bothered to respond to my questions about what an American car is or if the NASCAR fans that work for Mercedes in Tuscaloosa, Toyota workers in Georgetown KY or Nissan workers in Jackson, MS are "un-American." Of course, I also used the word xenophobia so I'm sure it may take her awhile to figure out what it means.

[Railbird]

'bird is dancing on the point of this one.

Just making my point on current and past foriegn involvements in the big three and thus Nascar pc.



Could you be so kind as to clarify your point?

[Turn7]

Are you sure you want him to show you his point after he has pictured you in a thong?
:eek: :laugh:

[pchall]

If past military history is sufficient reason to keep manufacturers out of NASCAR, then the Big Three should never have been forgiven for Sherman's March.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by Turn7
While they all haven't been there all of the time, the did support the series when it wasn't the best looking investment in the auto racing world.

You can not say that for Toyota.

They were in IMSA long after it was an attractive investment. Same with CART. And the IRL isn't exactly the best place to show off your company either.

Whether or not their presence has a positive effect on the series they participate in, however, is debatable.

[chop456]

Originally posted by SOG35
They were in IMSA long after it was an attractive investment.


They also stayed long after they had any strong competition. Had Honda been in the bigs and not running in Lights, I suspect their exit might have come sooner. And no customer cars like Nissan ran, either. How many wins in a row did Jones and Fangio have, anyway? Gurney had a great program, but seeing 5 years or so of Toyota vs. Nissan vs. Acura would have been great.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by chop456
They also stayed long after they had any strong competition.

Which exactly why they should be commended for sticking around. Toyota had no reason to run in GTP in '93, but did anyway, and IMSA needed every car they could get that season.

[chop456]

Originally posted by SOG35
Which exactly why they should be commended for sticking around. Toyota had no reason to run in GTP in '93, but did anyway, and IMSA needed every car they could get that season.

It couldn't be because they wanted to pad their record with another automatic championship, could it? Nissan won theirs against the big boys.

Let's not forget Toyota's auto show stunt, appearing to take credit for Cheep's 4 Honda-powered championships, either. Toyota's hardly a white knight.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by chop456
Nissan won theirs against the big boys.

Let's not forget Toyota's auto show stunt, appearing to take credit for Cheep's 4 Honda-powered championships, either. Toyota's hardly a white knight.

Toyota won one against the best too. I know Toyota isn't perfect, but I don't think that saying Toyota would have to be with NASCAR at its lower points to be in the series now is very accurate.

[DjDrOmusic]

I think I'll post a copy of that article at Woo Doggies just to see the reaction of the 4 Nascab fans. They are still all PO'd because that let that "damn foreiner Vasser in Busch" (yes they really said that!)

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by DjDrOmusic
I think I'll post a copy of that article at Woo Doggies just to see the reaction of the 4 Nascab fans. They are still all PO'd because that let that "damn foreiner Vasser in Busch" (yes they really said that!)

Then they really wouldn't want to see the e-mail I sent the author of that "article." :eek: :D

[RacinM3]

5 bucks says this woman assembles mirrors for X5's and Z4's as her day job and cashes a paycheck with a Roundel on it.....

[WickerBill]

Originally posted by pchall
If past military history is sufficient reason to keep manufacturers out of NASCAR, then the Big Three should never have been forgiven for Sherman's March.


Uh, methinks all Railbird is saying is that you might as well use an Iron Cross as a symbol for them, because they're distinctly German. Correct me if I'm wrong, 'bird.

[chop456]

They're NOT German. It was a merger of equals. My neighbor who works at the Daimler engine assembly plant told me so. He said that the "Daim" in Daimler stands for "Daimler" and the "Ler" stands for "Chrysler". ;)

Ever see a DCX annual report? Their BOD reads like the starting 10 for Bayern Munich. At least one beneficial result will be the availability of a VM Motori diesel engine in the Liberty and a true Mercedes CDI Turbodiesel in the Dodge *cough*Mercedes*cough* Sprinter.

[Railbird]

Ya Ya WB, but you know the old professor, he's just gotta lob a few over my simpleton head.


But, to pursue his General Sherman angle, one does have to wonder if the author of the article in question would warmly embrace that first entry from Peugeot.

[Jag_Warrior]

Originally posted by Turn7
I still wouldn't care if NASCAR wouldn't allow Toyota in. It is no different than any other private organization limiting who's in and who isn't. I don't have a problem with the PGA saying no women at Augusta, the Boy Scouts saying no homosexual troop leaders, ect. They are private organizations operating the way they see fit. If you don't like the way they do things, don't participate or start an alternate group.

I really don't care either, Turn7. But if NASCAR is prepared to take the racist stand that is inherent in this "lady's" writings, we'll get to see just why these companies participate... we'll get to see just how popular and solid NASCAR is. You seem to think GM, Ford and Chrysler have participated because they love the Frances and the wonderful, salt-of-the-earth Americans that NASCAR has traditionally attracted. And these nickel-sniffing, Johnny-come-lately Japanese... well, they're just out to trick some Americans into buying their cars. Have I misread your posts? I read each several times to make sure I had the "feeling" down.

I'd say Toyota is probably more patriotic (in Japan) than are any of the Big 3 American(German-American) car companies toward the U.S. and Americans. I'll tell you my friend, I'm seeing first-hand that these true-blue, apple pie eating "American" companies and upper execs don't mind kicking 'Muricans to the curb and outsourcing their jobs to foreign lands - and they don't mind taking healthy tax breaks and FAT bonuses as they do it. But ALL that matters to ANY of these companies is the profit... the bottomline. The Big 3 are struggling to maintain and grow marketshare in North America. If NASCAR wants to light a cross in Daytona each February (or express any of their other "rights"), and it costs any of the sponsors a percentage of sales... they'll be gone in a New York second. NASCAR has long struggled with covering up its redneck past... if this gets much play, this one person will have cost them quite a bit in that effort - and she's not alone. The silly thing is, many of the people expressing these "beliefs" own Japanese cars and buy foreign made products... go figure! :shakehead

And this talk about putting down Southerners... I am a Southerner too. And I've always resented the existence of people like this woman. Because of people like her, some look down on us and assume we're all vying for a part in "Deliverance". She has every right to her low-born, trailer-trash mentality. It's just a shame the welfare board bought her a computer and got her online.

I will drop Ellie Mae an e-mail when I get time. But all I really want to know is how she determined the ownership structure of Dodge being 51% owned by Daimler and 49% by Chrysler... when Daimler-Chrysler (German based, publicly owned company) is the parent company, Chrysler is a division of Daimler-Chrysler, and Dodge is just a brand within Chrysler. She's obviously a very deep thinker, so I'm sure she'll give me a fascinating (read: humorous) response.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by Jag_Warrior
I will drop Ellie Mae an e-mail when I get time. But all I really want to know is how she determined the ownership structure of Dodge being 51% owned by Daimler and 49% by Chrysler... when Daimler-Chrysler (German based, publicly owned company) is the parent company, Chrysler is a division of Daimler-Chrysler, and Dodge is just a brand within Chrysler. She's obviously a very deep thinker, so I'm sure she'll give me a fascinating (read: humorous) response.

It probably isn't even worth writing. I had written quite the letter, and all she focused on in her reply was the fact that I called her a racist scumbag. :shakehead

[Turn7]

I don't agree with what the lady wrote in the article.

That is the first thing that I said in this thread.

But if NASCAR is prepared to take the racist stand that is inherent in this "lady's" writings, we'll get to see just why these companies participate... we'll get to see just how popular and solid NASCAR is.

This would be true if this was published by NASCAR or a NASCAR official. It isn't, it is the ramblings of an idiot that may be in Brooklyn, NY, Tehran, Iran or Bumpkin, Georgia. It is published on a second tier fansite that isn't affliated with any reputable media organization or remotely identyfiable with NASCAR in any way.


I'll tell you my friend, I'm seeing first-hand that these true-blue, apple pie eating "American" companies and upper execs don't mind kicking 'Muricans to the curb and outsourcing their jobs to foreign lands - and they don't mind taking healthy tax breaks and FAT bonuses as they do it. But ALL that matters to ANY of these companies is the profit... the bottomline.

Execes in America are overpaid idiots. I will never understand why these guys get into the "club" but, they do. When the get there they only thing they are concearned with is themselves and the huge bonus they will get if they improve the stock price. With all of the baby boomers cashing out and retiring, it is harder than ever to keep the stock price stable even if the company is making exceptable profits. The American investor got spoiled on all of the fast cash and get quick chances of the early ninties and are having withdrawls now and the working man is suffering. I agree with what you said 100%.

[Ankf00]

Originally posted by RTKar
...with nothing but minority drivers...or on the opposite end of the pole...Earnhardt, Jarrett, Gordon, Kenseth...either way, the reaction would be priceless.
Narain for NASCAR! yea!!

[Napoleon]

The Wall Street Journal has an excellent Op/Ed piece today entitled "Sayonara, Good Ol' Nascar" which is an excellent take on Toyota coming to NASCAR. Sorry I can't link to it, but some choice out takes below (authored by Holman W. Jenkins Jr.)

. . . ..

Though nobody (or at least not many) would go so far as to suggest Nascar is fixing races . . .

. . . .

Forget about the jingoism of certain Nascar fans who see Toyota defiling a great American pastime.

. . . .

It’s no accident, therefore, that Toyota picked Texas and Indiana (home of the Indy 500) for factories to build its new Tundra pickup. Moving up through the Nascar ranks is another part of the plan to earn the company its “green card” (to use a Toyota executive’s words) in the eyes of heartland car shoppers.

. . . Toyota has a stated goal of increasing its U.S. Market share to 15% from 10% by 2010.

The company is not mucking around, aiming to field half a dozen teams in the Craftsman series next year. It’s also building what would be one of three full-scale “rolling-road wind tunnels” in the world, allowing complex tests that take account of air flow under a moving vehicle.

. . . .

. . . . Toyota, with its deep pockets and mission to overtake Chrysler-Dodge as No. 3 in the U.S. Market, could change all that, turning a still quaint and colorful Nascar into something more ruthlessly mercenary. And Honda and Nissan aren’t far behind.

[pchall]

Originally posted by Napoleon

. . . . Toyota, with its deep pockets and mission to overtake Chrysler-Dodge as No. 3 in the U.S. Market, could change all that, turning a still quaint and colorful Nascar into something more ruthlessly mercenary. And Honda and Nissan aren’t far behind. [/B]

Why do I think that the France Family Mafia deserves a Yakuza onslaught? ;)

[oddlycalm]

Originally posted by Railbird
Those Toyota plants put food on American's tables whether the crackers care to admit it or not.

My employer {GM) pisses a lot of profits away overseas.

There are few manufactures more global than FoMoCo

Chrysler should have an iron cross for an emblem.

To exclude Toyota because of the location of it's headquarters would be bigotry of the highest order.

Welome to the real world Nascar You're absolutely right 'bird. I think that one reason for the fuss is that Toyota plants in Kentucky and West Virginia are a better kept secret than Honda's operations in Marysville and Anna. As you point out, GM, Ford have always manufactured and assembled cars in the markets they sell in. Costs a lot to ship cars.

Globalization of the auto market may be best illustrated by the Mini. It's assembled in the UK plant of a German company (BMW), it's Pentagon engine is from Daimler-Chrysler Brazil, and the rest of it's content is from everwhere you can imagine. Anyone care to pin a nationality on the Mini...?

oc