AAPL vs. GOOG vs. MSFT

[pfc_m_drake]

Ctrl-v gets you a command prompt? Not "paste" as in copy and paste in just about every piece of software on the damned planet?No. What it means is that you can copy-and-paste INTO a command prompt window. Kind of like you can with VMware tools under Linux (if you're familiar with that).

Super happy for ctrl-v into command prompt.
Super happy for start menu fully back.

I'll probably skip over Win8 entirely and go straight to 10. Also may switch back to Windows Phone if somebody comes out with a good slider model in the next year or so.

[G.]

No. What it means is that you can copy-and-paste INTO a command prompt window. Kind of like you can with VMware tools under Linux (if you're familiar with that).

Super happy for ctrl-v into command prompt.
Super happy for start menu fully back.

I'll probably skip over Win8 entirely and go straight to 10. Also may switch back to Windows Phone if somebody comes out with a good slider model in the next year or so.

Would love a big phone screen with a slider keyboard. Wouldn't even care if it was iWare.

Edit: So, does this mean we are going to start hearing about the big security holes in Win8?

[cameraman]

No. What it means is that you can copy-and-paste INTO a command prompt window..

You mean like you can in the terminal on a Mac since , I don't know, forever…

And yes they have patched bash.

[WickerBill]

You mean like you can in the terminal on a Mac since , I don't know, forever…


Exactly.

[nrc]

Microsoft announced the next version of Windows today.

Some key points about the next version of the Windows desktop OS, which for no apparent or explained reason, is not Windows 9, but rather Windows 10.

9 isn't far enough from 8. It sounds like Windows 8 is now officially the new Vista.


· They have an OS X “Spaces” concept, which they are calling multiple desktops, but the press is calling “virtual desktops” – FANTASTIC, that name won’t cause any issues

Yeah, *nixs have had this for... 30 years? We call them Workspaces. If MS wants to call them "virtual desktops" then what are they calling what everyone else calls virtual desktops? Maybe they'd just rather not talk about it.

[cameraman]

I have to admit even though my Solaris systems and Mac systems have always had the multiple desktop feature I have never felt the need to use it. I tend to do one thing at a time or if it is some huge data processing thing I just let it have all the resources and use a different machine.

[WickerBill]

There is a rumor.... and I stress this is a rumor....


...that MS knows there are many applications still in use that search the OS to see if it is "Windows 95" or "Windows 98" or "Windows 98SE", and therefore, they search for "Windows 9*" (instead of doing what they SHOULD do, and use the Windows build number).

[Insomniac]

Exactly.

I hope you knew you can right-click in the Window and it will paste. I know it's not Ctrl+V, but it is paste at least.

[WickerBill]

Yep. I know. It is ridiculous that the dos-based no mouse havin command prompt required mouse input to paste until now.

[Insomniac]

Yep. I know. It is ridiculous that the dos-based no mouse havin command prompt required mouse input to paste until now.

In fairness, you can't select text without the mouse and have to use Enter to copy. So at least they made the whole operation kludgy. :D

[WickerBill]

WinTen is officially also the name of the new server OS (Windows Server 10).

For those with OCD / continuity hang-ups, since 1992:

Client:
Windows 3.1
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows 98SE
Windows 2000
Windows Millenium
Windows XP
Windows Vista
Windows 7
Windows 8
Windows 10

Server:
Windows for Workgroups
Windows NT 3.1
Windows 3.5x
Windows NT 4
Windows Server 2000
Windows Server 2003
Windows Server 2008
Windows Server 2012
Windows Server 10

I guess it isn't too bad. Better than Citrix, at least.

[datachicane]

Welp, sounds like it's finally time to give up Edlin.

http://www.fabulousfaces.com/lib/upload/lrs1485_1.jpg

[cameraman]

You should have switched over to MINED years ago...

[nrc]

Rough week for MSFT. First Ford dumps them from their info-tainment system and now Facespace dumps them from their search feature.

http://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-unfriends-microsofts-bing-search/
http://www.cnet.com/news/ford-sync-3-announced/

I don't know anything about the Facespace but Ford cockpits will be immediately improved by the lack of a Microsoft logo.

[indyfan31]

Rough week for MSFT. First Ford dumps them from their info-tainment system and now Facespace dumps them from their search feature.

http://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-unfriends-microsofts-bing-search/
http://www.cnet.com/news/ford-sync-3-announced/

I don't know anything about the Facespace but Ford cockpits will be immediately improved by the lack of a Microsoft logo.

Damn! Got the truck a year too early. :gomer:

[dando]

Rough week for MSFT. First Ford dumps them from their info-tainment system and now Facespace dumps them from their search feature.

http://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-unfriends-microsofts-bing-search/
http://www.cnet.com/news/ford-sync-3-announced/

I don't know anything about the Facespace but Ford cockpits will be immediately improved by the lack of a Microsoft logo.

Damn. That's harsh. Sync isn't bad. It does what it's designed to do, and I've never had a BSOD. :gomer: Crackberry? Will it even exist a year from now? :saywhat:

[chop456]

I can't wait until one panel controls every single function of the car so it can all break at the same time.

[dando]

I can't wait until one panel controls every single function of the car so it can all break at the same time.

Bimmer is not far away from that with the iDrive. That was a huge fuster cluck when they first rolled it out. :saywhat:

[nrc]

Also Tesla... at least it's two screens. The ergonomics of touch displays in cars are a mess. Mazda includes an i-drive like doodad but it's pretty tedious to use. The primary buttons and switches really need to be buttons and switches.

720

[cameraman]

One more reason to keep my fully analog 20 year old Subaru running.

[Tifosi24]

One more reason to keep my fully analog 20 year old Subaru running.

Nearly all analog in the 2003 Element and awesome. The only thing that is digital is the clock/radio display. The Mazda 5 we just got doesn't have a touchscreen, only a regular digital display, and it is the greatest thing ever. I just want to drive my dang car people.

[KLang]

Bimmer is not far away from that with the iDrive. That was a huge fuster cluck when they first rolled it out. :saywhat:

idrive improved quite a bit with the addition of manual navigation buttons. So far at least they have avoided touch screen and the AC and heat controls remain manual. Audi controls are much the same. Might be a German thing.

[gjc2]

idrive improved quite a bit with the addition of manual navigation buttons. So far at least they have avoided touch screen and the AC and heat controls remain manual. Audi controls are much the same. Might be a German thing.

I have the opportunity to drive a lot of different cars. In my opinion BMW's idrive is still the least user friendly. The systems used in the other German brands are much easier to deal with. By the way, the new GM system has a bit of a learning curve.

I often wonder if years from now when today’s cars are collectibles are people going to get excited about things like vintage BlueTooth, classic navigation, etc.

[KLang]

I have the opportunity to drive a lot of different cars. In my opinion BMW's idrive is still the least user friendly. The systems used in the other German brands are much easier to deal with. By the way, the new GM system has a bit of a learning curve.

I often wonder if years from now when today’s cars are collectibles are people going to get excited about things like vintage BlueTooth, classic navigation, etc.

I said improved, not great. ;)

I've got both a late model BMW and Audi and neither system is usable without the users manual at first. I imagine that is true of most systems. I am glad both of mine have avoided touch screens and retain manual controls for many functions. I hate getting a rental with a touch screen.

[WickerBill]

Oh Riiiichard.....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/31/alcatel_one_touch_buys_palm_trademarks/

[dando]

Oh Riiiichard.....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/31/alcatel_one_touch_buys_palm_trademarks/

AFAIK, nrc is still using a Handspring. Seemed like a good idea at the time... ;)

Side note, I saw an article line for a story on FB the other day. Apparently M$FT is developing a new browser for Windoze 10. Eh? :saywhat: :confused:

[WickerBill]

Yep. From the ground up new browser. Considering not even calling it Internet Explorer (which is a FANTASTIC idea - calling a completely new browser IE would be like Ford making a brand new kick-butt car and calling it a Pinto).

[nrc]

Oh Riiiichard.....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/31/alcatel_one_touch_buys_palm_trademarks/

Now see, you made me get my Palm Pre out and weep over it again. :irked:

Unfortunately I doubt that using the Palm name for brand recognition would include adopting any of the oddball stuff that made them different or better. Anyway, Android has finally added most of the features that were nice about WebOS even if they're clunky in a typical Android fashion. You can even find a few devices with wireless charging now.

<sigh>

[dando]

Suddenly nrc and WB feel young again... ;)

http://gizmodo.com/sony-walkman-reborn-again-as-a-1200-hi-res-audio-han-1677643981?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_faceboo k&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[SteveH]

Suddenly nrc and WB feel young again... ;)

http://gizmodo.com/sony-walkman-reborn-again-as-a-1200-hi-res-audio-han-1677643981?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_faceboo k&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


NK really did mess them up evidently.

[cameraman]

Suddenly nrc and WB feel young again... ;)

http://gizmodo.com/sony-walkman-reborn-again-as-a-1200-hi-res-audio-han-1677643981?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_faceboo k&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Or I could use an app called Max to convert FLAC files to Apple Lossless and listen to the same quality on my iPhone because it is all in the headphones at that point.:shakehead:

http://sbooth.org/Max/

[dando]

Apparently they upgraded to Zunes...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jtp7pGZLL4

:gomer: ;)

[nrc]

Or I could use an app called Max to convert FLAC files to Apple Lossless and listen to the same quality on my iPhone because it is all in the headphones at that point.:shakehead:

http://sbooth.org/Max/

Except that there's still a digital to analog converter between your audio file and your headphones. For audiophile music players it's all about the quality of the DAC. By all accounts the iPhone 5 has a pretty good DAC but it's probably still lacking compared to the audiophile DACs.

[chop456]

Just an update. Wow. Sorry for the formatting.

Apple could buy Microsoft and have enough left over to buy Wal-Mart. :laugh:

List of Large Caps in this Slideshow:
Large Cap Company Ticker Market Cap
($in billions)

Apple Inc AAPL 710.74
Exxon Mobil Corp. XOM 385.38
Google Inc GOOGL 367.40
Google Inc GOOG 365.20
Berkshire Hathaway Inc. BRK.A 360.20
Microsoft Corporation MSFT 349.48
Wells Fargo & Co. WFC 283.09
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. WMT 281.35
Johnson & Johnson JNJ 280.89
General Electric Co GE 248.24
Procter & Gamble Co. PG 230.60
JPMorgan Chase & Co JPM 218.53
Pfizer Inc PFE 215.17
Facebook, Inc. FB 210.50
Chevron Corporation CVX 208.29
Verizon Communications Inc VZ 205.45
Oracle Corp. ORCL 193.18
Coca-Cola Co (The) KO 185.72
Berkshire Hathaway Inc. BRK.B 182.29
AT&T Inc T 180.77[

[Insomniac]

Just an update. Wow. Sorry for the formatting.

Apple could buy Microsoft and have enough left over to buy Wal-Mart. :laugh:

List of Large Caps in this Slideshow:
Large Cap Company Ticker Market Cap
($in billions)

Apple Inc AAPL 710.74
Exxon Mobil Corp. XOM 385.38
Google Inc GOOGL 367.40
Google Inc GOOG 365.20
Berkshire Hathaway Inc. BRK.A 360.20
Microsoft Corporation MSFT 349.48
Wells Fargo & Co. WFC 283.09
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. WMT 281.35
Johnson & Johnson JNJ 280.89
General Electric Co GE 248.24
Procter & Gamble Co. PG 230.60
JPMorgan Chase & Co JPM 218.53
Pfizer Inc PFE 215.17
Facebook, Inc. FB 210.50
Chevron Corporation CVX 208.29
Verizon Communications Inc VZ 205.45
Oracle Corp. ORCL 193.18
Coca-Cola Co (The) KO 185.72
Berkshire Hathaway Inc. BRK.B 182.29
AT&T Inc T 180.77[

So Google has a higher combined Market Cap than Apple?

[cameraman]

The problem with having your stuff on the "cloud" is when the cloud breaks you be screwed. Apple's entire iTunes, app store, iBooks & iTunes Match infrastructure has gone tits up today. Yep Apple's entire internet commerce system is dead as a rock. Oops.

Annoying cuz now I can't play music in the lab:irked:

[dando]

The problem with having your stuff on the "cloud" is when the cloud breaks you be screwed. Apple's entire iTunes, app store, iBooks & iTunes Match infrastructure has gone tits up today. Yep Apple's entire internet commerce system is dead as a rock. Oops.

Annoying cuz now I can't play music in the lab:irked:

Serves you right. :gomer: :p And the term is toes up. ;)

[Insomniac]

Who's planning to get an Apple Watch (not an iWatch).

[nrc]

I never liked wearing watches. One of the best things about always carrying a phone is it includes a pocket watch.

[cameraman]

Who's planning to get an Apple Watch (not an iWatch).

Not me, I loathe watches.

[KLang]

Who's planning to get an Apple Watch (not an iWatch).

I have several nice watches I wear all the time. I don't get using a watch as an extension of my iPhone, the iPhone is in my shirt pocket.

[dando]

Some dumb **** enabler friend of mine...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OBHEQ26/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

:gomer:

[KLang]

The problem with having your stuff on the "cloud" is when the cloud breaks you be screwed. Apple's entire iTunes, app store, iBooks & iTunes Match infrastructure has gone tits up today. Yep Apple's entire internet commerce system is dead as a rock. Oops.

Annoying cuz now I can't play music in the lab:irked:

Looks like they got their DNS issues ironed out. Of course now everyone wants in at the same time.

[Insomniac]

The idea of a watch being obsolete is fascinating. I'm wondering if this is a stupid idea or Apple has a whole generation of people who are going to treat a watch like a cell phone (or maybe a tablet is a better corollary for replacement/upgrade interval).

[SteveH]

Back to the Future or something like that

754

[cameraman]

I think it will all come down to the apps. If it really becomes a bus pass, lift ticket, hotel room key, Starbucks card etc then I could see it taking off. But it will really have to prove its true real world usefulness if it is going to succeed.

As for that new MacBook, it is so far down on the spec sheets that I can't ever imagine getting one for myself as my MacBook Pro has cables hanging out of every available port. You don't need a mouse, I guess you don't use Excel...

Or Minecraft for that matter. (Ten year old son)
Actually it doesn't have the CPU or graphics card to run a modded Minecraft with or without a mouse.

[dando]

Ruh roh, GOOG....

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/643f49ec-e285-11e4-aa1d-00144feab7de.html#axzz3XKvWpLx2

[datachicane]

Meh. Wore one of these bad boys for years. Seiko developed them for the Japanese market, and since the software they'd developed was all in Kanji they made an SDK available for the rest of us. Nothing better than writing your own apps for your watch. The user community had everything from word processors to spreadsheets, scientific calculators, chord finders, astro maps, games, book readers, you name it.

http://www.forest.impress.co.jp/article/1998/10/15/ruputer.jpg

I am such a geek.

[dando]

Slightly off topic, but interesting since it affects my old stomping grounds...

http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/12/investing/verizon-buys-aol/index.html

[dando]

Windows 10 is the end of the road for Windows.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/05/11/windows-10-will-be-microsofts-last-version-of-windows

[WickerBill]

Windows 10 is the end of the road for Windows.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/05/11/windows-10-will-be-microsofts-last-version-of-windows

I was at that conference, and I can tell you that Windows 10 may be the last specific version *name* you hear, but there are huge plans for Windows. I can't describe how much different Microsoft is as a company than they were last year.

[cameraman]

It would be nice if all of the OS makers would quit coming out with new OSes and just fixed the myriad problems in the one we are using now. That should keep them busy for a decade.:irked:

[SteveH]

I was at that conference, and I can tell you that Windows 10 may be the last specific version *name* you hear, but there are huge plans for Windows. I can't describe how much different Microsoft is as a company than they were last year.

Read this article a few months ago. A total rebirth rather than just different.
http://www.wired.com/2015/01/microsoft-nadella

[dando]

I was at that conference, and I can tell you that Windows 10 may be the last specific version *name* you hear, but there are huge plans for Windows. I can't describe how much different Microsoft is as a company than they were last year.

No doubt that this in name only. Nadella has a vision for a new direction. Googlesque? Apple model? Are they going down the IBM path? Odd times. M$FT has always been a software company that dabbles in hardware (Zune, Surface, Xbox, Nokia, and now Band...), but they need to have an Apple type rebirth. Time will tell. Interesting times.

[WickerBill]

I can tell you if my reporting structure was Brad Anderson > Satya Nadella, I would run through a brick wall every day for them.

[dando]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/06/09/what-exactly-is-apple-music-anyway/28733905/

[SteveH]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/06/09/what-exactly-is-apple-music-anyway/28733905/


Ironically the embedded video in that article won't play on my iPad. You would think that I am in their target audience. :gomer:

[cameraman]

Ironically the embedded video in that article won't play on my iPad. You would think that I am in their target audience. :gomer:

It won't play on my computer either.:shakehead:

[indyfan31]

It won't play on my computer either.:shakehead:

Or mine. I'm thinking the problem is with USA Today's website.

[Insomniac]

Answer: It's a cash printing machine. Spotify the application gets worse and worse and they passed 20M premium subs. Apple Music probably can't be much worse. The engineer side of me knows that simple features like sorting/filtering by genre, release date, etc. is easy, but business side of me thinks there must be some reason the application gets worse while directing you to listen to popular music more and more.

[G.]

slight derail.


<snip> but business side of me thinks there must be some reason the application gets worse while directing you to listen to popular music more and more.

I'm wondering: Is Payola back?
Perhaps it's now legal to email a few bitcoins along with your latest release.

If we start hearing REO Speedwagon on the radio again, we'll know that the record companies figured out how to ftp kilos of cocaine. :gomer:

:tony:

[nrc]

Not legally but broadcasters have asked the FCC to permit payola.

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2015/03/fcc-payola-lanes-big-broadcasters-ask-fcc-for-payola-waiver.html

Streaming services are a racket to collect money from consumers and pay practically nothing to the artists. Artists are starting to pine for the days where at least if you were talented and got a record deal you could gain enough of a following to make decent living.

[Insomniac]

Streaming services are a racket to collect money from consumers and pay practically nothing to the artists. Artists are starting to pine for the days where at least if you were talented and got a record deal you could gain enough of a following to make decent living.

Has there been any analysis of money actually paid to artists today and say 25, 20, 15, 10 and 5 years ago? I'd be curious to see how much things have changed. Beyond Taylor Swift going off, Spotify still has a lot of content. She didn't start a revolution. Spotify has their side/spin: https://news.spotify.com/uk/2015/06/10/20-million-reasons-to-say-thanks/

They say they paid out $300M in 3 months. Quick math says that's on $600M of revenue from premium, not sure what they make on free advertising for the other. I'd venture a guess it's not better than premium as much as they encourage users to switch. So maybe somewhere around 40%?

[Napoleon]

Has there been any analysis of money actually paid to artists today and say 25, 20, 15, 10 and 5 years ago?

I would love to see it if there is.

One thing is the number of units being sold is massively down, so even if the payment amount per unit was the same on average an artist is going to be making less. That said, on this general subject I saw this a few months ago and I found it very interesting:


http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/?s=recording+industry

[WickerBill]

Are the numbers massively down because of streaming and piracy, or because of the quality of the music?

[nrc]

Has there been any analysis of money actually paid to artists today and say 25, 20, 15, 10 and 5 years ago? I'd be curious to see how much things have changed. Beyond Taylor Swift going off, Spotify still has a lot of content. She didn't start a revolution. Spotify has their side/spin: https://news.spotify.com/uk/2015/06/10/20-million-reasons-to-say-thanks/

They say they paid out $300M in 3 months. Quick math says that's on $600M of revenue from premium, not sure what they make on free advertising for the other. I'd venture a guess it's not better than premium as much as they encourage users to switch. So maybe somewhere around 40%?

Unfortunately there's no one study or statistic that can put the whole trend into perspective. Those who stand to benefit play an endless game of wack-a-mole with any point you care to make. Revenues from recorded media are dying because of piracy - well you need to offer legal downloads. Our digital media sales are not keeping up with the decline of physical media - well you need to offer streaming media. Our streaming media revenues are a fraction of what we made on digital sales - well you can always sell more T-shirts.

Part of the problem is that most artists are afraid to speak out about their shrinking share of the shrinking revenue because they don't want to alienate their fans and end up with their head on a spike next to Laars Ulrich. My trusted source on this is Dave Lowery of Camper Van Beethoven and Cracker. He has real credibility on multiple fronts - hippy freak musician, tech nerd, and music industry expert. His blog http://thetrichordist.com is full of observations on the topic of artists rights. Circa 2012 this was probably the best overview on the topic:

http://thetrichordist.com/2012/04/15/meet-the-new-boss-worse-than-the-old-boss-full-post/

Back then the issue was finding a working model for the artist in a digital download world where the labels have contracted and piracy continued unabated. Even though total recorded music revenue has stabilized somewhat the issue for artists now is that streaming services are killing digital purchase growth and percentage that goes to artists continues to shrink.

http://thetrichordist.com/2013/02/08/music-streaming-math-will-it-all-add-up/

You can surf the site as well as I can so I won't post a bunch more links from there. But all indications are that whatever the revenues are, a smaller and smaller portion of them are going to the average working musician. When the average guy stuck it to the man and killed the record industry they didn't just stick to the suits. They took that money along with a chunk that was going to the artists and they handed it to the Internet oligarchs and mobsters. An artist could tell Virgin records where to stick it if they wanted didn't want to sign a contract but they have no such option with YouTube. YouTube will just stop paying them and keep right on doing what they do.

http://zoekeating.tumblr.com/post/108898194009/what-should-i-do-about-youtube

[nrc]

Are the numbers massively down because of streaming and piracy, or because of the quality of the music?

But why has music quality declined? One of the precepts of the "destroy the record companies" religion was that artists would be free to do as they please. No longer under The Man's thumb, the cream would rise to the top, reap the rewards, and get a bigger cut of the cash. At least that's what those downloading music for free told me.

I suppose you could blame it on "these kids today" and their lousy taste in music and I'm sure that's part of it. But it's also a shift in the industry model and how music is made and consumed.

We didn't kill the part of the record companies that create the latest pop tarts and peddle them into ubiquity. We killed the part that went out and found new and creative artists, invested in them, and took risks on them. That has essentially disappeared because there's no pay-off for those risks now.

[Napoleon]

Are the numbers massively down because of streaming and piracy, or because of the quality of the music?


There is plenty of great music out there.

[WickerBill]

Well, I was asking the question because it will inevitably be asked of music companies when they complain.

To me, it seems like it's never been easier for a new band to gain at least somewhat of a following, because of digital media. On the other hand, the music giants' cutbacks means it's likely harder than ever for that same band to get signed to a major label.

Therefore, we end up with very good music not getting the push it needs because it isn't a slam dunk. It's been 23 years since Nirvana's "Nevermind" album came out, which was (and is) seen as a watershed moment in the history of rock and roll because it was an album that changed music appetites overnight. Hair bands, done. Vanilla Ice, gone. The big question is: would anyone sign and push Nirvana today? The current Top 40 is in a similar funk to 1991...

[SteveH]

Navy pays Microsoft $9 million a year for Windows XP
http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/26/technology/microsoft-windows-xp-navy-contract/index.html?iid=ob_homepage_deskrecommended_pool&iid=obnetwork


In a statement, the Navy said it has a plan in place to upgrade its systems to a newer version of Windows. It expects to complete its upgrades by July 12, 2016.
But there's a chance that it could take even longer. That's why the Navy's contract with Microsoft contains options to extend the deal through June 8, 2017. That would raise the amount the Navy will pay for Windows XP support to nearly $31 million.

[WickerBill]

Navy pays Microsoft $9 million a year for Windows XP
http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/26/technology/microsoft-windows-xp-navy-contract/index.html?iid=ob_homepage_deskrecommended_pool&iid=obnetwork

2016? Haha. Without divulging too much, I can truthfully say there will be Windows XP in the military for 8-10 years. The key is - if it has to stay - to isolate it. That's the current project in many government branches (not just the US, either).

The new "Windows as a Service" model (bleargh to the name; what they mean is a new version of Windows every 6-9 months) will make it very hard for large enterprise, much less government, to keep up. Windows consumption is being re-thought.

[indyfan31]

In the memo, Branch required all of its PCs to be upgraded to Windows XP by April 30, 2015

:rofl::laugh::rofl:

[pfc_m_drake]

The new "Windows as a Service" model (bleargh to the name; what they mean is a new version of Windows every 6-9 months) will make it very hard for large enterprise, much less government, to keep up. Windows consumption is being re-thought.That's simply not going to work in the Enterprise environment. Hell, I work at a small company (~250 people) and it wouldn't work *here*. Pretty much everybody I know operates on an 'upgrade only when I absolutely positively have to' schedule. Actually that's a lie - most everybody upgrades 1-2 years *after* they absolutely positively have to.

And I am by no means a Microsoft hater either - quite the opposite in fact.

[WickerBill]

End user computing organizations are going to have to have a massive re-think of how they operate. MS lifecycle has been a crutch, IMO. No other part of IT moves as slowly as the client org.

I suppose the key will be how long each 6 month version of Windows is supported. If they're still all on a massive 7 year support schedule (which seems unlikely, as MS would then have up to 14 OS versions on maintenance at once), then I guess the issue is not as big as I think it is.

[dando]

Interesting bedfellows:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/01/in-tests-yahoo-uses-google-to-power-search-results-and-ads/

[nrc]

I'm always amazed at how much companies are willing to spend to keep their desktop environment running like it was 1999 (cue Prince). But I also recognize how tough it is to make change in this area. Corporate politics and the CIO life cycle make it hard to make real changes in that area. In most companies if you don't run the full MS Office suite on fat desktops you'll have a cadre of troublemakers sewing discontent among the ranks. The fact that some of these malcontents are in middle management only helps to shorten the CIO life cycle.

I keep thinking this will change as people become more accustomed to a more mobile, web-based world. But outside of start-ups and very shoe string operations I haven't seen it.

[nrc]

Windows phone is essentially dead.

http://mashable.com/2015/07/08/windows-phone-dead/

[Insomniac]

MSFT really needs to support a better quality of performance when upgrading in place. IMO, when a new version of Windows is a service pack, that's when organizations will be able to keep up.

[pfc_m_drake]

I'm always amazed at how much companies are willing to spend to keep their desktop environment running like it was 1999 (cue Prince). But I also recognize how tough it is to make change in this area. Corporate politics and the CIO life cycle make it hard to make real changes in that area. In most companies if you don't run the full MS Office suite on fat desktops you'll have a cadre of troublemakers sewing discontent among the ranks. The fact that some of these malcontents are in middle management only helps to shorten the CIO life cycle.

I keep thinking this will change as people become more accustomed to a more mobile, web-based world. But outside of start-ups and very shoe string operations I haven't seen it.Sorry to resurrect this, but just want to add something from an angle that sometimes can get overlooked:

At my company we do some engineering design and analysis work for the large aircraft engine manufacturers. Well, in an environment like that when you're dealing with analysis validation, flight certification, etc. - it's not always practical to be in a constant upgrade mode. And when you do upgrade, it takes *extensive* validation and qualification before you move into "production". Case in point: Last week I know that we did an analysis using a particular software package that was six (6) versions behind the current 'milestone'. It was because the results from the old version were qualified, understood, and everybody was comfortable with them.

So I hear what you're saying, but the reality is that if we upgraded every 8 months or so, all we'd spend all of our time re-qualifying everything and never do any 'work'...we'd be out of business.

Granted that we're not 'average' users, but it takes all different types to make the world go around.

[pfc_m_drake]

Windows phone is essentially dead.

http://mashable.com/2015/07/08/windows-phone-dead/
One of MS's biggest mistakes in the mobile market was making Windows Phone 7 non-backward compatible with Windows Mobile 6.x
Another way to say that is that Windows Mobile 6.x was not made *forward* compatible with Windows Phone 7

This all happened when Android was just becoming 'mainstream'.

Coupled with this, of course, was the fact that the Android OS was provided to handset manufacturers for 'free' while MS charged for their mobile OS. So if you were a large phone manufacturer who had traditionally had a lot of Windows Mobile offerings (coughHTCcough) you had a choice between two competing MS handset OSes in the market that were not cross-compatible (that you had to *pay* for on top of that), or a free unified (and up and coming) OS in Android. Pretty easy choice in retrospect - it was all over before it started.

Too bad too, because my Touch Pro 2 with WM 6.5 was the best phone ever.

Obviously there's more to it than above - but there was certainly a confluence of missteps that should have been foreseen by the folks in Redmond.

[WickerBill]

And when you do upgrade, it takes *extensive* validation and qualification before you move into "production".


Case in point: Last week I know that we did an analysis using a particular software package that was six (6) versions behind the current 'milestone'. It was because the results from the old version were qualified, understood, and everybody was comfortable with them.



Background: I worked for a company that also required a validated image.

Your course of action will be defined by how long MS decides to support each "version".

That being said, it is time for your IT team to abstract those apps from the endpoint. App virtualization, XenApp, something.

[pfc_m_drake]

Background: I worked for a company that also required a validated image.

Your course of action will be defined by how long MS decides to support each "version".

That being said, it is time for your IT team to abstract those apps from the endpoint. App virtualization, XenApp, something.I understand.
In this case it was a pure customer driven requirement. And typically not that bad (this was exterme). Not worth VM for a one-off, but at the same time it would be pretty devastating to be on a new release level 2x per year.

[WickerBill]

It's going to be a very interesting ride for the client portion of enterprise IT over the next couple of years. The "good" news is Win7 is supported until 2020, which will give companies the Cubs excuse: "wait 'til next year."

[Insomniac]

It's going to be a very interesting ride for the client portion of enterprise IT over the next couple of years. The "good" news is Win7 is supported until 2020, which will give companies the Cubs excuse: "wait 'til next year."

How do you think the free Windows 10 upgrade for one year will factor in to the decision making?

[cameraman]

I have research equipment that has just barely been "upgraded" from XP to win 7 and now you are talking about win 10 :rolleyes:

Personally I am heartily sick of OS upgrades for no other purpose than keeping OS writers employed. There is barely anything of value in them and I am sick of having to constantly relearn new UI "improvements". The most function interface is the one I already know how to use.:flaming:

[WickerBill]

cameraman first: that's part of MS' selling point here. They're saying smaller, more frequent releases will be easier to digest because they'll "more or less" guarantee app compatibility for the majority of the upgrades. The key is the quotes there, naturally. And the fact it's Microsoft we're talking about.

pfc: I think really big enterprises will be able to get an extended free upgrade deal with MS to take the impetus off of a 2015/2016 upgrade cycle. SMB, however, would be wise to weigh the cost of a rapid upgrade vs the avoided cost of a free upgrade. Honestly... at $50 a user or whatever non-Software Assurance companies pay, it very well may not be worth trying to jam a massive upgrade project through in 12 months just to save a few bucks per desktop. That's the kind of decision facing IT right now: risk/reward.

[nrc]

So I hear what you're saying, but the reality is that if we upgraded every 8 months or so, all we'd spend all of our time re-qualifying everything and never do any 'work'...we'd be out of business.

Granted that we're not 'average' users, but it takes all different types to make the world go around.

Yes, I'm thinking more about the vast majority of what goes on in the average IT shop. But I guess I wasn't clear. What I mean when I talk about running like it's 1999 isn't retaining an old version of Windows from that time. I'm talking about running the overall infrastructure that way - with every application running natively on a Windows PC that has to undergo an endless series of patches and updates that are delivered the same way that they were in 1999.

The problem with a lot engineering applications is that they were moved from dedicated engineering workstations (usually UNIX based) where stability and long term support were the norm, to a Windows platform where stability and long term support are the exception. It seemed like a good idea at the time because of the outrageous costs involved with those workstations. But there are a lot of options for dealing with the problems that Windows has created in that environment that in many cases haven't been explored or exploited.

[SteveH]

Windows 10 updates to be automatic and mandatory for Home users (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/07/windows-10-updates-to-be-automatic-and-mandatory-for-home-users/)

[KLang]

Windows 10 updates to be automatic and mandatory for Home users (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/07/windows-10-updates-to-be-automatic-and-mandatory-for-home-users/)

Cool, that means when they inevitably push out a bum update the whole world goes down at once. :thumbup:

[G.]

So what's the quick pitch on Windows 10?

MS is pushing it out for free for 7&8 users. Is it wise to accept it for home use?

Are the security and updates really going to be free?



I'm a-scared to go down the Google hole and search for this info. ;) I'll likely find 12 fanboys and 13.71 million haters. I figure that the Offcamber IT Department has the scoop. :)

[Insomniac]

So what's the quick pitch on Windows 10?

MS is pushing it out for free for 7&8 users. Is it wise to accept it for home use?

Are the security and updates really going to be free?



I'm a-scared to go down the Google hole and search for this info. ;) I'll likely find 12 fanboys and 13.71 million haters. I figure that the Offcamber IT Department has the scoop. :)

On the second part, it is a legitimate OS upgrade. You'll get all updates/security patches for as long as MSFT supports the OS.

[nrc]

Step 1. Free upgrades to Windows 10 with ongoing patches and updates.

Step 2. ...

Step 3. Profit!


I think Microsoft recognizes that this is their last chance to stop the bleeding in their operating system share. They need to convert you to Windows 10 now in hopes that they don't lose you to an Android/Chrome/IOS device the next time you replace your laptop.

[Insomniac]

I think Microsoft recognizes that this is their last chance to stop the bleeding in their operating system share. They need to convert you to Windows 10 now in hopes that they don't lose you to an Android/Chrome/IOS device the next time you replace your laptop.

My perspective is a little different. While PC unit sales are falling and Mac sales are growing, the overall Windows market share hasn't moved nearly as much as the change in sales. We've hit a point with hardware that the advancements in performance are more for scale than for the typical user's performance. An Intel CPU from 3-4 years ago isn't significantly different in performance than one from today for single threaded work. I think Microsoft is trying to work a plan to have continual revenue as the life of PCs is getting longer and the first step is getting people onto the Windows 10 platform (especially off Windows 7).

[nrc]

But it's not just Windows PCs vs. Macs. It's the whole universe of devices that people are using instead of or in addition to their traditional PCs and laptops - smart phones, tablets, chromebooks, consoles, etc. The younger people are the less likely they are to feel the need to go to a traditional PC or laptop to perform a task.

Even if traditional PC sales don't continue to decline, Microsoft's dominant market share is in a segment that will see a smaller and smaller share of actual use going forward. They absolutely must convert that existing market share to a release that can give them leverage into those other devices. They're giving away these upgrades in an effort to accomplish that.

[KLang]

Microsoft posts largest ever quarterly loss: 3.2 Billion
http://www.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-reports-biggest-quarterly-loss-ever-1437509879?mod=e2tw

Apple announces earnings later today.

Edit: 10.7 billion for Apple.

[WickerBill]

They wrote off the royally stupid Nokia acquisition.

[TravelGal]

Keeee rap. I "reserved" my copy of Windows 10 just to stop the annoying requests to do so and now I read that it will download all on its lonesome next week and wait in the background until I "activate it." :cry: I don't want the first version. It'll be full of bugs. Keeeeeeerap.

[Kiwifan]

Keeee rap. I "reserved" my copy of Windows 10 just to stop the annoying requests to do so and now I read that it will download all on its lonesome next week and wait in the background until I "activate it." :cry: I don't want the first version. It'll be full of bugs. Keeeeeeerap.

I'm in the same boat and at the moment stuck in "two KB updates" NOT installing and requiring a Safe Mode restart. Something to do with MS and Intel says my friend Google. Sigh.

[WickerBill]

Keeee rap. I "reserved" my copy of Windows 10 just to stop the annoying requests to do so and now I read that it will download all on its lonesome next week and wait in the background until I "activate it." :cry: I don't want the first version. It'll be full of bugs. Keeeeeeerap.

It won't install until you say so.

[Insomniac]

I think their initial releases have been markedly better since they now open the preview to the public. I'd argue better than Apple the last couple of years as well. With that said, I think early adopter rules always apply. If you don't want to be the guinea pig, wait a bit to see what the masses experience.