Turkish Grand Prix

[trish]

I guess Webber won't be winning this one. :rofl:

[EDwardo]

Vettel giving the international hand signal for crazy was priceless.

[trish]

If Hamilton and Button take each other out this will be a classic.

[Cam]

Don't hit *****! :eek:

[trish]

Webber podiums. I wonder what he has to say.

[opinionated ow]

I guess Webber won't be winning this one. :rofl:

It's a pity it was Vettel who ended up out of the race. Webber was the one who tried to push him onto the grass. You can see in the video Seb tries to move when the grass gets too close. Webber could use some lessons in racing etiquette.

Did I ever mention that I think that Webber is a self gratificationist?

Edit: Does that guy ever show emotion? His disinterest is worse than that of Kimi...

[Cam]

It's a pity it was Vettel who ended up out of the race. Webber was the one who tried to push him onto the grass. You can see in the video Seb tries to move when the grass gets too close. Webber could use some lessons in racing etiquette.

Did I ever mention that I think that Webber is a self gratificationist?

Edit: Does that guy ever show emotion? His disinterest is worse than that of Kimi...

You are an idiot. :shakehead

[trish]

Maybe he'll unleash his emotions on Vettel if he hasn't been smart enough to leave the premises yet.

[Hard Driver]

My take... Sebastian makes an aggressive move, but that is OK. If you look at his onboard, he is an inch from the white line. Then as the corner comes, he "thinks" he has it and decides to move over. Sebastian definitely moves right just a bit and when he moves over those 6 inches, they touch.

Now Webber certainly gives him no room and races him like he was racing some other team for the championship in the final race of the season. But if you really say as far as racing, he was within his rights to race him hard.

So both teammates definitely did not race very gentlemanly with teammates. That was a way aggressive pass from Sebastian and that was a way aggressive defense from Mark. But if you really get down to who turned into who... it was Sebastian that turned into Webber. Webber forced the issue and Vettel needed to hold his line. Fault goes to Vettel.

[opinionated ow]

You are an idiot. :shakehead

That wouldn't be a little blind patriotism would it? :p

[Cam]

That wouldn't be a little blind patriotism would it? :p

Not at all. That was a BS move on the part of Vettel. But thats OK. It played into the hands my Macs.

[NismoZ]

Yep, the kid's fault. I think he MUST have been pointing those little circles at his own head! As Hobbs noted, it was "an interesting few meters.":D The McLaren pass/repass was even better. How it should and CAN be done. You know what they say about F-1, rubbin' is racin':)

[BarillaGirl]

Vettel giving the international hand signal for crazy was priceless.

At least he was pointing at himself when he did it. :rolleyes:

Reminded me of PT taking out Dario again and again. Get the TEAM to the last lap, or the last race, THEN feel free to be a selfish hot rodder.

Then I though Jens was going to take out Lewis. Then Petrov could clip Kubica, and Rosberg could finally blow those poison darts at Schumi. WTF.

[Fio1]

Weber is not the easiest driver to pass that's for sure, but he left just enough room for Vettel. Vettel turned in on him, expecting Weber to just give him the space. It's actually pretty ironic that McLaren showed everyone how it should be done. :rofl: Red Bull have the best car, but it is obvious that they are not as experienced as Ferrari and McLaren. They as a team will probably lose these titles...

[TrueBrit]

Webber = Wanker.

Known throughout F-1 as the only guy driving a 747 out there..

Vettel knew this and tried has luck anyway = wanker

Verdict? Just one of them racin' deals..

(Weber is still a grade-a wanker though)

[rosawendel]

As an aside, an observation: three days of speed coverage, and no They Might Be Giants.
I'm floored. Happily.

[Insomniac]

Yep, the kid's fault. I think he MUST have been pointing those little circles at his own head! As Hobbs noted, it was "an interesting few meters.":D The McLaren pass/repass was even better. How it should and CAN be done. You know what they say about F-1, rubbin' is racin':)

"How it should be done" implies that maybe Webber should've been a little more pragmatic. ;)

[Methanolandbrats]

Vettel to Ferrari, Fred back to sheep herding if this **** keeps up.

[cameraman]

Christian Horner is not impressed:


We speak before the race every weekend and the one request I have is for them to give each other respect and room. From the team point of view it's the worst possible thing that you can see. As we saw with Lewis and Jenson they fought hard and gave each other just enough room.

I'm annoyed that they both got themselves into that situation. One car was quicker than the other at that stage of the race, he got a run, he was squeezed to the left and wasn't given a lot of room but then moved early so, yes, they're both at fault. Should they have given each other more room? Yes.

[oddlycalm]

On the other hand this beats the hell out of team orders. ;) Imagine, four drivers that actually want to win the race. :eek:

I about fell out of my chair when Button first passed Schumi early in the race then tried on Hamilton near the end. Must have been something in the water that turned up his aggression dial.

oc

[emjaya]

I was waiting for Webber and Hamilton to trip over each other, although, when it came I wasn't surprised. Webber and Vettel tangling has been coming for over a year now.

Good result for Webber, both in the points and the mind game.

I don't see how McLaren can claim to have caught up to Red Bull. The only thing that kept them in the race (Red Bulls taking each other out aside) was the F-duct. When Red Bull sticks theirs on, what will McLaren have, nothing but a 14kph disadvantage though fast corners.

[opinionated ow]

Webber = Wanker.

Known throughout F-1 as the only guy driving a 747 out there..

Vettel knew this and tried has luck anyway = wanker

Verdict? Just one of them racin' deals..

(Weber is still a grade-a wanker though)

:):):):thumbup::thumbup:

[WickerBill]

So basically, the only people here who think Webber was in the wrong are anti-Webber people to begin with. Show some objectivity. It is the overtaking drivers' responsibility to make the pass. The pass was not completed. Was Webber somehow supposed to be compelled to assist Vettel in making the pass? Screw that.

Vettel had 20ish more laps to attempt a pass if he was so superior. The McLarens were already talking about conserving fuel, so Red Bull knew the pressure Hamilton was giving Vettel was somewhat false.

[Insomniac]

So basically, the only people here who think Webber was in the wrong are anti-Webber people to begin with. Show some objectivity. It is the overtaking drivers' responsibility to make the pass. The pass was not completed. Was Webber somehow supposed to be compelled to assist Vettel in making the pass? Screw that.

Vettel had 20ish more laps to attempt a pass if he was so superior. The McLarens were already talking about conserving fuel, so Red Bull knew the pressure Hamilton was giving Vettel was somewhat false.

I think Christian Horner put it best. It was a racing incident, but since they were teammates, they both should've been more pragmatic. The outcome was not shocking.

Now Vettel knows next time he should let Webber turn into him and punt him. ;)

[cameraman]

Ahh, no. I agree with Horner. They both screwed up but I'll split it 70% on Webber and 30% on Vettel. The pass wasn't complete but all squeezing Vettel did was crash them both out. Being "right" isn't of much use when you are sitting in a gravel trap.

The biggest thing to me is Vettel should have known that Webber drives like that. He is the last driver that I would expect to give someone room. Some times that is a good thing, other times it is pure wanker. Webber just drifts across to the wanker side a little too often. He has red mist issues.

[High Sided]

even the red bull boss puts the blame on webber. i understand his argument but i don't agree with him, the pass was not completed.
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-red-bull-boss-marko-blames-webber/

[WickerBill]

and Vettel doesn't? I'm an RBR guy -- I want them to win the title and constructors championship because they aren't McLaren or Ferrari -- but it seems if Vettel's been a little spoiled by being up front and has been having a bit of a four week tantrum because he can't outqualify his teammate.

I just can't see how you could possibly put 70% on Webber when he's the leader and isn't the one who turned into the other car. Plain and simple: if you can't pull off the pass and make the next turn, you can't make the pass. Nowhere to turn? Then you better back off and try again next lap and get a better jump.

Of course, that's just me, the guy who couldn't stand Paul Tracy because he had a similar entitlement complex to what Vettel showed yesterday and has been pouting about for four races.

[WickerBill]

even the red bull boss puts the blame on webber. i understand his argument but i don't agree with him, the pass was not completed.
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-red-bull-boss-marko-blames-webber/


Well that's because Vettel is younger, is under a longer-term contract, and so he's the team #1. He is being favored. He was so much fun to watch last year and at the beginning of this season... gah.

[Indy]

Webber carries most of the fault for that accident. However, Vettel should have put himself in a position to take Webber out in the event that Webber pulled his usual blocking. Instead, he left himself vulnerable.

[oddlycalm]

Well that's because Vettel is younger, is under a longer-term contract, and so he's the team #1.
Yep, no doubt it, Webber's speed this season is proving to be a bit of an inconvenience for the team. :laugh:

oc

[emjaya]

even the red bull boss puts the blame on webber. i understand his argument but i don't agree with him, the pass was not completed.
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-red-bull-boss-marko-blames-webber/


He says that Sebastian Vettel was under threat from behind from Lewis Hamilton, and thus needed to get past Webber.
“Vettel was under enormous pressure from Hamilton, he had to do something, otherwise Hamilton would overtake him,” said Marko.

So they tell Webber to turn down his motor to save fuel, even though they knew the McLarens were going to need to conserve fuel soon.

Then they give Vettel an extra lap at full power, but he is "under enormous pressure from Hamilton" even at full power, and they want him to pass Webber to get away from Hamilton. So where would that leave Webber.

Did Webber know Vettel was going a lap longer at full power?

First Marko says:

Marko denied that there was a German speaking/English speaking split in the camp.


Then he says:

“That’s not true. We are handling both drivers in the team the same way. But again, Vettel was under such a pressure, and if such a situation comes up, you have to look after the team.

So it's better for the team that Webber is under pressure than Vettel.

[Boatdesigner]

Anyone think the track surface had anything to do with it? There were a couple of corners that were pretty bumpy, don't know if this was one of them. It looked like SV's car got loose when they were side by side.

The Jenson/Lewis dust up was fun to watch and it seemed like they both thought it was fun, we'll see in the next race if they still race each other the same.

[Gnam]

Webber was so upset he couldn't talk during the driver interviews some 30 minutes later. Meanwhile Vettel was working the pit wall, the transporters, and the media telling his side of the story. And I thought Ferrari was the team that going to implode...wow.

Reminds me of Seabass vs. PT. :thumbup:

PS. Hamilton & Button are not more gentlemanly or mature, just luckier. Must be those pretty new earrings.

[BarillaGirl]

Webber was so upset he couldn't talk during the driver interviews some 30 minutes later. Meanwhile Vettel was working the pit wall, the transporters, and the media telling his side of the story. And I thought Ferrari was the team that going to implode...wow.

I was predicting that Webber would take the high road during the interviews. I think that's what he was trying to do until he was pressed and pressed and pressed and finally admitted he thought he could have won the race. Then there was nothing more to say.

I have watched the video of the "incident" so many times and just can't see how Webber moved or drifted or took the wrong line or did anything to be held accountable. I like both drivers and do think Vettel is the great young hope for the future, so I like to think I'm unbiased. But I just don't see anything except Vettel getting halfway past Webber and then banging right into the side of him.

Maybe Seb's "Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear" sticker fell off somewhere between Spain and Turkey? :confused:

[Rogue Leader]

Reading these posts I'm wondering how a lot of people here forgot one of the most basic rules of racing - "It is the responsibility of the PASSING driver to safely start, maintain, and complete the pass." All Webber did was hold his line into the turn, Seb was NOT much ahead of him and Webber would have had to brake early completely conceding the position which he didn't have to do when Seb was barely ahead of him. If you're passing someone don't just plan your turn in around assuming the other driver is gonna just back off when you assert your manhood.

In other news anyone know who that guy was that tried to physically attack Seb when he tried to walk into his trailer?

[NismoZ]

Just looked like a "reporter" to me who was demanding his "right to inform the public." Obviously Vettel was in no mood to inform. That team guy should have been a step closer to stop that kind of lunacy. Hell, it's ALL lunacy!

[Easy]

Helmut Marko is a bigger ******* than Chip Ganassi and Jack Roush combined. He dislikes most of the drivers he picks for the Red Bull Junior Team (Vettel being his crowning achievement though the contract rights had to be bought from BMW) so of course he hates Webber who wasn't anointed from Marko's throne in Salzburg.

[Rogue Leader]

Just looked like a "reporter" to me who was demanding his "right to inform the public." Obviously Vettel was in no mood to inform. That team guy should have been a step closer to stop that kind of lunacy. Hell, it's ALL lunacy!

The guy had no microphone or credentials or anything, he looked like just some random guy and he really looked like he was gonna take a swing at Vettel. I was surprised the Speed crew basically ignored it.

[oddlycalm]

The drivers didn't do anything that drivers haven't done before. Both could have made better decisions but they didn't and it's over. Noting can be gained by making it worse.

The thing that is appalling is the retched job the RB team management did by publicly taking sides and making comments that won't be soon forgotten. In doing so they have revealed more about themselves than was wise IMO. They have as much as told their competition "keep putting pressure on us and we will crack and self-destruct."

oc

[Steve99]

Anyone think the track surface had anything to do with it? There were a couple of corners that were pretty bumpy, don't know if this was one of them. It looked like SV's car got loose when they were side by side.
I also thought it looked like SV's car seem to lose rear grip and veer to the right. I thought it was due to all of the dust & "clag" on that side of the track.

[BarillaGirl]

The drivers didn't do anything that drivers haven't done before. Both could have made better decisions but they didn't and it's over. Noting can be gained by making it worse.

The thing that is appalling is the retched job the RB team management did by publicly taking sides and making comments that won't be soon forgotten. In doing so they have revealed more about themselves than was wise IMO. They have as much as told their competition "keep putting pressure on us and we will crack and self-destruct."

oc

I totally agree. That might be the most regrettable part of the incident for Red Bull in the long term.