North Korea and the Cheonan

[datachicane]

Interesting open letter to Hillary Clinton from the South Korean naval expert first assigned by the South Korean National Assembly to investigate the sinking.
Link (http://www.seoprise.com/board/view.php?table=seoprise_12&uid=154146)

There's other rumblings of dissent inside South Korea re: the involvement of the North as well. I'm not drawing any conclusions either way, although it's interesting that our domestic news sources would lead us to believe that there's a clear consensus that a PDRK torpedo was the culprit. The crew of the Cheonan is apparently still being held incommunicado.

Definitely not a fan of the PDRK, and they're certainly capable of what they're accused of here, but still...

[nrc]

I just don't think it's getting enough column inches for much examination of "alternate theories" outside of Korea. There's the oil leak consuming media attention at home and the Gaza snafu taking up the space that "everywhere else" gets.

[Gnam]

All kinds of BS out there:

American mines sank ship:
http://newamericamedia.org/2010/05/did-an-american-mine-sink-the-south-korean-ship.php

Ship ran aground:
http://www.alternet.org/world/147096/did_a_north_korean_torpedo_really_sink_that_south_ korean_military_vesselt_?page=entire

Some South Koreans will do or say anything to avoid war with North Korea, including blaming the US for sinking their ship. :shakehead

One reason it's not in the news, is it happened back in March and neither side has escalated the conflict since. If the media can't hype it, they just don't care.

Without the dead birds in the Gulf, there wouldn't be an oil spill story either.

[devilmaster]

from that first article....


A lateral-fired torpedo, in contrast, "holes" the target's hull, tilting the vessel in the classic war movie manner. The South Korean government displayed to the press the intact propeller shaft of a torpedo that supposedly struck the Cheonan. Since torpedoes travel between 40-50 knots per hour (which is faster than collision tests for cars), a drive shaft would crumble upon impacting the hull and its bearing and struts would be shattered or bent by the high-powered blast.

bzzzzzz. Wrong. Wire guided torpedos can be exploded underneath the keel, breaking her back just like a mine would. And in fact a wire guided torpedo could be sent with passive sonar, not active (aka the classic pinging) so the ship might not have had good warning that its coming.

[Gnam]

I wish the North Koreans would get into the whaling industry. They would take care of those 'Whale Wars' morons directly. :p

[datachicane]

Some South Koreans will do or say anything to avoid war with North Korea, including blaming the US for sinking their ship. :shakehead


Well, while there's undoubtedly some truth in that, it's a bit of a stretch with regard to some of the skeptics.

My point isn't that there aren't all sorts of plausible scenarios that could implicate the DPRK, but that the evidence would appear to fall far short of 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. That's in stark contrast to the story we read in domestic media, where the obstructionist Chinese are footdragging out of raw chutzpah. OTOH, that's almost certainly more accurate than what either the Chinese or PDRK citizens are reading :saywhat:

[nrc]

My point isn't that there aren't all sorts of plausible scenarios that could implicate the DPRK, but that the evidence would appear to fall far short of 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

Does it? I hadn't bothered to read the details previously but after reading the report the case seems pretty compelling.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/20_05_10jigreport.pdf

They found parts of the torpedo matching those that DPRK is known to use and sell. To disregard this report I think you're talking about an international conspiracy to fabricate evidence.


That's in stark contrast to the story we read in domestic media, where the obstructionist Chinese are footdragging out of raw chutzpah. OTOH, that's almost certainly more accurate than what either the Chinese or PDRK citizens are reading :saywhat:

I don't see much difference between coverage from the U.S. media and the rest of Western media on this story. I don't think any reasonable media person would read this report and those conspiracy theories and think that they merit serious consideration.

[Tifosi24]

Some South Koreans will do or say anything to avoid war with North Korea, including blaming the US for sinking their ship. :shakehead


I don't believe the conspiracy theories, but, according to my Korean co-worker, the prospect of up to two million civilians dying in one day if war started with North Korea would make anyone try to avoid conflict. The fact that historically neutral Sweden has said that North Korea likely sank the ship is enough for me to believe North Korea is behind it; however, my co-worker isn't completely convinced. He thinks it is sabre rattling by the South Korea government to win votes in the current election. Personally, I think it was the North using their regular MO of escalating tension to get concessions on the international level, but this time around, it didn't work as planned.

[Gnam]

One theory is that the attack was to build street cred for Kim Jong Il's youngest son, Kim Jong Un.
Now he's a combat vetran. :rolleyes::gomer:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ggzyxWnedamoObfd6kIvz8_UKqEAD9FV9RG00

[Gnam]

Personally, I think it was the North using their regular MO of escalating tension to get concessions on the international level, but this time around, it didn't work as planned.

Looks like they're about to get some international attention afterall.


The war games - which begin on Sunday - will involve the aircraft carrier USS George Washington, 20 other ships and submarines, 100 aircraft and 8,000 personnel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10748148

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8871/48449705koreansdmz464wa.gif

[SteveH]

North Korea Warns of Nuclear Response to Naval Exercises (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-23/north-korea-claims-innocence-over-sinking-of-south-s-ship-won-t-apologize.html)


:rolleyes: