Chicago handgun ban - struck down

[Gangrel]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/28/court-rules-for-gun-rights-strikes-down-chicago-handgun-ban/?hpt=T2

Regardless of which side of the issue you are on, this is big news in Chicago.

[TrueBrit]

Not the biggest gun fan in the world, but the current ban hasn't seem to have been much use judging by the number of murders that continue to occur..

[dando]

Not the biggest gun fan in the world, but the current ban hasn't seem to have been much use judging by the number of murders that continue to occur..

Windmill Guy sent me this last week:

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/06/toddler-among-14-shot-overnight-throughout-city.html


At least 40 people were shot over the weekend across Chicago, with eight of them slain, according to police logs.

The toll covers a period from 8:43 p.m. Friday--after violent storms hit the city--to 6:39 this morning.

On Sunday, Chicago Police Superintendent Jody Weis acknowledged a high number shootings over the weekend and attributed more than half of them to the work of gangs.

:eek: :shakehead

-Kevin

[cameraman]

That would cover half the year for the entire state of Utah:shakehead

[Don Quixote]

40 over a weekend is not even a record. The cops are losing the war in that fine city.

[TrueBrit]

That would cover half the year for the entire state of Utah:shakehead

That's because they're too busy viewing porn... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/02/online-porn-stats-that-wi_n_597900.html :D

[cameraman]

Main reason for that is there really is no other way to access porn in Utah. You can't buy it, cable systems can only provide their mildest channels. You would be have a hell of a time even finding a Playboy in Salt Lake.

[G.]

Main reason for that is there really is no other way to access porn in Utah. You can't buy it, cable systems can only provide their mildest channels. You would be have a hell of a time even finding a Playboy in Salt Lake.
That's kinda sad. We should put on a telethon or something. Help out a bit. :)


Anyway,the best part about the ban-ban, will be Richie's speachifyin' about it.

Should be some memorable quotes.

It won't make too much difference though. They'll just make it wicked hard and expensive to own a HG in Chicago. And spend all the taxpayer money defending lawsuits in the future.

[Ankf00]

so I'm rollin' down Rodeo w/ a shotgun...

[Gnam]

Shay with a gauge, and Vanilla with a nine...

[Gangrel]

What seems to get lost on any discussion about this ban in Chicago is that the gangs and thugs aren't coming by their guns legally. They are buying guns that are smuggled into the city through illegal means. All this ban ever really accomplished was taking away the ability for law-abiding citizens to own handguns.

Even with the ban lifted, it is not legal to carry a firearm in the state, so on the street, the thugs and gangs are still the ones packing. They might think twice before breaking and entering, though...

[Ankf00]

CA has open carry (although some assembly woman from SD is trying to have that overturned)

I really can roll down Rodeo with a shotgun, no schools, no churches w/in 1000 ft:D

[oddlycalm]

What seems to get lost on any discussion about this ban in Chicago is that the gangs and thugs aren't coming by their guns legally. They are buying guns that are smuggled into the city through illegal means.
Obviously they come from a variety of sources and there is no shortage. There are a handful of skeeseball FFL dealers that sell in volume to people they know are beards. There was an investigative series a few years back that discovered that guns from a couple legal dealers were responsible for a significant amount of crime in Chicago. Same thing everywhere.

When you look at the volume of guns flowing to the Mexican border states it's pretty clear that random smuggling and private gun show sales aren't enough to explain the massive quantities of of semi-autos that end up in the hands of creeps.

Not to point out the obvious this is all very profitable for the gun companies. They know which wholesalers their guns are going to and they are able to easily find out which dealers as well. A lot of money is being made on the misery of others and it's clear that enforcement by ATF seems nil. I've been involved with guns since I was a kid and I understand how the manufacturing a distribution works. What is going on is not random.

oc

[Ankf00]

When you look at the volume of guns flowing to the Mexican border states it's pretty clear that random smuggling and private gun show sales aren't enough to explain the massive quantities of of semi-autos that end up in the hands of creeps.
oc

the high percentage (something over 70%) of weapons w/o serial numbers (ie: chinese, russian, etc.) recovered by law enforcement over there show that the US and our readily available AR-15's are not the issue w/ their gun problems.

we have serial numbers.

[cameraman]

Utah is an open carry/concealed carry nirvana. You can pretty much do whatever the hell you want and several men's room toilets have died because of it. They drop their pants quickly and their modified hair trigger with the round in the chamber fires and kills the toilet bowl. I'm not not kidding.

You see you have to have a round in the chamber at all times because Utah is just that dangerous a place to live:saywhat::shakehead:flame:

[G.]

Utah is an open carry/concealed carry nirvana.

You see you have to have a round in the chamber at all times because Utah is just that dangerous a place to live:saywhat::shakehead:flame:

you might be coming to the wrong conclusion, or missing a connection somewhere...

Might not.

Anyway, the SCOTUS appears to have made the correct legal decision. And it isn't going to change much in Chicago, nor Oak Park. Well, maybe Oak Park.

[stroker]

Until they reverse U.S. v Miller (1939) it's all crap, anyway.

[Michaelhatesfans]

...several men's room toilets have died because of it. They drop their pants quickly and their modified hair trigger with the round in the chamber fires and kills the toilet bowl.

What I'd give to see the look on the face of the poor bastard in the next stall.:eek::rofl:

[G.]

What I'd give to see the look on the face of the poor bastard in the next stall.:eek::rofl:

he's in the right place. :eek:

[Opposite Lock]

What seems to get lost on any discussion about this ban in Chicago is that the gangs and thugs aren't coming by their guns legally. They are buying guns that are smuggled into the city through illegal means. All this ban ever really accomplished was taking away the ability for law-abiding citizens to own handguns.

Even with the ban lifted, it is not legal to carry a firearm in the state, so on the street, the thugs and gangs are still the ones packing. They might think twice before breaking and entering, though...

Bingo.



What I'd give to see the look on the face of the poor bastard in the next stall.:eek::rofl:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Larry_Craig_mugshot.jpg
:D



Obviously they come from a variety of sources and there is no shortage. There are a handful of skeeseball FFL dealers that sell in volume to people they know are beards. There was an investigative series a few years back that discovered that guns from a couple legal dealers were responsible for a significant amount of crime in Chicago. Same thing everywhere.

When you look at the volume of guns flowing to the Mexican border states it's pretty clear that random smuggling and private gun show sales aren't enough to explain the massive quantities of of semi-autos that end up in the hands of creeps.

Not to point out the obvious this is all very profitable for the gun companies. They know which wholesalers their guns are going to and they are able to easily find out which dealers as well. A lot of money is being made on the misery of others and it's clear that enforcement by ATF seems nil. I've been involved with guns since I was a kid and I understand how the manufacturing a distribution works. What is going on is not random.

oc

Normally I tend to agree with, or at least understand where your points are coming from, OC. But not sure where you're coming from here. :confused:

[chop456]

Not the biggest gun fan in the world, but the current ban hasn't seem to have been much use judging by the number of murders that continue to occur..

Oh, it's been extremely effective. Just ask Duh Mayor and he'll threaten to use a bayonet on your posterior to demonstrate the ban's effectiveness. :gomer:

How the third largest city in the country can be ostensibly happy to be represented by such a boob* boggles the mind. I regret that I was only able to vote against him in one election. Twice. ;)

* I'm looking at you too, Boston. :saywhat:

[Gangrel]

Obviously they come from a variety of sources and there is no shortage. There are a handful of skeeseball FFL dealers that sell in volume to people they know are beards. There was an investigative series a few years back that discovered that guns from a couple legal dealers were responsible for a significant amount of crime in Chicago. Same thing everywhere.


Not sure I saw the report you are talking of, but if they were LEGAL dealers and they were selling handguns, they couldn't have been inside the city limits or selling to anyone who lives within the city limits, as that would make them ILLEGAL. When I was living in the city, I went to a dealer in the north burbs once just doing some initial window shopping. First thing the guy behind the counter asked me was my address. Address is also printed on the FOID card, which any Illinois dealer has to ask to see before selling.

[G.]

Not sure I saw the report you are talking of, but if they were LEGAL dealers and they were selling handguns, they couldn't have been inside the city limits or selling to anyone who lives within the city limits, as that would make them ILLEGAL. When I was living in the city, I went to a dealer in the north burbs once just doing some initial window shopping. First thing the guy behind the counter asked me was my address. Address is also printed on the FOID card, which any Illinois dealer has to ask to see before selling.Bell's Guns in Franklin Park. Was a nice range. :shakehead


A study released last year reported that 738 guns sold by Bell's were used in crimes during a four year period.

They were shut down (TWICE!) for shoddy paperwork, but AFAIK all of their sales were "legal", they were apparently to stray buyers sometimes. I believe that this is a big part of the reason that you now have to affirm that you are not buying for someone else when you do your paperwork.

your strawman argument is invalid (http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=3621528)

A friend of mine bought her .44 magnum there. (Big Eastwood fan.)

[oddlycalm]

Normally I tend to agree with, or at least understand where your points are coming from, OC. But not sure where you're coming from here. :confused:
It's pretty clear to me that the manufacturers and wholesalers know which dealers are dirty. A lot of money is being made so people are turning a blind eye. There is no pressure on ATF to keep dealers honest.

We have a well regulated concealed carry law that has been a huge success with nearly none of the problems that the opposition predicted 15yrs into. Open carry without screening anyone on the other hand seems insane to me.

oc

[Gangrel]

It's pretty clear to me that the manufacturers and wholesalers know which dealers are dirty. A lot of money is being made so people are turning a blind eye. There is no pressure on ATF to keep dealers honest.

We have a well regulated concealed carry law that has been a huge success with nearly none of the problems that the opposition predicted 15yrs into. Open carry without screening anyone on the other hand seems insane to me.

oc

Fewer people seem to oppose open carry, presumably because everyone's cards are on the table. I tend to believe that concealed carry would generally be more effective, because the creeps can never tell who's packing and who isn't. As a martial arts and self defense instructor for many years, I can attest to the value of the element of surprise in self defense.

[oddlycalm]

I can attest to the value of the element of surprise in self defense.
Part of our concealed carry law is that you have to keep it concealed. Failure to do so can be charged as felony menacing. Scarring Aunt Tilly in the restaurant when out to dinner is not something folks here are interested in so you gots to keep it hidden. I mostly had my carry permit for motorcycle rides in rural/remote areas.

I grew up in Detroit and lived there during the riots in 1967 and I've lived in other cities with serious crime, yet the only places I've ever actually been shot at have been rural areas. It's happened three times with the first time in 1974 and the last in 1999. Young peckerwoods out to intimidate strangers where they thought nobody would be looking. :irked:

oc

[Ankf00]

carry permits > open carry

but when the tards wont grant you a CHL, have to go with what you can get

in more pertinent news, those of you in locales where such items are legal might be interested in the following:
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/cdnn/Special.jpg

[cameraman]

Meh, I get that in the paper every day.

This on the other does not appeal to me at all.

http://www.sgcblog.com/?p=317

It is limited to a range so I guess it doesn't matter but I have just seen so much of Utah that has been shot to hell by idiots and their guns. Nothing quite makes a back country hike like hearing automatic weapons fire coming from somewhere and aimed????

:flame:

I have nothing against guns, I have a lot against a significant proportion of gun owners.

[oddlycalm]

Nothing quite makes a back country hike like hearing automatic weapons fire coming from somewhere and aimed????

:flame:

I have nothing against guns, I have a lot against a significant proportion of gun owners.
Agreed on all points. The combination of guns, room temperature IQ's and boredom is not a good one.

oc

[nrc]

Meh, I get that in the paper every day.

This on the other does not appeal to me at all.

http://www.sgcblog.com/?p=317

It is limited to a range so I guess it doesn't matter but I have just seen so much of Utah that has been shot to hell by idiots and their guns. Nothing quite makes a back country hike like hearing automatic weapons fire coming from somewhere and aimed????

:flame:

I have nothing against guns, I have a lot against a significant proportion of gun owners.

Seems like renting a machine gun would be about the same kind of thing for a gun aficionado as a renting a racer for a track day would be for a car nut. Race cars are noisy and dangerous, too.

[RaceGrrl]

-KmAOtkKf00

[oddlycalm]

Seems like renting a machine gun would be about the same kind of thing for a gun aficionado as a renting a racer for a track day would be for a car nut. Race cars are noisy and dangerous, too. Yes and better they should be on a supervised range instead of out where people are hiking.

Most indoor ranges rent full automatic weapons but the cost of ammunition makes it expensive. It also tends to be a novelty that fades fast because there is no real skill involved. From what I've seen (around here) over the years most of the traffic is from non-shooters and tourists from countries where gun ownership is not allowed.

The big outdoor shoots with heavier pieces such as Browning .50's etc. also tend to attract more casual shooters. I've been once to the one down the valley at Saddle Butte outside Albany. It was a quick way to make $100 disappear. :)

oc

Edit: The Dillon would be a quick way to disappear $1000 worth of ammunition. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/ripper11/_MG_5661.jpg