Dallara it is

[dando]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85269



The IndyCar Series will undergo its biggest change in recent history, after it was announced that teams will be allowed to introduce their own aero kits to a new spec-Dallara chassis from 2012.

The new rules, unveiled today, will mean that although IndyCar will remain a single-chassis formula, entrants and constructors will be able to develop their own packages - bringing variety of equipment back to North America's top-tier of single-seater racing for the first time since 2005.

The IRL's seven-man ICONIC (Innovative, Competitive, Open-Wheel, New, Industry-Relevant, Cost-Effective) advisory panel, which included former FIA technical consultant Tony Purnell and Indy 500 winner Gil de Ferran, awarded the contract for the new chassis to Dallara as part of a low-cost package that it hopes will revitalise the series.

IRL chief Randy Bernard said: "Today is an exciting day. Today is a result of listening to all of you - your ideas, your passion, your input. We've listened. The decisions we've made were not easy. This decision is one of the most important decisions of the decade for the IndyCar Series and its future.

"It is a huge honour to know that in 18 months this car will be a reality."

-Kevin

[WickerBill]

I am shocked and stunned that the Franklin Ratliff rocket didn't win.

[Napoleon]

I would rather talk about bacon.

[chop456]

How many years to come up with that POS?

Just when you think they can't possibly suck any more, they outsuck themselves. Incredible.

[Methanolandbrats]

Have they decided on a POS lump to push it?

[Napoleon]

Just when you think they can't possibly suck any more, they outsuck themselves.

They are trying to achieve the suckularity.

[DagoFast]

Honda V6 turbo

[Elmo T]

I watched. It was painful.

Bad reality TV intro of board voting on their Verizon phones, allegedly this AM. :saywhat::rolleyes:

Base chassis with aftermarket bits that change things up. The shark fin was truly a shark fin. :rolleyes:

So, Audi can make a front wing and some aero bits, and ta-da..... Audi OW racer?:shakehead

[dando]

I watched. It was painful.


I hope you showered after watching. :gomer:

-Kevin

[Don Quixote]

Understatement of the day:

Just when you think they can't possibly suck any more, they outsuck themselves. Incredible.

Overstatement of the day:

IRL chief Randy Bernard said: "Today is an exciting day.

[Andrew Longman]

The jobs that will be created by the Italian firm's presence in the city has led to an agreement which will offer a $150,000 (£100,000) discount on the first 28 cars sold to teams based in the state of Indiana.

So it is also an uber gomer jobs program too? :rolleyes:

Capping the price of various aero packages probably makes sense, but it will quickly devolve to the one package you have to have to win.

[Andrew Longman]

I see TF seems to be in overload/meltdown

[Napoleon]

The jobs that will be created by the Italian firm's presence in the city has led to an agreement which will offer a $150,000 (£100,000) discount on the first 28 cars sold to teams based in the state of Indiana.

Did I miss Indiana deciding the Sterling was an acceptable currency within its boarders?

[eiregosod]

i didnt see the announcement, were there bucking bulls in front of the podium?

[Elmo T]

From Twitter feed thing:


Strong stuff from Eddie Gossage, who was on the #indycar committee that chose chassis: "Anyone who does not get on board and help row this boat in one direction clearly has another agenda. While I know we won’t
agree on everything that comes up down the road, I do know that anybody that loves Indy
car racing needs to work together from this day forward. The IRL may be hesitant to say it,
but the day is here for everybody that loves Indy car racing to link arms and help each
other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with
their time.”

[Andrew Longman]

Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”

ALMS? Start another OW series?

But he does have a point. Sort of

[pchall]

From Twitter feed thing:

Gossage still hasn't figured out that he aligned with the losers.

[gerhard911]

"Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”

That's their problem - most already did.

[SteveH]

That's their problem - most already did.

:thumbup:

Try and grow the series with that attirude Eddie, its already in the ditch there's not enough support for it as it is.

[devilmaster]

Strong words from Gossage..... wonder if he'll take his own advice, since he's the most vocal against any series when he doesn't get his way.....

[Gnam]

So it is also an uber gomer jobs program too? :rolleyes:


Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels is appropriating approximately $5 million to help subsidize an industry that still brings millions to the local economy. That money will be given to Dallara which, in turn, will give $150,000 rebates to each Indiana-based team buying a new car.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-2012-car-reactions/


As pointed out on smackforum: $5 million / $150,000 = 33.33 indy cars
The IRL is now taxpayer funded. :shakehead

[devilmaster]

So it is also an uber gomer jobs program too? :rolleyes:

Capping the price of various aero packages probably makes sense, but it will quickly devolve to the one package you have to have to win.

So who's still works outside of gomerville? Rahal? Nhr?

[mueber]

Not what the sport needs, but the best we could expect.

[Elmo T]

Only slightly OT, but I saw a link to Robin Miller's mid season report card (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/robin-miller-indycar-mid-season-report-card/) on the Speed article. There was this:


Bernard has put the wheels in motion for a $20 million hook to get NASCAR stars to the Indy 500,

I don't remember seeing this before. What's the deal with this one??

[Andrew Longman]

So who's still works outside of gomerville? Rahal? Nhr?IIRC Penske is in Charlotte.

[Andrew Longman]

I don't remember seeing this before. What's the deal with this one??

If TG had drastically upped his prize money years ago instead of starting his own series he would never have had to worry about car count or being beholding to anyone. And he would have made a lot more money from the IMS brand.

[TKGAngel]

The Indy/Charlotte deal would apply to any driver doing the double. Win both races, win the cash. It was on Jayski awhile back that Indy was considering moving their start time back to accommodate those that want to do the double. With interest in Indy in the terlet, and NASCAR ratings & attendance down, it would be a win/win for both series in terms of ticket sales & tv ratings.

[Gnam]

NASCAR does not share power.

It's still amazing to me that NASCAR was able to steal Memorial Day from Indy.
To think the IRL used to lock out drivers, and now they are waving $20 million at them only to be turned down. :tony:

[Elmo T]

... It was on Jayski awhile back that Indy was considering moving their start time back to accommodate those that want to do the double.

Between accommodating the double and making sure folks aren't driving home in the dark - maybe it is time for an 8AM race. :rolleyes: And the time buy is probably cheaper.

[SteveH]

Only slightly OT, but I saw a link to Robin Miller's mid season report card (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/robin-miller-indycar-mid-season-report-card/) on the Speed article. There was this:



I don't remember seeing this before. What's the deal with this one??

Must win both the Indy 500 and the NASCAR 600 miler that day.

Like anyone has a shot at doing both. Might as well be $200 million.

[Duroc]

Strong words from Gossage..... wonder if he'll take his own advice, since he's the most vocal against any series when he doesn't get his way.....

Everyone is ramming their nose up Mari's backside and hoping to be the last bid standing. Why else would SMI bother running them at New Hampshire?

Rodeo Randy strikes me as a typical minor league operator. Which is to say, get in, make big promises and be gone before it lands with a thud.

[Don Quixote]

Coyne is in Chitown.

[Wheel-Nut]

Sammich is down here in Texas.

[Methanolandbrats]

IIRC Penske is in Charlotte.Yup, a friend of mine works there.

[Michaelhatesfans]

Eddie Gossage - "Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”


Waaaaaaaaay ahead of you there, Buckwheat.

[oddlycalm]

It's still amazing to me that NASCAR was able to steal Memorial Day from Indy. To think the IRL used to lock out drivers, and now they are waving $20 million at them only to be turned down. :tony:
Whether it's the IMS or GM all it takes is for management to get all the product decisions wrong and miss the opportunities. When have we ever hand more evidence that it's possible to turn the biggest successes into world class losers if idiots are allowed to run the company?

Tony Hulman was a jerk but he had regional stature, knew how to run a company and was able to get things done quickly without waiting for committees and back benchers to act . Rodeo Randy is a lightweight nobody and the long overdue committee style decision shows.

oc

[DagoFast]

Kinda funny how that have been zero sound bites from Cheep or the Pimp. :laugh:

[Andrew Longman]

Kinda funny how that have been zero sound bites from Cheep or the Pimp. :laugh:

Penske, Rahal, NH, Coyne, Foyt are not going to get the "subsidy". Ganassi is probably not to far from combining operations with his NASCAR team, but what do I know? In any event, Cheep and the Captain can still select the one single best aero package and split the wins. This will lower their costs but notice you also didn't hear from anybody who said the new lower cost will get them to start a team,

[TravelGal]

NASCAR does not share power.

It's still amazing to me that NASCAR was able to steal Memorial Day from Indy.
To think the IRL used to lock out drivers, and now they are waving $20 million at them only to be turned down. :tony:

Ain't it the truth. :(

[Accipiter]

Kinda funny how that have been zero sound bites from Cheep or the Pimp. :laugh:

They are too busy designing their own proprietary aero packages to put out press releases.

[stroker]

Does RP still have access to that wind tunnel he used for his abortive F1 effort?

[pchall]

Penske, Rahal, NH, Coyne, Foyt are not going to get the "subsidy". Ganassi is probably not to far from combining operations with his NASCAR team, but what do I know? In any event, Cheep and the Captain can still select the one single best aero package and split the wins. This will lower their costs but notice you also didn't hear from anybody who said the new lower cost will get them to start a team,

Penkse and Ganassi will probably buy each aero package and every piece available and do all the wind tunnel work necessary to find the optimal package for each kind of track on which the IRL runs.

[grungex]

From Twitter feed thing:

Strong stuff from Eddie Gossage, who was on the #indycar committee that chose chassis: "Anyone who does not get on board and help row this boat in one direction clearly has another agenda. While I know we won’t agree on everything that comes up down the road, I do know that anybody that loves Indy car racing needs to work together from this day forward. The IRL may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves Indy car racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”

Um, didn't Gossage hisownself fail to show up for the big Decision today? Seems like he found something else to do with his time...

[Andrew Longman]

Penkse and Ganassi will probably buy each aero package and every piece available and do all the wind tunnel work necessary to find the optimal package for each kind of track on which the IRL runs.

Sure. But they are limited by having to pick one package (with one road and one oval versions) for a season and they can only change it once in season.

RP and CG will get it more right than others but they will likely have some venues where they have to compromise badly. Or so I hope. Like back when Reynards were more competitive on Street courses IIRC but sucked everywhere else.

[cameraman]

A modified GP2 chassis.:p

[DagoFast]

They are too busy designing their own proprietary aero packages to put out press releases.

They can't have proprietary designs. And you are limited to two aero choices per season, presumably one oval and one road course. All aero packages have to be leeg approved BEFORE being built and then made available to all other teams at a leeg mandated price. Which begs the question, why would anyone bother to build a better mousetrap?

[chop456]

Or more importantly, why would anyone bother to participate? :gomer:

[Hard Driver]

Hmm....

Personally, I think this is better than the current crapwagon package. The ability to have different packages adds some interest. However, the aero package being available to all teams seems to be a recipe for everyone going to one package that works best. That is unless manufacturers decide the naming rights are worth buying teams to use their package. So we would have a Ford car (ford aero package) and it would not behouve the team to switch to the honda aero package, even it it is winning, because they have Ford money/sponsorship. This aero package thing might be a way to draw in manufacturer dollars, while basically really having a Dallara/Honda spec racing series... Still might be hard to see a Ford/Honda or Toyota/Honda package.

[pchall]

Sure. But they are limited by having to pick one package (with one road and one oval versions) for a season and they can only change it once in season.

RP and CG will get it more right than others but they will likely have some venues where they have to compromise badly. Or so I hope. Like back when Reynards were more competitive on Street courses IIRC but sucked everywhere else.


Maybe you are thinking about Ganassi running the last Panoz/G-Farce at the first IRL road and street course events.

When the Reynard started to suck it sucked about every place because Adrian Reynard was spending all the money on buying Riley & Scott, building R&D facitlities in Indy, wasting money and resources with BAR/Honda, and building mediocre LMPs. By 2002 Reynard Cars was in bankruptcy and there had been no clean sheet Champcar design after the 1994 car to compete with new Lolas that became competitive in 2001. The only really competitive Reynards at the end were those built under license by Penske Cars at Poole with extensive aerodynamic and mechanical revisions.

In all likelihood the new single tub and boutique aero packages will not do one damned thing to improve the IRL in any fashion. The teams willing and able to spend a lot of money trying to make a silk purse will dominate as ever. I don't mind that, however, since the IRL is what it is and will continue to produce great Futility.

[rosawendel]

http://assets.speedtv.com/images/article_assets/105/1050743/1050743_article_img_large1.jpg
the base car itself doesn't looke like it will pique my interest (looks a bit like a flat lawn dart), but if the aero tweaks do something to help the aesthetic, i might be interested.

[Elmo T]

Enjoy - jump to 11:00 mark to see the actual concept design and possible aero packages. :shakehead

The shark fin is my favorite. :gomer:

J_G3taeftXE

[Hard Driver]

The teams willing and able to spend a lot of money trying to make a silk purse will dominate as ever. I don't mind that, however, since the IRL is what it is and will continue to produce great Futility.

Not sure about the teams spending a lot. Because of the rule that new development packages have to be available to everyone. So why spend money that won't give you a competitive advantage over others since you have to give it all away.

[Methanolandbrats]

If they hung a 900 hp motor on it, that would help. But they won't, they will develop some limp dick lump while they yammer on about fuel conservation and Green ********. Real motor racing is done. Off the the BRIC to see real racing cars tomorrow :)

[grungex]

Me, too. Must remember to bring my camera...

[pchall]

Not sure about the teams spending a lot. Because of the rule that new development packages have to be available to everyone. So why spend money that won't give you a competitive advantage over others since you have to give it all away.

What makes you think men like Penske and Ganassi would actually deliver a product as good as what they develop for themselves?

Everybody knows what it was like buying used PCs from Penske Cars. All the development pieces and the really good mechanical bits were removed. That's a large part of the reason why Tony Bettenhausen's year oid PCs where nothing but 2nd place runners at best. Even when Penske sold "new" cars to Pat Patrick for Emerson Fittipaldi there were stories about deficiencies in the delivered cars. There were reasons that Penske Cars did not get the right to build a chassis for sale for the 2003 IRL regulations.

[Rus'L]

As pointed out on smackforum: $5 million / $150,000 = 33.33 indy cars
The IRL is now taxpayer funded. :shakehead

For decades, IMS always took great pride (and bragged about it) in never asking for any government assistance, not even tax breaks, like so many other professional sports entities.

In a roundabout way, they can no longer say that.

[TravelGal]

What makes you think men like Penske and Ganassi would actually deliver a product as good as what they develop for themselves?

Everybody knows what it was like buying used PCs from Penske Cars. All the development pieces and the really good mechanical bits were removed. That's a large part of the reason why Tony Bettenhausen's year oid PCs where nothing but 2nd place runners at best. Even when Penske sold "new" cars to Pat Patrick for Emerson Fittipaldi there were stories about deficiencies in the delivered cars. There were reasons that Penske Cars did not get the right to build a chassis for sale for the 2003 IRL regulations.

This sort of goes to my question of why would the smaller teams spend the first dollar? If whatever is developed must be available to them, why would they allocate resources when they know the larger teams will do more? Pride? Or knowing that they will get the generic, not the brand name version.

[pchall]

Marshall Pruett weighs in with his Speed bloggie:


I can’t speak for IndyCar fans as a whole, but it came across like the panel believes that open-wheel fans are too dumb to notice what makes a Lola different from a Reynard, or a Panoz different from a Dallara. It assumes that IndyCar fans aren’t curious about technical aspects of a racing car. It assumes IndyCar fans can’t see beyond pretty colors on a sidepod, or are they capable of comprehending or caring why two rival constructors chose different suspension styles or different cockpit shapes. It assumes that the few diehards who showed up to Watkins Glen, or the masses who will likely pack Toronto’s grandstands this weekend, are the low hanging fruit of auto racing. It assumes that after almost a decade of spec IndyCars, IndyCar fans have had their minds turn to mush and have lost all interest in the small details that made open-wheel racing unique.

ICONIC Blunder (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/marshall-pruett-indycar-iconic-thud-or-thunder/)

[Don Quixote]

Pruett nails it. :thumbup:

[TravelGal]

Long article. Very cogent comments but these were my faves. I couldn't agree more.

• If the series wanted to do a bad, pre-recorded voting tribunal, why not hire Jeff Probst to do one, Survivor: Indianapolis style. He could have asked the seven men their choices for the 2012 IndyCar, and walked over to extinguish Tiki torches with the names of Lola, Swift, BAT and DeltaWing on them one by one. That would have been 100 times less awkward than the canned ICONIC-panel-votes-using-Verizon-cell-phones routine. Painful. Very painful.

• I received a text from Sam Collins, Racecar Engineering Magazine’s deputy editor, during the presentation that embodied what I was thinking at the time, and what some others shared later. “spec tub. spec gearbox. spec suspension. spec brakes. spec tyres. what’s the point of doing a non-spec body?”

[BigIrlFan]

YOU bunch of haters need to fined somethink else to do with your time. THEres a new INdyCAr comin and its time to get egcited. I am. IF you knew what INdy means you woud to.


MORe here
http://iambif.com/bif/

BIf#


THE IRl -NO more crapwagons after next year hahahahahahahaha

[Al Czervik]

"THIS aint spec no more. A team can pick and chose what they want but it all matches. LIke granimals only for INDyCars"

BiF hits it out of the park, again!

[Indy]

Still fake, but now it will be faked in such a way to make it seem slightly less fake. So perhaps their audience will go from an average IQ of 73 to 82.

The problem is the Hulman-George family, period. No integrity = no real racing = no real fans = bye-bye AOW.

[Andrew Longman]

Enjoy - jump to 11:00 mark to see the actual concept design and possible aero packages. :shakehead

The shark fin is my favorite. :gomer:


I am honored at this time to introduce the ICONIC team member. Please feel free at this time to take flash pictures:rofl::rolleyes:

Armature hour. OMG

Last week we had the Lebron show and now this. Doesn't anyone have a right-sized and humble sense of self importance. You're friggin Gomers! I love them and have absolutely nothing against them except that the world doesn't end at the Marion Co. border. (or 16th and Georgetown)

[oddlycalm]

Pruett also sums it up well.


If the panel thinks different bodywork is all that’s needed to pull back the fans they lost to NASCAR, they are sadly mistaken. This is a huge miscalculation.

And yet that's exactly what the brain trust at IMS thinks.

oc

[Chief]

Couldn't a press release have sufficed? At least until they had:

1. A car to show in the flesh

2. A manufacturer of aero bits

3. An engine manufacturer(s) to explore the engine / chassis aero-bits combinations

This is just a Dallara-ized Delta Wing concept anyway. Let's hope no one puts in orders for the new crapwagons. Canadian press (if any of them are on their game in Toronto) should expose some owner soundbytes of satisfaction....That'll get the ball rolling... :rofl:

[Napoleon]

Maybe this is where they got the idea for the car:

http://www.fashionmagazine.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/dec09meder2_lg.jpg

[Elmo T]

Maybe this is where they got the idea for the car:


:thumbup::rofl:

I was thinking like this:

http://i31.tinypic.com/14wd9z.jpg

There were too many good ones to choose from:

Stupid Cars Blog (http://stupidlookingcars.freecarblogs.com/)

[pchall]

"THIS aint spec no more. A team can pick and chose what they want but it all matches. LIke granimals only for INDyCars"

BiF hits it out of the park, again!

oh, effing hell, that is brilliant


Maybe this is where they got the idea for the car:

http://www.fashionmagazine.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/dec09meder2_lg.jpg

You need to find cut out "dolls" for pigs with lipstick.

[Gnam]

"THIS aint spec no more. A team can pick and chose what they want but it all matches. LIke granimals only for INDyCars"

BiF hits it out of the park, again!

:laugh:

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3941/garanimals.jpg

[nissan gtp]

need to send that to Ropin' Randy :thumbup:

[73B]

Is a competitive design series being contemplated... by anyone? No.

Should the race be settled by the size of your wind tunnel or on the track? I say the track.

Do other series allow you to make aero changes at will? Ask Audi.

Dallera makes the chassis and the tub. Other manufacturers put on the aero bits. Why is it so crazy? Happens now all the time in real life and at the track.

http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/Porsche/911/Spoilers-Wings/Custom-Fit-Wings/

It taps into the tuner aesthetic, which has wide appeal.

Every track is different. I'd be surprised if any aero package worked best on all of them.

And the fact they are even talking about multiple engine formats is earth shattering.

This is more than a few steps further than ChampCar got, I hate to say.

I'll give them credit if they are around long enough to pull it off.

They've made it this far somehow. Maybe this car will see the light of day.

[SteveH]

This is more than a few steps further than ChampCar got, I hate to say.

Sort of correct. I assume you're referring to the DP-01. The spec was to be frozen for the first X years (can't recall exactly) to provide a level playing field then it was going to be opened up, IIRC. However, **** happened.

[Andrew Longman]

Sort of correct. I assume you're referring to the DP-01. The spec was to be frozen for the first X years (can't recall exactly) to provide a level playing field then it was going to be opened up, IIRC. However, **** happened.
IIRC it was three years and they would open up specific areas of the car over time to control costs. I liked that idea and it did attract teams because they knew that team organization, engineering smarts, race craft and effort could prevail over money at any given race. And it DID sorta work out that way.

I don't think the Garanimal approach is inherently bad, it just is not that compelling and it is still two years away. This could and should have been done years ago but now there is too little interest and commercial value in the series for this to turn it around. There is probably too little for this to even work (i.e., attract multiple manufactures and diversity). I would be shocked if more than two wing kits are available and one will likely show to be more competitive than the others and all will adopt it.

[Andrew Longman]

Catching a bit of TO quals and listening to Randy talk about the new "safety cell". He said after safety the thing that made Dallara most attractive was that they "would build a 92000 sq ft in Speedway, ID and bring jobs to America"

Frankly, living in NJ I don't give a crap about Indiana jobs. OK, that's a little strong, but as a race fan and someone with a horizon line farther away than the state or national border I do not car where the car is made. I'm far more interested in the technical superior engineering solution to a competitive problem. What makes the car compelling? Because it is made in Speedway? I think not.

If it IS made in Speedway, cool, but that is not a driving reason to pick or watch it.

Provincial thinking is what killed the sport and these gomers still don't have a clue.

[SteveH]

If it IS made in Speedway, cool, but that is not a driving reason to pick or watch it.

How many of those safety cells will be made in the USA (let alone Speedway) in order to meet the first season's orders? Unless Dallara has already acquired the land, designed the building and ordered the equipment, that's going to be difficult. But they weren't voted in until the presentation so its doubtful they did any prep work, now did they? ;)

[eiregosod]

Catching a bit of TO quals and listening to Randy talk about the new "safety cell". He said after safety the thing that made Dallara most attractive was that they "would build a 92000 sq ft in Speedway, ID and bring jobs to America"

Frankly, living in NJ I don't give a crap about Indiana jobs. OK, that's a little strong, but as a race fan and someone with a horizon line farther away than the state or national border I do not car where the car is made. I'm far more interested in the technical superior engineering solution to a competitive problem. What makes the car compelling? Because it is made in Speedway? I think not.

If it IS made in Speedway, cool, but that is not a driving reason to pick or watch it.

Provincial thinking is what killed the sport and these gomers still don't have a clue.

the earl has been about returning interest in indycars to be confined within marion county

[G.]

If it IS made in Speedway, cool, but that is not a driving reason to pick or watch it.

Provincial thinking is what killed the sport and these gomers still don't have a clue.

When you have a few hundered (sic) thousand fans all telling you that it's all about Mindy, what do you expect?

[KLang]

I can't think of anything short of a time machine that would make me GAF again. :(

[Methanolandbrats]

I can't think of anything short of a time machine that would make me GAF again. :(

Yup, it all ended in the mid-90s. Open wheel, sportscar racing, all of it went el flusho. The corporate money, the fast cars, the crowds, the eggcitement, it ain't coming back...ever.

[Gnam]

But [Dallara] weren't voted in until the presentation so its doubtful they did any prep work, now did they? ;)

Exactly. Dallara offers a promise of a facility sometime in the future, but the Indiana taxpayers give them 5 million upfront. :shakehead