View Full Version : "Spin & Win" Danny to German GP!
...as the driver's rep on the stewards panel. That's interesting. Who's next, Cheeber?
...as the driver's rep on the stewards panel. That's interesting. Who's next, Cheeber?
Sullivan is no Cheeber!
Good for Danny. Nice to see F1 is willing to reach out to the not so famous/successful drivers (success does not equate to officiating skills) and nice to see F1 reach out to some Americans to fill this role.
WickerBill
07-21-10, 03:58 PM
But will he spend the entire race explaining "marbles" to everyone else in the stewards tent?
BarillaGirl
07-21-10, 07:05 PM
But will he spend the entire race explaining "marbles" to everyone else in the stewards tent?
Don't you mean "klääg"? ;)
Exactly what I meant, Rus'L, thanx:thumbup:
Andrew Longman
07-21-10, 10:43 PM
Nice to see F1 is willing to reach out to the not so famous/successful drivers ...You don't know what (winning) Indy means:tony:
TRANSAM
07-22-10, 12:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4FiXFap3s8
"Don't look back, you can never look back...
Those days are gone forever, I should just let them go..."
What are all those things in the stands cheering during the Indy 500? :gomer:
Damn, those were fun years.
I loved that gold Miller High Life car. :thumbup:
Thanks for posting that. 25 years? I'm glad he won Indy when it counted. And it really counted in 85.
BarillaGirl
07-22-10, 12:08 PM
"Don't look back, you can never look back...
Those days are gone forever, I should just let them go..."
...and the next word in that song is "but......" ;)
If we couldn't look back, we might have nothing to be happy about.
oddlycalm
07-22-10, 04:01 PM
If we couldn't look back, we might have nothing to be happy about.
Yup, and they can't take those memories away although I'm certain both TG and Bernie would like to find a way to charge for them....
oc
Thanks for the clip; makes me want to cry.
Mary
Mr Sullivan and friends have a big decision to make after that debacle today.
Ted
TrueBrit
07-25-10, 01:53 PM
They were fined $100k for that bit of race-fixing..i think they should be thrown out, but the cars aren't silver so the rules don't apply equally to them..:shakehead
I am less and less impressed with that whiney grassing little spanish git as every race passes..:thumdown:
Insomniac
07-25-10, 02:18 PM
On the FOX broadcast, they implied that there was some type of exception for when one car is demonstrably faster than the other. I guess they were wrong. This wasn't a Barichello/Schumacher type of move though. I guess the teams have to put on a better show in the future. (Or take each other out.)
BarillaGirl
07-25-10, 02:27 PM
WOW.
I do not think we should decide the race according to the slower racer's feelings. And when we award points for a TEAM, we should anticipate that a TEAM should be able to make decisions that fall to its advantage.
But, Alonso is still the Spanish brat someone should have taken care of all those years ago. I was so hoping something would fall off his car in the last three laps so Felipe could pull a legitimate pass and take the win. Too bad his car just didn't have it today. :(
How does Felipe make the decision as to whether it's better for his driving career to follow the "coded" team orders or race for his own win? I was so glad he did not respond to Rob Smedley on the radio.
rosawendel
07-25-10, 03:19 PM
another visitor with roots steeped in indy (though not a legend):
http://photos.gpupdate.net/large/159483.jpg
Boatdesigner
07-25-10, 03:24 PM
I must be getting old. I remember the days when the faster car simply passed the slower car. Now the guy behind whines to his boss until they tell the other guy to move over. I'm a Massa supporter, but I think Ferrari should have been disqualified and then fined a couple million dollars to make sure they remember the rules next time. I am seriously losing interest in even watching at this point and F1 is the last auto racing I actually watch. Disgraceful!:irked:
Methanolandbrats
07-25-10, 04:19 PM
I don't know why I still watch this crap. **** Ferrari and double **** Alonso. Oh, Vettel is a douchebag of the first order. I think I'm becoming a Williams fan. :D
Dr. Corkski
07-25-10, 04:21 PM
To see how to properly get away with an obvious team order, see McLaren from this exact race 2 years ago.
Hooray. Some of you are finally getting the idea. Vettel and Webber actually had it right all those weeks ago. "Pass me if you can, sucker." At least we can then blame whoever we wish and support it with all kinds of lame "proof." Some "code", huh? Only about a billion people knew what it meant and that it was going to be sent at some point. In the movie version Massa replies,"Say again. You are breaking up. I can't understand you! What did you say?" Then he pulls the plug and we all have a great 3-way race to the finish. "Real" race fans would love that. Ferrari is glad to pay $100k to solidify the exact result they were looking for. Hell, it cost McLaren $100mil. when they sent UNcoded orders! The way I see it, Alonso WAS faster than Massa. Proved it in qualifying. But that wasn't the RACE, was it? Don't blame Ferrari or Alonso, blame F-1 politics and "rules." (wink, wink) Ferrari acted more as a TEAM than Red Bull did when they wrecked, I guess. Easiest solution is to limit teams to ONE CAR! :gomer: (wonder what Danny said?:))
WickerBill
07-25-10, 05:24 PM
Well, they're gonna dump Massa after this season anyway. He should have raced.... or just stopped on the main straight and gotten out of his car.
Methanolandbrats
07-25-10, 06:49 PM
Well, they're gonna dump Massa after this season anyway. He should have raced.... or just stopped on the main straight and gotten out of his car.
Or brake check Fred :D totalling both cars would send a message to Maranello.
TrueBrit
07-25-10, 09:52 PM
..or just stopped on the main straight and gotten out of his car.
..I was so hoping he would have the stones to do that...
The more I think about it the more disgraceful that was..if you're faster then him, overtake him...otherwise shut it...
Methanolandbrats
07-25-10, 10:22 PM
..I was so hoping he would have the stones to do that...
The more I think about it the more disgraceful that was..if you're faster then him, overtake him...otherwise shut it...
Damn right Britster........Massa should have hopped out of the car and punched the team principal in the face. BTW.............my boy ain't at the front, I think I owe you multiple beers. :D
BarillaGirl
07-26-10, 12:23 AM
..I was so hoping he would have the stones to do that...
The more I think about it the more disgraceful that was..if you're faster then him, overtake him...otherwise shut it...
Massa: "I don't think I have to talk about that." AKA "Isn't it obvious enough what's going on?"
opinionated ow
07-26-10, 11:57 AM
You know what, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they should be able to do as they wish and that the charade is unnecessary. There are two competitions in F1-the manufacturer and the driver. It's no different to the Tour de France. A team's job is to try and win both (just like winning GC and team comp in the tour) and to do that they should be able to use their cars and drivers anyway they wish (with the exception of blatant crashing ala Senna). If Ferrari decided that Massa's job is to support Alonso then so be it. It really is no different to Mark Renshaw leading out Mark Cavendish (but without the head butting).
Hard Driver
07-26-10, 02:50 PM
You know what, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they should be able to do as they wish and that the charade is unnecessary. There are two competitions in F1-the manufacturer and the driver. It's no different to the Tour de France. A team's job is to try and win both (just like winning GC and team comp in the tour) and to do that they should be able to use their cars and drivers anyway they wish (with the exception of blatant crashing ala Senna). If Ferrari decided that Massa's job is to support Alonso then so be it. It really is no different to Mark Renshaw leading out Mark Cavendish (but without the head butting).Yup.
team orders ahve always been part of F1. I don't see why they need to be banned in the first place. I can see them being lame when the faster driver is told to pull over for the slower driver, but lame does not equal illegal.
And in this case, personally, I would tell Massa, hey pull a gap on the guy and you would not be asked to let him pass. Or if he passes you, at least stay on his butt to show that you are just as fast. But when the guy passes you and pulls off into the distance, you don't have anyting to bitch about.
However, all that said, the rules state that there are no team orders, so Ferrari should have let their drivers race like Red Bull and McClaren do. So to stick with the rules, they deserve the fine, if not more.
so Ferrari should have let their drivers race like Red Bull and McClaren do.
I wouldn't expect this laissez-faire attitude to continue as the season winds down. If it means the difference between a drivers/constructors championship, there will no doubt be team orders in play.
cameraman
07-26-10, 03:53 PM
You know what, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they should be able to do as they wish and that the charade is unnecessary. There are two competitions in F1-the manufacturer and the driver. It's no different to the Tour de France. A team's job is to try and win both (just like winning GC and team comp in the tour) and to do that they should be able to use their cars and drivers anyway they wish (with the exception of blatant crashing ala Senna). If Ferrari decided that Massa's job is to support Alonso then so be it. It really is no different to Mark Renshaw leading out Mark Cavendish (but without the head butting).
Have to agree there. That is how it was back in the day. It is a team sport and they just need to admit it.
Insomniac
07-26-10, 04:33 PM
I agree with the "it's a team" crowd. They gave Massa a chance to put the gap on Alonso and keep it and he couldn't keep it up. Massa could've kept him behind him as we've seen guys do countless time this season, but they're on the same team and there's a bigger picture (and a lot of money at stake).
TrueBrit
07-26-10, 05:18 PM
You know what, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they should be able to do as they wish and that the charade is unnecessary. There are two competitions in F1-the manufacturer and the driver. It's no different to the Tour de France. A team's job is to try and win both (just like winning GC and team comp in the tour) and to do that they should be able to use their cars and drivers anyway they wish (with the exception of blatant crashing ala Senna). If Ferrari decided that Massa's job is to support Alonso then so be it. It really is no different to Mark Renshaw leading out Mark Cavendish (but without the head butting).
Going to disagree with you here. The Team's job is to win the manufacturer's title, and if one of their driver's happens to win the WDC at the same time that's great..but for those saying "It's a TEAM sport"..if that were the case, what difference does it make in which order their cars finish 1-2?
Answer: It doesn't, which means the call wasn't about the team at all, but about one driver over the other. And THAT is not allowed in F-1.
As an aside, if the cars that pulled this crap were Silver and a certain facist-spawned S&M perv was still in charge of Ferrari International Assistance, they would have been kicked out of the championship on the spot..as it is, Jean Todt is in charge of Ferrari International Assistance so my guess is that after considering all of the relevant information, and gathering all of the available data, the FIA will reverse the steward's decision and fine the rest of the field...
TrueBrit
07-26-10, 05:21 PM
BTW.............my boy ain't at the front, I think I owe you multiple beers. :D
Why yes sir you do...;):D
Insomniac
07-26-10, 07:14 PM
Going to disagree with you here. The Team's job is to win the manufacturer's title, and if one of their driver's happens to win the WDC at the same time that's great..but for those saying "It's a TEAM sport"..if that were the case, what difference does it make in which order their cars finish 1-2?
Don't teams get winnings based on how their driver's finish in the driver's championship?
Insomniac
07-26-10, 07:17 PM
This is all Vettel's fault. :D Too busy trying to put Alonso (or whoever is #2) in the wall that #3 just drives by in a straight line. Vettel is way too concerned with other drivers. Someone might want to tell him that the cars no longer have launch control to make chopping as easy as when Schumacher did it.
What really makes me mad is I sat through that boring race on that piece of **** track Hockenheim has become in order to see Ferrari cheat (again).
Someone remind me why I waste time on this.
opinionated ow
07-26-10, 08:47 PM
What really makes me mad is I sat through that boring race on that piece of **** track Hockenheim has become in order to see Ferrari cheat (again).
Someone remind me why I waste time on this.
Can't help you...I figured the Tour de France and the World Triathlon Championship in Hyde Park was more important...
I am less and less impressed with that whiney grassing little spanish git as every race passes..:thumdown:
The kicker was Alonso asking the team how Massa was taking it during the cool down lap. How do you think he feels? :mad:
During the post race interview, I hoped Vettel was going to ask Massa why he wasn't allowed to pass for 2nd since he was faster. :D
As an aside, if the cars that pulled this crap were Silver and a certain facist-spawned S&M perv was still in charge of Ferrari International Assistance, they would have been kicked out of the championship on the spot..as it is, Jean Todt is in charge of Ferrari International Assistance so my guess is that after considering all of the relevant information, and gathering all of the available data, the FIA will reverse the steward's decision and fine the rest of the field...
:rofl::rofl:
oddlycalm
07-28-10, 05:49 PM
None of this would be an issue if it was possible to pass a car close to the same speed. All the farking around with the rules and they never get close to eliminating the aero issues.
oc
cameraman
07-28-10, 07:09 PM
None of this would be an issue if it was possible to pass a car close to the same speed. All the farking around with the rules and they never get close to eliminating the aero issues.
ocI'm not so sure I agree with that. It has been very track dependent this year. The can and have passed on a track that has a design that allows it. The Hockenheimring just sucks and any race on it will be lame.
Hard Driver
07-29-10, 11:44 PM
None of this would be an issue if it was possible to pass a car close to the same speed. All the farking around with the rules and they never get close to eliminating the aero issues.
oc
I think if they let them race, Alonso would have found a way by, and it might have ended up as a brilliant pass between teamates. I mean you do know that Massa would prabably at least give a bit of room for a team mate so the crash percentages are lower than at red bull.
oddlycalm
07-30-10, 03:50 PM
The Hockenheimring just sucks and any race on it will be lame.
No argument on that.
oc
opinionated ow
07-30-10, 04:54 PM
No argument on that.
oc
Another tilke ruination
Another tilke ruination
Tilke did not make the desicion to carve up the old track.
Methanolandbrats
07-30-10, 10:20 PM
Tilke did not make the desicion to carve up the old track.
Ya, I seem to remember Bernie ****ed up the track. He wanted the racing closer to the fans and stands. Who would want racing cars running flat out through the woods :mad:
opinionated ow
07-31-10, 02:20 AM
Tilke did not make the desicion to carve up the old track.
He did however design that piece of poo that is the modified circuit...
Thought it was the greenies that wanted the Black Forest back? :irked:
The environmentalists input had made the deep forest sections of the Hockenheimring off limits to spectators for quite sometime. This limited the number of spectators the ring could hold to less than 90,000. Tracks like the EuroSpeedway (Lausitzring) and the (new) Nürburgring (German GP 1985, European Grand Prix or the Luxembourg Grand Prix) could hold more spectators plus far more modern were a threat to take the German GP from Hockenheim. The redesign added room for temporary stands that brought the possible number of spectators up to 120,000 for 2002.
The first German GP at Hockenheim was held in 1970 as the Green Hell Nürburgring had been boycotted by the drivers deemed by them as unsafe and in need of updates that were not completed in time. The improved Nürburgring returned for 1971 -76.
Thought it was the greenies that wanted the Black Forest back? :irked:
Yeah, I don't think that is why they did it, but no doubt they could never reverse it now. :mad:
Thought it was the greenies that wanted the Black Forest back? :irked:
From memory, I think the deal was if they wanted to carve up the forest to redo the track, then they had to dig up the old track and plant trees in the space.
Google maps still has the old track, here (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.327778,8.565833&spn=0.01,0.01&t=h&q=49.327778,8.565833), and looking at how much forest the greenies gave up and how much was given back, I think both the greenies and the fans were screwed.
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