Gametime - NFL 2010 / 2011

[Elmo T]

OK, so Greenie & Golic have been going @ it pretty the past two days on the subject of head shots in the NFL.



All the local talk is on DeSean Jackson and this only got about 10 seconds on the local news :( :

Rutgers Football Player Paralyzed From Neck Down (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/10/17/rutgers-football-player-paralyzed-neck/)


The Avenel resident who played at Colonia High School -- just 15 minutes from Rutgers Stadium in Piscataway -- appeared to duck his head while making the hit.

[dando]

All the local talk is on DeSean Jackson and this only got about 10 seconds on the local news :( :

Rutgers Football Player Paralyzed From Neck Down (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/10/17/rutgers-football-player-paralyzed-neck/)

Truly tragic. I remember watching Adam Taliaferro of PSU being carted off the field @ The Shoe back in 2000. Hopefully LeGrand will make a recovery like Adam, who is now fully mobile and a practicing attorney. :thumbup: And yes, this injury has just been a side note to the NFL violence this past weekend. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[TKGAngel]

I don't want to see the NFL go the way of racing in the US, but the head hunting has got to stop.

-Kevin

The same debate is going on in the NHL. To paraphrase a certain well-spoken player there, until you change the culture of the game to remove the "I made the play, so I'm not responsible for what happened" element of things, you're at a standstill. The goal of the hit is to separate the player from the ball/stop the player, but it has to be done safely.

[Don Quixote]

I think the sport can't sustain with the rate of injuries. Not just these tragic head and neck injuries, but all the injuries. The NFL game is getting harder and harder for me to stay interested. I used to never miss a play on a Monday night football and now I hardly ever watch. Free agency also has had something to do with it. But back to the injuries, the average lifespan of a player's career is going down steadily. Pretty soon the average player will make it 2 years. I have no answers. I don't think either rules or technology will fix this. I am probably wrong, the sport will probably grow in popularity the more it becomes like Roman gladiators. :shakehead

[Methanolandbrats]

The big problem is "team" has been completely forgotten. Now it's all about "me" in nearly all sports. In football that leads to reckless play. In hoops you get LeBron. In baseball it yielded a generation of drug addicts. This ties directly into the free agent comment.

[nrc]

Head to head is one thing, that's clear. "Devastating hits" is ridiculously vague. If a big receiver makes a catch and you have to close five yards to make the tackle, how do you make sure that you get the man on the ground and avoid any chance of a "devastating hit?" A form tackle, exactly the way it's been taught to every player since I was a kid, can become a "devastating hit" just by the velocities involved or the happenstance of what the other player does half a second before you hit him.

Trying to jar the ball loose from the ball carrier has always been part of the game. Is that now outlawed?

This is a huge change to make to the game in such a vague and haphazard way in the middle of a season.

[Indy]

Eventually the more educated in our society will turn away from violent sports. I think this has already happened to some degree. I know I am not much of a football fan, but I like baseball, largely for the George Carlin reasons (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om_yq4L3M_I).

The same has been true in racing. Bernie correctly surmised that societal values in Europe would force the sport into safety measures which could have, if not done very carefully, destroyed the sport. We like to bitch about the chicanes, the tilkedromes, etc., but it is remarkable how adroitly F1 has managed this issue. CART led in safety teams and car safety, but lagged the Europeans in track improvements, and that led to fatalities, one of which (Greg Moore) probably contributed heavily to the decline of the sport here.

So what is football to do? The least intelligent portion of the population can't get enough gore, so clearly they could choose a callous approach, something like the UFC has done to eclipse boxing. But I doubt this would work, as football is too mainstream and too well woven into our society. I suspect such a move by the NFL would lead to congressional action, catastrophic lawsuits, or both. But the whole point of the game is to inflict violence upon others to gain territory on the field. So they are going to demand that the violence be nicer than it is now? How is that going to work?

[chop456]

I used to never miss a play on a Monday night football and now I hardly ever watch.

You know it's on cable now, right?

[Andrew Longman]

All the local talk is on DeSean Jackson and this only got about 10 seconds on the local news :( :

Rutgers Football Player Paralyzed From Neck Down (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/10/17/rutgers-football-player-paralyzed-neck/) Nice piece on LeGrand in the Ledger http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2010/10/politi_as_eric_legrand_lies_pa.html

Real tough story. Great kid.

Sadly he ducked his head making the tackle. In the context of all the stories about hit and rules this weekend, that was not the way he was taught to tackle.

Schiano actually runs clinics for HS and Pop Warner that I have attended where kids are taught to "bite the ball" when tackling. In other words, head up, facemask on the ball... every time.

As for the NFL, I'm not sure how to feel about this. The hit on Jackson was totally legal, on the body. It hurt the defender almost as much as the Jackson. Still gave Jackson a concussion though. What was the defender supposed to do, not hit him?

I'd argue for a lower target on the ball carrier but I would worry it might prompt tacklers to drop their head, risking neck injury. Still might be the way to coach this though. I don't know.

I DO agree that whatever they do, suspension is the way to go, not fines. The money will not influence their desire for a Sportcenter moment that will help their career and contract negotiations. Suspensions take them off the field, off of Sportcenter, and away from their teammates. That will hurt.

I also agree with Young that some of this in on QBs who through into coverage and receivers who can't read coverage. That's something that can be coached.

I don't agree with "devastating hit" as a rule. Too vague. Defenseless yes. Helmet hits yes. Unnecessary and late roughness, yes. But this seems as if it will change games and seasons too easily at the whim of an official. Too F1esque for me.

BTW, son Nicholas, age 11, plays TE in Pop Warner and made two great blocks this past Sunday, one of them pretty "devastating". Sealed back on a sweep to his side and all you saw of the defender was arms and legs going though the air. His head was the first thing to hit the ground. Never saw it coming. Nick is not exactly big or an "aggressive player" if you know what I mean. Lego is the first thing on his mind. But he did exactly as he was coached, allowed a 50 yd gain, and was pretty pleased with himself. I really don't know how else to coach him.

[Andrew Longman]

The big problem is "team" has been completely forgotten. Now it's all about "me" in nearly all sports. A big reason I enjoy HS and Pop Warner football the most. It is still in its purest form. Teamwork is about the only way to win consistently because no one is THAT talented. And poor sportsmanship is absolutely forbidden.

In my daughters lacrosse games, in all leagues and tournaments, players are not allowed to say a word, literally, to the refs under penalty of yellow/red card.

A delight.

[WickerBill]

You let the players wear armor....

If you take the pads and the helmets (especially the helmets) off of the players, and put them in the same situation, the defender would NEVER do what they do with the armor. Why? Because they would risk self-injury. Seriously, if you launched yourself at another moving body with your shoulder, even, and the collision was as violent as we see on the football field, and you didn't have pads -- you'd really hurt yourself, not just the other guy.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but removing the objects defenders use as weapons will reduce injuries. Think about it; you have a chance to sack a QB in a backyard game -- do you really want to smash skulls together? Heck no, you want to leave your head out of this. Cracking skulls with someone else hurts like crazy for both people.

So, to sound like an 80 year old... bring back leather helmets and padded (not hard plastic or CF-covered) shoulder pads. And get off my lawn.

[Don Quixote]

You know it's on cable now, right?What is cable? :confused:

[Don Quixote]

You let the players wear armor....

If you take the pads and the helmets (especially the helmets) off of the players, and put them in the same situation, the defender would NEVER do what they do with the armor. Why? Because they would risk self-injury. Seriously, if you launched yourself at another moving body with your shoulder, even, and the collision was as violent as we see on the football field, and you didn't have pads -- you'd really hurt yourself, not just the other guy.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but removing the objects defenders use as weapons will reduce injuries. Think about it; you have a chance to sack a QB in a backyard game -- do you really want to smash skulls together? Heck no, you want to leave your head out of this. Cracking skulls with someone else hurts like crazy for both people.

So, to sound like an 80 year old... bring back leather helmets and padded (not hard plastic or CF-covered) shoulder pads. And get off my lawn.
This is dead on. The more protection these guys have, the more reckless they are. Add to that the speed and size of the modern player and it is a recipe for disaster. But they will never go back to less protection.

[Elmo T]

So, to sound like an 80 year old... bring back leather helmets and padded (not hard plastic or CF-covered) shoulder pads. And get off my lawn.

Interesting view :thumbup:....

we are seeing the same thing with firefighter injuries. Modern equipment allows us to go deeper into a fire than ever before - sometimes with tragic consequences. We can no longer feel the real heat - a false sense of security.

There is a school of thought in the field - that we ought to do away with nomex hoods and some of the extra protective gear - rely more on your senses than the suit of flame resistance armor.

[dando]

You let the players wear armor....

If you take the pads and the helmets (especially the helmets) off of the players, and put them in the same situation, the defender would NEVER do what they do with the armor. Why? Because they would risk self-injury. Seriously, if you launched yourself at another moving body with your shoulder, even, and the collision was as violent as we see on the football field, and you didn't have pads -- you'd really hurt yourself, not just the other guy.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but removing the objects defenders use as weapons will reduce injuries. Think about it; you have a chance to sack a QB in a backyard game -- do you really want to smash skulls together? Heck no, you want to leave your head out of this. Cracking skulls with someone else hurts like crazy for both people.

So, to sound like an 80 year old... bring back leather helmets and padded (not hard plastic or CF-covered) shoulder pads. And get off my lawn.

One 'word': NFLPA. A friend of mine actually suggested the same thing. His analogy was how his motorcycle riding equipment allowed him to tempt fate and ride more aggressively.

-Kevin

[dando]

Of course this would be a non-issue if we just had more Brett Favres.

MX0nuEuuKIk

:D

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

I think they can legislate it with fines and suspensions. The amount of research and progress they have made with concussions in the last few years is making it more and more clear that these hits are not acceptable.

On top of what they are doing now, they should review film and fine anyone who leads with their head (especially those who lower it) whether it's helmet-to-helmet or not. And escalate the fines and eventual suspensions.

This is a cultural change that some players prefer the kill shot over using fundamentals to tackle. People have convinced us you can't tackle RBs like Adrian Peterson or big WRs like Anquan Boldin without hitting them hard.

I love football, but not for big hits. The games is simply awesome. I'd like to know that in 20-30 years the guys I watch play now won't have their brains scrambled.

[nrc]

This is a cultural change that some players prefer the kill shot over using fundamentals to tackle. People have convinced us you can't tackle RBs like Adrian Peterson or big WRs like Anquan Boldin without hitting them hard.

It's a simple fact of physics. The object has always been to stop the offensive player right now. To stop them in their tracks you have to bring an equal and opposite force. That means a big collision. If you just try to drag Adrian Peterson or Anquan Boldin down they will drag you for five yards every time.

My concern is that there's already too much inconsistency in the way that person fouls are called and this is only going to make it worse.

[devilmaster]

So, to sound like an 80 year old... bring back leather helmets and padded (not hard plastic or CF-covered) shoulder pads. And get off my lawn.

I've been wishing hockey would do the same for years....

[Insomniac]

It's a simple fact of physics. The object has always been to stop the offensive player right now. To stop them in their tracks you have to bring an equal and opposite force. That means a big collision. If you just try to drag Adrian Peterson or Anquan Boldin down they will drag you for five yards every time.

My concern is that there's already too much inconsistency in the way that person fouls are called and this is only going to make it worse.

But the physics of the collision don't change if you lead with your helmet and/or aim high. The mass and acceleration are still the same. What happened to seeing what you're hitting?

The officials need to know the rules and call what they see. Let the league review it and make corrections after that. They shouldn't ask the officials to do any more than that, they're humans.

[Andrew Longman]

Speaking of physics and science, this is a pretty detailed explanation of LeGand injury and spinal injuries in general. http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2010/10/rutgers_community_awaits_news.html

http://media.nj.com/rutgers_football/other/RuInjuryGraphic.pdf

WARNING: I tried reading this at the breakfast table this morning and it didn't go so well.

Note:
"Everything’s a percentage," he said. "The chances of being hit in a football game and having your spinal cord injured is low, but it can happen. The chances of regaining movement, even if you have no movement at 72 hours, is also low — but it can happen."

Each year, four to 12 football players are paralyzed, according to the National Athletic Trainers Association. Forty percent of those injuries are the result of a player making contact with his helmet, as in LeGrand’case.

"We watch these hits all the time, the vast majority of which we see people walking away," Vingan said. "Maybe it’s more surprising that’s the case, considering the force that’s constantly being thrown around … Anyone is at risk, if the force is strong enough."To put in context, thinking of the thousands of players and many more thousands of hits in countless practices and games, the odds are pretty low even if they are tragic.

[Andrew Longman]

If you take the pads and the helmets (especially the helmets) off of the players, and put them in the same situation, the defender would NEVER do what they do with the armor. I've had repeated conversations with non-Americans who say that football contact is nothing or that Rugby is tougher because American "footballers wear all that padding". I always need to introduce them to the notion that the padding is offensive, not defensive. It enables you to hit others harder. Blocking is not legal in Rugby so unlike Rugby, any football player either hits or is hit on nearly every play (or is supposed to). The pads make that more violent and certain.

More so, it is critical to make a stop "right there". Where you bring a rugby runner down hardly matters so long as you bring him down. In football a third and four is a big difference from a third and one or even a first down. And solid, sure blocks give the 18" of space a runner needs to make any yardage at all.

Ironically in the days of leather helmets and no facemasks we saw, at least at the professional level LEGAL clothesline tackles, head slaps, horse collars, low blocks and crackbacks, head shots, etc. In many ways they have already legislated much of the violence out of the game even if every week we seem to see a Gifford/Bednarik type hit. v_4yA3TVh7A

[Andrew Longman]

Snooping around out of curiousity I found this OZwKS4S4sAc WARNING soundtrack is NSFW... but appropriate.

Most might easily be called "devastating". Many are simply dangerous head-down spears and or helmet-to-helmet hits that I'll bet mostly were not called but should have. But a huge number are textbook heads up hits to the body exactly as they should be coached (and fans want to see). And they were "devastating", usually leaving the other player on the turf looking for his lungs.

I don't see how this new rule is going to be effectively officiated in ways that don't change game outcomes or change the game itself. Especially when it can leave a defender, facing a big receiver or back, the choice of being creamed or doing the creaming.

[dando]

Look @ the NJtard gettin' down with the Youtube... :gomer: :p

I raise your Bednarik with Jack. Tatum. aka: The Assassin.

fJrDYQwwbuY

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

You know looking at that clip almost every one of Tatum's hits were head up and/or with the shoulder. I do think they were a little more forgiving about using forearms though. :D

I see your tatum and raise you a Taylor. He usually blew up 3-4 guys in one play on the way to the QB.kWo4KTOcHS0Crap, I'll go all in. Butkus8pN17DwChuQBut note here too. Butkus devastating hit were not with the top of his head and were not to the other players head (though in a few cases he tried to rip it off)

[dando]

You know looking at that clip almost every one of Tatum's hits were head up and/or with the shoulder. I do think they were a little more forgiving about using forearms though. :D

I see your tatum and raise you a Taylor. He usually blew up 3-4 guys in one play on the way to the QB.kWo4KTOcHS0Crap, I'll go all in. Butkus8pN17DwChuQBut note here too. Butkus devastating hit were not with the top of his head and were not to the other players head (though in a few cases he tried to rip it off)

Like the guy said in the video for Tatum, "#6? re-evaluate that." :gomer: And if you want to talk about forearms, watch Night Train Lane's 'highlight' video. The NFL re-wrote the rule book because of him. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[SteveH]

NSFW image of Favre's new helmet (http://i52.tinypic.com/x2j77r.jpg)

[nrc]

But the physics of the collision don't change if you lead with your helmet and/or aim high. The mass and acceleration are still the same. What happened to seeing what you're hitting?

The officials need to know the rules and call what they see. Let the league review it and make corrections after that. They shouldn't ask the officials to do any more than that, they're humans.

I'm not saying that helmet to helmet hits should be acceptable. That has been clearly defined for quite some time, even if it was unevenly enforced. Better enforcement of that might have kept them from getting to where they are today.

I'm talking about increasingly vague concepts like "defenseless receiver" and "devastating hit".

Next defenders will start aiming at the legs to make sure they get the man down without risking heavy contact. After a few ruined careers it will be illegal to hit below the waist and we can just get the velcro flags out.

[nrc]

With the Bengals set to play the Falcons, Mike Zimmer tells us what he thinks about Bobby Petrino. Zimmer was Petrino's DC before Petrino bailed on the Falcons mid-season.

“When a coach quits in the middle of the year and ruins a bunch of people’s families and doesn’t have enough guts to finish out the year, I’m not a part of it,” Zimmer said. “And you can put that in the Arkansas News Gazette. I don’t really give a (bleep). He’s a coward, he ruined a bunch of people’s lives, a bunch of families, kids, because he didn’t have enough (guts) to stay there and finish the job. And that’s the truth. Most people in football have enough courage about him and enough fight to stick it out and not quit halfway through the year. It’s cowardly.”

“He came in and said he resigned, (said) he’d talk to us all at a later date, walked out of the office and no one has talked to him since,” Zimmer said. “Not that anybody wanted to. He’s a gutless (bleep). You can quote that.”

[dando]

With the Bengals set to play the Falcons, Mike Zimmer tells us what he thinks about Bobby Petrino. Zimmer was Petrino's DC before Petrino bailed on the Falcons mid-season.

And the gutless (bleep) part @ the end was mother ****er. :thumbup: Good for Zim. Petrino is a POS. :irked:

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

Good article on helmets. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/sports/football/21helmets.html?partner=rss&emc=rss Informative even if it perpetuates notion that helmets can do much to prevent concussions. Direct impacts to the head a helmet can certainly help but many, perhaps most, concussions come from jarring hits to the body that puts G forces on the brain.

Indeed, one of the worst concussions I remember happening live in my 29 years of playing and three years of coaching happened two weeks ago to an 11 year old I coach. He collided with a teammate in practice while helping to make a tackle and without a blow to the head got a bad concussion that immediately had him screaming about how much his head hurt. It was actually pretty sick, especially given his young age.

It made me thankful for all the harping I've been on them since August about how to properly tackle, even if his concussion had nothing to do with bad form, but just a general big hit to the body.

I also recall shot of Cutler on the sideline during the Giants game, long before his final sack and head hitting the turf (but after about 4-5 sacks) and thinking his face looks as if he is suffering from a concussion. There is a look in the eye I can't describe, but I know it well. My player still had it about 4 days later, but he finally looked good when I saw him yesterday.

[BarillaGirl]

Having previously worked at a reputable day care and gone through intense education about spotting the signs of child abuse, I'll concur that you can get black eyes without taking a punch to them, or a concussion without a direct blow to the head. Anything that that encourages the quick movement of the brain within the skull can cause a concussion and soft tissue injury to the head.... and that's what all the physics of modern football add up to do.

I think, as with motor racing, our human and engineering capabilities have outstripped our ability to prevent serious injury with safety equipment, fines, and regulations alone. (The freak fatal accidents, as with Greg Moore's, will always crop up and there's no way to pad against them. :( )

The difference here is that a smart racing driver is more willing to lift off the gas pedal on occasion if it means avoiding a likely-fatal collision. A football player won't risk missing the hit or not making the play if it means everyone is safe and healthy but he gets cut from the team because he didn't make the numbers everyone expected him to. Hard hits are part of the game as long as there is this much perceived "safety" equipment. Altruism really isn't.

Oddly enough, making the players feel less protected by removing some padding (or the facemask) might work to introduce an element of judgment calls at the player level. It might even call for actual teamwork instead of dramatic individual antics. Is that the kind of game fans would continue to watch and cheer for and support financially?

[Insomniac]

Safety video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81b80962/Player-safety

[Insomniac]

I'm not saying that helmet to helmet hits should be acceptable. That has been clearly defined for quite some time, even if it was unevenly enforced. Better enforcement of that might have kept them from getting to where they are today.

I'm talking about increasingly vague concepts like "defenseless receiver" and "devastating hit".

Next defenders will start aiming at the legs to make sure they get the man down without risking heavy contact. After a few ruined careers it will be illegal to hit below the waist and we can just get the velcro flags out.

I think defenseless receiver is pretty well defined: A receiver who is in the act of making a catch or has made a catch but has not had an opportunity to protect themselves.

They've clarified that there is nothing about "devastating hit" to the renewed enforcement.

The rules seems pretty simple to me:

1. Don't use your helmet, including the face mask, as a weapon against any part of the body.
2. Don't hit a defenseless receiver, QB in the act of passing or just throwing a pass or a kicker/punter not taking a defensive posture in the head/neck with any part of your body.
3. The above still applies if the initial contact is below the head/neck and the follow through still cause you to hit the head/neck.

You can avoid basically all the problems if you don't lead with your helmet (#1 above) and you don't hit certain players (#2 above) at certain times in the head/neck.

It doesn't seem all that complicated considering players are taught to aim below the head/neck and look at what they hit.

Still seems to be plenty of room for big and devastating hits.

[Methanolandbrats]

They'll look lower and refine knee shattering into an artform.

[nrc]

The rules seems pretty simple to me:

1. Don't use your helmet, including the face mask, as a weapon against any part of the body.
2. Don't hit a defenseless receiver, QB in the act of passing or just throwing a pass or a kicker/punter not taking a defensive posture in the head/neck with any part of your body.
3. The above still applies if the initial contact is below the head/neck and the follow through still cause you to hit the head/neck.

If that's what they enforce, that will be fine. The problem I've seen is that there had already been officials going overboard with the "defenseless receiver" calls based on the "point of emphasis". Perfectly legal hits with no contact to the head or neck were called personal fouls simply because they looked violent. In a couple of cases the league even said after the fact that the hit was legal.

Maybe that was just an adjustment period and they'll do better going forward. I'd rather have the officials calling only what they see and not change a game based on a guess from 30 yards away.

They can clarify away the "devastating hits" comment but the officials here and respond to comments like that.

[dando]

~5 to go in the first half and the Bills are up 24-10 over the Dirty Birds? @ Bmore?!? :eek:

And yes, CP is officially a marginal NFL QB @ this point. :shakehead :saywhat: :mad:

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

~5 to go in the first half and the Bills are up 24-10 over the Dirty Birds? @ Bmore?!? :eek:

And yes, CP is officially a marginal NFL QB @ this point. :shakehead :saywhat: :mad:

-Kevin

The Ravens might be wishing they were the Bills now. :)

[TKGAngel]

That was fun while it lasted.:\

[dando]

TKG, looks like you bailed to soon. Too bad the Bills PK made the FG today instead of in the Super Bowl.

</Scott Norwood>

;)

Bungles. WTF? :saywhat: Give up 17 in the 2nd, score 22 in the 3rd, give up 15 in the 4th. :shakehead

Where's the love for McBoy this week, yo? Hillis has a better QB rating on one pass. :gomer: :laugh: 74 yards and a 68 rating. :rofl:

-Kevin

[TKGAngel]

TKG, looks like you bailed to soon. Too bad the Bills PK made the FG today instead of in the Super Bowl.

-Kevin

I watched the entire game. Fitzpatrick played a hell of a game, but the D can't stop a tight end if their lives depended on it.

And the off-field entertainment was great as well, what with Thurman Thomas fighting with ESPN's Tim Graham on Twitter.

[Don Quixote]

Where's the love for McBoy this week, yo? Hillis has a better QB rating on one pass. :gomer: :laugh: 74 yards and a 68 rating. :rofl:

-KevinW

[Don Quixote]

Nags down 38-0 halfway through the 2nd quarter. :laugh:

[dando]

W

Tallest dwarf. :p :gomer:

-Kevin

[dando]

Nags down 38-0 to the Raiderz before the half. :eek:

OK, so I prematurely called CP DOA, but WTF? nrc, I need a tale of the tape since I was in and out of the game on the radio working around the house. Lap was blistering him in the first half and then BOOM! :irked:

Oh, and Cutler....get some glasses, yo. :D

-Kevin

[nrc]

OK, so I prematurely called CP DOA, but WTF? nrc, I need a tale of the tape since I was in and out of the game on the radio working around the house. Lap was blistering him in the first half and then BOOM! :irked:

Palmer was throwing high again in the first half. He had a good second half but the defense was unable to consistently stop either the run or pass. With Joseph out Jones was a mismatch against White and even Hall struggled. Tough to when against 39 points, even when you're not self-destructing.

[stroker]

M&B, we're halfway there.

Although I wouldn't have called it an inspiring win.

Win by the Favre, die by the Favre.

[dando]

Classic Farve. :gomer: :saywhat:

-Kevin

[dando]

Palmer was throwing high again in the first half. He had a good second half but the defense was unable to consistently stop either the run or pass. With Joseph out Jones was a mismatch against White and even Hall struggled. Tough to when against 39 points, even when you're not self-destructing.

That's pretty much what I gathered from the radio....before I chucked my headset across the room. :irked: Lap was beside himself in the 1st half and then classic Homer Lap in the 3rd Q. I'm not sure if I'm more disappointed in the D or the O @ this point. What was your take on the long pass to TO in the drive before Cid fumbled?

-Kevin

[Methanolandbrats]

I think Purple Jeebus just got confused and forgot which team he was on, so he chucked it to the wrong people. :D

[BarillaGirl]

I think Purple Jeebus just got confused and forgot which team he was on, so he chucked it to the wrong people. :D

He's been chucking it to the wrong people on late-and-long for several years now. As someone else said, Classic Favre.

I knew it would work out for the Packers eventually! :thumbup:

[TKGAngel]

ESPN says Farve's ankle done broke in two places.

[Don Quixote]

That should about do it.

[EDwardo]

ESPN says Farve's ankle done broke in two places.

Favre the Black Knight

Title: The Black Knight
From: Monty Python and the Holy Grail


Arthur and his trusty servant Patsy "ride" along through the woods.
Suddenly they come apon a stream crossing where two knights are battling in a heated duel with giant longswords. One is dressed in green and one in black. Arthur stops and watches the fight.
The two knights attempt to maul each other in many various ways and with many different tools of medieval weaponry. Finally, when the green knight is
charging the black with a battle axe, the black knight throws his sword
straight through the slit in the green knight's helmet. The green knight falls
to the ground, bleeding profusely. The black knight steps forward and pulls
his sword out of the helmet. King Arthur, impressed with the black knight's
fighting, motions to Patsy and they "ride" forward.

Arthur: You fight with the strength of many men, sir knight.
(The black knight does not respond)
Arthur: I am Arthur, king of the Britons.
(no response)
Arthur: I seek the finest and the bravest knights in the land to join me at my
court at Camelot.
(no response)
Arthur: You have proved yourself worthy. Will you join me?
(no response)
Arthur: You make me sad. So be it! Come, Patsy!

As Arthur and Patsy start to ride past the black knight, he suddenly speaks:

Black Knight: NONE SHALL PASS.
Arthur: (taken aback) What?
Black Knight: NONE SHALL PASS.
Arthur: I have no quarrel with you, good sir knight, but I must cross
this bridge.
Black Knight: THEN YOU SHALL DIE.
Arthur: I *command* you, as king of the Britons, to stand aside.
Black Knight: I MOVE FOR NO MAN.
Arthur: So be it! (draws sword)

A short battle ensues, where Arthur, relatively unencumbered by armor, easily
dodges the slow and heavy strikes by the black knight. Finally, Arthur
dodges a strike, steps aside, and cuts the black knight's left arm off with
his sword. Blood spurts from the knight's open shoulder.

Arthur: Now stand aside, worthy adversary.
Black Knight: 'Tis but a scratch.
Arthur: A SCRATCH? Your arm's off!
Black Knight: No it isn't!
Arthur: Well what's that then? (pointing to the arm lying on the ground)
Black Knight: I've had worse.
Arthur: You LIAR!
Black Knight: Come on, you pansy!

There follows an even shorter foray, at the end of which Arthur easily cuts
off the black knight's right arm, causing it and the black knight's sword to
drop to the ground. Blood spatters freely from the stump.

Arthur: Victory is mine!
(kneeling, praying) We thank thee Lord, that in thy mercy--

He is kicked onto his side by the black knight.

Black Knight: Come on, then! (kicks Arthur again)
Arthur: (on the ground) What?!?
Black Knight: (kicking him again) Have at you!
Arthur: (getting up) You are indeed brave, sir knight, but the fight
is mine!
Black Knight: Ohhh, had enough, eh?
Arthur: Look, you stupid bastard, you've got no arms left!
Black Knight: Yes I have!
Arthur: LOOK!!!
Black Knight: Just a flesh wound! (kicking Arthur again)
Arthur: Look, STOP that!
Black Knight: Chicken!!! Chicken!!!!!!!
Arthur: Look, I'll have your leg!
(The Black Knight continues his kicking)
Arthur: RIGHT! (He chops off the black knight's leg with his sword)
Black Knight: (hopping) Right! I'll do you for that!
Arthur: You'll *WHAT*?
Black Knight: Come 'ere!
Arthur: (tiring of this) What're you going to do, bleed on me?
Black Knight: I'm *INVINCIBLE*!!!
Arthur: You're a looney....
Black Knight: The Black Knight ALWAYS TRIUMPHS! Have at you!!
(hopping around, trying to kick Arthur with his one remaining
leg)

Arthur shrugs his shoulders and, with a mighty swing, removes the Black
Knight's last limb. The Knight falls to the ground. He looks about,
realizing he can't move.

Black Knight: Okay, we'll call it a draw.
Arthur: Come, Pasty! (they "ride" away)

Black Knight: (calling after them) Oh! Had enough, eh? Come back and take what's coming to you, you yellow bastards!! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!

[Don Quixote]

:rofl: :rofl:

[Methanolandbrats]

ESPN says Farve's ankle done broke in two places.

KInda low on the leg, but it's a start.

[devilmaster]

Wonder if any of his teammates are quietly sighing with relief......

[Insomniac]

So who is throwing deep to Randy vs the Patriots this weekend?

[extramundane]

So who is throwing deep to Randy vs the Patriots this weekend?

BRETT FAVRE, THAT'S WHO! THE DETERMINATION! THE GRIT! HE'S INVINCIBLE.


-Cris Collinsworth

[nrc]

Tape that sucker up and let's go!

[Methanolandbrats]

Hell ya, a couple beers and a handful of vicodin and that sucker will heal in a couple days. :thumbup:

[EDwardo]

Is Jamarcus Russell available?
:eek:

[extramundane]

Is Jamarcus Russell available?
:eek:

For offensive tackle, maybe.

[chop456]

Is Jamarcus Russell available?
:eek:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/10/ex-raiders-qb-jamarcus-russell-admits-mistakes-vows-he-will-return-to-the-nfl/1

[WickerBill]

Nah.


What specifically did he do wrong?

"I am not sure," Russell told Showtime interviewer Josina Anderson.

[Andrew Longman]

Boys 1-5.

Sadly Romo broke his collar bone. First time I did that I missed one week. Second time I was out six weeks and done for the season. Sad for Romo, but MUCH more importantly Jerry Jones now has an excuse and his head will not likely explode and we will not likely fire Phillips. So as a Giant fan I guess that's a good thing. I am Phillips' biggest fan.

I loved his post game press conference. One of the first questions was "Are you perplexed?" http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fObSStlFSGg/SNv6D3lVVXI/AAAAAAAACA4/72WuHHMTxqk/s1600/wade3.bmphttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGXpVmZqop8-A-YoqR-U-KA_f4M4rOjXJ4BMs95j5TeFix5i0&t=1&usg=__HBS9DO_NAAptmfkxm2NCX_PmShQ=http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00gJ5wf5nAaCf/439x.jpg

[Don Quixote]

This is one of my favorite pictures ever. :rofl:

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a411/dddd5/dallaslosestominn.jpg

[Insomniac]

I can't believe Jerry has shown so much restraint.

[Andrew Longman]

I can't believe Jerry has shown so much restraint.And you know after he spent a billion plus to build Jerry World and put his kids in charge of it, having a suck ass team that can't win and can't win in it has to kill him.

He does I suppose have to be careful about giving up on the team or the fans will too. That happened to Steinbrenner until he learned/was forced to shut up and let Gene Michaels run things.

[BarillaGirl]

KInda low on the leg, but it's a start.

Next week: The Knee. :thumbup:

[nrc]

Soon the truth will be revealed. Brett Farve is a zombie. He'll be out there playing this weekend with is foot flapping around like of sock full of meat. You'll have to shoot him in the head to take him out.

[Don Quixote]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

First post ever with the words "sock full of meat".

[Andrew Longman]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

First post ever with the words "sock full of meat".The boss posted it, so I guess it is OK :D

[dando]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

First post ever with the words "sock full of meat".

I think nrc was quoting something from the '89 Super Bowl involving Tim Krumrie. :eek: You know, that BIG game the Clowns have never played in. :gomer: :p

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

And you know after he spent a billion plus to build Jerry World and put his kids in charge of it, having a suck ass team that can't win and can't win in it has to kill him.

He does I suppose have to be careful about giving up on the team or the fans will too. That happened to Steinbrenner until he learned/was forced to shut up and let Gene Michaels run things.

Some people are speculating as much ass-kissing (more than usual) Jon Gruden did during the broadcast indicates that the job will be his in 2012.

[dando]

Some people are speculating as much ass-kissing (more than usual) Jon Gruden did during the broadcast indicates that the job will be his in 2012.

I don't buy that. He dealt with Jerry Jones Sr. in Oakland. No way he goes back to that kind of situation, IMO.

-Kevin

[Don Quixote]

I don't buy that. He dealt with Jerry Jones Sr. in Oakland. No way he goes back to that kind of situation, IMO.

-KevinI don't know what motivates a head coach to want to work 100+ hours a week, lose touch with your family, sleep in your office, have to deal with the press, always being criticized in the papers and talk radio, etc, etc. You would think that nobody in the world would work for Skeletor or Al Davis on top of all that, but whenever the job opens the line forms out front. It must be some kind of sickness.

[dando]

I don't know what motivates a head coach to want to work 100+ hours a week, lose touch with your family, sleep in your office, have to deal with the press, always being criticized in the papers and talk radio, etc, etc. You would think that nobody in the world would work for Skeletor or Al Davis on top of all that, but whenever the job opens the line forms out front. It must be some kind of sickness.

Could be worse. He could work for Mike Brown. :saywhat: I'm still holding out hope that Chuckie will be Tressel's replacement. :thumbup:

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

I'm still holding out hope that Chuckie will be Tressel's replacement. :thumbup:

-KevinWhoa. That would be different. Don't see him doing well in that culture. Tress is a perfect fit. His replacement will need to be in the button down/sweater vest department

:gomer:

[Andrew Longman]

I don't know what motivates a head coach to want to work 100+ hours a week, lose touch with your family, sleep in your office, have to deal with the press, always being criticized in the papers and talk radio, etc, etc. You would think that nobody in the world would work for Skeletor or Al Davis on top of all that, but whenever the job opens the line forms out front. It must be some kind of sickness.

Like it or not, the Cowboys are among the toppest tier organizations in not just the NFL but all of sport worldwide. They effectively have unlimited money, can pay for the personal they want, and it is rare season when they are ruled out of consideration to be in the Super Bowl.

If you are a coach by DNA and profession you can choose to be miserable working 100 hour weeks trying to beat the Cowboys or you can be the Cowboys.

It is a rare breed who can do that job well, but they'd all like to try to see if they are among that elite class. (The Yankees manager job is not much different). IMO only Landry and Johnson really pulled it off. The rest have simply been caretakers for a lot of talent and lapdogs for Mr Jones (and Landry never really had to put up with Jones).

Now why anyone would want to work for Al Davis (in the last 25 years) I don't know other than they need the work. And it has shown.

Gruden at Dallas. If I was a Dallas fan I'd say they could do/have done a whole lot worse. I'd wonder if Gruden would want it, though I don't know how cemented he is in the MNF gig. He is not exactly John Madden. OTOH he annoys me but not as much as Cris Collinsworth and Cris had had employment for years.

I also wonder who else Jerry would pick. I'd stay out of the college ranks (though I think Pete Carroll might have fit, but until now had not succeeded in the pros). It increasingly is a different game. He needs a star coach because it is Dallas and they've had too little success for too long. New stadium and all, they need to win. Of those available, I don't think Dungy would do it. He's too centered as a human to "need it". Schottenheimer still hasn't won big anywhere. Cowlher. Maybe, but he too seems to have retired at the right time for the right reasons. Fassel? No. He tried Parcells. Gibbs? not interested. Billick? Sucked despite SB win. It was Ryan's defense. Saban? Personality-wise a good fit and all it would take is money, but may not want to risk him skipping. Jimmy Johnson? Billy Martin worked a few times for Steinbrenner. Who are the hot DC and OCs right now? I don't see any.

Jason Garrett has always been the coach in waiting. If things were going better in Dallas and Phillips just wanted to retire, that would make sense, but not now.

Frankly, Rex Ryan would have been perfect. Brash enough to take the pressure. A Players coach who can also handle egos. Good with the media. Defensive minded (it is the NFC east). Basic lunatic. Perfect for Dallas. But if he continues to win he will be in NYC for a long time I think.

Bottom line. Wade looks to be safe in his job for now. Or Gruden:gomer:

[dando]

Whoa. That would be different. Don't see him doing well in that culture. Tress is a perfect fit. His replacement will need to be in the button down/sweater vest department

:gomer:

Dunno. He's from Youngstown and his name has popped here and there. :confused:

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

Dunno. He's from Youngstown and his name has popped here and there. :confused:

-KevinReally. He just seems to be a bit of a bull in the china shop type, more sweatsuit than sweater vest and not likely to do well hanging out with Columbus Chamber of Commerce and certain tOSU alumni types at the country club19th hole. If you know what I mean.

No knock there but Tress is a smooth fit and brings a sense of order and conservatism (not political, just buttoned down) that is welcomed in that culture from my experience.

[Gnam]

49ers announce 3rd string QB Troy Smith (former tOSU Buckeye, 2006 Heisman) as the starter against the Broncos for the London game.

Now I have to tune in to see if they can fail in an all new international way.

Also, according to wiki, Troy's nickname in high school was "The London Cowboy." I'm sure that is at least 10% of the reason why he got the start. :D

[Insomniac]

I don't know what motivates a head coach to want to work 100+ hours a week, lose touch with your family, sleep in your office, have to deal with the press, always being criticized in the papers and talk radio, etc, etc. You would think that nobody in the world would work for Skeletor or Al Davis on top of all that, but whenever the job opens the line forms out front. It must be some kind of sickness.

I think it's a misnomer they work 100+ hours a week. I know when I work long weeks, I'm not a fan if the work isn't fun. I know people who work in the 70 hour range a week and travel a lot, and they only do it because they really enjoy the work or it's a short term plan in a high paying job.

[Andrew Longman]

I think it's a misnomer they work 100+ hours a week. Yeah, and they only work 11 months a year. :gomer:

[Gnam]

When asked why he takes LB Takeo Spikes out of the game on third downs 49ers coach Mike Singletary responded:


"Takeo is playing well, doing a good job," Singletary said. "But at the same time, we want to have Takeo for the entire season and hopefully into the playoffs. So we have to do everything that we can do to make sure we protect" him.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/28/SPLH1G3KQ4.DTL#ixzz13lgPxPdd

:shakehead

The hope is Singletary is fired during the bye week.
The consensous is he'll be fired at the end of the season.
The fear is he'll get a contract extension before the season ends.
Go Niners! :cry:

[dando]

CP :saywhat: He looked crisp on the first drive, but has been up and down ever since. Damn lucky on the second TD to TO. :eek: Curious time out calling by Marvin just before the half results in yet another FG (number 4) by the Fish. :shakehead

Jax > 'boyz @ the half. :thumbup: :gomer:

9ers and Nags in London? One just hopes this doesn't result in another US-Britain war. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[dando]

Looks like I can officially put away my Who Dey gear for the season. Pathetic. The O can't do squat outside of the drive (first first drive TD in 13 games???), the second TD was a total gift, the D is on the field too long and gets gassed late in the game, and gives up a 98-yard drive with the game basically on the line early in the 4th. :saywhat: :shakehead Time to blow this puppy up and start over....starting with Marvin. :irked: Bring back Shula. :gomer: And it's time for CP to go away. Now. :irked:

-Kevin

[STD]

Can they get rid of Brown yet? :laugh:

[TKGAngel]

What an ending to Bills/Chiefs.

[dando]

So Shanny pulls McNabb after an INT for Sexy Rexy, who then fumbles the first snap. Fuse lit. :gomer: :rofl:

EDIT: forgots to add that Suh picked up the fumble and took it in for a TD.

-Kevin

[extramundane]

Shanahan says McNabb is still our starter and it was just Rex's familiarity with two minute offense

That might make sense had Rex actually, y'know, PLAYED since pre-season, but whatever floats yer boat, Mikey. McNabb oughta be a delight the next 2 weeks. :laugh:

[WickerBill]

But Shanahan is a GENIUS!!! *







* offer only valid if he's coaching one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the league and therefore cannot tinker too much

[dando]

What an ending to Bills/Chiefs.

Nice sand wedge to win the game. KC should be ashamed that the field was in that condition this early in the season. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[EDwardo]

Nice sand wedge to win the game. KC should be ashamed that the field was in that condition this early in the season. :saywhat:

-Kevin

The field was in atrocious shape. Thats the worst I have seen it in years.

As for the wedge shot, the wind was diabolical in that end zone. Succop missed a kick earkier in overtime that looked to be right down the middle until just before going through the wind pitched it well left.

[EDwardo]

That was a really ugly helmet shot to Favres' chin. I hope he is OK.

[Methanolandbrats]

That was a really ugly helmet shot to Favres' chin. I hope he is OK.

OOOOOH, da drama..................:D

[chop456]

Benching McNabb for Grossman is the answer to a question that hasn't even been invented yet.

[Insomniac]

That might make sense had Rex actually, y'know, PLAYED since pre-season, but whatever floats yer boat, Mikey. McNabb oughta be a delight the next 2 weeks. :laugh:

Any way you slice that, either the coaching staff sucks because they couldn't prepare McNabb to run the 2 minute offense from the Spring, Training Camp, Preseason and 7 weeks of football or McNabb is incapable of learning it.

Shanahan should've just said McNabb wasn't feeling well. That's completely believable. :D

[Gnam]

49ers 2-6
Buffalo 0-7
Browns 2-5
Bungles 2-5
Denver 2-6
Cowboys 1-6
Vikings 2-5
Detroit 2-6
Carolina 1-6

Misery loves company. :p