This stupidity must stop

[cameraman]

The stewards are out of control. Today's ****wittery:


Adrian Sutil was handed a 20-seconds penalty at the end of the race, dropping him from 8th to 10th place in the results. The Force India-Mercedes driver cut Turn 7 on the opening lap and the Stewards of the Meeting condidered he gained an advantage, handing him a penalty.

An opening lap "violation" yields a post race penalty? :flame::flame:


Williams' Nico Hulkenberg was given a 20-second penalty for cutting a corner to gain an advantage on the track, when he passed Vitantonio Liuzzi's Force India on lap one of the race. Force India protested against Hulkenberg after their own driver Adrian Sutil was given a penalty.

Just bloody great now we get tit-for-tat revenge penalties after the race for lap 1 antics.

The damn race ended:
Sutil:Hulkenberg:Massa

Then it became:
Hulkenberg:Massa:Sutil

After The last round of screwing about:
Massa:Sutil:Hulkenberg

They are going to ruin F1 with this crap. I could really use a couple of the Smackforum "smilies" right now....

[Methanolandbrats]

No time to check news, that was a good race, did the stewards screw Webber too?

[cameraman]

Nope they let that one go as they should have. It was sketchy to be sure but Hamilton needed to play it safer and leave some room. He admitted he had no idea where Webber was, you don't slam the door shut if you are not sure that you are clear. You have to know that Webber will fight to the bitter end, he's been doing it for eight years now.

[WickerBill]

Shocking, giving Ferrari two extra positions.

[NismoZ]

Ah HA! A conspiracy theory! Ban all conspiracy theories! Penalize the conspiracy theorists!:p

[Methanolandbrats]

Nope they let that one go as they should have. It was sketchy to be sure but Hamilton needed to play it safer and leave some room. He admitted he had no idea where Webber was, you don't slam the door shut if you are not sure that you are clear. You have to know that Webber will fight to the bitter end, he's been doing it for eight years now.

Yup, Webber had the corner and he was turning. Had he done a Senna Harpoon Move and not turned his hands, I say 10 grid spots.

[TrueBrit]

Yup, Webber had the corner and he was turning. Had he done a Senna Harpoon Move and not turned his hands, I say 10 grid spots.

Have to disagree..Hamilton was ahead and turning in, Weber clocked him from behind.

Chocolate Jeesus should have excercised more care especially bearing in mind whom he was dealing with, but I think it was a case of 60/40 Dickhead/Jeebus for the blame apportionment...

[Methanolandbrats]

Have to disagree..Hamilton was ahead and turning in, Weber clocked him from behind.

Chocolate Jeesus should have excercised more care especially bearing in mind whom he was dealing with, but I think it was a case of 60/40 Dickhead/Jeebus for the blame apportionment...

Hamilton was off-line and turned into Webber's car. Webber was on the apex. Hamilton turned his left rear wheel into Webbers right front. What's Webber supposed to do, just park cause it's Jeebus next to him? You are not "ahead" when you try to pass on the outside.

[WickerBill]

To his defense, Hamilton's spotter, Bubba, said "clear".

(He wasn't clear of Webber and didn't have the apex, he deserved what he got)

[opinionated ow]

Have to disagree..Hamilton was ahead and turning in, Weber clocked him from behind.

Chocolate Jeesus should have excercised more care especially bearing in mind whom he was dealing with, but I think it was a case of 60/40 Dickhead/Jeebus for the blame apportionment...

I'm with you on that one. Hamilton is a genital tip, but Webber is a phallus infused cranium and acted like such. Hamilton had him beat.

[Methanolandbrats]

I'm with you on that one. Hamilton is a genital tip, but Webber is a phallus infused cranium and acted like such. Hamilton had him beat.

No way, Hamilton was on the outside and had two choices, turn in and hope or drive it into the wall. I guess everyone should just park and have a cup of tea when they see Pope Ron's alter boy next to them. :shakehead

[oddlycalm]

Agreed on the 1st lap penalties. ****wittery indeed.

The Webber / Hamilton dustup ended as it should; no interference from the stewards and Hamilton cooling down before speaking to the media. Webber was uncharacteristically lucky that his tire didn't go down and end his day.


Autosport: Evaluation by Bridgestone showed that the collision with Hamilton had pushed the tyre off its normal mounting on the rim. There was approximately 5mm left between the inner edge of the rim and the tyre

oc

[Trevor Longman]

Concerning the actual finish of the race though, I would say it was a great finish. I thought with 2 to go that Vettel had no shot at him but when they showed them both at the start of the final lap and he was right there with loads of traffic in front of them I really thought he could have had him there. One more lap and he would've gotten him. They had that entire Massa/Hulkenburg/Sutil freight train in front and while Massa probably would've moved over for his teammate, I couldn't see the other two doing that with the two of them so close together. Good finish none the less but I would have liked to see Vettel get him at the end.

[chop456]

If Vettel drives in a straight line at the start and lets Alonso hit him, is he charged with not avoiding an incident under FIA/Ferrari rules?

[oddlycalm]

One more lap and he would've gotten him.
Hard to say with Vettel. You think he would have passed him or gone for the clean kill like he did at Spa...? :D

oc

[STD]

No way, Hamilton was on the outside and had two choices, turn in and hope or drive it into the wall. I guess everyone should just park and have a cup of tea when they see Pope Ron's alter boy next to them. :shakehead

I'm pretty sure if it was anyone else, or at least the roles reversed, the term "chop" would have come into play. :rofl:

[NismoZ]

Stupidity abounds! Drivers, Stewards, Crews..isn't ANYone doing their job to perfection anymore!? (besides Alonso:p)

[racer2c]

My head is still spinning from watching that damn race. I couldn't tell one corner from the next and the zoom camera work along with the sweeping from the skyscrapers down to the track almost made me lose my coffee and beignets. Cool looking city though. I'd like to go if I was sure they wouldn't cane me.

[Hard Driver]

Hamilton was off-line and turned into Webber's car. Webber was on the apex. Hamilton turned his left rear wheel into Webbers right front. What's Webber supposed to do, just park cause it's Jeebus next to him? You are not "ahead" when you try to pass on the outside.

Look, somethimes you have to cede the corner. This is one where Webber was beat, and he had an very unrealistic expectation if he though that Hamilton would drive around the outside and give it to him when he was so far past. If they went into the corner side by side, OK.

But when you are that far back, webber should have known that the options were cede the corner or wreck, and he choose wreck. He is just lucky it was not him that was taken out.

[TrueBrit]

Hamilton turned his left rear wheel into Webbers right front. You are not "ahead" when you try to pass on the outside.

Just mulling over that sentence and trying to make it make sense...

So what you're saying is that even though Hamilton's REAR wheel made contact with Webber's FRONT wheel, Hamilton wasn't actually ahead...The only conclusion to draw from that is that Jeebus was going round the circuit backwards..???

*takes off alternate universe hat*

Of course he was bloody "ahead" of him! How the hell did Jesus de Chocolat get punched up the backside if he wasn't IN FRONTof the 'roo-kicking bastard??

[Methanolandbrats]

Just mulling over that sentence and trying to make it make sense...

So what you're saying is that even though Hamilton's REAR wheel made contact with Webber's FRONT wheel, Hamilton wasn't actually ahead...The only conclusion to draw from that is that Jeebus was going round the circuit backwards..???

*takes off alternate universe hat*

Of course he was bloody "ahead" of him! How the hell did Jesus de Chocolat get punched up the backside if he wasn't IN FRONTof the 'roo-kicking bastard??

Webber was on the apex and slowed enough to go around the corner. Webber did not understeer wide. Hamilton tried to go around the outside and turned into Webber. Now if Hamilton had any ****ing brains he would have known where Webber was and stayed wide, but no, in typical Hamilton fashion he ****ed up trying to close the door too early. The only person on the grid dumber than Hamilton is Sebastian "what do those big red numbers two feet from my face mean" Vettel.

[TrueBrit]

Webber was on the apex and slowed enough to go around the corner. Webber did not understeer wide. Hamilton tried to go around the outside and turned into Webber. Now if Hamilton had any ****ing brains he would have known where Webber was and stayed wide, but no, in typical Hamilton fashion he ****ed up trying to close the door too early. The only person on the grid dumber than Hamilton is Sebastian "what do those big red numbers two feet from my face mean" Vettel.

....sorry but Webber was nowhere near the apex when Hamilton was ahead of him...jesus was clearly ahead of him and was turning into the corner...Webber chose to run into him instead of conceding the corner...sort of like Vettel did to him in Turkey...still like to hear your explanation as to how Markus Biggus Dickus used his front wheel to hit Darkus Maximus on the rear wheel if Darkus wasn't, you know, ahead of him....

[Methanolandbrats]

Maybe this will help. This is rear of an F1 car http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules/ew_filemanager/08content/f1/renault/launch/r28-rear-635.jpg

This is the side http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules/ew_filemanager/08content/f1/ferrari/launch/side2-619.jpg Your boy did not get hit in the "rear".

Your boy chopped Webber, I would live to hear your opinion of events if Hamilton was on the inside and Schumacher had been outside. Probably would have been a different situation, eh? :)

[Indy]

Some of you are clearly right about this, and the rest of you are bloody bogans. :laugh:

[opinionated ow]

Some of you are clearly right about this, and the rest of you are bloody bogans. :laugh:

Are we 'strayanising you Indy?

[Methanolandbrats]

Some of you are clearly right about this, and the rest of you are bloody bogans. :laugh:

Don't call TrueBrit names, it's not nice :D

[Insomniac]

Webber was on the apex and slowed enough to go around the corner. Webber did not understeer wide. Hamilton tried to go around the outside and turned into Webber. Now if Hamilton had any ****ing brains he would have known where Webber was and stayed wide, but no, in typical Hamilton fashion he ****ed up trying to close the door too early. The only person on the grid dumber than Hamilton is Sebastian "what do those big red numbers two feet from my face mean" Vettel.

I'd say the brains logic applies to Webber too. He could've just as easily had his front suspension snapped by not ceding the corner to a car that was ahead of him.

From my perspective it was a racing incident. Either side could've backed off to avoid a collision, but that would make them crappy drivers. It also would've been smart if you're thinking about the championship.

[G.]

My head is still spinning from watching that damn race. I couldn't tell one corner from the next and the zoom camera work along with the sweeping from the skyscrapers down to the track almost made me lose my coffee and beignets. Cool looking city though. I'd like to go if I was sure they wouldn't cane me.

I yelled at my sister for not attending last years Singapore race.

She went this time. (waiting for photos)

[NismoZ]

(speaking of bogans, and sometimes bloody) Just ask Paul Tracy if you want the absolute truth.

[WickerBill]

For the millionth time, you have to complete the pass. It doesn't matter if one driver's nose is in front, it matters if he can get to the apex or not. Had that corner been a right-hander, there's no accident, because Hammy would have had it. Instead, he tried to put his car in a spot that was occupied. Nobody fighting for position, be it a championship contender or not, should back out when they have their nose alongside another car and own the apex.

[TrueBrit]

For the millionth time, you have to complete the pass. It doesn't matter if one driver's nose is in front, it matters if he can get to the apex or not. Had that corner been a right-hander, there's no accident, because Hammy would have had it. Instead, he tried to put his car in a spot that was occupied. Nobody fighting for position, be it a championship contender or not, should back out when they have their nose alongside another car and own the apex.

To be clear, the Webber v Vettel wreck at Turkey was Webber's fault then, yes?

[Methanolandbrats]

To be clear, the Webber v Vettel wreck at Turkey was Webber's fault then, yes?

Nope, Vettel outbraked himself and lurched right.

[cameraman]

You guys have forced me to go back to the DVR and look at it again in slow motion.:laugh:

Things I noticed looking at it a few times, Webber was way off line to the inside approaching the corner, the better part of two car widths. The normal line was nicely highlighted by the five cars trailing our two protagonists. Hamilton was exactly on the normal line, Webber's line was highly optimistic and he was about 2 feet short of being even (and more importantly 20 feet to the inside) with Hamilton when he stomped on the brakes. Hamilton braked at the normal point and was on the normal line. That put them on intersecting courses at about a 45° angle.

There was no way on earth that Hamilton could have known that Webber was there and he was probably under the impression that Webber had fallen in behind him in order for Webber to also make the corner in any kind of a normal shape. Webber was in a bit of a red mist, most likely concentrating on the apex to his left not the approaching car on his right.:rolleyes: Exactly where Webber was planning on going with that tight an approach to that corner is anyone's guess but he would have been all crossed up for the following corner had the collision not occurred.

It was a racing incident, I really can't fault Hamilton given how far offline Webber was, a driver would have to be nuts to be there. Which you might expect coming from Webber and it was most definitely not the brightest move in his career.

Did Hamilton chop Webber? Upon further review, most definitely not. Racing luck was not with Mr Hamilton last weekend.

The final result is a clear case of better lucky than good.

[racer2c]

You guys have forced me to go back to the DVR and look at it again in slow motion.:laugh:

Things I noticed looking at it a few times, Webber was way off line to the inside approaching the corner, the better part of two car widths. The normal line was nicely highlighted by the five cars trailing our two protagonists. Hamilton was exactly on the normal line, Webber's line was highly optimistic and he was about 2 feet short of being even (and more importantly 20 feet to the inside) with Hamilton when he stomped on the brakes. Hamilton braked at the normal point and was on the normal line. That put them on intersecting courses at about a 45° angle.

There was no way on earth that Hamilton could have known that Webber was there and he was probably under the impression that Webber had fallen in behind him in order for Webber to also make the corner in any kind of a normal shape. Webber was in a bit of a red mist, most likely concentrating on the apex to his left not the approaching car on his right.:rolleyes: Exactly where Webber was planning on going with that tight an approach to that corner is anyone's guess but he would have been all crossed up for the following corner had the collision not occurred.

It was a racing incident, I really can't fault Hamilton given how far offline Webber was, a driver would have to be nuts to be there. Which you might expect coming from Webber and it was most definitely not the brightest move in his career.

Did Hamilton chop Webber? Upon further review, most definitely not. Racing luck was not with Mr Hamilton last weekend.

The final result is a clear case of better lucky than good.

That's the way I remember it too. Nice recap.

[TrueBrit]

Nope, Vettel outbraked himself and lurched right.

Uh---okay...I'm going to put that down to you having drowned your sorrows from last night's thrilling loss to DA BEARSSSSSSSSS and being able to see straight..;)

[Methanolandbrats]

You guys have forced me to go back to the DVR and look at it again in slow motion.:laugh:

Things I noticed looking at it a few times, Webber was way off line to the inside approaching the corner, the better part of two car widths. The normal line was nicely highlighted by the five cars trailing our two protagonists. Hamilton was exactly on the normal line, Webber's line was highly optimistic and he was about 2 feet short of being even (and more importantly 20 feet to the inside) with Hamilton when he stomped on the brakes. Hamilton braked at the normal point and was on the normal line. That put them on intersecting courses at about a 45° angle.

There was no way on earth that Hamilton could have known that Webber was there and he was probably under the impression that Webber had fallen in behind him in order for Webber to also make the corner in any kind of a normal shape. Webber was in a bit of a red mist, most likely concentrating on the apex to his left not the approaching car on his right.:rolleyes: Exactly where Webber was planning on going with that tight an approach to that corner is anyone's guess but he would have been all crossed up for the following corner had the collision not occurred.

It was a racing incident, I really can't fault Hamilton given how far offline Webber was, a driver would have to be nuts to be there. Which you might expect coming from Webber and it was most definitely not the brightest move in his career.

Did Hamilton chop Webber? Upon further review, most definitely not. Racing luck was not with Mr Hamilton last weekend.

The final result is a clear case of better lucky than good.

I must respectfully disagree with the honorable gentleman from Utah, :gomer: Of course Hamilton did not know Webber was there, the entire track belongs to him at any time, Uncle Ron has told him that since he was a toddler. And where was Webber planning on going?......the podium :D Yes it was a racing incident which is why Danny did not drop the hammer on Webber. You see, I'm objective, I don't like either one of them. The only current driver I like is Button because he rejects Green ******** and wants big front tires and 1000 hp :thumbup: I lke that boy. :D Edit...I like Bob too, hope he ends up in a decent car.

[BarillaGirl]

I'm weighing in on this as a racing incident. Unless Webber was out of contention for the championship — which he isn't — Hamilton should not have assumed Mark would lift off and cede the position. He's too busy racing — plus, he's been around a long time with a solid reputation for being hard to pass even in years when he wasn't in the top five.

If that had been a complete pass, there would not have been contact. If you're determined to take the outside line in a pass, you may have to actually drive further before coming back across to be in front.

[WickerBill]

If Hamilton is in the racing line, how do you expect Webber to be anywhere but off the racing line? Or are you saying that drivers shouldn't race, and should immediately drop back and get in single file?

I'll go for the idea that Hamilton didn't know Webber was there. In that case, racing accident. But I won't concede that Webber should have fallen behind Hamilton like a gimp instead of racing.

[racer2c]

If Hamilton is in the racing line, how do you expect Webber to be anywhere but off the racing line? Or are you saying that drivers shouldn't race, and should immediately drop back and get in single file?



That's the way they do it in the IRL!!! ;)

[cameraman]

Hamilton did not leave Webber enough room no matter how the pass was set up. There was half a car width between Hamilton and the apex when there normally would be none but half = collision. So blame Hamilton EXCEPT that Webber was so far to the inside that he would have had to run wide to make the corner. Hamilton would have had to have left him a ridiculous amount of room for that collision not to have occurred. No one would have left another driver that much room. So blame Webber.

In the end, blame both.

Hamilton took it too tight, Webber took it too wide. Bang.

[Indy]

I think you are all missing the point. Somehow or another, this is all Schumacher's fault. Just because.

[BarillaGirl]

I think you are all missing the point. Somehow or another, this is all Schumacher's fault. Just because.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[NismoZ]

Bush's fault.

[SteveH]

CART's fault.

[Methanolandbrats]

If Tony George had not ****ed up AOW, either Webber or Hamilton would be in CART and therefore there would have been no accident, so it's Tony George's fault.

[SteveH]

whew, glad we got that cleared up

F:tony:

[Indy]

Ah, yes, definitely the Inheritard's fault. Isn't everything?

[cameraman]

There can be no doubt.
F:gomer:

[Methanolandbrats]

Now that it's all sorted out, on to Japan. The thought of these guys going through 130r together is a little bit spooky :eek:

[Opposite Lock]

I must respectfully disagree with the honorable gentleman from Utah, :gomer: Of course Hamilton did not know Webber was there, the entire track belongs to him at any time, Uncle Ron has told him that since he was a toddler. And where was Webber planning on going?......the podium :D Yes it was a racing incident which is why Danny did not drop the hammer on Webber. [mild edit] I like [edit] Button because he rejects Green ******** and wants big front tires and 1000 hp :thumbup: I like that boy. :D Edit...I like Bob too, hope he ends up in a decent car.


I'm weighing in on this as a racing incident. Unless Webber was out of contention for the championship — which he isn't — Hamilton should not have assumed Mark would lift off and cede the position. He's too busy racing — plus, he's been around a long time with a solid reputation for being hard to pass even in years when he wasn't in the top five.

If that had been a complete pass, there would not have been contact. If you're determined to take the outside line in a pass, you may have to actually drive further before coming back across to be in front.

I agree with both of these posts. :thumbup:

And I used to be a full-fledged Hammy fanboi. Btw, Bob showed the proper way to make an outside pass in the same corner (on Sutil, iirc), a few laps later.

Excellent season, no matter how you slice it.:)