For Civil War Aficionados

[Napoleon]

Of course just a few days ago it was the 150th anniversary of the election of Abraham Lincoln, and so we are about to experience over the next few years the 150th anniversary of all of the events that make up the American Civil War.

Since about November 1st the New York Times has been running on its “Opinionator” on line blog adjunct to its printed paper a day by day posting which discusses that day’s events, well, except 150 years after the fact, by various authors and historians who are knowledgeable about the Civil War. It has been very fascinating, kind of a slow read 1300-1400 installment (or whatever it will work out to) story about the Civil War (but I was a college history major with my concentration in modern American history, i.e., Civil War and after, so maybe I am just a geek for stuff like this).

Anyways here is the link for those interested in this kind of thing: Disunion (http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/category/disunion/)

[extramundane]

Thanks for the heads-up- I'm always curious to read other perspectives on the Civil War. Given that the most prominent pieces of public art hereabouts are 50ft+ marble likenesses of Lee, Davis, Jackson & Stuart, you can imagine that the local perspective tends to be a tad one-sided.

[Indy]

Thanks for the link. Understanding our divided country 150 years ago is key to understanding our currently divided country.

[Napoleon]

Thanks for the heads-up- I'm always curious to read other perspectives on the Civil War. Given that the most prominent pieces of public art hereabouts are 50ft+ marble likenesses of Lee, Davis, Jackson & Stuart, you can imagine that the local perspective tends to be a tad one-sided.

What, no statues of Longstreet? (just joking, I happened to visit Gettysburg the week after they put up a statue of Longstreet, the first one that was put up for him - read the back story of why at that time).

[oddlycalm]

You can give 10,000 guns to 10,000 Gamecocks and still harbor hope for a peaceful resolution, but once the mademoiselles have forsworn the vision of new shoes, Caesar has crossed the Rubicon.
Nice turn of phrase.

oc

[Napoleon]

Apparently the NY Times is not the only one that had an idea like this. Here is site doing a news aggregation of the news of 150 years ago:

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/civilwar/

[nrc]

http://www.sc.edu/library/socar/images/im99spr/teal.jpg

[TKGAngel]

HBO is developing a mini-series on the Civil War. They're apparently attempting to sign NASCAR drivers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/Carl-Edwards-to-appear-in-HBO-miniseries-To-App?urn=nascar-298212) to fulfill some roles. Carl Edwards has already signed on to play a Confederate general.

I have a feeling this will not be Band of Brothers or The Pacific in terms of quality.

[Napoleon]

I have a feeling this will not be Band of Brothers or The Pacific in terms of quality.

How about F-Troop?

[dando]

HBO is developing a mini-series on the Civil War. They're apparently attempting to sign NASCAR drivers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/Carl-Edwards-to-appear-in-HBO-miniseries-To-App?urn=nascar-298212) to fulfill some roles. Carl Edwards has already signed on to play a Confederate general.

I have a feeling this will not be Band of Brothers or The Pacific in terms of quality.

:saywhat: :thumdown:

One only needs the Ken Burns pan and scan doco. :thumbup:

-Kevin

[G.]

HBO is developing a mini-series on the Civil War. They're apparently attempting to sign NASCAR drivers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/Carl-Edwards-to-appear-in-HBO-miniseries-To-App?urn=nascar-298212) to fulfill some roles. Carl Edwards has already signed on to play a Confederate general.

I have a feeling this will not be Band of Brothers or The Pacific in terms of quality.
****. South's gonna win this time, innit.

[Don Quixote]

I can see it now. The south wins a battle and Carl Edwards does a backflip off his horse. :gomer:

[Ed_Severson]

I have a feeling this will not be Band of Brothers or The Pacific in terms of quality.

Likely not.

On a side note, I finally got to actually see The Pacific via Netflix a couple weeks ago. Solid stuff. Afterwards I read one of the memoirs that it was based on, With the Old Breed by Eugene Sledge. It was a great read.

Up next will be Robert Leckie's Helmet for My Pillow.

[Indy]

****. South's gonna win this time, innit.

Word on the street is the good ol' boys seal the deal by invading Indy and using the morAns in charge there to split the Union into two camps.

Why does this sound familiar to me? :gomer:

[Methanolandbrats]

Edwards will probably ride up behind somebody and knock their horse into a tree.

[pchall]

Will the Princess Permapout don crinolines and play the Scarlet O'Hara role?

[Napoleon]

Well since my original post I have religiously keep up with the Disunion blog at the NY Times website. It has been very good.

150 years ago today the Battle of Gettysburg opened, which would conclude 2 days from now, on the same day Vicksburg would fall to Grant, and in the same time period as Maj. Gen. William S. Rosecrans army in Tenn would add a 3rd great victory over the Confederates, making it all but inevitable that the Union would survive.

[stroker]

We can recreate the spectacle but we can't recreate the carnage. It'll never be "real"...

:(

[nrc]

Well since my original post I have religiously keep up with the Disunion blog at the NY Times website. It has been very good.

150 years ago today the Battle of Gettysburg opened, which would conclude 2 days from now, on the same day Vicksburg would fall to Grant, and in the same time period as Maj. Gen. William S. Rosecrans army in Tenn would add a 3rd great victory over the Confederates, making it all but inevitable that the Union would survive.

We watched a little of the CSPAN coverage the other day.

I'm not sure that "inevitable" is the right term. It was certainly the Union's war to lose at that point.

I just finished Grant's memoir - highly recommended along with Sherman's.

[Gnam]

150 years is just a drop in the bucket historically, but in terms of American History it's forever. The summer of 1863 is as far removed from our own time as the Civil War soldiers were from the year 1713. At that time, all the states were still English colonies, Ben Franklin was 7, and the Alamo hadn't even been built.

[Napoleon]

I'm not sure that "inevitable" is the right term.

That is why I qualified it with weasel words.

;)

[dando]

A couple of links I sent Elmo's way the other day (he just visited Gburg):

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/travel/gettysburg-anniversary

It ain't over 'til the fat state sings:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/150-years-later-two-states-are-still-fighting-over-the-battle-of-gettysburg-20130628

-Kevin

[emjaya]

Photo's from the 50th anniversary.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2013/jul/01/civil-war-gettysburg-anniversary-pictures

[Napoleon]

The Park Service has a cam set up looking over the field where Pickett's Charge was made. For anyone who has never been there it is impossible to look over and not think how nuts it was to launch that charge.

http://www.earthcam.com/usa/pennsylvania/gettysburg/

[Gnam]

Years later, when asked why his charge at Gettysburg failed, General Pickett replied:

"I've always thought the Yankees had something to do with it."

know your Pickett's Charge.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2uhxufm.jpg (http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/gettysburg/maps/picketts-charge-gettysburg.jpg)

[Napoleon]

^^^

Gnam, that site you got the battle map from has lots of great stuff, including the retreat battle map of Pickett's Charge and a litle film/moveable map feature.

[Elmo T]

The Park Service has a cam set up looking over the field where Pickett's Charge was made. For anyone who has never been there it is impossible to look over and not think how nuts it was to launch that charge.

The same can be said for pretty much the entire battlefield. :(

It really helps to get away from tour groups, walk the fields, walk out from the Confederate line towards the Emmitsburg Road. The field slopes away and then back up towards the fences along the Emmitsburg Road - even moreso towards the angle.

Emmo always asks about whether we are in an area occupied by the good guys or the bad. I have to explain again that there weren't good or bad - just brave soldiers.

[G.]

The same can be said for pretty much the entire battlefield. :(

It really helps to get away from tour groups, walk the fields, walk out from the Confederate line towards the Emmitsburg Road.


About 10 years ago, I was out there for a PITA road-trip. I decided to do something for me, and drive the wife, eldest and the then-baby to Gburg, just to see what was there. It was cold, 2 little ones, not the best timing, but I followed the signs for the car tour. You drive short distances to walking areas to see in a chronological order (somewhat) the developing battle.

I highly recommend it. Maybe I was desperate for entertainment. :D Just about everything has a marker. The signs walk you through this tiny skirmish (with stone markers showing where each end of the soldiers' lines were), and explain how it built over the couple of days into what we know as the Battle of Gettysburg.

It's hard to describe without sounding over-the-top, but the tour just builds and builds into a crescendo.



Double canister at 10 yards, indeed. (http://www.gettysburg.stonesentinels.com/PhotoGallery/Bronze-NY_1Independent.php)

[nrc]

Missy & I took a several vacations once upon a time where we visited battlefields in different parts of the country. There are lots of places where it's sobering to consider advancing in the face of volleys of musket and cannon fire but Gettysburg was the most harrowing example. It's no wonder that the latter part of the war started to look like trench warfare.

[NismoZ]

Speaking of which...Vicksburg. Zig-zag trenches being dug, under fire, toward Confederate high ground. No massed charge even contemplated! Huge rolling balls of branches, brush and limbs were pushed ahead of the diggers as a shield until direct fire could be laid down...mere FEET from defending positions. If any of you were impressed by a visit to Gettysburg, you MUST see Vicksburg! Just head-shaking history. Immense civilian suffering as well. A real foreshadowing of WWl events.:shakehead

[SteveH]

Only have been to Antietam which was quite sobering. Then a side trip to the Antietam National Cemetery in Sharpsburg.

from wiki


The battle was over by 5:30 p.m. Losses for the day were heavy on both sides. The Union had 12,401 casualties with 2,108 dead. Confederate casualties were 10,318 with 1,546 dead. This represented 25% of the Federal force and 31% of the Confederate.[3] More Americans died in battle on September 17, 1862, than on any other day in the nation's military history.[63] Several generals died as a result of the battle, including Maj. Gens. Joseph K. Mansfield and Israel B. Richardson and Brig. Gen. Isaac P. Rodman on the Union side (all mortally wounded), and Brig. Gens. Lawrence O. Branch and William E. Starke on the Confederate side (killed).[64] Brigadier General George B. Anderson got shot in the ankle during the defense of the Bloody Lane. He survived the battle wounded but later on in October he died after the inevitable amputation.

[RaceGrrl]

Visiting the site of the Andersonville POW camp was another eye opening trip.

[TravelGal]

To inject a slightly lighter moment: Whilst whiling away the morning in the doctor's office for my annual physical, I was reading the new brochure for the American Queen Steamboat Company. They have several offerings with Civil War themes. Having read this thread before I left, I noted in particular that Vicksburg is included. There is one sailing in particular that is solely focussed on the Civil War. If you choose this method of seeing those places, you will truly feel a part of the era. I took this boat up the Ohio last year (on a baseball-themed cruise) and felt transported to another time.

[G.]

Only have been to Antietam which was quite sobering. Then a side trip to the Antietam National Cemetery in Sharpsburg.

from wiki

these animated maps are pretty :thumbup: (http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/antietam/maps/antietam-animated-map.html)

[Napoleon]

150 years ago today, after Lt. Gen. U.S. Grant's troops begin breaking winter camp on March 29th, the opening battle of Grant's Appomattox Campaign gets underway with the Battle of Dinwiddie Court House. Notable Union commanders, Maj. Gen Philip Sheridan and Brig. Gen Geo. Custer and CSA Maj. Gen. Geo. Pickett.

[Gnam]

http://s1.postimg.org/s7d0li0cv/1280px_The_Peacemakers_1868.jpg

The Peacemakers is an 1868 painting by George P.A. Healy. It depicts the historic March 28, 1865, strategy session by the Union high command on the steamer River Queen during the final days of the American Civil War. The original was destroyed by fire, but a copy hangs in the White House.


Grant, Sherman, and Lincoln, joined by and Rear Admiral David Dixon Porter, met again on the River Queen. The generals outlined their strategies and told Lincoln they anticipated the need for one more campaign, although Lincoln expressed his hope that much further bloodshed could be avoided. This was the only conference at which Lincoln conferred with his top military officers about post-war policies. Admiral Porter made notes that night in which he recorded that Lincoln wanted the Confederates to be let go and treated liberally. Porter quoted Lincoln as saying that his only desire was for "those people to return to their allegiance to the Union and submit to the laws." Lincoln also indicated that he did not want the generals making political settlements with the Confederates.

God Bless America. But, Lincoln will do in a pinch.

[nrc]

This was a key point in our history. The book April 1865: The Month That Saved America (http://www.amazon.com/April-1865-Month-Saved-America/dp/0060899689) does an excellent job of covering all the factors that were in play during that time that could have turned our history in very different directions.

The meeting between Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman was fateful because it was there that Lincoln impressed upon them that he wanted a merciful peace. Admiral Porter said this in his account of the meeting:


I don't know what the President would have done had he been left to himself, and had our army been unsuccessful, but he was than wrought up to a high state of excitement. He wanted peace on almost any terms, and there is no knowing what proposals he might have been willing to listen to. His heart was tenderness throughout, and, as long as the rebels laid down their arms, he did not care how it was done.

This sent Sherman down a path that led to a feud with Secretary of War Stanton when his terms for General Johnston's surrender exceeded his authority. When Sherman sent the terms for approval Stanton tried to remove him from command and launched a smear campaign against him.

[dando]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/04/14/lincolns-funeral-route-to-be-retraced.html