Rep. Gabrielle Giffords Shot in Arizona.

[JoeBob]

I don't want this to be political, Rep Gabrielle Giffords was shot today in Arizona.

The media have been reporting that Rep Giffords's husband is Astronaut Mark Kelly, currently scheduled to command STS-134. What they haven't said is that Mark's twin brother Scott is is also an astronaut. He is currently in space serving as Commander on board the International Space Station.

All three are active on Twitter, I can only hope that Scott, on board the ISS, isn't getting his news from Twitter. Follow all three:
Rep Giffords: http://www.twitter.com/rep_giffords
Mark Kelly: http://www.twitter.com/shuttleCDRkelly
Scott Kelly: http://www.twitter.com/stationCDRkelly

I can't imagine what that family is going through right now. My thoughts and prayers are with them all.

[devilmaster]

Originally NPR reported she had been killed along with 6 others. Cnn confirmed its own source....

However, conflicting reports say she is still in surgery....

Assassin is reported in custody.

[Insomniac]

Someone (an employee there) for the hospital said on CNN she had a gunshot wound to the head and was in surgery.

It's pretty messed up how the news was so off. Her dead along with 6 others to (currently) no fatalities.

[nrc]

Terrible news. Thoughts and prayers for all the victims and their families.

[SteveH]

CNN just reported 18 were shot with 6 dead. Sad day.

[devilmaster]

Federal Judge John Roll is being reported as one of the killed.

[Insomniac]

Neurosurgeons are done with surgery and the doctor said he's very optimistic with her recovery. Shot in one side of the head through and through. Can't say anything about her prognosis.

[cameraman]

That does not jive with physics or physiology. Gotta wonder where the bullet really went or what her condition really is.

[nrc]

That does not jive with physics or physiology. Gotta wonder where the bullet really went or what her condition really is.

That was direct from the head of trauma at the hospital so I see no reason why he'd be anything other than truthful. A clean shot through one side of the head is survivable in the lucky event that no major vessels are severed. Remember that James Brady survived a shot to the head in the Reagan assassination attempt.

A nine year old child is among the dead. Senseless.

[devilmaster]

The picture that is coming out now of Jared Lee Loughner is one that has some serious mental issues.

A myspace page(since taken down) had the accused describing himself with everything in the past tense, and included mein kampf and the communist manifesto among books he 'used to like'.

There is a youtube page with videos purported to be his that have some serious ramblings and absolutes that gives one the impression of imbalance, yet knowledge of his impending actions. I believe he also expected to die in the attempt.

I will not embed the videos (although every other website is) and leave you the link instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4&feature=player_embedded#!

[cameraman]

That was direct from the head of trauma at the hospital so I see no reason why he'd be anything other than truthful. A clean shot through one side of the head is survivable in the lucky event that no major vessels are severed. Remember that James Brady survived a shot to the head in the Reagan assassination attempt.

James Brady survived, he did not in any way recover.

[TKGAngel]

Neurosurgeons are done with surgery and the doctor said he's very optimistic with her recovery. Shot in one side of the head through and through. Can't say anything about her prognosis.

CNN said the shot went in the temple and out the forehead.

House leadership has also suspended votes on pending legislation for the upcoming week out of respect for Congresswoman Giffords.

[swift]

Terrible news. Thoughts and prayers for all the victims and their families.
^ agreed. :(

[devilmaster]

Now they are looking for a person of interest... possible 2nd person with Loughner today....

[cameraman]

The 9-year-old who was shot at the event and later died at a hospital went to the Giffords event with a neighbor because she had just been elected to the student council and was interested in government:shakehead

[IlliniRacer]

Nine year old girl was the granddaughter of former Phillies manager and Cubs GM Dallas Green - Dallas Green's granddaughter dies in Arizona shooting (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Dallas-Green-s-granddaughter-dies-in-Arizona-sho?urn=mlb-305133)

[EVL29]

And she was born on September 11,2001.

[Insomniac]

That does not jive with physics or physiology. Gotta wonder where the bullet really went or what her condition really is.

Not sure what you mean by that? It may not've been clear, but I did not take that to mean the bullet went in and out of the same location, but the part of the head it traveled through was all on one side (hemisphere). That doesn't seem to defy physics in any way.

[Insomniac]

Politico reported last night that she was awake and recognized her husband. Unfortunately, it seems like people like to provide very inaccurate information or people don't care to try and verify. The hospital says she is sedated. Most of us here probably assume that after all we learned about head/brain trauma after the Cristiano da Matta accident.

[stroker]

James Brady survived, he did not in any way recover.

Good point.

[racer2c]

It's a gunshot to the head! A quick google shows of the ~20,000 gunshot to the head victims each year, 5% survive, 3% recover. I'm praying she is in the 3%. I'm watching a live press conference from her surgeons. They are "cautiously optimistic" on survival , but of course it's a long road ahead. Hang in there Gabrielle! Thoughts and prayers. What a horrible tragedy. :(

[Gnam]

:(

Reports say he shot Rep Giffords first, then turned on the crowd. Gutless coward. :mad:

[Indy]

So sad. I am just crushed by this.

I hope we will all take the time and reflect on this event and its relationship to violent rhetoric and absolute political positions. From what I have seen so far it is not clear whether this guy was right wing, left wing, or just very sick and confused. What is clear is that someone prone to violence received the right (wrong) stimuli and the result was badly broken lives.

Never mind the politics, just shun the instigators of violence. Yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater is NOT protected speech.

[datachicane]

So sad. I am just crushed by this.

I hope we will all take the time and reflect on this event and its relationship to violent rhetoric and absolute political positions. From what I have seen so far it is not clear whether this guy was right wing, left wing, or just very sick and confused. What is clear is that someone prone to violence received the right (wrong) stimuli and the result was badly broken lives.

Never mind the politics, just shun the instigators of violence. Yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater is NOT protected speech.

Well put, sad as it is that it has to be said at all. :(

[nrc]

So sad. I am just crushed by this.

I hope we will all take the time and reflect on this event and its relationship to violent rhetoric and absolute political positions. From what I have seen so far it is not clear whether this guy was right wing, left wing, or just very sick and confused. What is clear is that someone prone to violence received the right (wrong) stimuli and the result was badly broken lives.

Never mind the politics, just shun the instigators of violence. Yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater is NOT protected speech.

Right now there's nothing that ties this lunatic's actions to rhetoric from any mainstream political group or movement. He's simply a sick human being, just like John Hinkley and Mark Champman.

That's about as far as we're going to allow political discussion of this event to go.

[SurfaceUnits]

well, isn\'t that special, facts arent allowed around here. John Stossel and his anti big government rants doesn\'t help the situation

[nrc]

well, isn\'t that special, facts arent allowed around here. John Stossel and his anti big government rants doesn\'t help the situation

Political discussion is not allowed here and never has been.

[Methanolandbrats]

Political discussion is not allowed here and never has been.

LOck this, nothing good can come of it.

[KLang]

My sympathy to the families of those involved.

My disgust for those trying to score political points from this tragedy.

[gjc2]

My sympathy to the families of those involved.

My disgust for those trying to score political points from this tragedy.

My thoughts exactly.

[nrc]

Ok, we don't need to go down that road either.

Something we can safely talk about: Bill Badger, Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zimudie tackled Loughner as he tried to reload. 61 year old Patricia Maisch helped wrestle away his fresh magazine. Badger is a 74-year-old retired army colonel. Their bravery probably saved multiple lives.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/patricia-maisch-describes-stopping-gunman-reloading/story?id=12577933

[trish]

I hadn't heard anything about him trying to reload. Good that those people stepped up. I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to do the same.

[cameraman]

The woman grabbed an extended clip away from the shooter. It contained 31 rounds. It could have been far worse than it was.

[cameraman]

43 years later on and it still fits.

uQjAR7mOvgc

That was an impromptu speech given in Indianapolis the day after MLK was assassinated. Eight minutes long, it wouldn't happen today:shakehead

[Napoleon]

That was an impromptu speech given in Indianapolis the day after MLK was assassinated.

Not only impromptu but by someone who actually was not that good of a public speaker. Robert was an extremely different person with an extremely different skill set then his brother John. John was a natural speaker and politician. Robert, not so much.

So that tells you something about where that speech came from in Robert.

[Indy]

Brilliant, thank you for posting that.

[Gnam]

Glad to hear doctors say Rep Giffords will be okay. :thumbup:
Hopefully she has no memory of the incident.

[cameraman]

Ya know I'm not a fan of the death penalty but these Westboro Baptist Church ****wits would top my list:flame:

[Methanolandbrats]

Ya know I'm not a fan of the death penalty but these Westboro Baptist Church ****wits would top my list:flame:

I was thinking the cops should just wade in with billy clubs, mace, dogs, kicks to the nuts, whatever..........those ****ers would never show up again.

[SteveH]

Ya know I'm not a fan of the death penalty but these Westboro Baptist Church ****wits would top my list:flame:

then you will enjoy this, I did :thumbup:


Westboro protesters face jeers and slashed tires

.....Shortly after finishing their protest at the funeral of Army Sgt. Jason James McCluskey of McAlester, a half-dozen protesters from Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kan., headed to their minivan, only to discover that its front and rear passenger-side tires had been slashed.

To make matters worse, as their minivan slowly hobbled away on two flat tires, with a McAlester police car following behind, the protesters were unable to find anyone in town who would repair their vehicle, according to police.....

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20101114_11_a12_cutlin105145

[Methanolandbrats]

then you will enjoy this, I did :thumbup:

Awwesaome.....nearly everyone on Earth could agree these people are purebred A$$wholes.

[Insomniac]

Too bad they can't get tossed into real jail for a day. Let the inmates know who they are (and who they harassed) and mete out prison justice.

[Napoleon]

Glad to hear doctors say Rep Giffords will be okay.

I think what they said is that there is 100% chance she will not die and she will not be in a vegetative state. To me there is a lot of room between that statement and OK, though based on the possible outcomes it sounds like about as good as you could get.

As to the Westboro Baptist Church I read something about them recently I did not know. Most "members" of the church are from the same family as is the attorney who has won cases and attorneys fees for the church in the past when they have been blocked from protesting. Almost makes you wonder what the motivating factor is for them.

[chop456]

Insanity?

[Napoleon]

Insanity?

Technically speaking, I don't think insanity is a motive.

[TKGAngel]

I was thinking the cops should just wade in with billy clubs, mace, dogs, kicks to the nuts, whatever..........those ****ers would never show up again.

Then they would start screaming about religious persecution. And sue. And then they'd get more publicity.

[Methanolandbrats]

Then they would start screaming about religious persecution. And sue. And then they'd get more publicity.

Not if the judge threw it out. :)

[racer2c]

Ya know I'm not a fan of the death penalty but these Westboro Baptist Church ****wits would top my list:flame:

Same with the shooter...right...right?

[cameraman]

Same with the shooter...right...right?

Actually I was thinking of something a bit more medieval.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Medieval_manuscript-Jews_identified_by_rouelle_are_being_burned_at_sta ke.jpg

[Napoleon]

I don't think anyone has to worry about this guy not getting the death penalty (not that, IMO, it matters because all that means is a life sentence w/o parole). The guy left a trail of written evidence that he knew exactly what he was doing. Whatever one in a zillion chance he may have otherwise had with an insanity defense is gone and I really doubt the jury will otherwise forgo imposing the death penalty.

If I am the prosecutor I am going to hammer this guy in the death penalty phase with the 9 year old girl whose grandpa managed the Phillies to a WS win (and the Yankees and Mets) and how she was the only girl on her little league team and she wanted to be the first woman major league player, etc., etc., etc.

The jury will all but light the guy on fire themselves and use the flames to cook smores in celebration of the verdict.

[nrc]

I don't think anyone has to worry about this guy not getting the death penalty (not that, IMO, it matters because all that means is a life sentence w/o parole). The guy left a trail of written evidence that he knew exactly what he was doing. Whatever one in a zillion chance he may have otherwise had with an insanity defense is gone and I really doubt the jury will otherwise forgo imposing the death penalty.

As far as his mental state, Loughner seems more just plain nuts than Hinckley or Chapman. Of course laws have changed since then, so the best he can get is guilty, but insane. But his lawyer has kept both serial bomber Eric Rudolph and child killer Susan Smith off death row.

In some states that might get him a soft bed for the rest of his natural life, but I think in Arizona he'll eventually get the needle.

[RaceGrrl]

In some states that might get him a soft bed for the rest of his natural life, but I think in Arizona he'll eventually get the needle.


... or the shiv.

[Napoleon]

. . guilty, but insane. . . . But his lawyer has kept both serial bomber Eric Rudolph and child killer Susan Smith off death row.

There really are 2 separate issues which you touch on.

First is he legally insane. That question really does not have a lot of overlap with whether the person has mental problems in the opinion of a psychologist. Basically the idea behind legal insanity is that the person is separated from reality in such a way that they are incapable of forming an appreciation that what they are doing is wrong. I am talking about something like the person thinks they are cutting down weeds when they are shooting up a grocery store. It is a pretty high standard to meet (that is why very few people ever successfully use the defense) and at this point from what has come out the shooter is screwed. Allegedly they have stuff he wrote out about his plan to assassinate her (his words, not mine). Good luck convincing a jury that he had no appreciation for what he was doing was wrong when he is talking about “assassination”.

Separately there are a whole range of things you can bring into sentencing which are not admissible during the guilt/innocence phase and I would assume evidence of clinical mental illness is one of those things you can bring in to determine mitigating and aggravating factors to sentencing (it would make sense to let it in). I never took any course work on it though.

By the way nrc, being that you are my age and from Ohio, you may recall this. In law school criminal law class they used a video of an interview with a kid who was a year older then us who as a freshman at Miami of Ohio, which would have been when we were seniors in high school, murdered his family with a baseball bat on Christmas break, was picked up at his house by the students he was riding back with, and went back to school. A few days later the bodies were found and he was picked up blissfully attending class. It was all the news in Ohio for a few weeks. If you watched the tape you would think “no way he is not getting off as insane” but he did not. The psychiatrist who did the interview was the state’s expert witness who did a part at the end for the students on why as whacked out as the kid seemed it still was not legal insanity. The psychiatrist, Phillip Resnick (http://www.cwru.edu/med/psychiatry/documents/1resnickcv%20may2009.pdf) has gone on to be one of the leading psychiatrist in cases like this. Check out page 2 of his resume. He has gone on to deal with the worse criminals our country has produced in the last 25 years.

[G.]

I think the Feds are doing the prosecutions, at least on 4 (?) of the murders. Not sure if that get's you the needle quicker or not. I think Club Fed is safer than state-run though (as far as the shiv).

RE. the Westboro Bastards, yeah, they're lawyers following pastor/lawyer Dad.

I hate to say it, but they DO have a right to be *****les. It's a pretty safe bet that if I saw them protesting nearby that I would end up arrested.

I wish /b/ would really go after them.

[SteveH]

It's a pretty safe bet that if I saw them protesting nearby that I would end up arrested.

I would be there right beside you.

[racer2c]

I would think that premeditated murder of a judge and sitting congress woman would guarantee the needle.

[Insomniac]

I would think that premeditated murder of a judge and sitting congress woman would guarantee the needle.

I never liked the distinction they give to some people to determine death penalty/not death penalty eligible.

[Gnam]

The comedian Ron White summed up my feelings,


They say, "We can't kill him, he's too crazy to know we're killing him."

Then what the hell are we arguing about? If he don't know the difference and it makes me feel better...

[Methanolandbrats]

A good friend of mine is from a SE Asian country. In a case this clear cut, the cops in her area would just shoot the "suspect" and then tell the family to come and get the body. It is a pragmatic approach that saves a lot of time and money.

[racer2c]

I never liked the distinction they give to some people to determine death penalty/not death penalty eligible.

I agree from a philosophical perspective, especially in terms of civil servants, but old traditions remain of course.

[TrueBrit]

But his lawyer has kept *snip* child killer Susan Smith off death row. I am STILL trying to figure out why that woman wasn't fried to a crisp by the jury...IMHO all child killers should get to take a permanent dirt nap....:flame:

[TrueBrit]

I would be there right beside you.

..me too..

[gjc2]

I would think that premeditated murder of a judge and sitting congress woman would guarantee the needle.

Not with his mental health issues.

I’m sure he’ll be found to be competent to stand trial; he understands the charges and is able to assist in his own defense.

But,,,,, did he understand that what he did was wrong, and could he have stopped himself?

[devilmaster]

Tucson Memorial Speech:

Wow.

:thumbup:

[Methanolandbrats]

Tucson Memorial Speech:

Wow.

:thumbup:

What speech?

[TKGAngel]

CNN is reporting that the WBC members will not be protesting at the 9 year-old's funeral after all. A radio station offered them 30 minutes of airtime for a civil discussion if they left the girl's funeral alone.

[devilmaster]

CNN is reporting that the WBC members will not be protesting at the 9 year-old's funeral after all. A radio station offered them 30 minutes of airtime for a civil discussion if they left the girl's funeral alone.

Make sure its at the same time... I wouldn't trust them at all.

[dando]

What speech?

http://nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/president-delivers-message-of-hope-in-tucson-after-massacre-20110112

-Kevin

[Methanolandbrats]

http://nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/president-delivers-message-of-hope-in-tucson-after-massacre-20110112

-Kevin

Thanks, I'm watching the Bucks v Spurs....did'nt know there was a speech.

[Ankf00]

CNN is reporting that the WBC members will not be protesting at the 9 year-old's funeral after all. A radio station offered them 30 minutes of airtime for a civil discussion if they left the girl's funeral alone.

30 minutes of airtime doesnt make them money. Filing civil suits against municipalities, local pd's, people who assault them, et. al. makes them money.

[SteveH]

CNN is reporting that the WBC members will not be protesting at the 9 year-old's funeral after all. A radio station offered them 30 minutes of airtime for a civil discussion if they left the girl's funeral alone.

CNN is also reporting that the state has passed a law prohibiting such a protest.


Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed emergency legislation Tuesday that bars protests within 300 feet of a funeral and within an hour from its beginning or end.



http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/11/arizona.funeral.westboro/index.html

[KLang]

I thought the supreme court already ruled those dirtbags could protest at funerals.

[Insomniac]

Tucson Memorial Speech:

Wow.

:thumbup:

I agree.

Given how at least ABC and FOX put the memorial on TV at the last minute (even their web sites listed the regularly scheduled programming as it happened), I think they got an advance copy and decided it was damn good too.

[Indy]

The memorial was beautiful, very well done.

I can not imagine how this guy could receive the death penalty. He clearly was not in control of himself. His actions may as well have been an act of God.

[G.]

Not with his mental health issues.

I’m sure he’ll be found to be competent to stand trial; he understands the charges and is able to assist in his own defense.

But,,,,, did he understand that what he did was wrong, and could he have stopped himself?


The memorial was beautiful, very well done.

I can not imagine how this guy could receive the death penalty. He clearly was not in control of himself. His actions may as well have been an act of God.
see post #53

[Gnam]

I know an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, but putting a bullet in this guy's head just feels right.

The best medicine for a rabid dog is lead.

[cameraman]

Rabies can't be treated, paranoid schizophrenia can be treated. His actions are driven by seriously screwed up neurochemistry. It isn't something he can control. Sad thing is if he were put on the right mix of antipsychotics he would come out of his delusions to discover himself a mass murderer. Then what, he is still guilty of the actions if not the rational intent. But killing him accomplishes nothing.

[TKGAngel]

30 minutes of airtime doesnt make them money. Filing civil suits against municipalities, local pd's, people who assault them, et. al. makes them money.

I'm well aware of that. I don't have access to the Tucson radio market rankings to check the prominence of the station in question, but the group may feel that a half an hour of airtime on a station outweighs any benefit they may receive from protesting.


I agree.

Given how at least ABC and FOX put the memorial on TV at the last minute (even their web sites listed the regularly scheduled programming as it happened), I think they got an advance copy and decided it was damn good too.

I'm pretty sure the text was released early. The media peeps I follow on Twitter started commenting about 15 minutes before POTUS took the stage that they had the text and it was good. That's what got me to turn off the DVR and tune in.

[Napoleon]

I'm pretty sure the text was released early.

Almost 100% of the time the press has the text of a Presidential speech in advance with the understanding that it is "embargoed".

[Methanolandbrats]

Rabies can't be treated, paranoid schizophrenia can be treated. His actions are driven by seriously screwed up neurochemistry. It isn't something he can control. Sad thing is if he were put on the right mix of antipsychotics he would come out of his delusions to discover himself a mass murderer. Then what, he is still guilty of the actions if not the rational intent. But killing him accomplishes nothing.

Killing him saves a lot of money.

[Indy]

The kid is clearly schizophrenic, perhaps made worse by his drug use. Schizophrenia is a disorder, a brain defect. People who have it are often not in a position to be responsible for their actions, period. The moral outrage of the ignorant and uneducated demanding the heads of such killers may induce us as a nation to behave barbarously and set our legal hurdles for the "insanity defense" very high, but I have no doubt that this soul is not responsible for what its body did.

It is not merely coincidental that in areas with more enlightened populations this sort of thing happens more infrequently. Why? Because they actually care for their mentally ill citizens. This kid was screaming for help from, at the latest, his sophomore year in high school, but he was bullied or shunned by his classmates, ignored or expelled by his schools, and generally treated as an outcast with an attitude. If he hadn't had this violent impluse, he probably would have ended up as one of those "able bodied bums" you see lying around the sidewalks of your city.

Sorry for the rant, but I have just heard so many inane comments from people with child-like senses of justice regarding this tragedy. Displaying anger at the ill for being ill is not a becoming attitude.

[KLang]

The kid is clearly schizophrenic

So you are a doctor and have had an opportunity to examine this nutjob? :laugh:

[racer2c]

I'll wait for the prosecutions psychological evaluations. I knew kids in high school that acted weird just for the sake of acting weird (cry for attention, what have you) and from what I've read of this loser, his actions in school were incredibly tame to some of the wack jobs I went to school with.

An innocent child's life was taken from her at the incredibly young age of 9. I'm not in any mood to debate that losers level of sanity.

[Indy]

So you are a doctor and have had an opportunity to examine this nutjob? :laugh:

It is my opinion based on the reporting I have read, and I do not mind stating it. I could be wrong, but if I am right, treating him as a common criminal would be a travesty of justice.

[racer2c]

It is my opinion based on the reporting I have read, and I do not mind stating it. I could be wrong, but if I am right, treating him as a common criminal would be a travesty of justice.

I agree that treating him like a common criminal would be a travesty of justice, because he is an extraordinarily heinous criminal who deserves every bit of what a trial of peers and the maximum sentencing will allow.

[Indy]

If he had a brain tumor and that is what caused him to do this, would he be an unfortunate cancer patient, deserving of our pity, or would he be a heinous criminal who deserves what he gets?

[racer2c]

If he had a brain tumor and that is what caused him to do this, would he be an unfortunate cancer patient, deserving of our pity, or would he be a heinous criminal who deserves what he gets?

The answer is obvious, what a ridiculous analogy.

This criminal was sane enough to convince a law enforcement agent to not give him a ticket for running a red light just hours before he murdered innocents in cold blood.

[Indy]

I disagree, but let's put it another way. If you had a son who suffered from severe mental illness and attacked you because of it, would you want to disown him or get him help?

[cameraman]

The answer is obvious, what a ridiculous analogy.

This criminal was sane enough to convince a law enforcement agent to not give him a ticket for running a red light just hours before he murdered innocents in cold blood.

You clearly have never dealt with people with severe mental illness. You would not be making that comment if you had.

[datachicane]

You clearly have never dealt with people with severe mental illness. You would not be making that comment if you had.

Yep.

We're all angry, and rightly so. Unfortunately, as humans, anger generally trumps reason, principles, and anything else you might bring to the table. The kid is clearly ill- if we kill him, let's just be honest with ourselves and call it revenge, not justice.

Our mental health system is full of folks who are one weeks' medication away from the same thing, the only difference being that they're getting treatment and this kid did not. Should we kill them, too, and save the $$$?

[racer2c]

You clearly have never dealt with people with severe mental illness. You would not be making that comment if you had.

You have no idea what my experience is and for you to make a sweeping judgment that I have none is laughable. So are we all to compare mental health experience credentials? I'll warn you, I worked for a behavioral care management company for 9 years. 9 years of being exposed to case, after case, after case of incredibly disturbed, TRUE mentally disturbed patients who had never, thankfully, committed cold blooded murder.

Maybe the feds will let you fluff this guys pillow and read him bed time stories. You should ask them.

[G.]

I disagree, but let's put it another way. If you had a son who suffered from severe mental illness and attacked you because of it, would you want to disown him or get him help?

What if it was someone else's kid, and he killed your kid? As long as we're making scenarios up and all...


This thread is why we don't allow SE Asia-style justice to be done by the cops. Or by OffCamber members.

Let's get all of the facts, give him a trial by his peers, and then kill the bastard.

[chop456]

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/diu/lev24.jpg

[Methanolandbrats]

...
This thread is why we don't allow SE Asia-style justice to be done by the cops. Or by OffCamber members.

Let's get all of the facts, give him a trial by his peers, and then kill the bastard.:thumbup:

[Napoleon]

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/diu/lev24.jpg



Splitters!

[cameraman]

Maybe the feds will let you fluff this guys pillow and read him bed time stories. You should ask them.

If you had ever seen a maximum security forensic psychiatric facility you would not be talking about fluffing pillows.

[STD]

Our mental health system is full of folks who are one weeks' medication away from the same thing, the only difference being that they're getting treatment and this kid did not. Should we kill them, too, and save the $$$?


Years of cut backs and reductions in mental health facilities have a lot of cells in prisons and jails now taken up by people that needed proper help and treatment and didn't get it or it wasn't continued.
A lot of programs now end as the patient becomes of legal age and the rest are overburdened.

[Ziggy]

I't time for the victims to be held in our thoughts.

I do believe the survivors of those killed would have the final say.......

[devilmaster]

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-na-arizona-shooting-medical-20110114,0,3042305.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fmostviewed+%28L.A.+ Times+-+Most+Viewed+Stories%29


"Her family has asked her very specific things, and she has used her hand to communicate with them," said Dr. Michael Lemole, a neurosurgeon at Tucson's University Medical Center and one of the surgeons who operated on Giffords after she was shot in the head Saturday morning. That implies that she has a good amount of cognitive functioning.....

Thursday morning, Giffords was acting more and more like someone waking up, said Dr. Peter Rhee, chief of trauma surgery at the medical center — yawning and rubbing her eyes. He said her eyes also are beginning to track movements, which is another good sign.

Lemole said the team is beginning aggressive physical therapy, which includes having Giffords sit on the edge of her bed with her legs dangling over the side.

"She is able to move both of her legs to command. That's huge," Lemole said. "We say, 'Gabrielle, lift your legs up,' and she lifts both of them up."

He said they hoped to get her into a chair Thursday or Friday.

[Napoleon]

Interesting story on the response of the paramedics and the hospital:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/us/15medical.html?_r=3&hp=&pagewanted=all