EPA Approves E15

[racer2c]

As a boat owner and member of a national boaters association, I receive numerous periodicals and news letters where one of the hottest issues of the last year was the monitoring of whether the EPA would approve E15 (15% ethanol gasoline). Today the EPA has approved E15. Opponents say it is 'fake green' in that it takes more energy to produce than it saves and that it is very harmful to various engine components (especially boat fuel tanks made of fiber glass/metal). Anyone here care?

[KLang]

Anyone here care?

I'd rather we not subsidize the production and sale of the stuff. If it makes economic sense on it's own, fine.

[opinionated ow]

Given how horrid E10 is, I'd hate to consider E15. Makes me glad I need minimum 95 Octane...

[Methanolandbrats]

I care. The crap causes corrosion, shrinks seals and has less energy per gallon. I feed my cars and especially my two-stroke equipment real 100% pure gas. I get 9% better mileage in the Jetta using real gas over E 10 or whatever is commonly sold. Two stations in my area sell real gas, one is close by my house. :)

[Insomniac]

I'm torn on this subsidizing stuff. I feel like a hypocrite when I favor stuff like wind/solar and then complain about the tax breaks for oil companies and the insane farm subsidies.

My reasoning:

Foreign fuel dependence = bad.
Wind/Solar = clean.
Farm Subsidies = proliferation of biofuels that consume lots of energy to create and high fructose corn syrup instead of sugar and massive obesity.

[Napoleon]

Today the EPA has approved E15. Opponents say it is 'fake green' in that it takes more energy to produce than it saves . . .

It is fake green. I think that technically it doesn't take more (dirty) energy then it puts out (clean) energy but that it is pretty close to a wash. Plus it tears up the environment as a result of fertilizers, etc. etc. If they want a fuel that you can grow that is green look at algae or something like that.

[Ankf00]

industry giveaway.

need ethanol b/c we need an oxygenate in our fuel, mtbe isn't so good for the supply of the natural substance that comprises 60% of our bodies.

we don't need an extra 5% of it beyond the unnecessary 10%

[Tifosi24]

The official stance of our agency is ethanol is good, but from a practical standpoint, it is not that great. Ank is right, from a fuel additive standpoint, it is a great substitute for MBTE. In terms of increasing percentages, it is pure farmer giveaway since the decreasing fuel economy as you increase the percentage takes away the petroleum savings. It is now cost positive (less energy to make), but is it worth having 40 percent of last year's corn crop being devoted to energy production? I don't think so. This has a serious negative impact on global food prices and will cause pain to people's food budgets across the whole world in the coming future. Oh, and I almost forgot, these ethanol plants require large quantities of natural gas which has required significant infrastructure upgrades which, through how federal tariffs are setup, has indirectly increased heating prices.

[Ankf00]

only quibble is that not all ethanol corn is food grade

[KLang]

only quibble is that not all ethanol corn is food grade

Feed grade? I read the other day that another 40% goes to feed livestock making that more expensive as well.

[Ankf00]

food. after that it's feed. I'm no fan of corn ethanol but ADM and the govt have no control over russia capping their exports, nor over farmers in developing nations producing crops to chase dollars instead of crops to fill mouths.

In the end, this is the corporatist america that we the people wanted, and it's the kind of corporatist power that musollini envisioned. Yay, us.

[grungex]

ADM is scum. :thumdown:

[Indy]

In the end, this is the corporatist america that we the people wanted, and it's the kind of corporatist power that musollini envisioned. Yay, us.

:thumbup:

[Napoleon]

only quibble is that not all ethanol corn is food grade

Across the street from where I grew up was a corn field where they grew corn for animal feed. We use to get a laugh everytime you would see someone in the dead of night stop their car, run into the field and steal some to take home for dinner.

[dando]

Feed grade? I read the other day that another 40% goes to feed livestock making that more expensive as well.

Yup. We used to buy sweet corn for $.10 an ear just a few years ago. It now goes for ~$.50 an ear, and the animal feed corn has resulted in a spike in beef and pork prices the past two years or so. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[SteveH]

Yup. We used to buy sweet corn for $.10 an ear just a few years ago. It now goes for ~$.50 an ear, and the animal feed corn has resulted in a spike in beef and pork prices the past two years or so. :saywhat:

-Kevin

I had read a few years ago that some beef feeder operations were being converted to corn fields. Higher return on the investment resulting in less beef supply into the market. We lose at the grocery but at least we get corn 'squeezins' in our gas.

[Methanolandbrats]

You can eat field corn, you just have to pick it when it's young. It's not as sweet and a bit chewy. Sweet corn is a hybrid of field corn that contains 2-3 times as much sugar as field corn and the larger kernels hold more water. Less than 10% of the corn grown is sweet corn and price fluctuations in sweet corn have to do with weather more than anything. A cold, wet growing season and the corn get's plowed under. Guess what my grandfather did for a living and where I worked when I was a kid.

[dando]

I had read a few years ago that some beef feeder operations were being converted to corn fields. Higher return on the investment resulting in less beef supply into the market. We lose at the grocery but at least we get corn 'squeezins' in our gas.

Farmers around here have also been switching over from soy beans, so the price impacts in the food chain run even deeper.

M&B, true on weather impacts on sweet corn production, but fields around here have switched from sweet corn to field corn due to the increased ethanol production and/or subsidies. The local farmer's market guy I know has had to switch providers each of the last four years and his supply is much, much lower. I buy my 6 for $3 corn from him, but I've also noticed that Kroger (or Krogers if you're from oHIo :gomer:) has had much less supply and Olathe corn has ceased to exist. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[cameraman]

that Kroger (or Krogers if you're from oHIo :gomer:) has had much less supply

There is no 's? Who knew.

[dando]

There is no 's? Who knew.

http://www.kroger.com/SiteCollectionImages/common/banner_logo_header.gif

-Kevin

[SurfaceUnits]

Guess what my grandfather did for a living and where I worked when I was a kid.

could you give us a hint

[SurfaceUnits]

Shell Oil pulls the plug on its last algae biodiesel research project

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/03/shell-oil-pulls-the-plug-on-its-last-algae-biodiesel-research-pr/

I hope that smidgen of a post for the article keeps the hawaiian lawyers away from the boos

[SurfaceUnits]

U.S. Adminstration In Contempt Over Gulf Drilling Moratorium, Judge Rules By Laurel Brubaker Calkins -

Feb. 3 (Bloomberg) - - The Obama Regime acted in contempt by continuing its deepwater drilling moratorium after the policy was struck down, a New Orleans judge ruled.
Interior Department regulators acted with “determined disregard” by lifting and reinstituting a series of policy changes that restricted offshore drilling, following the worst offshore oil spill in U.S. history, U.S. District Judge, Martin Feldman of New Orleans ruled yesterday.

[SurfaceUnits]

,,,,,

[WickerBill]

New car. Supposed 23/33mpg. Granted, new, so motor not broken in, winter mix fuel, etc, but annoyed that with 60% city driving I am only getting 22.5mpg.

Happened upon a (unfortunately out of town) fuel stop with E0 fuel. Filled up, and have done approximately the same sort of city/highway mix as previous tanks.

27.2mpg.

I knew ethanol made a difference, but wow.

[NismoZ]

So, mandate higher mileage standards then take it back by another mandate that lowers it? Figures.:shakehead