View Full Version : More Lance Armstrong and PED Stuff
Insomniac
01-22-11, 05:44 PM
SI has a new article:
As the cyclist and cancer crusader faces possible indictment by a grand jury, SI takes a close look at old and new allegations that he used performance-enhancing drugs while winning Tour de France championships
It's long, but interesting.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1180944/1/index.htm
It's pretty damning.
Methods of "human enhancement" have just about destroyed sports.
Lance is done ala Favre and Foppa. :gomer:
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=6127166
-Kevin
Don Quixote
02-16-11, 01:33 PM
Lance is done ala Favre and Foppa. :gomer:
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=6127166
-KevinWho says Favre is done? :)
Who says Favre is done? :)
I'm not saying any of them are done. Heck, the Clowns or Bungles might need a QB next season....whenever that might be. :gomer:
-Kevin
cameraman
06-14-12, 01:15 AM
And round two begins...
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency is bringing doping charges against seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong, threatening to strip his victories in the storied cycling race.
Armstrong could face a lifetime ban from the sport if he is found to have used performance-enhancing drugs. The move by USADA immediately bans him from competing in triathlons, which he turned to after he retired from cycling last year.
Armstrong, in a statement Wednesday, dismissed any doping allegations as "baseless" and "motivated by spite" and noted they came just months after federal prosecutors closed a two-year criminal investigation against the cyclist without bringing an indictment.
The charges by USADA were first reported by the Washington Post.
USADA's letter to Armstrong informing him of the charges also said the agency was bringing doping charges against Johan Bruyneel, manager of Armstrong's winning teams; team doctors Pedro Celaya and Luis Garcia del Moral; team trainer Pepe Marti, and consulting doctor Michele Ferrari.
The USADA letter, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press, accuses Armstrong of using and promoting the use of the blood booster EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone, human growth hormone and anti-inflammatory steroids. The letter doesn't cite specific examples, but says the charges are based on evidence gathered in an investigation of Armstrong's teams, including witnesses who aren't named in the letter.
According to USADA's letter, "numerous riders, team personnel and others will testify" they either saw Armstrong dope or heard him tell them he used EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone and cortisone from 1996 to 2005. Armstrong won the Tour de France every year from 1999-2005.
It also says blood collections obtained by cycling's governing body in 2009 and 2010 are "fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions." Armstrong came out of retirement to race in the Tour de France those two years.
USADA officials had said they would pursue possible charges against Armstrong even after federal criminal investigators had closed their case.
In a letter to the USADA last week, Armstrong attorney Robert Luskin noted that USADA Chief Executive Officer Travis Tygart participated in witness interviews with federal investigator Jeff Novitzky during the criminal investigation.
"It is a vendetta, which has nothing to do with learning the truth and everything to do with settling a score and garnering publicity at Lance's expense," Luskin's letter said.
Tygart did not immediately return a call seeking comment.
Armstrong, who has been in France training for a triathlon, maintained his innocence, saying in a statement: "I have never doped, and, unlike many of my accusers, I have competed as an endurance athlete for 25 years with no spike in performance, passed more than 500 drug tests and never failed one."
opinionated ow
06-14-12, 06:02 AM
I still call bull on it. Typical case of tall poppy syndrome perpetrated primarily by a dishonest, discredited and distrusted bitter old cheat.
TrueBrit
06-14-12, 12:24 PM
Not sure just how many bites of the apple all of these bodies get before Lance should just start suing the ever-loving crap out of them...
If they couldn't get a Grand Jury to indict him one would have to believe that this too is bullpoop...
:shakehead
jan ullrich never failed a test either
TravelGal
06-14-12, 06:48 PM
Not sure just how many bites of the apple all of these bodies get before Lance should just start suing the ever-loving crap out of them...
If they couldn't get a Grand Jury to indict him one would have to believe that this too is bullpoop...
:shakehead
True dat. Our tax dollars at work. :rolleyes:
I wish doping wasn't part of top-tier athletics, but at some point don't you need to let it go, and work harder on the present and future offenders?
Are they just trying to bankrupt him?
Do they just find the guy with the least amount of witnesses and declare him the winner? :shakehead
Andrew Longman
06-14-12, 07:10 PM
I've always been conflicted about Lance.
I'd really like to believe he didn't dope. He is a good story.
But I also know that testicular cancer is a side effect of PED use and he is well known to be highly competitive and highly controlling of almost all aspects of his career. If anyone was determined and smart enough to get away with doping, Lance is the guy.
OTOH I also know that the powers that be hate him and have been trying to ruin him. And that there are a lot of people in the sport who think you can win unless you use PED. The sport is a mess with them. So why not expect them to try to stick Lance with it. They might actually believe he uses.
And on yet another hand, I almost don't care if they dope. What's the difference between the guy who does blood replacement, the guy who trains at 7000 feet, and the guy who can afford to sleep every night in a hyperbolic chambe? The end result is about the same, some just are more expensive and invasive.
And at some point this is just too much in the past. How many years must pass before Lance doesn't have to worry that they will try to take away his wins?
Methanolandbrats
06-14-12, 07:24 PM
If there ever was a topic that deserves a resounding WGAF,this is it.
opinionated ow
06-14-12, 08:51 PM
doesn't the principle of double jeopardy apply in american law?
Tifosi24
06-14-12, 09:01 PM
If there ever was a topic that deserves a resounding WGAF,this is it.
I will second this eventhough I am a big cycling fan. There is no proof from positive tests, and the people going after him, Hamilton, Landis, et.al, lack credibility. Do I think he doped, almost certainly. It was rampant during his entire career, and he dominated riders who tested positive or admitted to it. The other thing that people need to remember, doping has been apart of cycling from the beginning, even Merckx tested positive and admitted to one offense. Let the past stay in the past. I think the frogs should concentrate on producing some better GC contenders than Tommy Voeckler and then this garbage can go away.
Tifosi24
06-14-12, 09:02 PM
doesn't the principle of double jeopardy apply in american law?
That would only apply to criminal cases, this is an administrative manner. Although, I agree with you on principle.
doesn't the principle of double jeopardy apply in american law?
This isn't a criminal matter. This would carry no legal ramifications. Except the ensuing lawsuits.
Rogue Leader
06-18-12, 12:26 PM
....
And on yet another hand, I almost don't care if they dope. What's the difference between the guy who does blood replacement, the guy who trains at 7000 feet, and the guy who can afford to sleep every night in a hyperbolic chambe? The end result is about the same, some just are more expensive and invasive.
.........
Except then everyone would do it, and when someone dies from it fingers would be pointed "why did you allow it?" It would be a ***** show.
TravelGal
06-18-12, 05:47 PM
Clemons off on all counts. I, for one, am glad this particular witch hunt didn't succeed.
Insomniac
06-18-12, 10:43 PM
Not a fan of obstruction charges/trials when they can't make the real thing stick. I also don't like that cheaters can create enough doubt to sway opinion that it keeps coming to this.
Not with a bang... (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/sports/cycling/lance-armstrong-ends-fight-against-doping-charges-losing-his-7-tour-de-france-titles.html?_r=1)
cameraman
08-24-12, 12:48 AM
Meh. I'd be happier if they actually had some hard physical evidence. Secret hearings and accusations that will never be released leave almost as bad a taste as cheating does. I just have a hard time with the fact that he never tested positive for anything and the UCI was all over him the entire time. They caught dozens upon dozens of riders doping but Armstrong always came up clean. I have a real hard time believing that he had some method of hiding EPO usage that no other rider has had before or since. Same for the steroid use. Thousands of tests, all negative. How was that possible?
I also don't see how the USADA thinks that it can strip him of his TdF wins. They don't have any control over what the UCI does and US Cycling organizes racing in the US not the USADA.
And what about all of his non-TdF race wins? There were quite a few.
TrueBrit
08-24-12, 08:51 AM
Meh. I'd be happier if they actually had some hard physical evidence. Secret hearings and accusations that will never be released leave almost as bad a taste as cheating does. I just have a hard time with the fact that he never tested positive for anything and the UCI was all over him the entire time. They caught dozens upon dozens of riders doping but Armstrong always came up clean. I have a real hard time believing that he had some method of hiding EPO usage that no other rider has had before or since. Same for the steroid use. Thousands of tests, all negative. How was that possible?
I also don't see how the USADA thinks that it can strip him of his TdF wins. They don't have any control over what the UCI does and US Cycling organizes racing in the US not the USADA.
And what about all of his non-TdF race wins? There were quite a few.
^^^This:thumbup: It stinks to high heaven from top to bottom..they couldn't even get a grand jury indictment for crying out loud but the USADA has incontrovertible proof? Sorry, I'm not buying...
Rogue Leader
08-24-12, 08:52 AM
Meh. I'd be happier if they actually had some hard physical evidence. Secret hearings and accusations that will never be released leave almost as bad a taste as cheating does. I just have a hard time with the fact that he never tested positive for anything and the UCI was all over him the entire time. They caught dozens upon dozens of riders doping but Armstrong always came up clean. I have a real hard time believing that he had some method of hiding EPO usage that no other rider has had before or since. Same for the steroid use. Thousands of tests, all negative. How was that possible?
I also don't see how the USADA thinks that it can strip him of his TdF wins. They don't have any control over what the UCI does and US Cycling organizes racing in the US not the USADA.
And what about all of his non-TdF race wins? There were quite a few.
I hope a fight comes out of this between the UCI and the USADA. I have a feeling they are gonna tell the USADA to go screw. Lets hope thats the case. I agree with you hes clean, and for some dumb reason they can't handle that.
TrueBrit
08-24-12, 08:53 AM
I hope a fight comes out of this between the UCI and the USADA. I have a feeling they are gonna tell the USADA to go screw. Lets hope thats the case. I agree with you hes clean, and for some dumb reason they can't handle that.
If memory serves the UCI was backing Armstrong's attempts to shut down the USADA witch hunt....
Rogue Leader
08-24-12, 08:54 AM
If memory serves the UCI was backing Armstrong's attempts to shut down the USADA witch hunt....
Yes you are correct, they also backed him in his criminal case brought by the DOJ which was shut down. So if the DOJ shut their case down against him, who the hell is the USADA to try and do this.
TrueBrit
08-24-12, 09:43 AM
Yes you are correct, they also backed him in his criminal case brought by the DOJ which was shut down. So if the DOJ shut their case down against him, who the hell is the USADA to try and do this.
And I love the Python-esque logic that if he won't contest their charges it automatically means he doped...that's the same sort of bullcrap as the "when did you stop beating your wife" political question...damned if you do and damned if you don't...I hardly think that after 16 years of these claims, and not one positive result this panel whose sole purpose is to find people guilty finally had the goods on him when the Feds couldn't...
I guess "the goods" included 10 of his good buddies who were lined up to testify against him. :rolleyes: ALWAYS wanted to believe him, loved the commercial when he said "The only thing I'm on...is my bike!" But...:( The thing that REALLY interests me is how a sponsor such as THE US GOVERNMENT can now file suit to reclaim some of the "tens of millions" they invested in his team! Dang, the Post Office certainly doesn't want to be accused of WASTING money!
Lux Interior
08-24-12, 07:54 PM
The guy passed how many drug tests? sounds like some kind of vendetta to me from that Texas guy. Everyone knows Lance won, so if some government agency says he is stripped of his titles, who cares?
My feeling is that even more people will donate to his causes now.
Ditto. How does a quasi-goverment agency (and giving them more jurisdiction than they have) have the right to strip 7 Tour de France victories?
Witchhunt.
Lux Interior
08-24-12, 11:08 PM
I'm sure the International Cycling Union will have something to say about it. wouldn't it be up to the sanctioning body of the Tour De France to strip or not strip the victories? I am guessing the US Anti Doping Agency is not the sanctioning body of the tour.
Insomniac
08-27-12, 11:16 AM
It does stink. The evidence isn't there. They need to disclose everything that leads them to take his titles away. There is no physical proof, so we're talking all circumstantial claims. I would like to weigh the credibility of the claims/evidence that led to this conclusion.
Rogue Leader
08-27-12, 12:10 PM
In discussing this with a friend yesterday he mentioned something.
While this is all sensationalized that his titles are being stripped, if he had fought the charges himself he would have had been guilty until proven innocent. However now to strip his titles the UCI and WADA need the USADA to prove him guilty as opposed to the other way around. Both the UCI and WADA have already cleared him based on the same evidence that the USADA has, so there is a very good possibility that this ban and title strip won't happen.
If so its also going to rock the international sports world, and hopefully lead to some reform on how people are tested, accused, etc.
Insomniac
08-27-12, 05:09 PM
I think it should all be down to testing. If you beat the test, you beat the test. Keep samples longer if you get information that can be used to recheck for something you didn't know about before. If people want to come out and say they saw Lance do something, tell them when and with what. Then test for it if you didn't before. The accuser should also have to be an active member of the sport (if they once were one) as well. Don't come out 10 years later when you're done.
Andrew Longman
08-27-12, 06:16 PM
Not a bad piece http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/othersports/longtime-witness-against-lance-armstrong-finally-vindicated/2012/08/25/804ed02c-ef07-11e1-b829-786e028dccb3_story.html
Barry Bonds never failed a test either.
But then too what is the difference between the poor African runner who trains at 10000 feet, the runner who dopes his blood with extra red blood cells, or the runner who is from a rich enough country to sleep every night in a hyperbolic chamber? The effects are all the same but only the second is illegal.
In any event, I agree with insomniac. If you pass the test you pass the test. But then destroy the samples. No one would think it is ok to run any of AJs winning cars through tech ten years after the fact. You win, you win.
Insomniac
08-27-12, 08:57 PM
Not a bad piece http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/othersports/longtime-witness-against-lance-armstrong-finally-vindicated/2012/08/25/804ed02c-ef07-11e1-b829-786e028dccb3_story.html
Barry Bonds never failed a test either.
But then too what is the difference between the poor African runner who trains at 10000 feet, the runner who dopes his blood with extra red blood cells, or the runner who is from a rich enough country to sleep every night in a hyperbolic chamber? The effects are all the same but only the second is illegal.
In any event, I agree with insomniac. If you pass the test you pass the test. But then destroy the samples. No one would think it is ok to run any of AJs winning cars through tech ten years after the fact. You win, you win.
No one is taking any of Bonds' records away. :)
I think there's a difference between a car and sample. I think they should keep the samples for X years in case new ways to dope are unearthed (that were in use before they were) or techniques used to mask can be detected.
I also think well prior to an event, they should submit samples to avoid any claim later of it being hormones, some medication, etc. Essentially a grace period (however long it takes for most PEDs to be ineffective).
In my opinion, Lance did everything he was supposed to. He tested clean and won 7 titles. Prove otherwise WADA, USADA, etc.
Lux Interior
08-28-12, 01:26 AM
I would imagine, that due to things like decay, the blood samples would have a limited "hold time" or something like that. I can't believe that a sample could still be valid after two weeks let alone 2-3 years.
opinionated ow
08-28-12, 03:08 AM
I would imagine, that due to things like decay, the blood samples would have a limited "hold time" or something like that. I can't believe that a sample could still be valid after two weeks let alone 2-3 years.
I'm pretty sure they're snap frozen
Insomniac
09-07-12, 09:02 PM
Review/summary of The Secret Race:
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/media/books/Keyes-hamilton-the-secret-race.html?page=all
TravelGal
09-07-12, 11:25 PM
Review/summary of The Secret Race:
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/media/books/Keyes-hamilton-the-secret-race.html?page=all
A well written piece. I'll be interested to know if the book strikes everyone the same way. From this, it seems as if it will.
Ruh roh.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/10/anti-doping-agency-to-release-evidence-against-lance-armstrong/?hpt=hp_t1
The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency says it will release Wednesday more than 1,000 pages of evidence detailing the involvement of cyclist Lance Armstrong in what the agency calls "the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen."
-Kevin
cameraman
10-10-12, 04:15 PM
For over 30 years I have dedicated my life to cycling. I have always been determined to compete at the highest level, in one of the most physically demanding sports. With hard work and success have come great blessings from the sport I love.
Teammates have become dear friends and I have worked hard to earn the respect of my competitors. I have been associated with managers and team officials whose professionalism is unparalleled. Wonderful fans have supported my family and me since I began this great journey. For all of this and more, I am truly grateful and proud.
Because of my love for the sport, the contributions I feel I have made to it, and the amount the sport of cycling has given to me over the years, it is extremely difficult today to acknowledge that during a part of my career I used banned substances. Early in my professional career, it became clear to me that, given the widespread use of performance enhancing drugs by cyclists at the top of the profession, it was not possible to compete at the highest level without them. I deeply regret that choice and sincerely apologize to my family, teammates and fans.
Quietly, and in the way I know best, I have been trying to rectify that decision. I have competed clean and have not used any performance enhancing drugs or processes for the past six years. Since 2006, I have been working hard within the sport of cycling to rid it of banned substances. During this time, I continued to successfully compete at the highest level of cycling while mentoring young professional riders on the right choices to make to ensure that the culture of cycling had changed.
About two years ago, I was approached by US Federal investigators, and more recently by USADA, and asked to tell of my personal experience in these matters. I would have been much more comfortable talking only about myself, but understood that I was obligated to tell the truth about everything I knew. So that is what I did.
Cycling has made remarkable gains over the past several years and can serve as a good example for other sports. Thankfully, the use of performance enhancing drugs is no longer embedded in the culture of our sport, and younger riders are not faced with the same choice we had.
I am proud to be part of the cycling community, and believe we continue to make positive changes to our sport. I applaud the extraordinary achievements of my fellow riders on and off the bike. Cycling is an incredible sport that not only requires unbelievable physical ability to ride hundreds of miles a day for many days on end; it also requires a certain type of dedication, ambition and character. I have been fortunate to compete with teammates whose commitment and talent will be hard to match. As a rider I have dedicated a large part of my career to helping those teammates succeed. As I begin the next chapter in my cycling life, I look forward to playing a significant part in developing, encouraging and helping young riders to compete and win with the best in the world.
cameraman
10-13-12, 07:55 PM
EgTyYzWN234
cameraman
10-16-12, 03:35 PM
Leopard forced to fire Johan Bruyneel after Fabian Cancellara threatens to walk away from the team. Omega Pharma Lotto fired Levi Leipheimer especially since he didn't tell them a thing until one hour before the USADA report was leaked. That didn't impress them. Leipheimer wrote an op-ed in the WSJ claiming that essentially every top ride was doping. That has several top, well near top, riders a bit bent out of shape. The ones that were not doping are rather pissed as not every rider was doping, just a hell of a lot more than they had believed. It is going to be interesting, if quite depressing, as more and more riders, team principals, coaches, etc start to confess their sins.
Leopard forced to fire Johan Bruyneel after Fabian Cancellara threatens to walk away from the team. Omega Pharma Lotto fired Levi Leipheimer especially since he didn't tell them a thing until one hour before the USADA report was leaked. That didn't impress them. Leipheimer wrote an op-ed in the WSJ claiming that essentially every top ride was doping. That has several top, well near top, riders a bit bent out of shape. The ones that were not doping are rather pissed as not every rider was doping, just a hell of a lot more than they had believed. It is going to be interesting, if quite depressing, as more and more riders, team principals, coaches, etc start to confess their sins.
Matt White has confessed and quit his job as head of Orica-GreenEDGE. Some red faces at Cycling Australia at the moment.
Edit: White has now lost his job as the Australian coach.
Lance stepping down from Livestrong. :(
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20121017/cyc-armstrong-livestrong-future/
-Kevin
I look at this as a father, and it reminds me to make sure my kids don't fall for the hero worship trap. How many kids now are that much more cynical because of all this?
I personally don't care much about cycling, and I don't really have an opinion on the doping other than that, in general, it should be avoided if possible, but I DO care that this guy has been lying to us all this time. A supposed great man who achieved so much, but he insisted he had nothing to do with it when he was, in fact, the ringleader. Sad.
Nike bails on Lance, too. (http://www.cbssports.com/general/story/20577562/armstrong-stepping-down-as-livestrong-chairman)
-Kevin
Rogue Leader
10-17-12, 11:18 AM
You know I defended this guy till the end, because I wanted to believe. I didn't want to believe a hero of mine was just another fractured human.
But thats what he is, he is a sociopath and a liar, no better than the drug pushers before him, and no better than any of us.
Yeah I fell for it, I fell for hero worship, we have this human need for people to admire and aspire to.
Instead we have this guy, whom I now consider a scumbag, even if he did a lot of good, it doesn't outweigh the fact he is just as bad as any other cheating liar, people I detest.
People like him make me completely lose faith in society, one of Americas "heroes" is as scummy as they get.
It actually ties a knot in my stomach for supporting this guy, I guess thats one of the reasons why I enjoyed the Red Bull Stratos jump so much, because at least sometimes some people can make history without cheating.
Don Quixote
10-17-12, 12:12 PM
^^^ Well put. The reaction from some Lance worshippers that I know has been different, more along the lines of "so what, everybody else was doing it". They obviously are not offended by the lying. The whole mess is just sad.
You know I defended this guy till the end, because I wanted to believe. I didn't want to believe a hero of mine was just another fractured human.
But thats what he is, he is a sociopath and a liar, no better than the drug pushers before him, and no better than any of us.
Yeah I fell for it, I fell for hero worship, we have this human need for people to admire and aspire to.
Instead we have this guy, whom I now consider a scumbag, even if he did a lot of good, it doesn't outweigh the fact he is just as bad as any other cheating liar, people I detest.
People like him make me completely lose faith in society, one of Americas "heroes" is as scummy as they get.
Is this about Lance, or :tony: ?
Dirty Sanchez
10-17-12, 02:03 PM
http://memegusta.eu/img/upload/05062012191555-laughing-face-meme-597x772.png
to whoever said this was nothing more than a witch hunt. everyone in and around cycling knew that Lance doped. the point that everyone is missing is that revealing Lance for who he really is wasn't the endgame... the UCI itself is real fish here.
cameraman
10-17-12, 02:29 PM
Or the team principals who built & paid for the entire system.
Tifosi24
10-17-12, 08:51 PM
Or the team principals who built & paid for the entire system.
That is a great point. I would assume that Johan Bruyneel's career is over. Frankly, and this may be a correlation, but it looked to me that his abilities as a Team Principal decreased significantly once doping became more difficult. As evidenced by the past couple years, you don't need a culture of doping to produce quality cycling.
I will be the first to say I was never an Armstrong apologist (I remember being castigated in high school for saying that Armstrong's first TdF win didn't prove he was great because the past two winners didn't compete that year) but I like that he made cycling more popular. This is evident by the amount of people you see riding now. The unbelievable thing is the width and breadth of the fantasy world that he portrayed to the masses. Just bald faced lies in interviews and before large crowds of people. I watched a clip just recently from the Aspen Ideas Festival from a few years back and he talked 10 minutes straight about being clean, and it looked genuine. The man is 100 percent a sociopath, and I wouldn't be shocked if the TdF will have no winner between 1999 and 2006.
cameraman
10-19-12, 03:26 AM
Now it is getting really serious...
Rabobank will end its sponsorship of both the men’s and the women’s professional cycling teams per 31 December 2012. Rabobank will continue its ties with amateur cycling as a sponsor, including the youth training and the cyclocross team.
Rabobank has come to this decision following publication of the report from the American doping authority USADA last week. This report speaks volumes. Bert Bruggink, member of the Managing Board: “It is with pain in our heart, but for the bank this is an inevitable decision. We are no longer convinced that the international professional world of cycling can make this a clean and fair sport. We are not confident that this will change for the better in the foreseeable future.”http://www.rabosport.com/news/item/25789
and on the same day although not directly related...
The UCI is starting a doping lawsuit against Carlos Barredo (photo) following his blood passport and blood values concerning the 2007-2011 period (2007-2010 QuickStep, 2011 Rabobank Cycling Team). The Rabobank Cycling Team has taken notice of this decision today.
Before Carlos Barredo’s recruitment in 2011, the team conducted an extensive screening; Carlos Barredo does not count any violation of the doping regulation on his personal record, information about Barredo was obtained at the UCI, experts examined his blood and the doctor of his previous team, QuickStep, was consulted and issued a certificate of good behaviour.http://www.rabosport.com/news/item/25779
And another one...
Stephen Hodge has resigned as vice-president of Cycling Australia after admitting to doping during his professional career.
Link (Stephen Hodge has resigned as vice-president of Cycling Australia after admitting to doping during his professional career. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/cycling-australia-vicepresident-steps-down-after-admitting-to-doping-20121019-27ved.html#ixzz29k8lG3jM)
Don Quixote
10-19-12, 08:39 AM
I wonder what it is like to have your favorite sport just implode in front of your very eyes. Wait......
Haha, good point. They could take their marketing in a new direction:
Bicycle Racing -- Not Even Remotely as ****ed Up as Auto Racing
TravelGal
10-19-12, 01:43 PM
^^^ Well put. The reaction from some Lance worshippers that I know has been different, more along the lines of "so what, everybody else was doing it". They obviously are not offended by the lying. The whole mess is just sad.
I stood by him to the end also. Can still hardly believe it. He was one good liar. Although I always did wonder why Cheryl Crow dropped him like a hot potato.
That his apologists are not offended (betrayed, livid) is perhaps the very worst commentary on the whole situation.
Interesting graphic. (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/tour-de-france-doping-graphic)
It shows the drug cheats over the last 14 TDF's, and then eliminates them from the standings.
TravelGal
10-20-12, 11:03 AM
Interesting graphic. (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/tour-de-france-doping-graphic)
It shows the drug cheats over the last 14 TDF's, and then eliminates them from the standings.
:eek: Are we sure they have all come out of the woodwork yet?
cameraman
10-20-12, 12:31 PM
:eek: Are we sure they have all come out of the woodwork yet?
Oh hell no.
Napoleon
10-20-12, 05:58 PM
Lewis Black's take on Lance (this should be needless to say since it is Black, but NSFW)
http://www.thedailyshow.com/collection/420410/back-in-black/420068
cameraman
10-20-12, 06:05 PM
Another good long piece in the NY Times.
What is the deal with the DoJ dropping its case? I want to see that investigated more than anything else.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/sports/how-armstrongs-wall-fell-one-rider-at-a-time.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
:eek: Are we sure they have all come out of the woodwork yet?
No. That graphic only shows riders that have been caught though a test or testimony. There are strong suspicions about quite a few others on it.
For instance, in the 2005 TDF Cadel Evans in eighth is the first rider without any proof, or suspicion of, doping. So far.... :\
TravelGal
10-21-12, 08:59 AM
No. That graphic only shows riders that have been caught though a test or testimony. There are strong suspicions about quite a few others on it.
For instance, in the 2005 TDF Cadel Evans in eighth is the first rider without any proof, or suspicion of, doping. So far.... :\
Oh hell no.
I just learned that you can multi-quote a reply in any order you want. :)
Alas, they confirm what I thought. Brutal.
cameraman
10-21-12, 01:53 PM
The UCI's investigation du jour is looking at:
Michele Scarponi
Denis Menchov
Alexandre Vinokourov
Yaroslav Popovych
Volodymyr Bileka
Alexandr Kolobnev
Vladimir Karpets
Vladimir Gusev
Mikhail Ignatiev
Roman Kreuziger
Filippo Pozzato
Lorenzo Bertagnolli
Giovanni Visconti
Franco Pellizzotti
Not to mention a bunch of track & field athletes.
All are in relation to the good Dr. Michele Ferrari and now they are also looking at money laundering and tax evasion too.
TdFs Stripped. (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/22/cycling-body-to-rule-on-lance-armstrongs-tour-de-france-wins/)
:(
-Kevin
TrueBrit
10-22-12, 12:13 PM
I have to say that I feel completely gutted...i have steadfastly defended him but todays decision simply becomes the straw that broke the camels back...he is a fraud and a grade-a wanker and I hope he finally comes clean even though it may cost him dearly, because the only way he gets to have even the smallest shred of credibility is if he apologizes to the millions of people he duped into buying into his ********...excuse me, I now have to go and destroy all of my Livestrong gear..
Lux Interior
10-22-12, 01:13 PM
I asked a friend of mine who is heavy into competitive road cycling like Lance is. He said there is no way Lance could have won all those titles without doping on some level. However, he also said that everyone on that level dopes, so the playing field is leveled. He said some guys get caught because they are not sophiosticated enough, so Lance must have been very sophisticated.
My friends position was, if you strip the titles, who do you award them to? The entire top ten are all doping.
Rogue Leader
10-22-12, 01:14 PM
I asked a friend of mine who is heavy into competitive road cycling like Lance is. He said there is no way Lance could have won all those titles without doping on some level. However, he also said that everyone on that level dopes, so the playing field is leveled. He said some guys get caught because they are not sophiosticated enough, so Lance must have been very sophisticated.
My friends position was, if you strip the titles, who do you award them to? The entire top ten are all doping.
According to one site I read they are considering marking all 7 races as "no winner" because so many in the Peleton especially the top 10 have been busted already.
cameraman
10-22-12, 01:25 PM
They are going with no winner.
Napoleon
10-22-12, 02:09 PM
They are going with no winner.
I read they are simply vacating the races, not "just" stripping him of his title.
miatanut
10-22-12, 03:03 PM
Although I always did wonder why Cheryl Crow dropped him like a hot potato.
She wanted a baby, and when they started moving toward making it permanent she started pushing and scared him off. Her own words.
However, he also said that everyone on that level dopes, so the playing field is leveled. He said some guys get caught because they are not sophiosticated enough, so Lance must have been very sophisticated. The entire top ten are all doping.
That's where I am on this. He was better than the other dopers, and a large part of the sport is mental. Nobody can beat a good rider having a good day, but he was very good at breaking opponents by making them think he was having a good day while he felt like he was dying, just like the rest of them.
I was a fan of the sport in the '70's when doping was worse. I'm still a fan of The Animal, Eddy Merckx. It's a very competitive sport, and doping is just part of the culture of the sport.
NFL players end up crippled or mentally disabled. You don't see that level of disability in retired professional cyclists who doped, so it doesn't seem to have the cumulative destructive effects of NFL life.
cameraman
10-22-12, 03:09 PM
The doping most certainly did not level the field as the rich, hooked up racers along the lines of Armstrong had access to vastly superior doping technology.
Along those lines how did the US Postal crew manage to never get caught?
Can anyone say corruption? (http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/analysis/no-armstrong-never-tested-positive-but-how_261616)
Like we didn't know this was coming down the line:shakehead
And if you're looking for more reasons to hate on Armstrong just read up on Greg LeMond at wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Lemond
cameraman
10-22-12, 03:17 PM
What do you know, some good news:eek:
While SRAM is dropping Lance Armstrong like a hot potato, they have stated that they will continue to fund LiveStrong Foundation and the Bontrager-Livestrong developmental cycling team.
Nice to see a corporation not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Tifosi24
10-22-12, 08:10 PM
What do you know, some good news:eek:
While SRAM is dropping Lance Armstrong like a hot potato, they have stated that they will continue to fund LiveStrong Foundation and the Bontrager-Livestrong developmental cycling team.
Nice to see a corporation not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Great move by SRAM. I frankly had no idea Armstrong used their components and by maintaining their relationship with the new generation will help in their war against Shimano. More of a reason to get SRAM on the next bike, which I hope is next Spring.
And if you're looking for more reasons to hate on Armstrong just read up on Greg LeMond at wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Lemond
Wow, that is bad. I hadn't heard the bit about Lance using Trek to threaten LeMond's business. That sort of sours my good feelings toward Trek, as well. :irked:
LeMond was my biking hero. He was the American who was great when I was young enough to be into the sport. No one listened to him. In restrospect it could not be more obvious that the whole ****ing sport was corrupt from top to bottom.
TravelGal
10-22-12, 10:10 PM
Wow, that is bad. I hadn't heard the bit about Lance using Trek to threaten LeMond's business. That sort of sours my good feelings toward Trek, as well. :irked:
LeMond was my biking hero. He was the American who was great when I was young enough to be into the sport. No one listened to him. In restrospect it could not be more obvious that the whole ****ing sport was corrupt from top to bottom.
word
Don Quixote
10-23-12, 09:47 AM
Serious question: What are they going to do about all the other TDF ttles that were won during the doping period?
Is the doping a cause of his nut cancer?
I know growth 'roids cause everything to grow (incl cancer).
Tifosi24
10-24-12, 06:37 AM
Is the doping a cause of his nut cancer?
I know growth 'roids cause everything to grow (incl cancer).
Who knows? But, my guess is that it didn't; however, the peds and a cyclist's need to ignore pain probably let the cancer progress to the stage it reached.
opinionated ow
10-24-12, 07:38 AM
I've never cnsidered myself an Armstrong fan but I had believed that he was one of the rare clean ones at a time when doping was rife. It casts a terrific pall across the sport right when it doesn't need it. I hope for Armstrong's sake that he has a strong group of people around him because he's going to need all the mental and emotional support he can muster.
What I think WADA & the UCI need to ask themselves now is are we getting too ridiculous. We had a situation where Franck Schleck pulled out of le Tour because of a tiny trace of something that could have come from anywhere. It makes you question the process a little.
I spoke with the International Triathlon Union's WADA reps the other day and one of the interesting things they said is about the only place they come across drug code violations in triathlon is with wealthy middle-aged amateur long distance athletes. The sort of bank manager ironman devotees because they are pretty much the only ones who can afford it.
Insomniac
10-24-12, 11:02 AM
I believed him because I believed in the testing. That is even more disappointing that they were unable to catch him (and I'm sure so many others). And makes you wonder if they're any better now.
miatanut
10-25-12, 04:24 AM
Serious question: What are they going to do about all the other TDF ttles that were won during the doping period?
Considering the doping period is from the mid-1960's, if not earlier, to the present day, if they went that route, the last TdF was 1965. Or earlier.
LeMond claims he was clean, but the winners aren't clean. Among my treasured possessions are my photos of LeMond leading the Nevada City Classic when he was a teenager and was just a local legend. He had the mental and physical toughness to win at the top level. Against the other dopers.
When Breaking Away came out, and the kid got disillusioned with the sport when he learned what the Italians were really like, I thought how he really didn't know this sport. He had some fantasy of what it was. It's the greatest sport and the best will go to extreme measures to win.
Even with doping, it takes extreme mental toughness in addition to extreme physical strength to win.
They will come up with new tests, and the riders will come up with new tricks to beat the tests.
It's part of the sport and it always will be.
cameraman
10-25-12, 11:53 AM
And one more...
Dear Team Sky, family, friends, fans, and supporters of cycling,
I would like to preface this statement, by saying that while I don't expect all of you to believe some of the things that I am about to say, I don't want to insult anyone’s intelligence any longer and deny that I have never had anything to do with the shady past of professional cycling. This statement is about me and the decisions that I have made in the past.
I have recently made a full confession to Team Sky senior management about my doping history and understand that by doing so I will no longer be able to work for a dream team performing my dream job. I also understand that by doing this, I will have to face some more important consequences in the real world and with the people that matter the most to me.
I knew before I headed to our team meeting in London last week that we would all be asked about our past. I knew that this was going to be a pivotal point in my life and I decided to come clean not only to Team Sky but also to the sport and people that I love.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/exclusive-bobby-julich-doping-confession
Jeebus. :shakehead
-Kevin
Jeebus. :shakehead
-Kevin
Jeebus indeed. Where will it end.
Jeebus indeed. Where will it end.
The youngest g. was a freakin madman on the Radio Flyer tricycle. :\
opinionated ow
10-26-12, 08:32 PM
in related news (and no i'm not making this up), the UCI has announced that Pinocchio will be the mascot for next year's Road World Championships in Tuscany...
edit:
http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/resize/file/3177_toscana-640-supplied.jpg/id/34293/w/640/h/360
cameraman
10-27-12, 02:33 AM
And the TdF wants $4million in prize money back from Lance...
Cuts all ties to Livestrong.
http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/8622941/lance-armstrong-cuts-formal-ties-livestrong-charity
:saywhat:
-Kevin
Lux Interior
11-14-12, 01:44 AM
His cycling issues have nothing to do with the mission of Livestrong, yet they were probably creating bad press. He was smart to step away. Too bad though because he founded it.
So, what does Lance do now? He must be doing some serious soul-searching.
Tifosi24
11-14-12, 08:33 AM
His cycling issues have nothing to do with the mission of Livestrong, yet they were probably creating bad press. He was smart to step away. Too bad though because he founded it.
So, what does Lance do now? He must be doing some serious soul-searching.
Actually, based on a twitter photo yesterday, it appears that he continues to be a Grade A Richard. As he steps down from Livestrong, he sends a photo of himself relaxing on the couch surrounded by his "winning" TdF jerseys.
I checked out Livestrong after this story broke, and it is an excellent charity, not a rip-off (cough... Susan G. Komen... cough). I suppose if he did nothing else good, this part of his legacy is a shining example of the good someone can do with celebrity.
Rogue Leader
11-14-12, 10:14 AM
I checked out Livestrong after this story broke, and it is an excellent charity, not a rip-off (cough... Susan G. Komen... cough). I suppose if he did nothing else good, this part of his legacy is a shining example of the good someone can do with celebrity.
yeah you definitely 100% cannot fault Livestrong, it really is one of the best charities out there, too bad its champion is a scumbag.
Doesn't it bother anyone else that livestrong does not fund any cancer research with all the money they take in. The charity is about cancer awareness, but are we not already aware of it?
Doesn't it bother anyone else that livestrong does not fund any cancer research with all the money they take in. The charity is about cancer awareness, but are we not already aware of it?
Kind of depends, I guess. Maybe they are trying to find a better way to ask for "a million $$'s to find a million cures for a million types of cancers".
http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd042009s.gif
cameraman
11-19-12, 12:58 AM
http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd042009s.gif
That's gospel right there. It's been common knowledge among biologists for years now. But with the new high throughput sequencers and microarrays they are finally getting a handle on sorting out those myriad cancers. It has/will really improve the accuracy of the treatments. But cancer isn't ever going to go away, we will just get better at treating it.
www.phdcomics.com is usually painfully funny, it really hits close to the bone...
And LiveStrong doesn't do cancer research, they do cancer public health & patient support. Quite frankly LiveStrong has more of a positive effect on individual cancer patients than many of the other fund raisers. They do a very good job at what they do which is why I'm glad to see Armstrong walk away from it.
May be weighing PED admission. :shakehead
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/05/sports/cycling/lance-armstrong-said-to-weigh-admission-of-doping.html?hp&_r=1&
-Kevin
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.