View Full Version : Revolt like an Egyptian
racer2c
02-05-11, 09:54 AM
But when a source is suspect for whatever reason, we should be able to question the veracity of its reporting. And sometimes that reason has to do with the source being primarily devoted to propaganda from whatever side.
It seems to me that solid critical thinking is more important than avoiding offense, particularly when one side of an argument uses being offended as a tactic to avoid losing the argument.
:laugh:
WickerBill
02-05-11, 12:03 PM
Nap, I respect your opinion to not believe anything until you hear it from someone you deem credible; however, I believe the age of big media actually breaking news, e.g. Cosell announcing Lennon's death to the USA, is over. While the journalistic integrity of blogs and non-standard sources must be a talking point, their lack of a press pass doesn't mean they're automatically wrong.
In the days since this incident started, the news has been wild and varied on a day-to-day basis. I believe we are here discussing this because we simply don't know. Therefore, disagree all you like, please do, but when a predominant Russian newspaper (pro-Palestine) and an Israeli daily paper (http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=206725) report mostly the same thing, it seems unlikely to me that there isn't a good deal of truth in it.
That's my take, I'm sure you detest it, but there it is...
But when a source is suspect for whatever reason, we should be able to question the veracity of its reporting. And sometimes that reason has to do with the source being primarily devoted to propaganda from whatever side.
The notion that sources can be dismissed entirely based on their political bent isn't "questioning veracity". That's purely a political judgment, "people of this political bent cannot be trusted."
It's entirely fair to observe that this was a report from a single source which hasn't been verified by any other source, simply cited. Other sources have attempted to question the MB about their position on the Israeli, Egyptian peace agreement. The closest thing to a straight answer that I've ssen was that they would observe it initially but that it would be up to the will of the people and that no agreement is eternal.
It seems to me that solid critical thinking is more important than avoiding offense, particularly when one side of an argument uses being offended as a tactic to avoid losing the argument.
Did you really just invoke "critical thinking" and then throw in an ad hominem attack against an individual? :shakehead
the MB spawns splinter groups precisely because of its non-violent stance, they've even published a book about their non violent aims decades ago. to the extent that they take a less friendly stance towards Israel, guess Israel should've done a better job managing its relations with Turkey... they're an islamist group, but they're not al qaeda either
I think the concern about MB has more to do with their future than with their past or present. Will their policies change once a non-violent stance is no longer essential to their existence in Egypt?
further, this is far more akin to Turkey than Iran, the army is completely in control and is secular.
Right, as I've said to consolidate power the MB would have to militarize and the army isn't going to permit that.
I think the biggest danger going forward is not an all-out Islamic Republic in Egypt. It's a young democracy led to imprudent decisions by a mix of Islamists and Arab nationalists.
Methanolandbrats
02-05-11, 08:42 PM
I think the biggest danger going forward is not an all-out Islamic Republic in Egypt. It's a young democracy led to imprudent decisions by a mix of Islamists and Arab nationalists.
What exactly should an Arab country be ruled by? After over a century of colonialism and being treated like **** by the west and their little pit bull Israel, maybe they are kinda tired of it.
^Good points that can't be overlooked.
redacted
I'm trying to reduce the political content so we can keep this thread open. That's not helpful.
It seems to me that solid critical thinking is more important than avoiding offense, particularly when one side of an argument uses being offended as a tactic to avoid losing the argument.
Did you really just invoke "critical thinking" and then throw in an ad hominem attack against an individual? :shakehead
That was not an ad hominem attack. I am implying nothing about the substance of the arguments in question. I am just pointing out that seeming to be offended is an effective way to shut down a discussion when the forum is moderated in order to eliminate any sort of political offense.
racer2c
02-06-11, 11:11 AM
Well, kudos and thanks to the mods for keeping this thread open even though it has digressed into arguing valid media sources, moderating tactics, and petty jabs at opposing political views. I'm sure this thread is trying the bosses patience. It is clear that there are two groups of members with strong opposing views based on political orientation. If we want this thread and others to remain open, I think we need to establish a few debate rules beyond that of the boards, such as amicable communication that diffuses a hot debate point. Also, an agreed upon media pool, maybe 2 from the left, 2 from the right, or maybe the bosses choose them, as it is their board. Just thinking out loud. If the bosses lock the thread and chastise us would be a disappointing end considering the topic.
Maybe one or two narrowly perceived sides don't fit all.
racer2c
02-06-11, 11:57 AM
Maybe one or two narrowly perceived sides don't fit all.
So true. Good point.
Insomniac
02-06-11, 12:01 PM
Well, kudos and thanks to the mods for keeping this thread open even though it has digressed into arguing valid media sources, moderating tactics, and petty jabs at opposing political views. I'm sure this thread is trying the bosses patience. It is clear that there are two groups of members with strong opposing views based on political orientation. If we want this thread and others to remain open, I think we need to establish a few debate rules beyond that of the boards, such as amicable communication that diffuses a hot debate point. Also, an agreed upon media pool, maybe 2 from the left, 2 from the right, or maybe the bosses choose them, as it is their board. Just thinking out loud. If the bosses lock the thread and chastise us would be a disappointing end considering the topic.
Yikes. I'd like to think people are capable of keeping themselves in line. (especially after having the moderators point out what is too far, and the poster didn't think was.)
This is a very complex problem. If it wasn't, people wouldn't be debating this for over 50 years.
racer2c
02-06-11, 12:12 PM
Yikes. I'd like to think people are capable of keeping themselves in line. (especially after having the moderators point out what is too far, and the poster didn't think was.)
This is a very complex problem. If it wasn't, people wouldn't be debating this for over 50 years.
You've been around boards long enough to know that's not true. :)
The problem is that the discussion has digressed even to the point of debating with the board owner on semantics.
Yikes. I'd like to think people are capable of keeping themselves in line. (especially after having the moderators point out what is too far, and the poster didn't think was.)
This is a very complex problem. If it wasn't, people wouldn't be debating this for over 50 years.
Good point. And as seen it's very hard to convey across the board.
Yes, it is a very complex history that far exceeds and encompasses much more than the main topic of interest here in the last 50+ years.
Thanks for the concern but we'll be fine. I'm just trying to remind people of what's ok and what's not so that we don't have to keep whacking posts or close the thread entirely.
Notice has been served so if you post a masterwork of logic and argument and lose it because you couldn't resist throwing in a political epithet - c'est la vie.
Encouraging announcement from the VP. If the populous accept it then it sounds like it could be the basis for a smooth transition to democracy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/06/AR2011020601767.html
Insomniac
02-06-11, 06:28 PM
Thanks for the concern but we'll be fine. I'm just trying to remind people of what's ok and what's not so that we don't have to keep whacking posts or close the thread entirely.
Notice has been served so if you post a masterwork of logic and argument and lose it because you couldn't resist throwing in a political epithet - c'est la vie.
I'm upset I can't use "poopy pants". :D
The problem is that the discussion has digressed even to the point of debating with the board owner on semantics.
Semantics? I was arguing with the substance of what he said. He accused me of making an ad hominem attack, and he was wrong. That doesn't mean I do not respect him and his opinions in general (or yours, for that matter), however if we are having a discussion about this or anything else within topics acceptable to this board we should be free to express our opinions, within the rules.
I come here because I think this is a remarkably intelligent group of people and what is written is interesting and educational. When someone challenges my beliefs I am grateful for the opportunity to reconsider them. I will endeavor not to be demeaning or otherwise dismissive, and I hope we can continue to have stimulating discussions.
Reports of a worker strike along the Suez Canal appear to be incorrect.
Operations are unaffected.
http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/02/08/update-no-suez-strike-says-dow-jones/
racer2c
02-10-11, 11:42 AM
Watching live news now...speculation that Mubarak is about to announce he's stepping down. Reports say the crowds are tense with anticipation.
Watching live news now...speculation that Mubarak is about to announce he's stepping down. Reports say the crowds are tense with anticipation.
I wonder if those crowds had in mind a military takeover?
Still no telling where this will end up.
Sounds like the military didn't much like his 5 year plan and told him to GTFO.
(that was the speculation earlier, or I should say, my interpretation of it)
It appears all the 'news reports' this morning were wrong. :rolleyes:
Oh man. The only thing worse than not stepping down, is getting everyone's hopes up that you've finally seen the light and then crushing their dreams by refusing to step down.
This only feeds the fear that Mubarak can't be trusted and that he won't leave in September if the protests stop. :shakehead
racer2c
02-10-11, 09:19 PM
Oh man. The only thing worse than not stepping down, is getting everyone's hopes up that you've finally seen the light and then crushing their dreams by refusing to step down.
This only feeds the fear that Mubarak can't be trusted and that he won't leave in September if the protests stop. :shakehead
Yep. Tomorrow will be very interesting.
stroker
02-10-11, 10:18 PM
Yep. Tomorrow will be very interesting.
Man, that's an understatement if I ever heard one...
I doubt the Israeli Air Force is getting much sleep these days.
racer2c
02-10-11, 10:34 PM
Man, that's an understatement if I ever heard one...
I doubt the Israeli Air Force is getting much sleep these days.
News cast tonight reported skirmishes on the order.
Methanolandbrats
02-10-11, 10:37 PM
Oh **** it. Just make some popcorn and relax. The only thing that will change is it will cost American taxpayers more money to bribe all these ********ers on all sides so the dust up ends. ****ing Israel will want a bigger allowance too. What else is new. :mad:
gone.
Maybe Cairo won't burn.
February 11, 2011
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8396/flagofegypt.jpg
:thumbup:
cameraman
02-11-11, 01:29 PM
It looks like he floated that speech as a last chance bid to keep a lid on things and when it sank like a stone he stepped down. Forced or not he could have made it far worse for the country. I'm sure that the strongly worded complete lack of support from the US helped a little bit in pushing him out the door. Now let's see if they can keep their **** together long enough to come up with a decent government.
Forced or not he could have made it far worse for the country.
That's been my thought from the start. It could have been a larger bloody mess. Hopefully that speaks to where this goes from here.
racer2c
02-11-11, 02:35 PM
Abdel-Rahman Samir, one of the youth organizers of the protests, said the protest movement would now open negotiations with the military over democratic reform but vowed protests would continue to ensure change is carried out.
"We still don't have any guarantees yet -- if we end the whole situation now the it's like we haven't done anything," he said. "So we need to keep sitting in Tahrir until we get all our demands."
stroker
02-11-11, 03:21 PM
What makes me want to cue up Steve Martin?
Sorry. I have to post this.
Outdone by the Egyptians
http://i.imgur.com/SlbMN.jpg
:laugh:
Epic Bread Man rules.
racer2c
02-11-11, 05:00 PM
How many protesters on the Washington Mall would it take to oust a US administration? :confused:
Insomniac
02-11-11, 05:21 PM
Protesters. :rofl: I doubt there are enough people who would bother to do that.
racer2c
02-11-11, 05:24 PM
Protesters. :rofl: I doubt there are enough people who would bother to do that.
What's "enough"?
How many protesters on the Washington Mall would it take to oust a US administration? :confused:
Protesters wouldn't cut it. There are only three approved methods of removing a sitting President.
Vote him out.
Wait him out.
Take him out.
All other options will be ignored, co-opted, or put down.
racer2c
02-11-11, 05:45 PM
Protesters wouldn't cut it. There are only three approved methods of removing a sitting President.
Vote him out.
Wait him out.
Take him out.
All other options will be ignored, co-opted, or put down.
Correct! A silly proposition I admit, but when compared to the events in Tunisia and Egypt (and reportedly it is starting in other countries) its amazing how "easy" it was, to the amazement of many of the so called "experts".
Now I'm reading that this was a fuse heading for the powder keg.
Methanolandbrats
02-11-11, 06:06 PM
As long as there is Bud in the fridge, gas for the snowmobile and the "big game" is on, most Americans sit by in ignorant bliss, unaware they are being ass-raped by the corporate welfare state. Hard to draft a revolution from that population.
TrueBrit
02-11-11, 06:33 PM
As long as there is Bud in the fridge, gas for the snowmobile and the "big game" is on, most Americans sit by in ignorant bliss, unaware they are being ass-raped by the corporate welfare state. Hard to draft a revolution from that population.
Oh crap, I agree with Gas 'n' Sausages again...:eek:;)
WickerBill
02-11-11, 07:14 PM
It would have to be a military coup d'état in the US. For a number of reasons, not the least of which is the scope of what it would take to effectively "revolt" in the US. Egypt is twice the size, maybe 3x the size, of New Mexico, and only 5% of that land is densely populated. You shut down Cairo, you shut down Egypt. You shut down DC, the country carries on in NY, Chicago, LA, Dallas, etc.
Insomniac
02-12-11, 12:41 PM
What's "enough"?
I wasn't alive then, and perhaps it's glamorized now, but I can't think of any recent protest/march that comes close to the size of the Vietnam war protests. I may be wrong, but it at least seemed like people cared more (and were willing to show it) 30-40 years ago.
Now the vocal get their "beliefs" from the media and write stupid comments on web sites.
There was an article on Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/02/why-times-will-lose-to-huffpo/all/1) about The Huffington Post and New York Times. It was more about why one seems more popular than the other.
As I was reading it, my thoughts were that vast majority (close to all) of the people who read the HuffPo story don't click through to the original story (I think the same for many aggregation sites, Engadget, Autoblog, etc.). So they take the quick summary provided by the blog post as the news.
ADD is crushing us. People don't want to read (or write) 10,000 word articles when they can read a blog (or even a tweet) that summarizes it for them.
People won't be protesting on the National Mall until they are affected. So that means when (maybe if) the country is bankrupt and entitlements are cut. Then enough people will be bothered by something that affects them personally. (Even then, I'd venture to guess that when they cut entitlements they will do it in small phases so those affected are a smaller % at a time and by the time they accept it, it will be another groups turn.)
Methanolandbrats
02-12-11, 01:59 PM
Enough? Here's a graph of GDP and median family income
http://lanekenworthy.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/slowincomegrowth-figure1-version1.png If this trend continues until a couple percent of the population own EVERYTHING, that might be enough.
Interesting to see when that down trend in median income started.
As long as there is Bud in the fridge, gas for the snowmobile and the "big game" is on, most Americans sit by in ignorant bliss, unaware they are being ass-raped by the corporate welfare state. Hard to draft a revolution from that population.
Where is that "Like" button?
Methanolandbrats
02-12-11, 04:15 PM
Interesting to see when that down trend in median income started.
It is interesting. Almost like somebody destroyed the labor movement and granted Wall Street and corporate America a license to export jobs and wealth overseas while lining their own pockets and destroying the middle class. That is not a political statement, it's what happened and continues to happen and blame is shared by all parties and administrations.
We've drifted off topic again.
TKGAngel
02-12-11, 06:52 PM
ADD is crushing us. People don't want to read (or write) 10,000 word articles when they can read a blog (or even a tweet) that summarizes it for them.
But don't forget that there is still a large population segment that still uses the internets solely for lolcats, Facebook and email and wouldn't know what a blog or content aggregator was. I watched our local media contort themselves last week trying to explain Gawker to the audience because of the role the site played in the ex-Rep Lee scandal.
Back on topic, CNN posted a commentary (http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/02/11/sifry.egypt.technology/index.html?hpt=C1) discussing just how much of a role the internet may or may not have played in the revolution. I just wonder if the internet will be added to the list of media controlled by future regimes to prevent something like this from happening again.
racer2c
02-12-11, 07:45 PM
Playing the role of the "I know what's best" elitist is walking on thin ice...the ignorant masses will surprise you every time.
cameraman
02-13-11, 12:26 AM
I watched our local media contort themselves last week trying to explain Gawker to the audience because of the role the site played in the ex-Rep Lee scandal.
Explain Gawker? They're an NYC gossip blog, pretty simple really.
Explain Gawker? They're an NYC gossip blog, pretty simple really.
Or east coast TMZ.
-Kevin
TKGAngel
02-13-11, 01:08 PM
Explain Gawker? They're an NYC gossip blog, pretty simple really.
You know that, and I know that. However, there are a lot of people out there who don't. (Strangely enough, my pops didn't know Gawker, but knew Deadspin. Go figure.)
Insomniac
02-13-11, 02:34 PM
Explain Gawker? They're an NYC gossip blog, pretty simple really.
Or Page Six online.
datachicane
02-13-11, 03:52 PM
As I was reading it, my thoughts were that vast majority (close to all) of the people who read the HuffPo story don't click through to the original story (I think the same for many aggregation sites, Engadget, Autoblog, etc.). So they take the quick summary provided by the blog post as the news.
ADD is crushing us. People don't want to read (or write) 10,000 word articles when they can read a blog (or even a tweet) that summarizes it for them.
Then again, what percentage of traditional newspaper readers 30 years ago bothered to read beyond the first paragraph into that 10,000 word article in the first place? Not bloody many I'd wager. There have always been detail-driven news junkies, and a (much larger) group of casual news consumers. Not much has changed there.
I've been as outraged at domestic politics over the last couple of decades as anyone, but frankly, if you think the kinds of things that pass for problems here hold a candle to the sorts of things that folks in much of the world (like Egypt) endure you've led a blessedly sheltered life. With a few notable exceptions, our 'outrages' are vaporware concocted by marketers in order to motivate voters to replace the sitting pol in favor of the new and improved version, or to solicit campaign contributions towards the same. It's a successful and profitable industry. What has changed over the last 30+ years is the extent to which this industry has managed to co-opt real news and objective reality for it's own goals- a disturbing percentage of the 'stories' on your local news or in your local fishrag are provided by these firms ready-to-go- no actual reporter or payroll necessary.
Manipulate public opinion and you manipulate the public. It takes deep pockets, but there's money to be made...
racer2c
02-13-11, 05:04 PM
Nudge by Cass Sunstein
Military says that they're not going to hand over authoritah to a civilian body until elections can be held. Hopefully they're sincere in the "until" part and the populous will accept that.
CBS Sunday Morning has an interesting piece on Egypt. Since Farouk, all of Egypt's heads of state have been military. Good luck on getting the military to relinquish control now.
The military has shown restraint and good judgement during the past two weeks, with the exception of letting the thugs attack the protesters.
Dissolving the Parliament and suspending the constitution could be a power grab or an effort to clean house of Mubarak's officials. They say they want to amend the constitution by popular referendum and hold elections. If they don't, the protesters will be back.
In other news...
Iran has caught the revolution fever:
"Death to the Dictator."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-middle-east-protests-20110215,0,5904035.story
Iran has caught the revolution fever:
Let's hope Chavez is next after Iran. Notice that Castro has been VERY silent of late. :thumbup:
-Kevin
It will be interesting to see if things can go anywhere in Iran. There is no change of the military siding with the protesters there and the regime's thugs can pretty much run rampant.
TravelGal
02-15-11, 02:10 PM
Let's hope Chavez is next after Iran. Notice that Castro has been VERY silent of late. :thumbup:
-Kevin
Kevin, you've commented on that a couple of times. The situation there is quite different. Castro, the older, (Fidel) is still very popular with the people. Yes, they want change but if he's a thug, he's THEIR thug. They are proud to have someone ruling them that, for the first time in the entire history of the island, is a Cuban who came to power because he was supported by Cubans. He finally ceded power to Castro, the younger, (Raul) once and for all a couple of years ago which allowed Raul to begin to make steady progress in opening things up and changing lifestyles. It's a massively long road and may have a revolt or two ahead but it will be because of the pace of change, not for change itself.
Kevin, you've commented on that a couple of times. The situation there is quite different. Castro, the older, (Fidel) is still very popular with the people. Yes, they want change but if he's a thug, he's THEIR thug. They are proud to have someone ruling them that, for the first time in the entire history of the island, is a Cuban who came to power because he was supported by Cubans. He finally ceded power to Castro, the younger, (Raul) once and for all a couple of years ago which allowed Raul to begin to make steady progress in opening things up and changing lifestyles. It's a massively long road and may have a revolt or two ahead but it will be because of the pace of change, not for change itself.
My initial comment was about Castro being US backed vs. Batista, but ended up being anti-US and pro-Soviet. Yes, Fidel ceded power to his son, but it's a thin line b/w being supported and ousted in this day and age. In any case, both are authoritarian governments, and popular opinion can change on a dime in the current social networking environment. I'm not saying the Cubans will revolt any time soon, just that that Castros have been very silent of late.
-Kevin
chop456
02-15-11, 02:43 PM
Yes, Fidel ceded power to his son
Maybe you should stick to hating on us Wisconsin people. :D
Now it's getting serious. They say Bahrain has caught the revolution fever.
The Bahrain F1 race is March 13. How do the protesters feel about KERS?
Maybe you should stick to hating on us Wisconsin people. :D
I don't hate Wisconsin people...my folks lived in Madison for several years. I just hate UW. :p All hail the state bird of Wishconsin....the skeeter! :gomer:
-Kevin
Don Quixote
02-15-11, 03:45 PM
I don't hate Wisconsin people I do. :D :p
racer2c
02-15-11, 04:33 PM
I think Microsoft should send a couple of their Bing executives to Iran to help organize a revolution. Then it could be like the extended battlefield between Google vs Bing.
I do. :D :p
Now, now...be nice to our summer-challenged friends from southern Canuckistan. Keep in mind that there are two seasons in Wisky...winter and skeeter season. :D
-Kevin
TKGAngel
02-15-11, 08:32 PM
What an awful, awful story (http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/cbs-lara-logan-suffered-brutal-attack-in-cairo/?hp) about what happened to CBS Correspondent Lara Logan in Cairo last Friday. :(
According to reports, she was rescued by Egyptian women and soldiers.
Unfortunately, their bravery and humanity will not be enough to prevent the wonderful celebration of freedom in Tahrir Square from being tainted by a bunch of sub-human, evil bastards.
They're going to go from the "Lion-hearted Egyptians in Tahrir Square" to the racist mob of rapists. ****!
chop456
02-16-11, 02:13 AM
I don't hate Wisconsin people...my folks lived in Madison for several years. I just hate UW. :p All hail the state bird of Wishconsin....the skeeter! :gomer:
-Kevin
Raul Castro is not Fidel's son. Nor is he from Wisconsin. ;)
cameraman
02-16-11, 03:25 AM
Raul Castro is Fidel's younger brother.
Helio Castro is Fidel's dancing instructor and sometimes overnight guest.
Raul Castro is not Fidel's son. Nor is he from Wisconsin. ;)
Yes, my bad for multi-multi-multi tasking...but I'm not certain about the not from Wishconsin thing. Rumor is Bo Ryan may be Chavez's twin. :gomer:
-Kevin
racer2c
02-16-11, 12:37 PM
What an awful, awful story (http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/cbs-lara-logan-suffered-brutal-attack-in-cairo/?hp) about what happened to CBS Correspondent Lara Logan in Cairo last Friday. :(
Horrible. When I first saw this story I assumed it occurred prior to Mubarak leaving and was probably perpetrated by the groups of thugs who were stirring things up. I was surprised as I read on, that this actually occured during the post Mubarak celebration.
Egypt is not a free society. Yes, it is free of Mubarak's rule. But its women - even when shrouded in the hejab - are not free to pass through the street without being groped and catcalled. In 2008, as Slate reporter Sarah Topol noted, a study by the Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights reported that 83 percent of women experienced harassment - and that 98 percent of foreign women visitors did. And 62 percent of men admitted to perpetrating it. Living in the United States, I take for granted my ability to walk unmolested in the street. I don't believe this could have happened here. And the idea that such a horror could take place in the midst not of pervasive violence but of celebration is especially shocking...
...It is not cultural imperialism to state that women have the right not to be assaulted, regardless of race, creed, or country. Link (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/compost/2011/02/what_happened_to_lara_logan_wa.html)
WickerBill
02-16-11, 04:34 PM
Every last one of them. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,745526,00.html)
Horrible. When I first saw this story I assumed it occurred prior to Mubarak leaving and was probably perpetrated by the groups of thugs who were stirring things up. I was surprised as I read on, that this actually occured during the post Mubarak celebration.
Honestly, it was foolish of her and her bosses to put her in that position. Obviously every person has the human right to go about their business without being assaulted, sexually or otherwise. But under the circumstances they should have seen the risk in her situation.
Many men in that culture consider that a woman with an uncovered head is asking for it. In the case of a blond, uncovered head they can be confident that she's not Muslim and therefore they are free to sexually assault her without fear of retribution from their God.
I'm not saying that all Muslims think this way, but it's sadly all too common.
See, for example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6086374.stm
RaceGrrl
02-17-11, 12:49 AM
My friend who travels to Egypt twice a year on business never goes out in public without the hijab and abaya to cover herself. She is a tall, pale blonde and is obviously not Egyptian, although she speaks Arabic and is Muslim. She plays it very smart when she's there. I feel bad for the reporter, but I do think smart thing to do would have been to cover up. Not sure it would have made any difference in that crowd though- that anger was bound to land somewhere.
Anger? I think not. The men who raped her did it because they could. They saw her, they wanted her, they took her.
Not anger, just pure barbarism.
cameraman
02-17-11, 10:24 AM
This weekend's GP2 asia race in Bahrain has been cancelled due to unrest. For a good bit of information about the goings on in Bahrain I present an F1 journalist...
Will Buxton (http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/)
What an absolutely idiotic way to handle the situation.
Now there's been an outbreak of Revolution fever in Wisconsin. ;)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12498249
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/707/17wisconsin2337inlinepo.jpg
racer2c
02-17-11, 02:01 PM
Now there's been an outbreak of Revolution fever in Wisconsin. ;)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12498249
Somewhere George Soros is smiling.
Will Buxton (http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/)
What an absolutely idiotic way to handle the situation.
Where's Jack Arute when you need him? Who better to report how everyone is feeling?
Now there's been an outbreak of Revolution fever in Wisconsin. ;)
WTF?!? Did they announce free beer @ Dotty Dumpling's Dowry?
http://www.dottydumplingsdowry.com/
:D :p
We're having the same issue here with Bill 5. I want to support our public service friends, but we're facing a $2B budget deficit and can't print $$$ like Super Prez. :saywhat:
-Kevin
School teachers in WI playing hookie to go hang out at the state capital. I don't suppose their contracts allow them to be disciplined for these actions. :irked:
stroker
02-17-11, 04:58 PM
School teachers in WI playing hookie to go hang out at the state capital. I don't suppose their contracts allow them to be disciplined for these actions. :irked:
the kids are probably learning more without most of them in the class anyway.
:p
TKGAngel
02-17-11, 05:08 PM
School teachers in WI playing hookie to go hang out at the state capital. I don't suppose their contracts allow them to be disciplined for these actions. :irked:
I don't know about the Badgers, but NY has a law stating that if public employees strike (not the same as this situation, of course), that they are docked two days pay for every one day that they are out on strike. There may also be additional fines and jail time.
While other nations are fighting for democracy and reform, we're fighting against having to pay into our own retirement and health care funds. What a contrast, eh?
What stuck me, in the CNN report, was that in some districts 40% called in sick forcing the district to shut down. Obviously most are not actually sick so they lied to their employer. IMO they are effectively on strike. I have no idea what the rules are in WI for this stuff. I'd be pissed if I lived there.
Plus I imagine the WI taxpayers will have to pay for additional school days at the end of the year to make up for this.
Somewhere George Soros is smiling.
Somewhere the Koch Brothers are dancing a jig.
racer2c
02-18-11, 10:12 AM
Somewhere the Koch Brothers are dancing a jig.
If I had their money...I'd be dancing a jig too. I thank god every day I live in a country where I can pursue my dreams of fortune. :thumbup:
cameraman
02-18-11, 10:27 AM
If I had their money...I'd be dancing a jig too. I thank god every day I live in a country where I can pursue my dreams of fortune. :thumbup:
Or be trust fund babies.
Don Quixote
02-18-11, 10:55 AM
I never understood how someone could work for 25 years, and then retire with full benefits and a full salary for the rest of their lives, without ever paying a dime of their own money into a retirement account. I guess the economics of this scheme just don't work. Wait, are we talking about Egypt?
Wait, are we talking about Egypt?
Not that I've noticed recently. I'd like to leave this open for any new developments but folks are really making it difficult.
Sorry boss, Gnam started it. :D
datachicane
02-18-11, 11:44 AM
I never understood how someone could work for 25 years, and then retire with full benefits and a full salary for the rest of their lives, without ever paying a dime of their own money into a retirement account. I guess the economics of this scheme just don't work. Wait, are we talking about Egypt?
It's a cost-shifting measure negotiated by the employer in lieu of paying higher wages.
It's all fine and good until it occurs to the employer that they'll actually need to pay that money some day. The problem with the economics is that a reasonable person faced with that commitment would realize that they need to listen to their actuaries and adequately fund the thing now rather than passing the buck to the next management regime.
I blame the Egyptians. :D
Insomniac
02-18-11, 05:32 PM
It's a cost-shifting measure negotiated by the employer in lieu of paying higher wages.
It's all fine and good until it occurs to the employer that they'll actually need to pay that money some day. The problem with the economics is that a reasonable person faced with that commitment would realize that they need to listen to their actuaries and adequately fund the thing now rather than passing the buck to the next management regime.
Also, for many of these, the system can be gamed to grossly increase the payout by exaggerating near-retirement pay.
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