To Syria, with love

[stroker]

I'm glad you are aware of what they are on about Boss, I have no idea. :confused: :D

+1

[SurfaceUnits]

Some of us have a bit more stringent threshold for plausibility.

Al Gore? :laugh:

Royal Navy vessels are being readied to take part in a possible series of cruise missile strikes, alongside the United States, as military commanders finalise a list of potential targets.

Government sources said talks between the Prime Minister and international leaders, including Barack Obama, would continue, but that any military action that was agreed could begin within the next week.

As the preparations gathered pace, William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, warned that the world could not stand by and allow the Assad regime to use chemical weapons against the Syrian people “with impunity”.

Britain, the US and their allies must show Mr Assad that to perpetrate such an atrocity “is to cross a line and that the world will respond when that line is crossed”, he said.

British forces now look likely to be drawn into an intervention in the Syrian crisis after months of deliberation and international disagreement over how to respond to the bloody two-year civil war.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10265765/Navy-ready-to-launch-first-strike-on-Syria.html

[Gnam]

Secretary of State John Kerry will make a statement about Syria shortly.

http://www.boston.com/news/source/2013/08/secretary_kerry_kerry_makes_a_statement_on_syria.h tml

I wonder if Assad's forces would negotiate if Assad was assassinated.

update:
ewAn3CfhS9E

Kerry did not make any demands on Syria or forecast any US action, except "serious scrutiny". He also didn't take any questions. Just made clear what the administration believes to be fact.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/john-kerry-chemical-weapons-were-used-in-syria

[Gnam]

Syria crisis: warplanes spotted in Cyprus as tensions rise in Damascus

Warplanes and military transporters have begun arriving at Britain's Akrotiri airbase on Cyprus, less than 100 miles from the Syrian coast, in a sign of increasing preparations for a military strike against the Assad regime in Syria.

Two commercial pilots who regularly fly from Larnaca on Monday told the Guardian that they had seen C-130 transport planes from their cockpit windows as well as small formations of fighter jets on their radar screens, which they believe had flown from Europe.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/26/syria-warplanes-cyprus-tensions-damascus
Pretty thin. Some pilots saw some planes. Still...

What worries me is that unlike Iraq, Syria has allies with interests in Assad's survival. Saddam was much more isolated, there were fewer players, and the potential for escalation was much smaller.

[SurfaceUnits]

Pretty thin. Some pilots saw some planes. Still...

What worries me is that unlike Iraq, Syria has allies with interests in Assad's survival. Saddam was much more isolated, there were fewer players, and the potential for escalation was much smaller.

Damascus will be a ruinous heap, when all is said and done

What happens when China gets tired of how Washington, D.C. uses the money it borrows.

[Gnam]

No Regime Change

The Obama administration and its allies wouldn't be angling to oust Syrian President Bashar Assad in a military attack, White House press secretary Jay Carney said Tuesday.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/08/syria-response-not-about-regime-change-171306.html

Huh? Didn't expect that.

If Assad is safe, what is the point of an attack?
Are we just going to blow stuff up and say, "Let that be a lesson to you", pretending there's no wider conflict already in progress?

If you weaken his position so he can be defeated by the rebels does that count as regime change?

[Napoleon]

If Assad is safe, what is the point of an attack?

Relax, they didn't say they wouldn't target command and control centers. In the past that is how they have always said with a straight face they are not targetting the leader. But if he happens to be in a command and control center when they hit it, well tough luck.

[stroker]

If Assad is safe, what is the point of an attack?

They don't know what they're doing.

[nrc]

Huh? Didn't expect that.

If Assad is safe, what is the point of an attack?
Are we just going to blow stuff up and say, "Let that be a lesson to you", pretending there's no wider conflict already in progress?

If you weaken his position so he can be defeated by the rebels does that count as regime change?

It's just the same BS dance they did with Gaddafi. If you just outright admit that you mean to kick someone out then the UN might declare you a bad guy. You have to blow stuff up for humanitarian reasons.

[Gnam]

Once, I remember, we met a warship anchored off the coast. There was no settlement visible, but the ship was firing its guns into the forest. Apparently the French were fighting some war near there. The boat’s flag hung limp like a rag while the hull, with guns sticking out over it, rose gently and fell on the greasy, slimy waves. The ship was a tiny speck firing away into a continent. It was pointless and impossible to understand. The guns would pop, a small flame would appear from their barrels, a little white smoke would puff out, and nothing would happen. Nothing could happen. It was insane, and it only seemed more insane when someone swore to me that there was a camp of natives (or ‘enemies,’ as he called them) hidden in the jungle.

-Heart of Darkness, Joseph Conrad, 1899


"Never get out of the boat." Absolutely god**** right! Unless you were goin' all the way...

-Apocalypse Now, 1979

[TKGAngel]

The Syrian Electronic Army is having some fun on the internets (http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/08/27/sea_hacks_syrian_electronic_army_says_it_hit_twitt er_new_york_times.html)today, taking down the NYT and taking over the Twitter domain. Wonder what else they're going to go after?

[SurfaceUnits]

The Syrian Electronic Army is having some fun on the internets (http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/08/27/sea_hacks_syrian_electronic_army_says_it_hit_twitt er_new_york_times.html)today, taking down the NYT and taking over the Twitter domain. Wonder what else they're going to go after?

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpFecwQygnYbm9ROme_gd85mrh50OSS hUND7qb83d3eVKtb67daw


And it's a good thing the President got that Peace Prize thing out of the way

[Gnam]

Talk about a Kobayashi Maru scenario. It's no win all the way around.

[stroker]

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

:D

[KLang]

The Syrian Electronic Army is having some fun on the internets (http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/08/27/sea_hacks_syrian_electronic_army_says_it_hit_twitt er_new_york_times.html)today, taking down the NYT and taking over the Twitter domain. Wonder what else they're going to go after?

Looks like they might be at it again, some of the graphics on Twitter are missing like yesterday.

[Don Quixote]

I heard this on the radio, but seems to ring true.

In the Middle East, two dogs are fighting, and a cat walks into the room. The dogs stop fighting and turn on the cat. The US is the cat.

[KLang]

I heard this on the radio, but seems to ring true.

In the Middle East, two dogs are fighting, and a cat walks into the room. The dogs stop fighting and turn on the cat. The US is the cat.

:thumbup:

At this point neither side will be our friend no matter what we do. Same thing for Egypt.

I say let the UN handle it. :cool:

[Gnam]

Now I wonder if the "brief and limited" strikes will be limited to just Assad's army. If there are known extremist/terrorist/Iranian groups operating in Syria, might as well kick them in the teeth at the same time. Once Syria's air defenses are knocked offline, why just kick the one dog?

[stroker]

That Saudi Prince Bandhar is in a position to "guarantee" no Chechen terrorism at the Olympics in Russia is interesting and unnerving...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

[Gnam]

NATO is in.
UN Security Council is out.
UK Parliament is out for now.

US is not pulling the car over for any bathroom breaks or stopping to ask directions.


In blunt terms, [US State] department spokeswoman Marie Harf said last-ditch efforts to win support for an anti-Assad resolution at the U.N. were unsuccessful, and the U.S. would proceed anyway.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/28/state-department-prepares-to-bypass-un-on-syria-response/
I don't know if bombing Syria is the best thing to do, but ignoring the UN just feels right. ;)

Alternatives to missile strikes:
1. Blockade - seal the borders and allow nothing but humanitarian aid in or refugees out.
2. Blackout - no electrical power generation allowed within the country.
3. Sandlot - confiscate Syria's beaches and mine the shoreline.
4. Wildcard - pay Russia to invade Syria.

[KLang]

NATO is in.
UN Security Council is out.
UK Parliament is out for now.


But what about the US Congress?




Alternatives to missile strikes:
1. Blockade - seal the borders and allow nothing but humanitarian aid in or refugees out.
2. Blackout - no electrical power generation allowed within the country.
3. Sandlot - confiscate Syria's beaches and mine the shoreline.
4. Wildcard - pay Russia to invade Syria.

According to someone at the White House yesterday the goal is:


just muscular enough not to get mocked :saywhat:

My guess? If we do anything, we blow up a bit of Russian military equipment.

[mapguy]

Kerry did not make any demands on Syria or forecast any US action, except "serious scrutiny".

529

Stop! Or I'll say stop again!

[Tifosi24]

I see this boiling down to one thing. We, the West, said over a year ago that use of chemical weapons would be met with a response. Unfortunately, a large majority of the rebel forces are now nothing more than Al-Qaeda rubes. I don't think we really want to launch an attack, but we feel we need to send a message that chemical weapons are bad. We just want to make sure that the strike is such that it can't tip the balance of power, which will be interesting. I think it was said earlier, but if we are going to use force, I say we strike some terrorist installations at the same time.

[TrueBrit]

Okay, stupid question here, if the goal is prevent future chemical attacks by blowing up stored chemical weapons, wouldn't that just release chemical weapons into the air?

There is no winner in this scenario, and lobbing a few cruise missiles in and around Damascus really won't change the dynamic.

We're not going to get involved in/pick a side in the ongoing civil war, and we're not trying to oust Assad, but we're making sure that the players only kill each other with conventional weapons from now on. Got it. :rolleyes:

[Tifosi24]

Okay, stupid question here, if the goal is prevent future chemical attacks by blowing up stored chemical weapons, wouldn't that just release chemical weapons into the air?

There is no winner in this scenario, and lobbing a few cruise missiles in and around Damascus really won't change the dynamic.

We're not going to get involved in/pick a side in the ongoing civil war, and we're not trying to oust Assad, but we're making sure that the players only kill each other with conventional weapons from now on. Got it. :rolleyes:

You are right if you strike the weapons, so, my guess, is that any strike would be against other infrastructure to launch attacks. You are also right that the best option is that a strike allows the parties to continue killing each other, just on a more level playing field.

[SurfaceUnits]

They won't be targeting chemical weapons. The only safe way to destroy a chemical weapons depot is with a nuke. But there is no way of knowing where they are being moved around. The Free Syrian Army is the last hope.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Syrian-rebel-forces-trained-by-West-are-moving-towards-Damascus-324033

[Rogue Leader]

My mother is in Jerusalem right now on a religious trip with my aunt. We were telling them maybe going is not a good idea (a week ago when they left). Mom is taking an early flight home (from Tel-Aviv) tomorrow, but my Aunt insists on staying.

Iran and Syria said if the US strikes they will strike Tel-Aviv immediately. Good thing shes flying Air Canada, they won't bother the Canadians....

[Gnam]

UK Parliment is out. The resolution was non-binding, but the PM says he'll respect it.

Everyone seems to be of the opinion that nothing will happen now, or that if it does, it will be small. Plus all the major players have laid their markers down: Russia and China are okay with chemical weapons; Iran threatened Israel; UK says no more adventures. The US is alone, except for France.

Perfect time to go BIG. I'm not saying go nuclear or anything, but walk into Syria like you own the place and bomb the stuffing out of Iran. Usually, I would say opening a two front war half a world away with a worn down military, a war-weary public, no clear military objective or strategic goals, and no planning would be a bad idea. But, it wasn't over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, and this situation calls for a really futile and stupid gesture on somebody's part, and we're just the guys to do it.

If you can't do something smart, do something right.

[Tifosi24]

I am not shocked by Parliament's vote after listening to the debate today (which was quite nice), but the ball is now squarely in our court. I am torn in this instance because chemical weapons are about as bad as they come, but intervention in this conflict risks greater regional conflict to levels not seen in a long while and for no real benefit to US interests. We lose no matter what happens. If the US doesn't act, it won't be the first time we have backed out of implicit support (e.g., Hungary 1956) and probably not the last time.

[cameraman]

If Assad's brother is the one who ordered the chemical attack then we need to find the rabbit hole he is hiding in and pay a visit with a GBU-57 and call it done.

[G.]

I guess when you are looking for a consensus, and collaboration partners, you need to have a backup plan for the chance that it doesn't happen.


Obama should have shut his trap and just bombed an aspirin factory, like an other self-respecting President. ;)

This is just messed up, in every direction. :yuck:

Were the chem weapons specifically targeting civilians, or were they "collateral"?

[cameraman]

For all the noise around this the facts of the case are sparse.

The death toll is between 322 and 1729. Hard to miss a thousand bodies one way or the other.
The location is or are half a dozen semi rural towns east of Damascus.
The weapons are claimed to be gas-dispensing rockets.
The targeted area was rebel held but largely civilian residential.
No one has said what chemical was used in the attack. Sarin doesn't fit the epidemiology of the attack, so what the hell was it?

The fog of war is strong with this one.

[Gnam]

Who are these UN investigators? Unarmed in the middle of a war zone surrounded by crazy people, taking samples of a deadly compound under sniper fire. That is some job.

[nrc]

UK Parliment is out. The resolution was non-binding, but the PM says he'll respect it.


Pathetic. This is the same bunch who overthrew Gaddafi on the pretext of civilian suffering? Is it really worth a nickel of our tax dollars if the Euros don't even care enough to clean up their own back yard?

The problem is that if we get involved it's going to be expensive. Just lobbing in a few cruise missiles isn't going to have any appreciable impact and it will simply be another excuse to hate us and maybe an excuse to pack up a WMD care package for Al Quida. If you do anything you have to wipe out their Air Force so that they are no longer a factor in the conflict or the region.

[gjc2]

This is a tough situation. It’s not a threat to the United States any more than any other maniacal dictator in the mid-east is a threat. I think we either take decisive action that removes Assad’s ability to continue his chemical attacks, or we do nothing. Half measures or symbolic attacks are worse than doing nothing.

ps; The UN is useless.

[Napoleon]

UK Parliament is out. The resolution was non-binding, but the PM says he'll respect it.

Interesting historical trivia, the last time a British Parliament voted against it's government on a matter of war was February 1782. (http://www.historygallery.com/newspapers/1782warvote/1782warvote.htm)

[stroker]

Interesting historical trivia, the last time a British Parliament voted against it's government on a matter of war was February 1782. (http://www.historygallery.com/newspapers/1782warvote/1782warvote.htm)

They've had enough. Can't say I blame them.

It'd be interesting to see how the GB Islamic population breaks on pro/anti Assad...

[Gnam]

They've had enough. Can't say I blame them.

It'd be interesting to see how the GB Islamic population breaks on pro/anti Assad...
My impression is the only people who are pro Assad are Assad, his wife, and his kids. Everyone else seems to be in it for themselves.

Maps!

As of August 23, 2013
http://s13.postimg.org/4tnwh5i2f/syria_civil_war_rebel_control_map_2013_08_22.png
http://www.polgeonow.com/2013/08/syria-civil-war-map-august-2013-11.html

http://s2.postimg.org/7k7p5hq6h/syrias_religious_demography1.jpg
http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/why-syrian-war-could-last-ten-years

[Tifosi24]

They've had enough. Can't say I blame them.

It'd be interesting to see how the GB Islamic population breaks on pro/anti Assad...

I would assume that the population breaks mostly on what mosque (Shia, Sunni, Alawite) a person attends.

[stroker]

I would assume that the population breaks mostly on what mosque (Shia, Sunni, Alawite) a person attends.

60/40, 70/30, etc. is where I was going as a means of diagnosing the actions of Parliament...

[G.]

They've had enough. Can't say I blame them.

It'd be interesting to see how the GB Islamic population breaks on pro/anti Assad...

Let's see...

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2013/8/24/18/enhanced-buzz-21855-1377383565-35.jpg


http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2013/08/130826-middle_east_conflict_chart2.png.CROP.original-original.png

[Gnam]

That is awesome and also sad. :laugh: :(

[SurfaceUnits]

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1958/slide_1958_25836_large.jpg

Assad's wife,,,leave them alone

[cameraman]

President Obama will deliver a statement on Syria at 1:15 p.m. ET in the Rose Garden

[Gnam]

from twitter

Agence France-Presse @AFP
#BREAKING President Obama will NOT announce imminent military action, a White House official tells AFP.

9:32 AM - 31 Aug 2013


Seven minutes past 1:15pm, still no press conference.

[cameraman]

20 minutes after the start time and the live view of a podium continues...

[Gnam]

No time limit on action: strike could happen now, tomorrow, next week, next month.

Defer: President is ready to give order, but wants Congressional approval.

Delay: Congress will vote when they return in a week.

[cameraman]

House Republicans complained that they were cut out, well now the entire thing is on their heads.

[stroker]

20 minutes after the start time and the live view of a podium continues...

they sure are lucky Breitbart isn't still alive....

:D

[Gnam]

I expect the argument against US action will be that gas attacks launched against your own people don't count and don't require international military intervention when there is already a revolution in progress to overthrow the government.

The argument for US action is hundreds of dead children and to prevent sending the signal that chemical weapons are ok to use sometimes.

However it turns out, I'm sure the entire debate will remain above board and politics free. ;)

[SurfaceUnits]

POTUS has decided to let congress save his hide

[cameraman]

The House Republicans have penciled in a discussion of the topic into their ever so busy schedule...


Speaker John Boehner: Congress will consider measure on military action week of 9th September

[SurfaceUnits]

And the senate is right there on the ball with them

[SurfaceUnits]

this is what cooled POTUS' jets

http://www.majorgeeks.com/news/story/son_of_syrian_president_assad_taunts_obama_via_fac ebookhoax.html

[cameraman]

this is what cooled POTUS' jets

http://www.majorgeeks.com/news/story/son_of_syrian_president_assad_taunts_obama_via_fac ebookhoax.html

Anyone who has ever read the writings of elementary school students would instantly recognize that post as the writing of an adult.:shakehead:

[SurfaceUnits]

Anyone who has ever read the writings of elementary school students would instantly recognize that post as the writing of an adult.:shakehead:

Except that he wasn't educated in a US getto skool

11-year-old Majoring in Physics Starts College

Besides, When Joe Biden is the only other person in the world who thinks your war idea is a good one

[SurfaceUnits]

Evidence analysis from suspected Syrian attack sites could take up to 3 weeks, U.N. inspectors say. http://on.cnn.com/179eqgU


On #Syria president punts impossible job to congress asks "make sense of mess I made" http://blog.heritage.org/2013/08/31/obama-punts-to-congress-on-syria/ …

RT @RichardGrenell: Arab journalist calls me to say: Your president looks weak and America is being mocked by people who liked him.

[Gnam]

Street ART!

Subway platform in Astoria, Queens
from joe's nyc photo blog: http://josephholmes.io/blog/astoria-queens-2-3541

http://s21.postimg.org/wfekrzvx3/Astoria_Steinway_Platform_Paste_up.jpg

[SurfaceUnits]

It now seems that All of Syria has joined Assad's son in the mocking of our Nobel Peace Prize winning leader

[SteveH]

Evidence analysis from suspected Syrian attack sites could take up to 3 weeks, U.N. inspectors say. http://on.cnn.com/179eqgU





1. So do we (pres & congress) wait until the findings are released before taking action? Would seem reasonable since we're waiting anyway.

2. What happens if the UN says their tests were inconclusive? Or even worse, show no trace? Back peddle?

[nrc]

Evidence analysis from suspected Syrian attack sites could take up to 3 weeks, U.N. inspectors say. http://on.cnn.com/179eqgU


On #Syria president punts impossible job to congress asks "make sense of mess I made" http://blog.heritage.org/2013/08/31/obama-punts-to-congress-on-syria/ …

RT @RichardGrenell: Arab journalist calls me to say: Your president looks weak and America is being mocked by people who liked him.

Ok, lets not make this about President Obama.

[Gnam]

1. So do we (pres & congress) wait until the findings are released before taking action? Would seem reasonable since we're waiting anyway.

2. What happens if the UN says their tests were inconclusive? Or even worse, show no trace? Back peddle?
I expect the UN report will use phrases like "100% maybe" and "probably likely". They will draw no conclusions, and have already said their report will not assign blame. The report will be cited by both sides as proof they were right all along.

In August 1944, the Polish Home Army staged an uprising in Warsaw against the Nazi occupiers. They were encouraged to revolt by the Russian Army that was approaching the city. However, instead of helping the Poles, the Russians camped outside the city for weeks. The Germans put down the uprising, wiped out the resistance movement, and razed the city. When the Russians finally rolled into town, they owned the place.

If the US was as ruthless as the Soviets, we'd let Assad gas the terrorists and then remove him after the war on the grounds that he is a war criminal.

[SurfaceUnits]

Who is that having dinner with whom?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/02/article-2408805-1B94E57D000005DC-279_634x575.jpg

[SurfaceUnits]

I expect the UN report will use phrases like "100% maybe" and "probably likely". They will draw no conclusions, and have already said their report will not assign blame. The report will be cited by both sides as proof they were right all along.

In August 1944, the Polish Home Army staged an uprising in Warsaw against the Nazi occupiers. They were encouraged to revolt by the Russian Army that was approaching the city. However, instead of helping the Poles, the Russians camped outside the city for weeks. The Germans put down the uprising, wiped out the resistance movement, and razed the city. When the Russians finally rolled into town, they owned the place.

If the US was as ruthless as the Soviets, we'd let Assad gas the terrorists and then remove him after the war on the grounds that he is a war criminal.

Leading up to the start of the war, and as the pretense for the war, Germans, dressed in Polish Army uniforms, staged attacks on German towns

[Gnam]

Sometime feel like Mongo just pawn in game of life.

[SurfaceUnits]

British military chiefs are being ejected from US meetings about Syria in the first direct consequence of David Cameron’s refusal to join military action.

The role of senior British officers based at US Central Command in Tampa, Florida, has been downgraded because they cannot be trusted with high-level intelligence about a conflict with which they are no longer involved, military sources say.

About 30 British personnel have been working alongside the Americans and French at the headquarters, fine-tuning a list of targets and orchestrating military assets as part of war planning underway for weeks.

[SteveH]

British military chiefs are being ejected from US meetings about Syria in the first direct consequence of David Cameron’s refusal to join military action.

The role of senior British officers based at US Central Command in Tampa, Florida, has been downgraded because they cannot be trusted with high-level intelligence about a conflict with which they are no longer involved, military sources say.

About 30 British personnel have been working alongside the Americans and French at the headquarters, fine-tuning a list of targets and orchestrating military assets as part of war planning underway for weeks.

If you're not with us, you're against us?

[trish]

British military chiefs are being ejected from US meetings about Syria in the first direct consequence of David Cameron’s refusal to join military action.

The role of senior British officers based at US Central Command in Tampa, Florida, has been downgraded because they cannot be trusted with high-level intelligence about a conflict with which they are no longer involved, military sources say.

About 30 British personnel have been working alongside the Americans and French at the headquarters, fine-tuning a list of targets and orchestrating military assets as part of war planning underway for weeks.Did someone actually say that? If so, not very good public relations.

[cameraman]

British military chiefs are being ejected from US meetings about Syria in the first direct consequence of David Cameron’s refusal to join military action.

The role of senior British officers based at US Central Command in Tampa, Florida, has been downgraded because they cannot be trusted with high-level intelligence about a conflict with which they are no longer involved, military sources say.

About 30 British personnel have been working alongside the Americans and French at the headquarters, fine-tuning a list of targets and orchestrating military assets as part of war planning underway for weeks.

Nice spin. Any country which is no longer involved in an operation will stop being included in the planning process. The Brits are still in Tampa, still working on everything else they were doing yesterday, just not on any Syrian strike planning. They are not working on the strike planning because the British government ordered the British forces to stand down.

[chop456]

Who is that having dinner with whom?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/02/article-2408805-1B94E57D000005DC-279_634x575.jpg

Where's the story attached to this?

[Gnam]

It might also give the Brits plausible deniability. "Like, hey man, I didn't know they were gonna do that. I wasn't even in the room. Those Americans are cray-Z!"

[SurfaceUnits]

Where's the story attached to this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408805/Kerrys-cosy-dinner-Syrias-Hitler-Secretary-State-man-likened-German-dictator-pictured-dining-wives-Damascus-restaurant-civil-war-broke-out.html

[Gnam]

Where's the story attached to this?
February 2009, US Senator Kerry led a Congressional delegation to Syria on a kill them with kindness tour. Now we're talking about killing them with missiles.

[SurfaceUnits]

Did someone actually say that? If so, not very good public relations.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/defence/article3858964.ece

[Tifosi24]

British military chiefs are being ejected from US meetings about Syria in the first direct consequence of David Cameron’s refusal to join military action.

The role of senior British officers based at US Central Command in Tampa, Florida, has been downgraded because they cannot be trusted with high-level intelligence about a conflict with which they are no longer involved, military sources say.

About 30 British personnel have been working alongside the Americans and French at the headquarters, fine-tuning a list of targets and orchestrating military assets as part of war planning underway for weeks.

Seems reasonable. I have to deal with confidential information all the time, and I have a personal liability clause as part of my terms of employment. People know I can be trusted with stuff, but if I am not assigned to it, or have signed a confidentiality agreement in certain instances, I can't look at the information.

[Andrew Longman]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/defence/article3858964.eceSo these are the words of a British journalist, not quoting anyone in the US military. Factually, it was the British parliament who told the British military to not participate in any action in Syria, not the US.

IMO people need to put this in proper percpective and not through the tainted lens of the debacle that led into the war in Iraq and the shape of our involvement in Afghanistan. We chose to get involved in Bosnia for humanitarian reasons with good effect. We chose for the same reasons to get involved in Somalia with terrible effect. We chose to ignore, to our shame, the genocide in Rwanda. The lesson for me is not whether we should get involved but rather what the most effective involvment looks like. I hope Obama and Congress and other nations take the time to figure that out.

Oh, and I am sure that Kerry's dinner with Assad was a lot cheaper than a single Tomahawk missle. Too bad it didn't work... at least not yet.

[datachicane]

February 2009, US Senator Kerry led a Congressional delegation to Syria on a kill them with kindness tour. Now we're talking about killing them with missiles.

Context? We don't need no stinkin' context.

[Gnam]

US Carrier moved to Red Sea

The USS Nimitz aircraft carrier and four other ships in its strike group moved into the Red Sea early on Monday, U.S. defense officials said, describing the move as "prudent planning" in case the ships are needed for military action against Syria.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/02/us-syria-crisis-ships-idUSBRE9810DA20130902

The Nimitz was scheduled to return to port in Everett, WA via the Pacific, but was redirected toward Syria.

One thing about the use of air power, would the US strike air defense sites if they were staffed by Russian "advisors"?

[cameraman]

That's not any carrier group's favorite place to spend a few weeks.

And to get to Syria you would have to overfly either Saudi Arabia or Egypt, Jordan & Israel....

[Gnam]

I assume they would move it into the Med, if they needed it. Jet Fuel is expensive. ;)


from twitter:
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak

Syrian Government tells French Parliament in letter that "we can work together to reach a diplomatic solution"

12:49 PM - 3 Sep 2013


from an anonymous commenter:

Upon receiving the news of the Syrians wishing to explore a diplomatic solution, French President Hollande surrendered, effective immediately.

:D

[cameraman]

Just in terms of general timing having the Harry S Truman go through the Suez Canal two weeks ago to relieve the Nimitz works out well for the Navy. Two carriers in the area for just these couple of weeks...

[Gnam]

Internet says the Syrian military launched another gas attack against a neighborhood in Damascus called Qabun.
Internet also says the attack was launched by the rebels, or the CIA, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc to provoke a US reaction.

I haven't found any confirmation in American media outlets, so take it with a grain of salt...

[dando]

Internet says the Syrian military launched another gas attack against a neighborhood in Damascus called Qabun.
Internet also says the attack was launched by the rebels, or the CIA, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc to provoke a US reaction.

I haven't found any confirmation in American media outlets, so take it with a grain of salt...

Well if it's not Drudge, it can't be true. ;) Meanwhile, The Pope is weighing in against the strike. This is spiraling to a huge thud.

[Gnam]

I'm waiting for The Columbus Dispatch to confirm Elway was involved. ;)

[SurfaceUnits]

Pentagon staged chemical attack in Syria

I've hacked colonel Anthony Jamie MacDonald mail he is intelligence US Army Staff boss. First I hacked his Link3dIn account and got access to his mail through it then.

Among mail Mayhem like Amazon mails I've found his correspondence with his colleague Eugene Furst. He congratulates Col. with success and gives a link to the Washington Post publication about chemical attack in Syria on August 21. Furst also mentions it was “well staged”. Holy ****. I was shocked my eyes refused to believe it. Bloody bastards they “staged” a chemical attack.

http://pastebin.com/zeXpsRnh

U.S. Military Intelligence Involved in Chemical Attack in Syria

by Oriental Review

The situation in Syria is still in focus of the world media. Another U.S.-led “humanitarian intervention” may be unleashed soon. The Pentagon announced that it is ready to attack Syria in order to punish Bashar al-Assad and Syrian army for the alleged use of chemical weapons against the civilians.

Meanwhile, the new evidence of the U.S. intelligence being involved in chemical attack near Damascus on August 21, 2013 has been leaked to Internet.

A hacker got access to the U.S. intelligence correspondence and published private emails of Col. Anthony J. Macdonald, who is the General Staff Director, Operations and Plans Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence the US Army Staff.

In an email exchange on August 22, 2013 with the US Army civilian analyst Eugene P. Furst congratulates Col. on successful operation and refers him to a Washington Post publication about chemical attack in Syria.

Then a friend of Anthony MacDonald's wife Jennifer writes she was shocked seeing on TV the children died after chemical attack in Syria. Jennifer answers she saw the story but Tony calm her down saying children were alive and the scene was staged.

http://jarkesypolitical.com/2013/09/04/u-s-military-intelligence-involved-in-chemical-attack-in-syria/


I won't post the contents of the purported emails because I don't think the boss can manage his forem from Gitmo

[SurfaceUnits]

14 Principled Anti-War Celebrities We Fear May Have Been Kidnapped

Our government is yet again marching us towards a war of choice in the Middle East and our non-partisan, peace-loving celebrities have gone missing. We fear the worst.

[datachicane]

532

[nrc]

Because a self-described hacker would never, ever forge an email...

[datachicane]

Satire is dead.

We need a paranoid-conspiracy-theory-unsupported-by-actual-evidence-that-I-found-on-some-random-website forum, no attribution necessary. It would immediately increase the post quality in every other thread by a significant degree.

[SurfaceUnits]

Syria chemical weapons attack not ordered by Assad, says German press

Bild am Sonntag cites high-level German surveillance source suggesting Syrian president was not personally behind attacks


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild

[KLang]

Kerry: "unbelievably small, limited"

From USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/08/syria-tomahawk-missiles-chemical-weapons/2770949/)

A second senior official, who has seen the most recent planning, offered this metaphor to describe such a strike: If Assad is eating Cheerios, we're going to take away his spoon and give him a fork. Will that degrade his ability to eat Cheerios? Yes. Will it deter him? Maybe. But he'll still be able to eat Cheerios.

Why bother?

[dando]

Why bother?

Amen.

[nrc]

Ruskie plan to take away their toys may have some legs. Then we can send in UN inspectors and start the search for his hidden WMDs.

[Gnam]

Finally, a worthy adversary. Welcome back, Russia.

Countries without WMD: Iraq, Libya, Egypt.
Countries with deposed leaders: Iraq, Libya, Egypt.

Assad needs to sound reasonable, kill the rebels, and keep his WMD.
For now, with the Russians' help, he is winning on all fronts. :(

[gjc2]

Countries without WMD: Iraq, Libya, Egypt.:(

I don’t want to belabor this point but; Saddam had mobile chemical weapon labs, chemical weapon experts, munitions modified to deliver chemical weapons and he had used chemical weapons in the past.

[Napoleon]

I don’t want to belabor this point but; Saddam had mobile chemical weapon labs, chemical weapon experts, munitions modified to deliver chemical weapons

Not in 2001.

[Gnam]

I don’t want to belabor this point but; Saddam had mobile chemical weapon labs, chemical weapon experts, munitions modified to deliver chemical weapons and he had used chemical weapons in the past.
I agree. I included Iraq because no stockpiles were found after the invasion and none were used on US troops.
IMO, being unable or unwilling to use them is the same as not having them.

[Andrew Longman]

And saying you have them and are willing to use them is the same as actually having them. Almost. See Hussein, Saddam, 2001.

[Gnam]

Who better to ensure the safe transfer of Syria's chemical weapons than Russian, Chinese, and Iranian troops? Good thing there are already three Russian troop ships steaming toward Syria. ;)

http://www.examiner.com/article/chinese-russian-warships-and-marines-heading-to-syrian-waters

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/504248/20130906/russia-ship-syria-assad-putin-obama-damascus.htm

Rebels better run for the border.

[indyfan31]

What a great idea. I can't think of a better time to try and confiscate chemical weapons than right in the middle of a civil war. :shakehead:

Locating, prepping, and transporting these things is going to require thousands of people. There will be "boots on the ground", the question is whose boots.