China

[cameraman]

The smog in Shanghai is just plain gross. It looks like pea soup fog but it is 78 and in theory partly cloudy, not that you can see the sky. :yuck:

[High Sided]

see the sky? i can't even see the end of the straight. looks nasty but sounds heavenly.

[racer2c]

HRT
Narain Karthikeyan, 1m 45.019s. P24/1m 42.902s, P20
Tonio Liuzzi, 1m 44.359s, P21/1m 43.850s, P21
HRT had a good morning until Liuzzi’s car glided to a halt with hydraulic problems which restricted him to a single lap in the afternoon. Both he and Karthikeyan, who ran strongly in the afternoon, showed that the aero update had moved the F111 well clear of Virgin.

Virgin
Jerome D'Ambrosio, 1m 44.089s, P20/1m 44.008s, P22
Timo Glock, 1m 44.438s, P22/1m 44.747s, P23
Virgin had a difficult day, and the internal feeling is that both drivers took the MVR-02 as far as it could go in its current guise pending an update for Turkey.

[Gnam]

I wonder if the air quality has a noticable effect on the engines.

[racer2c]

I wonder if the air quality has a noticable effect on the engines.

They may get more horsepower from it. It looks practically combustible! :)

[pchall]

They may get more horsepower from it. It looks practically combustible! :)
great line :)

In the mid 70s I used to cancel softball games on campus if I could not see the clock tower of Tangeman Hall from the field in Nippert Stadium. That drove the intermural sports director crazy, but I always used the "legitimate health concern" card to palliate him. It is amazing how things have changed in this country. When I first went to college I could not see the campus from the top of the hill were I lived six miles away. Now I can see every building from the top of College Hill even on the worst days of summer.

[Indy]

Yes, but all regulation is evil. Never forget that.

[RusH]

Yes, but all regulation is evil. Never forget that.
:rofl:

[cameraman]

You'll notice that the stands are pretty much empty, there's a reason for that. The tickets run between ~2100 and 3280 Yuan Renminbi each. That directly converts to US$320 and US$500. An average salary in Shanghai is 1500RMB a month.

[Trevor Longman]

You'll notice that the stands are pretty much empty, there's a reason for that. The tickets run between ~2100 and 3280 Yuan Renminbi each. That directly converts to US$320 and US$500. An average salary in Shanghai is 1500RMB a month.

And yet Bob Varsha just claimed a packed house on race day. Somehow I'm tending to side with you on this one. Those numbers are ridiculous!

[opinionated ow]

Webber is a knob.

[opinionated ow]

I have now finally seen the race. It was entertaining but did anyone else feel the whole thing was a bit contrived with special overtaking buttons and tyres designed not to be the best they can but to actually be a little crap?

[trish]

This is the first I heard that the tyres were intentionally designed to be crap. If that's the case then yes, it is contrived. I don't care one way or another about the kers.

[cameraman]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/Cynops/Nice.jpg
:rofl:

[racer2c]

Excellent race! :thumbup:

[Insomniac]

I have now finally seen the race. It was entertaining but did anyone else feel the whole thing was a bit contrived with special overtaking buttons and tyres designed not to be the best they can but to actually be a little crap?

I agree with trish. First I heard they were designed to be poor. Seems like they are getting what they want with differences in compounds. While there is a lot of clag, it didn't really seem to stop anyone from doing what they wanted.

[Insomniac]

I thought it was interesting race. It seems like changing tires sooner than later is good with the drop off they see. If you were being held up, the better move is change tires and get out in the open and gain time.

Great drive by Webber. I guess aided by poor qualifying so he could run 3 sets of the options for the entire stint? With the requirement to use both, they should provide plenty of sets to everyone.

[Indy]

I am OK with the tires going off in general, but I think the rule requiring them to run both compounds is contrived. Give them all four compounds every race and let the teams decide.

DRS & KERS? :shakehead

[cameraman]

The race broke an all time record. The most cars to finish an F1 race at 23.

[dando]

The smog in Shanghai is just plain gross. It looks like pea soup fog but it is 78 and in theory partly cloudy, not that you can see the sky. :yuck:

Di$ney recently broke ground on Di$neyland Shanghai. Should be a fun place to visit. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[BarillaGirl]

I thought the race was exciting! Let's see if my husband stays awake during this one. There's always hope...... :rolleyes:

[Insomniac]

The race broke an all time record. The most cars to finish an F1 race at 23.

Should race cars be this reliable?

[Hard Driver]

I have now finally seen the race. It was entertaining but did anyone else feel the whole thing was a bit contrived with special overtaking buttons and tyres designed not to be the best they can but to actually be a little crap?

Yes. It was entertaining, but did seem a bit contrived. I was just waiting for the competition yellow.

[Opposite Lock]

Should race cars be this reliable?

:saywhat:

[opinionated ow]

Should race cars be this reliable?

I think I agree with you. If F1 cars are that reliable there is no way that they are pushing engineering limits which is half of what F1 is about...

[cameraman]

Or they are just engineered & built better. The modern design and fabrication systems just build them tougher. It isn't like they are markedly slower. Even with the dumbed down spec tires and all manner of technology limitations they are within a second of all time speed records at every track.

[Indy]

Very few kerblammo's. The formula needs a good shaking.

[chop456]

No Ferrari penalties, huh?

[racer2c]

Or they are just engineered & built better. The modern design and fabrication systems just build them tougher. It isn't like they are markedly slower. Even with the dumbed down spec tires and all manner of technology limitations they are within a second of all time speed records at every track.

Do you know of any details regarding the "dumbed down tire spec"? Such as, is it mandated through the sporting regulations what life expectancy each compound should produce? I've scanned through various articles and only come up with tire allocation changes for '11.

[opinionated ow]

Do you know of any details regarding the "dumbed down tire spec"? Such as, is it mandated through the sporting regulations what life expectancy each compound should produce? I've scanned through various articles and only come up with tire allocation changes for '11.

There's a gazillion quotes from Pirelli about how the teams (read Bernie) wanted tyres to wear out really quickly. They're talking about 4 or 5 lap lifespans for the super soft at Monaco for goodness sake...

[cameraman]

No Ferrari penalties, huh?

It is the FIA that enables and disables the drag reduction system not the team.

BBC Sport has learnt that an error caused Alonso's DRS to 'offset' on that lap. That meant it was not enabled until 300m before the end of the straight, and was then available after the corner for a short time. This meant that he gained no advantage from the situation - in fact it actually caused him a disadvantage - so was given no penalty.

FIA officials are still investigating what caused the error.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13109394.stm

[stroker]

Everything in this thread is right. Contrived, too reliable, too gimmicky, etc.

[cameraman]

One more difference between the UK and the US.


Amazingly, out of everyone in the UK watching TV between 7am & 10am, 68% were watching the F1 at its peak

[racer2c]

There's a gazillion quotes from Pirelli about how the teams (read Bernie) wanted tyres to wear out really quickly. They're talking about 4 or 5 lap lifespans for the super soft at Monaco for goodness sake...

Not doubting you as i've seen the quotes mentioned in other places, but not the quotes themselves. Seems to be a split forum on this topic, those who simply think, partly based on Pirelli's racing history, that they are of poor design and the other side who believe the word of mouth that the degradation is engineered into the tires. I believe Pirelli claiming the latter is a good way to save a little face over a junk tire.

Monaco is poised to be a joke.

[chop456]

It is the FIA that enables and disables the drag reduction system not the team.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13109394.stm

1) Bull****
2) What about Massa's pit exit violation?

[cameraman]

Twitter can be funny sometimes. It seems a group of UK based F1 journalists took an Aeroflot:saywhat: flight home from Shanghai to London. They missed their connection in Moscow get to wait ~20hrs for the next flight:eek:. As they don't have visas to enter Russia, they are now being held under armed guard at an immigration facility the Novotel Hotel.:rofl:

They can see the bar but they can't go to it. #Cruel&Unusual
But they can still tweet...

#savethenovoteljournos

[Insomniac]

:saywhat:

opinionated ow got what I was asking. They aren't pushing the limits with engines, gear boxes, etc. They are essentially detuned engines.

[Insomniac]

Not doubting you as i've seen the quotes mentioned in other places, but not the quotes themselves. Seems to be a split forum on this topic, those who simply think, partly based on Pirelli's racing history, that they are of poor design and the other side who believe the word of mouth that the degradation is engineered into the tires. I believe Pirelli claiming the latter is a good way to save a little face over a junk tire.

Monaco is poised to be a joke.

Need to meet a certain performance, therefore a poor tire? Main question being, is the performance target a distance or a lap time? Maybe this is their engineering capabilities matching the desired result. Hence all the marbles. I'd like to think if they could make a better tire that marbles less but performs the same, they would.

[Insomniac]

It is the FIA that enables and disables the drag reduction system not the team.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13109394.stm

So basically, hit the button for DRS all you want. If it works then you're good to go. It's the FIA's fault if it works when it shouldn't.

[Insomniac]

What about Massa's pit exit violation?

Didn't even see a stewards investigating graphic. I wondered if he gave back some time to avoid a drive through.

[cameraman]

So basically, hit the button for DRS all you want. If it works then you're good to go. It's the FIA's fault if it works when it shouldn't.

They can use it anywhere they want, as often as they want, in practice and qualifying. I think they get into a rhythm using it and they don't change that rhythm for the race.

[racer2c]

Need to meet a certain performance, therefore a poor tire? Main question being, is the performance target a distance or a lap time? Maybe this is their engineering capabilities matching the desired result. Hence all the marbles. I'd like to think if they could make a better tire that marbles less but performs the same, they would.

Like bridgstone.

[cameraman]

Like bridgstone.

Bridgestones did not degrade as fast with the severe drop off. That drop off is mandated.

Lots of clag out there but it did not stop people from passing.

[racer2c]

Bridgestones did not degrade as fast with the severe drop off. That drop off is mandated.

Lots of clag out there but it did not stop people from passing.

Again...where is it mandated?

[datachicane]

So basically, hit the button for DRS all you want. If it works then you're good to go. It's the FIA's fault if it works when it shouldn't.

Yep. Of course, history has shown the FIA to be impartial, particularly where red cars are concerned.

:saywhat:

[Indy]

They should just install remotely controlled rev limiters in all the cars so the FIA can "manage" the podium. Or did they already do that?

[High Sided]

Excellent race! :thumbup:


:thumbup::thumbup:

[Pilgrims Drop]

Again...where is it mandated?

AUTOSPORT, Needs a subscription (http://www.autosport.com/subs/login.php?r=http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85099&type=news&id=85099)

Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone thinks tyres should have an extremely limited life from next year in a bid to make the races more exciting.
What Bernie wants... Bernie gets

[racer2c]

AUTOSPORT, Needs a subscription (http://www.autosport.com/subs/login.php?r=http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85099&type=news&id=85099)

What Bernie wants... Bernie gets

Thank you. I was simply curious as to this being an under the table mandate or something that is spelled out in the sporting regulations.

[cameraman]

The FIA rules say nothing about details of the tires. All the details are in a contract between Bernie and Pirelli and we all know that only Defender has seen the contract...

[Insomniac]

AUTOSPORT, Needs a subscription (http://www.autosport.com/subs/login.php?r=http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85099&type=news&id=85099)

What Bernie wants... Bernie gets

But life and drop-off are different, right? I asked before, if they want the tire to only last so long, why not make it harder and put less rubber on it?

So far, the clag hasn't mattered though. You want to pass, the clag won't stop you (literally).

[The Doctor]

But life and drop-off are different, right? I asked before, if they want the tire to only last so long, why not make it harder and put less rubber on it?

So far, the clag hasn't mattered though. You want to pass, the clag won't stop you (literally).

I read a quote somewhere (I'll try to find it) that said the Pirellis actually have a hard time picking up debris on the tires and thus it's part of the reason you see the drivers desperately trying to pick up any rubber they can at the end of the race (in more extreme and odd ways than ever before). With the amount that they wear and the amount of rubber they lose, they struggle to pick up enough debris to help replace the weight lost from the tires.

Thus, when they pass on the dirty line they don't really pick up a lot of junk and aren't significantly slowed down or impacted.

[indyfan31]

I read a quote somewhere (I'll try to find it) that said the Pirellis actually have a hard time picking up debris on the tires and thus it's part of the reason you see the drivers desperately trying to pick up any rubber they can at the end of the race (in more extreme and odd ways than ever before). With the amount that they wear and the amount of rubber they lose, they struggle to pick up enough debris to help replace the weight lost from the tires.

Thus, when they pass on the dirty line they don't really pick up a lot of junk and aren't significantly slowed down or impacted.

Normally I'd say it doesn't make sense, but twice Webber drove right over the marbles and still made the pass stick.

[Steve99]

Didn't even see a stewards investigating graphic. I wondered if he gave back some time to avoid a drive through.

I'm not sure that the part of the pit exit line that Massa crossed was actually an infraction. It was still to the pit-lane side of the line that seems to mark the right hand limit of the front straight.

[BarillaGirl]

I'm not sure that the part of the pit exit line that Massa crossed was actually an infraction. It was still to the pit-lane side of the line that seems to mark the right hand limit of the front straight.

It sure looked like an infraction from here..... and didn't Button come out on a later pit exit, look as if he were about to cross it, and swerve back over to the right? It looked like a needle that was meant to be threaded, or else why would you bother having a line there at all? :confused:

I didn't hear anyone mention the secret identity of last week's Actual By-God Former Race Driver Guest Steward. Who was it?