View Full Version : Saturday '11
I want a playoff. There. I said it again. But the first time this year.:gomer:
You want hippie Occupy 128 team playoffs :gomer:
No, it's Muck Fichigan week. :gomer: Unfortunately I think we're going to get Mucked this season. :(
-Kevin
I feel the same but it won't taint my hate.
SurfaceUnits
11-21-11, 02:11 PM
Oregon beat Stanford -- handily but they are 5 spots lower this week? And USC handily beats Oregon and they are 1 spot below them? :confused:
I want a playoff. There. I said it again. But the first time this year.:gomer:
it's not if you lose but when you lose. so lose early
Andrew Longman
11-21-11, 05:11 PM
it's not if you lose but when you lose. so lose earlySame for a playoff. Lose and go home.
I just don't see the logic of the USC, Oregon and Stanford ratings having only played each other a week apart.
But I don't need to understand.
How do you rank Rock-Paper-Scissors?
Stanford beats USC.
Oregon beats Stanford.
USC beats Oregon.
At least their BCS rankings are in agreement with their conference standings:
Stanford (8-1)
Oregon (7-1)
USC (6-2)
The important thing is that all three of them lost at home in front of capacity crowds. Their fans' sorrow fills me with a warm fuzzy feeling.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i433/PatrickMchorn/AM1.jpg
A&M finally complied to the FOIA requests this week, this is one of the emails from Beebe to Byrne.
The 1st paragraph shows what I've been saying this whole time had to have been the truth. 1 game would be contractually guaranteed to a school's own network, but that is not a max limit, just 1 exemption for the school to take from the inventory allocated to the broadcast partners (ABC & Fox).
A&M's proud lack of a law school (they shut down their journo school about 5 years ago b/c journalism's too hippie) comes back to bite them in the ass again.
Racing Truth
11-22-11, 08:52 PM
You want hippie Occupy 128 team playoffs :gomer:
See now, the MOST anyone wants is a 16-team playoff, and I realize that's likely too many. But the current system is an Epic Fail, leading to unedifying results far too often.
"But every game counts!" you say. One, not true. Ask Nebraska '01, Oklahoma '03, etc. And, quite likely, Alabama '11. Two, even if I accept that line of thinking as factual, we disagree on the premise. B/c I see a system that does not let a team develop and improve during a season. One bad game can become unforgivable, even if, by the end of the yr., that team can make a plausible case that they're playing the best football anywhere. Oh well, doesn't matter!
It's a ridiculous system.
Andrew Longman
11-22-11, 09:56 PM
It's a ridiculous system.YUp all that.
And just look at the DIAA, DII, and DIII playoffs. These routinely feature many dramatic games and late season surges. They are a blast.
And every game DOES count because you can lose to many or have too weak of schedule or you won't qualify for the playoffs.
Urban...to be or not to be? :saywhat: **** or get off the pot. :irked:
-Kevin
B/c I see a system that does not let a team develop and improve during a season. One bad game can become unforgivable, even if, by the end of the yr., that team can make a plausible case that they're playing the best football anywhere. Oh well, doesn't matter!
of all the issues I have w/ the system, this is one I'll never share.
the best part of college football is how every week, even the first ones, can be high stress high risk. that doesn't exist in basketball and baseball precisely because all that matters is finishing good enough and finishing strong
And every game DOES count because you can lose to many or have too weak of schedule or you won't qualify for the playoffs.
by that same logic, every game does count in D1A as well.
ncaa '12 screencap, as unfortunately captioned as sandusky's book was titled...
http://media.whosay.com/93450/1/93450_la.jpg
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/two_more_child_abuse_investiga.html.
Two cases of child sex abuse alleged against Jerry Sandusky have been opened by Children and Youth Services in Pennsylvania.
The cases were reported less than 60 days ago, and so they are still in the initial stages of the investigation.
If they are found to be credible, these would be the first known cases to be reported since Sandusky’s arrest that involve current children. All of the other publicly known cases of alleged victims coming forward have been adults.
In Pennsylvania, when an adult comes forward and alleges abuse -- even if it happened when that person was a child -- it’s solely a police matter. CYS only participates in the investigation if the victim is still under 18.
:\
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204443404577052073672561402.html?m od=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories
Journal piece describing the issues PSU's disciliplinary administrator had vs. Paterno w/ football players
In 2007, as many as two dozen players broke into an off-campus apartment, sparking a melee that captured headlines and prompted the police to file criminal charges against six Penn State football players. "Pretty much the entire Penn State defense broke in and started swinging bar stools and stuff," says John Britt, then a third-year criminal-justice major who was beaten up in the incident. Mr. Britt says he took a beer bottle to the back of the head—and that players apparently continued to beat him after he'd lost consciousness. (Now 25, Mr. Britt serves warrants for state court in Philadelphia.)
Dr. Triponey's department began an inquiry. According to a Penn State employee's record of the proceedings, Mr. Spanier was involved in at least nine meetings with representatives of the judicial-affairs department, and Mr. Paterno was involved in at least six.
In a meeting with Messrs. Paterno and Spanier and others, Dr. Triponey complained that the players were stonewalling her and suggested that Mr. Paterno ought to compel them to be truthful, according to one person familiar with the meeting. Mr. Paterno angrily responded that his players couldn't be expected to cooperate with the school's disciplinary process because, in this case, they would have to testify against each other, making it hard to play football together, these people say.
...
That same fall, Dr. Triponey's office suspended Dan Connor, a Penn State linebacker, who had been accused of making harassing calls to a retired assistant coach. Shortly after the suspension was handed down, Mr. Paterno ordered the player to suit up, according to a person familiar with the matter. Dr. Triponey informed the player that if he suited up for practice, he would be in violation of his suspension and could face expulsion. Mr. Connor says he recalled being suspended only for games, not practice.
The incident prompted Mr. Spanier to visit Dr. Triponey at her home. Dr. Triponey confirms he told her that Mr. Paterno had given him an ultimatum: Fire her, or Mr. Paterno would stop fund-raising for the school. She says Mr. Spanier told her that if forced to choose, he would choose her over the coach—but that he did not want to have to make that choice.
the "what more could JoePa have done" line of reasoning is more specious by the day
Urban...to be or not to be? :saywhat: **** or get off the pot. :irked:
-Kevin
The ESPN Ticker said Urban has accepted the tOSU job per WKMG-TV in Orlando. The contract is for 7 years for $40 million dollars.
can't believe you fools get to ridiculously upgrade after tatgate
Andrew Longman
11-23-11, 12:49 PM
by that same logic, every game does count in D1A as well.There is a huge difference between something like the NBA/NHL regular season and the D1A regular season. For one, D1A has a one game/two team post season. Lots of room in between to truly settle who the real champion is.
not getting your last post.
The ESPN Ticker said Urban has accepted the tOSU job per WKMG-TV in Orlando. The contract is for 7 years for $40 million dollars.
can't believe you fools get to ridiculously upgrade after tatgate
Rumors are all over the map...up to 7 years/$55m, which is being disputed by the local media. It appears that the board of trustees may have handled this and Smith will be out as AD.
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&post_id=164
All of this is almost as surreal as the week before the '06 Game when Bo passed away before #1 tOSU and #2 UM played in The Game, or when Earle was fired the week of The Game back in '87. I wonder if Luke headbands will appear Sat like the Earle headbands in '87. :\
-Kevin
Last week, his mother (whom I will refer to as "Mother One") removed him from Central Mountain High School in Mill Hall, Pa., where he was a senior and an all-star athlete. In an interview conducted last week, she explained why she pulled him from the school.
"They were not helpful," Mother One said of the school's administrators. "They wanted me to go home and forget about it."
Mother One also alleges that since the Sandusky scandal erupted, fellow students and the high school's football coach (who also serves as assistant principal) have all targeted her son with verbal attacks and threats of violence.
She also claims that the school's principal tried to convince her and her son not to report their allegations against Sandusky to the police, and that as recently as this month, refused to treat threats of violence against her son by other students as credible.
Central Mountain High's principal, Karen Probst, and its football coach, Steve Turchetta, did not return phone calls seeking comment about Mother One's complaints.
talk about a mind-hive, jesus.
Andrew Longman
11-23-11, 03:24 PM
by that same logic, every game does count in D1A as well.There is a huge difference between something like the NBA/NHL regular season and the D1A regular season. For one, D1A has a one game/two team post season. Lots of room in between to truly settle who the real champion is. 16 teams seems very reasonable and allows ample representation of what are pretty clearly the best teams and representation from most/all conferences.
The only obstacle is that a lot of people making a lot of money from the current system won't be the same people making a lot more money from a best system.
I can't see anything short of an act of Congress making change -- and Congress has better things to do (or not do)
Short of that, I could possibly see maybe one company putting up a huge bucket of sponsor money to teams who want to participate in a playoff championship and I could see enough teams abandoning their bowl contracts to chase that money. At some point, there would be a tipping point that firmly cements the silly bowl format the afterthought it actually is.
But that won't happen unless the economy gets a lot better.
Andrew Longman
11-23-11, 03:28 PM
not getting your last post.I don't know how you would. Somehow it posted before I was finished writing it. :gomer:
cameraman
11-23-11, 03:35 PM
talk about a mind-hive, jesus.
The article he is referring to is in the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/penn-state-scandal-jerry-sandusky-victim-mother_n_1108979.html)
The details of the actions of the high school administration and how they essentially aided and abetted Sandusky is just stunning.
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/634/sentofawomantn.jpghttp://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8276/flamethrowerdinos.jpg
Outta order? I’ll show you outta order! You don’t know what outta order is, Mr. Trask! I’d show you but I’m too old; I’m too tired; I’m too ****in’ blind. If I were the man I was five years ago I’d take a FLAME-THROWER to this place! Outta order. Who the hell you think you’re talkin’ to? I’ve been around, you know? There was a time I could see. And I have seen boys like these, younger than these, their arms torn out, their legs ripped off. But there isn’t nothin’ like the sight of an amputated spirit; there is no prosthetic for that. You think you’re merely sendin’ this splendid foot-soldier back home to Oregon with his tail between his legs, but I say you are executin’ his SOUL!! And why?! Because he’s not a Penn man! Penn men, ya hurt this boy, you’re going to be Bums, the lot of ya. And JoePa, Curley, Schultz, wherever you are out there, **** YOU too!
-Lt Col Frank Slade
Scent of a Woman
Racing Truth
11-23-11, 09:37 PM
of all the issues I have w/ the system, this is one I'll never share.
the best part of college football is how every week, even the first ones, can be high stress high risk. that doesn't exist in basketball and baseball precisely because all that matters is finishing good enough and finishing strong
And I get that this is a fundamental disagreement on what college football SHOULD be/already is. Bc yes, the regular season is great, but doesn't necessarily end up telling you who the best team is or, if nothing else, the most worthy champ is. It tells you, per design, who ends up, by a combo of polls and computers, #1 and #2. They may or may not be the two best or deserving teams. It's a nonsensical way to determine a champ that no other sport uses.
Now, I think you can reasonably go two ways: One, go back to the way it was. No BCS, no playoff. Conference-bowl affiliations rule and engineering a 1 v. 2 matchup is no longer a goal and signals that the essence of college football is the "end" that truly matters. The sport justifies itself and is enough, in other words. Sure, there will be a "champion(s)" at the end of the yr., but it's deemphasized here.
Two, full-on playoff, or at worst, a +1, four-team playoff. Personally, I think an 8-team playoff would create a month of "Supergames" that we can hardly fathom the excitement of now, but that's just me.
See, I think the essence of the game is so established that the notion that games "won't matter as much" strikes me as false. College Saturdays have become an important part of American culture. Playoff or no playoff, that won't change.
SurfaceUnits
11-24-11, 02:40 AM
only when the NCAA catches up with youth sports where no points are kept and every participant is a winner will this be settled
Kyle Field '11 louder than Horseshoe '05. Jesus Cristus.
WickerBill
11-25-11, 06:45 PM
Hey Ank, hear anything about how happy/unhappy Florida fans are with Muschamp?
Zook out @ Illinois. Bummer. :gomer:
-Kevin
Hey Ank, hear anything about how happy/unhappy Florida fans are with Muschamp?
:rofl:
a friend from UF texted me this yesterday night
Strong play...building up Muschamp the way you did. Set us back a good 3-4 years...gotta hand it to ya...
He's making us miss the Zook years
Bama, LSU, Spurrier, UGa, FSU, Urban Meyer. It doesn't get worse than that. Unless you're Penn State.
Racing Truth
11-27-11, 07:57 PM
So, lemme get this straight. Almost regardless of what happens next week, we're going to get a rematch of a gawd-awful game that no one (outside of BC$ tool John Saunders) wants to see and that really won't tell us much, right?
And, on top of that, a whole LOT of games have been rendered meaningless (the 1st 'Bama-LSU game, the SEC title game, Bedlam, etc.), a sure no-no in "Ankland";)*, right?
*Not really singling you out, but just addressing the argument.
WickerBill
11-28-11, 08:13 AM
Sugar: LSU v Stanford
Rose: Alabama v OK State
Orange: Title Game
Dead simple, they'd all be sellouts, massive ratings. I'd sure as heck watch them all. Rotate which bowl gets the title like the NFL rotates the Super Bowl. In this system, if it ends up being LSU/Alabama, so be it... there can be no questions at that point.
Urban warfare be coming to Cbus. :thumbup:
-Kevin
Urban warfare be coming to Cbus. :thumbup:
-Kevin
Awesome!!!! GO BUCKS!!!!
Andrew Longman
11-28-11, 11:07 AM
Urban warfare be coming to Cbus. :thumbup:
-KevinYeah, well.
I do need to take this opportunity to point out who won on Saturday.
Go Blue!
There.
I haven't been able to crow in a while. :gomer:
Yeah, well.
I do need to take this opportunity to point out who won on Saturday.
Go Blue!
There.
I haven't been able to crow in a while. :gomer:
Yeah, but yer D gave up 34 to a pathetic O and Brax missed 3 wide open WRs for TDs. :saywhat: VERY odd season in the B1G. Should be a fun championship game...sadly I'll be on a ship cruising and will likely miss the game (unless I can finagle my way to hit a sports bar on the ship after dinner). :D
I have a feeling we're going to see a renewal of the 10-year war.
-Kevin
Yeah, but yer D gave up 34 to a pathetic O and Brax missed 3 wide open WRs for TDs. :saywhat: VERY odd season in the B1G. Should be a fun championship game...sadly I'll be on a ship cruising and will likely miss the game (unless I can finagle my way to hit a sports bar on the ship after dinner). :D
I have a feeling we're going to see a renewal of the 10-year war.
-Kevin
you have more excuses than a junky trying to talk his way out of court mandated rehab
Andrew Longman
11-28-11, 01:54 PM
you have more excuses than a junky trying to talk his way out of court mandated rehab
Thank you. There is some sick addiction associated with "the OSU".
But dando may be right and I hope he is. UofM looked more like UofM football than it has in years. Still not close to great, but better.
The world is a better place if it has a great functioning UofM/tOSU rivalry to distract it. :gomer:
you have more excuses than a junky trying to talk his way out of court mandated rehab
Is "They just weren't very good this year." an excuse? Cos that's what I'm going with.
you have more excuses than a junky trying to talk his way out of court mandated rehab
Not making excuses @ all. Just pointing out that UM came into the game with a 'vaunted' 15 pt./game D that gave up 34 to the 120+ ranked O in DI (or whatever it's called these days). The PA would have been worse if Brax could have hit one of those passes that were wide, wide open...especially Posey on the last possession. But the so-called Silver Bullets were simply duds the past 5-6 games.
Congrats to UM. Get ready to grab yer ankles...here comes Urban.
PS: yer just jealous. :p
-Kevin
Napoleon
11-28-11, 02:28 PM
Well supposedly the Bucks have hired Urban Meyer as head coach.
Well supposedly the Bucks have hired Urban Meyer as head coach.
Dude, done deal. Presser @ 5:15 and Fickell has supposedly accepted the DC position. LSU OC to tOSU as well as the former strength coach for the Goters. Also, the former Goter WR coach is already on the staff and Vrabes is there as well. Looks like a pretty good coaching staff. Good riddance Heacock and Bollman.
-Kevin
Is "They just weren't very good this year." an excuse? Cos that's what I'm going with.
apparently I have more of a penchant for the dramatic than you, "god we're so ****ing pathetic" has been my staple the past 2 seasons
Racing Truth
11-28-11, 05:01 PM
Dude, done deal. Presser @ 5:15 and Fickell has supposedly accepted the DC position. LSU OC to tOSU as well as the former strength coach for the Goters. Also, the former Goter WR coach is already on the staff and Vrabes is there as well. Looks like a pretty good coaching staff. Good riddance Heacock and Bollman.
-Kevin
I'd only dispute Vrabes. From what I've heard/read, he's been very mediocre (at best) as LB coach, but since he's boys with Luke, he probably stays.
Andrew Longman
11-28-11, 05:14 PM
PS: yer just jealous. :pNaw.
Just Oh How I Hate Ohio State. :p
Always.
But it hasn't been quite the same since Woody punched Charlie Bauman.
So, lemme get this straight. Almost regardless of what happens next week, we're going to get a rematch of a gawd-awful game that no one (outside of BC$ tool John Saunders) wants to see and that really won't tell us much, right?
And, on top of that, a whole LOT of games have been rendered meaningless (the 1st 'Bama-LSU game, the SEC title game, Bedlam, etc.), a sure no-no in "Ankland";)*, right?
*Not really singling you out, but just addressing the argument.
maybe, maybe not. w/ an everybody gets a trophy playoff wgaf about the first LSU/bama game or lsu/oregon or psu/bama or boise/georgia, or stanford/oregon or any number of early/mid-season games with national attention because of the criticality of any one game that early
WickerBill
11-28-11, 07:53 PM
That's why you have only a four team playoff. One loss could still knock you out. Every game counts, but you don't lock out a team like OK State who should have not played that game on that day.
Racing Truth
11-28-11, 08:38 PM
maybe, maybe not. w/ an everybody gets a trophy playoff wgaf about the first LSU/bama game or lsu/oregon or psu/bama or boise/georgia, or stanford/oregon or any number of early/mid-season games with national attention because of the criticality of any one game that early
LSU/Bama's already rendered meaningless. The Freaking SEC Championship is meaningless for cryin' out loud! Ok St. and Va. Tech are only playing for spots in glorified exhibitions this weekend, instead of their playoff lives.
I'll just restate my main point: Time for the NCAA to pi$$ or get off the pot. Either go to a playoff or revert back to the way it operated for decades. Either end of that spectrum is better than the current nonsense. I'd like a playoff, but I'm shockingly open to just ending the BC$ and going back to the old way.
LSU/Bama's already rendered meaningless. The Freaking SEC Championship is meaningless for cryin' out loud! Ok St. and Va. Tech are only playing for spots in glorified exhibitions this weekend, instead of their playoff lives.
I'll just restate my main point: Time for the NCAA to pi$$ or get off the pot. Either go to a playoff or revert back to the way it operated for decades. Either end of that spectrum is better than the current nonsense. I'd like a playoff, but I'm shockingly open to just ending the BC$ and going back to the old way.
The problem with the old system is that true journalism is dead. The writers/voters all have agendas now and that won't allow for an objective ranking system. It was never really fair before anyway. Playoff is the only fair solution to the mess so you can rest assured that it will never happen.
... hear anything about how happy/unhappy Florida fans are with Muschamp?
I think we are all mighty stoked to finish 6-6 with blowout losses to Bama and LSU, along with dropping games to USCe, Georgia and FSU. ;)
Between Charlie Weis hobbling around with his cane and Muschamp throwing tantrums on the sideline, our coaching staff would appear to be worse than Team Zook. UF is not the place for a first time head coach.
LSU/Bama's already rendered meaningless. T
so you say. certainly wasn't that way when the game was played, and might still be the case. the excitement and intensity of every week in the season of those games I cited goes away with a 16 team playoff. and that excitement and intensity every week are what makes d1a football great. all those weeks were fun as hell to be at games and to watch them.
WickerBill
11-29-11, 07:26 AM
"fun as hell"
Now THAT'S a new one. :)
"fun as hell"
Now THAT'S a new one. :)
All the druggies and sluts and rulebreakers and outlaws are there. Why wouldn't it be fun? :D
I'd only dispute Vrabes. From what I've heard/read, he's been very mediocre (at best) as LB coach, but since he's boys with Luke, he probably stays.
Not sure you can properly assess Vrabes considering the LB corps was questionable and thin. They even resorted to trying RB Rod Smith @ LB due to lack of depth, and they lost Sweat for the final two games (concussion and then dislocated elbow during practice for The Game). I'll agree the unit underperformed, whether it was coaching/talent/depth.
-Kevin
Andrew Longman
11-29-11, 10:10 AM
I'd like a playoff, but I'm shockingly open to just ending the BC$ and going back to the old way.Truth.
There was a time when winning "the big game" against your greatest rival and/or winning your conference championship was what mattered most.
For how many years was beating tOSU or UofM and the Big Ten title (and going to the Rose Bowl) more important than actually winning the Rose Bowl or finishing ahead of the illiterate cheaters at those "football factories" in the "rankings"?
Chasing a fictitious "writers trophy" was for other guys. The real championship was won on the field in games actually played and played against peers.
Now they actually play a conference championship game and no one usually gives a crap.
For how many years was beating tOSU or UofM and the Big Ten title (and going to the Rose Bowl) more important than actually winning the Rose Bowl
If I had Michigan's record in the Rose Bowl I'd say the same thing :gomer:
Don Quixote
11-29-11, 01:25 PM
A new drink being served in the campus bars in Columbus: The Bourbon Meyer. :D
this made me laugh out loud
"If I had Michigan's record in the Rose Bowl I'd say the same thing "
Thanks!
Andrew Longman
11-29-11, 07:30 PM
If I had Michigan's record in the Rose Bowl I'd say the same thing :gomer:Sure, but it never ruined a season... For UofM or any B10 loser.
Racing Truth
11-30-11, 06:19 PM
If I had Michigan's record in the Rose Bowl I'd say the same thing :gomer:
As a Buckeye honk, I :laugh: at that, but Longman's basically right. At least with the old system, every game really mattered in terms of conference standings. The top 2 spots nationally were important, yes, but the ultimate thing was your conference. Now, the BCS emphasizes a title, thus diminishing other things (like conference champs), but does so in a half-arsed way. The worst of all worlds.
SurfaceUnits
12-01-11, 12:23 AM
Tix for Saturday's Big Ten Championship football game at Lucas Oil Stadium selling on StubHub for $8. Plenty of them.
WickerBill
12-01-11, 08:08 AM
Evidently Wisconsin travels well, Michigan State does not (accd to local outlets)...
chop456
12-01-11, 08:10 AM
Evidently Wisconsin travels well, Michigan State does not (accd to local outlets)...
This is true. Be on the lookout for more fat white people than usual.
[Edit] 28 minutes after posting this ^, I got an e-mail from a fat, white friend - "Going to the Badgers game this weekend. Can you recommend places to eat/drink?" :laugh:
You no doubt told him all about Johnny Byrd's and the famous fried bisquet :rofl:
White Castle
Waffle House
Hardee's
Apple Bee's
Logan Steak House
Red Lobster
That should about cover it :laugh:
Don Quixote
12-01-11, 10:49 AM
Is Johnny Byrd still with us?
Ed_Severson
12-01-11, 11:20 AM
Rumor is there's a post on Craigslist offering to pay $75 and validate parking for "seat-fillers" for the game. All you have to do is wear red or green, sit through the game, and file some paperwork afterwards.
Tempting. :laugh: I wonder if they'd just let me sit in my normal seat ...
Tix for Saturday's Big Ten Championship football game at Lucas Oil Stadium selling on StubHub for $8. Plenty of them.
not even that, they're offering to pay people $75 to be "seat-fillers" for the game :rofl:
hah, Ed beat me to it. not a rumor, saw the post linked on one of the boards I peruse
As a Buckeye honk, I :laugh: at that, but Longman's basically right. At least with the old system, every game really mattered in terms of conference standings. The top 2 spots nationally were important, yes, but the ultimate thing was your conference. Now, the BCS emphasizes a title, thus diminishing other things (like conference champs), but does so in a half-arsed way. The worst of all worlds.
eh, guess that's a big 10 thing. no one in sec or big12 country cares any less about the conf title. conf title = f everyone else in the conf + bcs bowl. and that's after the bcs ruined the swc/big12 south history w/ the cotton bowl too, and the big 8 no longer was tied into the orange.
Andrew Longman
12-02-11, 01:35 AM
ank I think you just explained for yourself why the SEC and other conferences don't care about conference championships (or their conference championship games) and why they f'd college football generally.
Only the Ivys care about conference championships now.
Oh, and DIIA and DII and DIII where winning the conference still means something, if for no other reason that it greatly helps making the playoffs.
ank I think you just explained for yourself why the SEC and other conferences don't care about conference championships (or their conference championship games) and why they f'd college football generally.
I was trying to explain that down south, despite losing the cotton bowl & orange bowl ties, big12 fanbases still care about winning conference, and SEC conf title has always been a huge deal and the BCS has not detracted from that. even winning b12 south & sec east/west is a big deal. with the b12 you have a conf which most of the members despise, everyone cares about the conf title precisely because of that enmity, and it's also the free BCS bowl ticket.
whatever's changed in the big10 with that doesn't apply at all down here.
Racing Truth
12-02-11, 09:38 PM
I was trying to explain that down south, despite losing the cotton bowl & orange bowl ties, big12 fanbases still care about winning conference, and SEC conf title has always been a huge deal and the BCS has not detracted from that. even winning b12 south & sec east/west is a big deal. with the b12 you have a conf which most of the members despise, everyone cares about the conf title precisely because of that enmity, and it's also the free BCS bowl ticket.
whatever's changed in the big10 with that doesn't apply at all down here.
3 things:
All credit to you guys, but it must be noted that SEC & B12-2 conference titles have usually been relevany to the BCS title picture, too, thus giving them more import.
Broadly, I understand that conf. titles matter to individual conferences and schools. Nationally, other than 1 v. 2, meh.
Finally, nice bit of self-refutation, there.;) A playoff won't eliminate one bit of that "enmity" you cite.
Bonus ?: Do you prefer the current BCS, as is, or the pre-BCS era?
a playoff completely eliminates the level of tension of Tx-OU week. wgaf about winning the division and conference, just look good enough to get one of 8 or 16 seeds.
nationally, conf races never mattered.
Andrew Longman
12-03-11, 10:43 AM
ank, I see your point but I am not quite buying.
Another difference was of the 119 DI football programs they were/are not all the same. And the schools were/are not all the same.
Schools are tied to their communities and the value they place on education, on football and how football should connect to the schools.
Now maybe I have tinted glasses but my impression is that historically the people who settled the Midwest came there to build a better life and community and put a high premium on education. They invested handsomely in education and built some of the best universities on the planet.
They also invested well in high schools and have long felt that football was a big part of a young mans education and character development. That continued in a similar way into college. Athletes were there to help their education not the other way around. And there a many universities around the country who feel the same way.
But not to overly disparage some other universities, but the degree they feel that way, and their communities have felt that way, not so much. My experience in the Southeast and Southwest for example is that most fans don't even have any direct connection to the college other than they live in that state. It is akin to rooting for the local pro team. The players are players almost entirely and graduating or getting any sort of education is an afterthought -- if thought at all. Thus recruiting violations and cheating are far more common. Winning is paramount because that is the purpose of the football program.
That's all fine and good. That's what they want. Good for them, go for it. They and their peer schools set that as the competitive standard.
But all D1 schools are not peers in the sense of how they approach the sport and running their university in general. The conferences should group teams with their peers -- not whomever they can pair a 12 team tv deal and BCS bid with. And that's where the conference championship means something -- or at least it did. Sadly, I think most of D1 football has become what it has always been in the Southeast and Southwest.
I'll draw an analogy from NJ high school football. There are hundreds of high schools. There is no practical way to crown a state champion so it is broken into five geographic regions and four school sizes. Private schools like Don Bosco which recruits and plays nationally are split off into their own bracket.
For the season, teams are place in conferences by size and geography but also by historical strength of program. The schools that take football very seriously and communities where people literally move there so their son can play football (e.g., several shore schools) are grouped together as are the programs with small budgets and less serious goals.
Eventually in a playoff the champions from the lesser conferences play the champions from the better, but for schools the greatest satisfaction is beating their peer conference schools. Players feel little disappointment or shame in losing to the football factories come the playoffs -- and sometimes they even beat them.
I think only the Ivies now flatly say they will play no playoffs and beating their Ivy peers is what defines a season. The Yankee conference does playoffs, and occasionally do well, but beating their conference peers is that's important. Other than that, the conferences don't even look like they used to -- or will in the future. They mean nothing but a business agreement.
Sorry, but that spoils it for me.
I'd much rather just be realistic and honest about what is really going on.
Screw the NCAA. Cut them loose. Let them find some other way to make money.
Make the SEC an actual pro-league. Throw in the Pac 12 if they want. Any other conference or team can go this route if they like. These are and should just be treated as business just like any other business venture universities get into. They do it all the time in academics and graduate level research.
They can more fully operate as the minor league for the NFL and perhaps as a joint venture give the NFL the growth/new ventures they are looking for. They can quit thinking about playing in Europe and South America and expand instead into smaller markets with big time, minor league football in smaller US markets in partnership with the powerhouse football schools. The NFL would know how to do this 100x better than the NCAA and everyone wold make more money -- including the players who would earn more than enough to pay for whatever education the do or don't want.
Meanwhile, like minded universities could form conferences with their genuine peers and govern themselves and crown their own champions -- essentially what the Ivies do now.
SurfaceUnits
12-03-11, 11:39 AM
who was the first conference to divide into two divisions? was it the SEC when SC and ARK joined?
SurfaceUnits
12-03-11, 11:41 AM
ank I think you just explained for yourself why the SEC and other conferences don't care about conference championships (or their conference championship games) and why they f'd college football generally.
Only the Ivys care about conference championships now.
Oh, and DIIA and DII and DIII where winning the conference still means something, if for no other reason that it greatly helps making the playoffs.
dude, I think Alicia Silverstone has something to say about those generalisations.
Don Quixote
12-03-11, 12:50 PM
I agree with Ank. Damn, I hate it when that happens.
if you want to portray the big 10 as a noble land where education and character comes before sports after Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State have gone down, more power to you. the midwest has a long established pubic school system due to the Land Ordinance act of 1785, school building was a federal condition for land allocation. Then came the Morrill-Land Grant Act 100 years later to prop up universities.
everyone and their mother in Ohio is an Ohio State fan, but only in the south do people support college football without having direct ties to the school?
the big 10 is the conference that kicked off realignmentpaloozapocalypsegeddon with talk of 12 or 14 teams, the big 10 was the one reaching out to texas 3 years ago through backchannels via tOSU's president. the big10 kicked it off with BTN and then sought to maximize tv footprint via expansion, not the SEC, not the Pac, not the Big12. The Pac took a school they had been considering for over 20 years whose far majority of alumni reside in California in CU. The ACC took academic fits with VT and Miami. The SEC took their hilljack partner and what is now the 2nd best university after Vandy in conference in A&M. The Academic Conference took NU, an international example of of higher education, ground breaking research, and molder of high character men to the detriment of athletic success. The university whose current AD whined to no end, and still does, when the other 11 members of the big12 forced an end to Nebraska's unlimited Prop-48 partial qualifier players...
yes the big10 consists of largely very good universities, until the addition of NU, and a handful of excellent and elite ones, none of that, nor any fabled history from 250 years ago, changes any of the above.
Andrew Longman
12-03-11, 03:45 PM
Ank, just to be clear, I think the Big 10 is a mess too and has been for a while.
But they've followed where the sport took it.
College football is in a very unsustainable position and increasingly so IMO.
I just see that it the sport should be real about what's really going on.
Let the semi pro schools actually be semi pro because a lot of people actually like that and it does no real harm.
But let the schools that what to play serious football while maintaining any actual scholar/athlete status and principles of sport as character development do just that.
To pretend the two any longer have anything to do with each other is a joke and has been for at least 30 years now -- but in that time MORE not fewer schools have joined DI.
And given the costs (how much did Urban Meyer get? :saywhat:) it is in now way sustainable without either further corrupting the faux values of the sport or just getting real about the commercial realities.
completely agree, but that's the NFL's doing. college has filled the market gap that the NFL has left, which MLB and NBA have not
SurfaceUnits
12-03-11, 06:27 PM
Notre Dame has had its own network since 1991.
I don't even know how we got to 7 wins, jesus.
oklahoma state playing defense and rushing?
that's not right, they dont play in the SEC?!
hpoe they run up 70 on stoops
http://i.imgur.com/pzyhF.jpg
Racing Truth
12-04-11, 08:12 PM
Various insiders on Twitter say its a done deal: We're gonna get the least-watched NC game ever- The Rematch.:shakehead Nice system fellas, nice system. F Jim Delaney.:flame:
a playoff completely eliminates the level of tension of Tx-OU week. wgaf about winning the division and conference, just look good enough to get one of 8 or 16 seeds.
nationally, conf races never mattered.
I agree with you in the case of a 16-teamer, to a point. But not w/8 or fewer- very fine MoE. Besides you don't think the hate you and Okie have would endure no matter what? I do.
Besides you don't think the hate you and Okie have would endure no matter what? I do.
it's still not do or die guaranteed. you people still have your rose bowl and are saying you don't care anymore b/c of the random possibility of no pac10 big 10, and want to make the opposite argument?
tOSU loses to Duke in the ACC challenge, wgaf, no bearing on your tourney chances. lose in the season and you need a ton of help to make that title game. no matter how you try to reframe the argument, that reality of live or die every week remains, regardless of this ******** manufactured title game result, but that has more to do w/ ESPN shilling. Not a BCS fan but it still took multiple big time upsets to get bama through. Boise, Stanford, Oregon repeat loss, OkSt, OU, VT, Clemson...
SurfaceUnits
12-05-11, 07:08 PM
College football playoffs in 2014. you read it here first
Racing Truth
12-05-11, 09:30 PM
it's still not do or die guaranteed. you people still have your rose bowl and are saying you don't care anymore b/c of the random possibility of no pac10 big 10, and want to make the opposite argument?
tOSU loses to Duke in the ACC challenge, wgaf, no bearing on your tourney chances. lose in the season and you need a ton of help to make that title game. no matter how you try to reframe the argument, that reality of live or die every week remains, regardless of this ******** manufactured title game result, but that has more to do w/ ESPN shilling. Not a BCS fan but it still took multiple big time upsets to get bama through. Boise, Stanford, Oregon repeat loss, OkSt, OU, VT, Clemson...
To the first paragraph, not me. I don't object to the possibility of such a Rose occuring, IFFFFF we get a legitimate championship matchup. Some in B1G country do fret about this. but they're mainly old farts.;)
In the main, fine, I'll say it: Having a legitimate, undisputed champion, and a compelling postseason is more important to me than a compelling regular season that ends in a confused muddle. If it were me, I'm willing to risk it "ruining college football," mostly b/c I think you GREATLY exaggerate the possibility of this happening. Yep, we're gonna disagree on that.
BTW: I'm far more interested in engaging with folks like you, who honestly think a playoff would damage the game, over various AD's, chancellors and other moneywhores who give out BS about why they oppose a playoff.
Oh yeah, I'd still be interested in an answer to this: What do you prefer, the BCS as is, or the old, pre-BCS system? And why?
eh, they both have their pros and their cons. with the old system, Boise, TCU, Utah, don't anywhere close to sniffing a major bowl, no matter how many years in a row they went undefeated. personally couldn't care less about the rose bowl "sanctity." but it was fun having those bowls on new years day, instead of spread out over a week. the matchups were far better than this diluted "everybody gets a trophy" b.s. with the 5th BCS game (title game) and all the automatic qualification rules for the little guys that results in BS like TCU vs Boise, Cinci vs VT, Pitt vs Utah. Clemson WVU for the Orange? Really? Michigan VT the Sugar? wow, exciting... 4 bowls with their tie ins and the 2 or 3 at large picks they'd make made for much better matchups back in the 90's, even in the early 2000's before all the "anti-trust" whining from the MWC.
with the BCS, we have this abortion. although I think it's gotten worse the past 5 years. a decade ago ESPN didn't drive the heisman voting and polls to the extent they currently do, and voters weren't as craven with their self interest as they are now. back then a poll's a poll, now a poll's a tool to rig the results. But we don't have the inanity of 1994 Penn State & Nebraska, or 1997 Michigan & Nebraska. If 2 teams run the table like that, they're likely playing for the title (the exception proves the rule).
2005 was the perfect ending, Texas and Southern Cal were the 3rd and 4th teams ever to put up 50pts/game over a season (83 nebraska, one of those cheating John Jenkins Houston teams, 91 maybe) with the far majority of their defensive 2 deep on NFL rosters still ('04 USC was an even better D), having a playoff that year would've been dumb, same in '02 w/ tOSU Miami '99 FSU VT and '00 FSU OU. Seems like that 98-05 bcs era is gone though. media too intent on manufacturing the result they want now. And I guess '06 is when the 5th bowl started, that 5th one should've been a plus 1 if they were going to add a game, now it's just dilution of inventory.
W/ BCS era, we're much more interested nationally in what were previously regional games as they affect the title race, and we sure as hell never cared about what teams in the MAC, MWC, or WAC were up to before.
one more thing though. in the end I'm a huge BCS fan to the extent that it beats the alternative of the NCAA controlling a playoff and pocketing the money the way they do the NCAA tourney. See how much CBS pays per year for that? Guess how much a team makes per appearance in the tourney? Around 200K per game.
Unless the NCAA allows the major conferences to run their own playoff and keep their money, BCS will be here to stay.
Boise, SDSU, U of H, SMU, and UCF joining Big East Pacific Division :laugh:
Big East has no business being in the BCS anymore, jesus. WVU's gonna be gone, ACC took total spares in Pitt and SU to make the conf attractive for ND... wtf does the Big East have outside of Papa Johns Stadium? There are HS stadiums in TX bigger than U of H's, SMU's, Boise's, and Cinci's.
cameraman
12-06-11, 03:56 PM
Well Boise State's stadium is blue and that should be enough:gomer:
SurfaceUnits
12-15-11, 05:44 PM
just saw a blip that congress is forming a committee targeted towards college athletics. Man that will turn out grate :rolleyes:
/\they just want in on the goodies those bowl committee's dole out /\
Did anybody else see HBO's sports special on bowl committee's? I hope they get it figured out so they can get busy with the social security issue :shakehead
stroker
12-15-11, 05:54 PM
just saw a blip that congress is forming a committee targeted towards college athletics.
Well of course they have! It's not like they've got something better to do like pass a budget...
:shakehead
McQueary said he was not told that police had previously investigated prior sandusky incidents. #McQueary
39 seconds ago
"I would have said that it was extremely sexual and that some type of intercourse was going on," McQueary said of talk with officials.
1 minute ago
PatriotNews The Patriot-News
"I would have said that Jerry was in there in very close proximity with a boy with his arms wrapped around him," McQueary said. #PSUcharges
2 minutes ago
McQueary said he told Curley/Schultz: "What I had seen was extremely sexual, extremely wrong,"
3 minutes ago
McQueary said he met with Curley/Schultz in the Bryce Jordan Center to discuss matter. He said Paterno contacted the officials. #PSUcharges
McQueary says AD Tim Curley contacted him next. #PSUcharges
5 minutes ago
McQueary said Paterno told him: "Sorry you had to see that. You did the right thing." #McQueary
6 minutes ago
McQueary: Paterno needed to know since he was the head coach. #McQueary
8 minutes ago
"Never said "anal interrcourse" to Paterno "out of respect," McQueary said. #PSUcharges.
8 minutes ago
"The rough positioning I would have described, but not in very much detail," McQueary said of what he told Paterno at his house.
9 minutes ago
McQueary: "(Paterno) said 'if it's about a job, don't bother, I don't have one for you.' McQueary tells him it's not. #psu charges
10 minutes ago
McQueary called Paterno next morning between 7:30 a.m. to 8 a.m. Said: "Coach, I need to talk to you."
11 minutes ago
McQueary said he went to father's house. Over time the two decided what he should do. Decided to call Joe Paterno and tell him. #PSUcharges
12 minutes ago
Told him what he saw, said "what i saw was wrong." Said he needed advice. Father told him to come home right away.
14 minutes ago
McQueary on why he called dad: "I really didn't know what to do."
15 minutes ago
McQueary was 27 at the time.
16 minutes ago
McQueary: "I called my father," upon going to office.
16 minutes ago
McQueary said he didn't say anything to Sandusky or the boy. Didn't intervene. Decided to go to his office in building.
16 minutes ago
"Seeing that they were separated, I thought it was best to leave locker room. Frankly you can't describe what I thought or was feeling."
17 minutes ago
"I know they saw me. They looked directly in my eyes," McQueary said.
18 minutes ago
"They both turned so their bodies were facing me. They were four or five feet apart," McQueary said.
18 minutes ago
McQueary then decided to move toward shower and look in before leaving. Jerry and the boy were apart.
19 minutes ago
PatriotNews The Patriot-News
"I stepped back, didn't want to see it anymore to be frank with you. I closed my locker door," McQueary said.
19 minutes ago
"Jerry molesting the boy," McQueary said is what he saw.
20 minutes ago
PatriotNews The Patriot-News
McQueary said he did not hear Jerry or the boy say anything or make any other verbal noises.
20 minutes ago
PatriotNews The Patriot-News
"I'd say slow movement, certainly not hard or fast movement," McQueary said of what he saw.
21 minutes ago
McQueary: "I believe Jerry was sexually molesting him and having some type of intercourse with him."
22 minutes ago
PatriotNews The Patriot-News
The boy looked to be between 10-12 years old, McQueary said.
23 minutes ago
"I did not see any insertion, did not hear any protest, screaming or yelling," McQueary said.
24 minutes ago
"The boy was up against the wall, facing the wall. Jerry was directly behind him in a very close position."
25 minutes ago
McQueary went back to locker, stepped to the right to make sure he saw what he thought he saw. Jerry was behind young boy in shower.
25 minutes ago
McQueary saw in a 45 degree mirror image Jerry Sandusky, "shocking and surprisingly saw Jerry in the shower with a boy."
26 minutes ago
When he opened locker door McQueary said he heard "Rhythmic Slapping Sound." He heard two or three slaps.
28 minutes ago
what? f*** 'em /Blago
EDwardo
01-02-12, 06:48 PM
Those Ducks got some pretty shiny helmets.
SurfaceUnits
01-03-12, 11:58 AM
well, looks like THE ncaa violatin State University is good for something http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5187.html
Don Quixote
01-03-12, 01:01 PM
well, looks like THE ncaa violatin State University is good for something http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5187.htmlTroll. :D
Methanolandbrats
01-03-12, 01:11 PM
Those Ducks got some pretty shiny helmets.
BUcky Vs Ducks. Football coaches = proof that retards can earn big bucks.
Insomniac
01-08-12, 07:27 PM
Will WVU be in the Big 12 or Big East? I assume they make some type of financial settlement and are in the Big 12.
racermike
01-10-12, 12:34 AM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/864316/LSUSpinner.png
Don Quixote
01-10-12, 08:47 AM
I think Okie State would have soundly thrashed either one of these teams, but what can you do? SECSECSEC.
Andrew Longman
01-10-12, 09:44 AM
I think Okie State would have soundly thrashed either one of these teams, but what can you do? SECSECSEC.
I am very impressed with the speed and athleticism of both teams defense.
I am very unimpressed with their schemes and with both teams ability to make adjustments.
LSU didn't seem to do anything to change up against the Bama speed. And the QB looked completely overmatched mentally.He ran the option worse than a HS freshman -- he must make the LB commit and repeatedly did not. Blocks by both teams were just flat out missed again and again. Bad snaps. Overall, not impressed with either the coaching or play of LSU. Same for Bama playcalling that got so few points when close in.
Bama's kicker's career long FG is 44 yards?
Sorry, just not convinced these were the two best teams in the nation. Very good, sure. But if a good coach had a month to prepare a very good team I would expect better.
I have to think Luck would have picked them apart.
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