Osama Bin Laden dead?!?

[cameraman]

Well the drunken *******s partying outside the Utah State prison at midnight to celebrate the execution of a well-deserving maggot did not exactly fill me with pride in my fellow citizens either. Celebrating finding/killing bin Laden in the streets like it was a football win was off-putting to me. We have paid a pretty steep price over the last decade to do that job and it in no way finishes anything. We have just as many people deployed in just as many places as we did last Friday, we are not much closer to getting any of them home.

[stroker]

I just try to keep the photo of the folks jumping off the World Trade Center and Danny Pearl in mind. I have no problem with any of it, then.

[Corner5]

The iconic photo of the White House situation room is already

being shopped-

a collection of them here-

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/05/the-situation-room-meme-the-shortest-route-from-bin-laden-to-lulz/238251/

My favorite-

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/easel/images/galleries/105337_better_partyhats.jpg

Defcon Hats :)

[stroker]

^^^^a fashion improvement for Hillary.

[Corner5]

more-

http://static.bltwy.com/Photos/Original/40204_Original.jpg


:cool:

[extramundane]

The iconic photo of the White House situation room is already

being shopped-

a collection of them here-

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/695/z3q0y.jpg

[dando]

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/695/z3q0y.jpg

Got damn....Biden was awake! :gomer:

-Kevin

[KLang]

It's been reported a couple places that Biden blabbed it was a SEAL team that took out Bin Laden.

[Ankf00]

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/5/2/0/enhanced-buzz-18374-1304310822-12.jpg

[Don Quixote]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u220/mikemarkham316/223368_10100732929784683_5231701_68740033_6418133_ n.jpg

[dando]

It's been reported a couple places that Biden blabbed it was a SEAL team that took out Bin Laden.

What's amazing is that he was actually awake to know that the SEALS were involved. :gomer:

-Kevin

[Wally]

Photo of the downed Blackhawk helicopter's tail rotor:

www.sfgate.com (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2011/05/02/national/w000951D51.DTL&object=%2Fc%2Fpictures%2F2011%2F05%2F02%2Fba-Pakistan_Bin__0503406798.jpg)

Hard to say if the damage is a result of the crash landing or the demolition charges set afterward. Glad none of the assault team was hurt.

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/6436/bapakistanbin0503406798.jpg

It's been implied that this isn't your average UH-60 if at all.

http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/secret-stealth-helped-us-accomplish-bin-laden-raid-29522/

[Ankf00]

stealth? on that old ass airframe? no way.

low observability modifications? would be shocked if they weren't upgrading their equipment whenever possible

[cameraman]

I find it interesting that the Pakistanis were so quick to put up rugs to hide the helo bits from view. For being so put out by the raid they sure were helpful in covering the wreckage from view.

It doesn't look all that different.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/Cynops/mh-60k-fuel-tanks.jpg

[Wally]

Another, doesn't look like your fathers Blackhawk ;)

http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-202_162-10007657-4.html?tag=page;next

[SteveH]

Would seem to me that rotors would be awfully hard to make stealthy. But I have no background in this.

Anyone know?

[cameraman]

Well that's a good reason for the rugs...

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/Cynops/helotail.jpg

[Gnam]

Cool. Wonder if the disc rotor is quieter too?

fantasy artwork: http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/mh-x3.jpg

[cameraman]

Glad to see we didn't flush all that money we spent on the Comanche down the toilet...

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/Cynops/tail3.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/Cynops/tail2.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/Cynops/RAH-66.jpg

And those demolition charges really work...

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/Cynops/blownup.jpg

[Gnam]

Army Times has a story with an unnamed source confirming the program exists. Includes a theory about why it crashed.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/05/army-mission-helocopter-was-secret-stealth-black-hawk-050411/

[Wally]

I find it interesting that the Pakistanis were so quick to put up rugs to hide the helo bits from view. For being so put out by the raid they sure were helpful in covering the wreckage from view.


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/Cynops/mh-60k-fuel-tanks.jpg

To your point I thought the same thing. Who would facilitate and supervise this ? ( not that they were successful) CIA spooks on site?

[EVL29]

MxVdU2eVYSg&feature=player_embedded

[cameraman]

The aviation geeks are out in force.

http://images.defensetech.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/silent-hawk.jpg

[Andrew Longman]

Army Times has a story with an unnamed source confirming the program exists. Includes a theory about why it crashed.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/05/army-mission-helocopter-was-secret-stealth-black-hawk-050411/Thanks. That's an example of geeky informed sanity I expect here.

I also have a bunch of reasons to be happy about these event. Among them, not at the to,p but in my mind, is that it pushed the goofy royal wedding off the news. :D:thumbup:

[stroker]

...that it pushed the goofy royal wedding off the news. :D:thumbup:

And effing Charlie Sheen.

[Ankf00]

It's been reported a couple places that Biden blabbed it was a SEAL team that took out Bin Laden.

the only places i've seen that are partisan/non-news places, from monday morning on, every news story stated that it was dev group/team 6, profiles on JSOC's history and mission, JSOC's leadership (hook 'em, plus a dude from HS in that unit too, badasses), profiles on dev group history & personnel selection, and I read multiple mentions across media sunday night of it being seals. he may be the first official to acknowledge it, but it was leaked to everyone and their mother from the first moments (by congressional staffs, no less).

[TKGAngel]

The stupid, it hurts. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-04/osama-bin-ladens-death-teens-who-didnt-know-who-he-was/)


It [Yahoo] adds that 40 percent of all searches for who killed him were from users between the ages of 13 and 20.

If these children are our future, we might be screwed. Are their parents not discussing current events with them?

[Ankf00]

OBL hasn't been a current event for years

[extramundane]

The stupid, it hurts. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-04/osama-bin-ladens-death-teens-who-didnt-know-who-he-was/)

If these children are our future, we might be screwed. Are their parents not discussing current events with them?

It's not just kids: http://wheresmyapprentice.tumblr.com/

[gjc2]

it was dev group/team 6, profiles on JSOC's history and mission,

What's a "dev" and what's "JSOC"

[racer2c]

The stupid, it hurts. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-04/osama-bin-ladens-death-teens-who-didnt-know-who-he-was/)



If these children are our future, we might be screwed. Are their parents not discussing current events with them?

Most kids don't know who their dads are let alone OBL. At least in Florida. :)

[NismoZ]

Yep, that pretty well nails it. Age and ignorance aren't necessarily related.

[TKGAngel]

Most kids don't know who their dads are let alone OBL. At least in Florida. :)

Heh. The B-lo school superintendent made a comment recently that there are some kids coming to kindergarten that don't know their names. I hope that he meant that the kids don't know how to WRITE their names, because if they make it to kindergarten not knowing their names, then that's just sad.

[Ankf00]

What's a "dev" and what's "JSOC"

short for Naval Special Warfare Development Group (DevGru), the "new(er)" name for the old mythic Seal Team 6.

JSOC = Joint Special Operations Command, special department within SOCOM (specops command), that runs Delta & DevGroup/Team6 itself. Works intimately with CIA post-9/11 in all the rendition/hit squad type shenanigans, and i'm sure various other things we'll never hear about

[dando]

Heh. The B-lo school superintendent made a comment recently that there are some kids coming to kindergarten that don't know their names. I hope that he meant that the kids don't know how to WRITE their names, because if they make it to kindergarten not knowing their names, then that's just sad.

Oh, you should not be surprised. There's quite a range out there....I have to deal with parents on a daily basis picking up our youngest from pre-school. They let there kids run around in the parking lot unattended, can't figure out the driving/parking pattern (8 mos. into the school year no less), and ignore the no cell phone rules constantly. :irked: The stupidity just trickles down. :shakehead I have also volunteered @our oldest DD's K and 1st grade classes, and the aptitude of the kids ranges immensely. I know they there are averages, but some of them are extremely high and low. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[Ankf00]

I want to say it's Carlin, but I can't remember, it's something like:

"Think how stupid the average person is, and then think how half the population is even stupider."

[devilmaster]

I want to say it's Carlin, but I can't remember, it's something like:

"Think how stupid the average person is, and then think how half the population is even stupider."

Think about how dumb the average person is, then realize, that half the people, are dumber than that. - George Carlin. (One of my favorite quotes)

[TravelGal]

well golly gee, what an old sourpuss. I betcha he never lived in Lake Wobegon (where ALL the children are above average, in case you're not a Garrison Keillor fan) ;)

[SurfaceUnits]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Applications_Group

1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta (1st SFOD-D) is one of the United States\' secretive Tier One counter-terrorism and Special Mission Units. Commonly known as Delta, or Delta Force, it was formed under the designation 1st SFOD-D, and is officially referred to by the Department of Defense as Combat Applications Group.[2] This unit is an elite Special Operations Force, and an Army Compartmented Element of the Joint Special Operations Command. Delta Force is the United States\' primary counter-terrorism unit.

[SurfaceUnits]

One of his wives...

It was his 5th wife,,,but a good muslim can only be married to 4 wives at any one time, so he had to divorce one so he could marry lucky #5

[SurfaceUnits]

Of course leaders have been depersonalizing their enemies since the beginning of time, but that doesn\'t make it right.

true dat,,,we should be like the radical muslims and only use machettes and chopping blocks

[datachicane]

true dat,,,we should be like the radical muslims and only use machettes and chopping blocks

...or radical Christians with trucks full of fertilizer, handguns, ropes and trees.
:saywhat:

Did you have a point?

[SurfaceUnits]

...or radical Christians with trucks full of fertilizer, handguns, ropes and trees.
:saywhat:

Did you have a point?

how many? and the government hasnt burned any more women or children lately have they

the worst part about evil is what it causes otherwise good people to have to resort to in order to defeat it and to keep from being defeated by it. you are just a few chromosomes away from being just another animal. If your great-great grand daddy had popped out on the left side of the mud puddle instead of the right side, their is no telling what you may have been

[Napoleon]

"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." - Mark Twain

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/02osama-bin-laden-obituary.html

I saw that quote a few days ago. Great quote. So much in life can be explained with either a quote from Samuel Clemens or Eric Arthur Blair.



This is my favorite shot from last night. http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2011/05/02/world/20110502_REAX-8.html

That pic has been my wallpaper since Monday morn. Great pic.



I'm sure back in 1945 when Hitler's body was found in a ditch on fire . .

Which by the way was also a May 2nd.

[Ed_Severson]

I saw that quote a few days ago. Great quote. So much in life can be explained with either a quote from Samuel Clemens of Eric Arthur Blair.

It is a great quote. Unfortunately, it's not real. The closest he ever came to writing anything like that was "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."

[Napoleon]

Too bad - it is amazing how many bad quotes get into circulation.

[Ed_Severson]

Yep. I got suckered into posting that one elsewhere before I found out it wasn't legit. There was also a substantial misquote of Martin Luther King Jr. making the rounds. Ain't the internets grand?

[Napoleon]

Al Qaeda confirms bin Laden's death. (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/06/al-qaeda-confirms-bin-ladens-dead/)

[dando]

I saw that quote a few days ago. Great quote. So much in life can be explained with either a quote from Samuel Clemens or Eric Arthur Blair.

Or Seinfeld show quotes. Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

-Kevin

[Racing Truth]

It is a great quote. Unfortunately, it's not real. The closest he ever came to writing anything like that was "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."

I actually like that better than the apocryphal quote. A lot like the Burke apocryphal "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[Napoleon]

A lot like the Burke apocryphal "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

There are echos of that quote in the ideas set forth in MLK's Letter from Birmingham Jail, IMO one of the great English language political documents of all time.

[Andrew Longman]

The stupid, it hurts. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-04/osama-bin-ladens-death-teens-who-didnt-know-who-he-was/)



If these children are our future, we might be screwed. Are their parents not discussing current events with them?

That's OK. With a gun to my head I couldn't tell you more than one American Idol winner. And I'd be really nervous about whether I was right.

In a pinch, though I could always call a lifeline to my daughter (oops wrong stupid show). She knows lots of things... including who OBL was.:gomer:

[cameraman]

It is a great quote. Unfortunately, it's not real. The closest he ever came to writing anything like that was "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."

****ing internet.:flame: But I have to say that "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." also works for me.

[Napoleon]

Or Seinfeld show quotes.

Seinfeld? No way, Monty Python (and truth be told I was more of a Seinfeld fan).

[Andrew Longman]

Apparently,the youtube embed thing at OC isn't working so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiDyrkU0WAQ&feature=player_embedded

PM me. I'll tell you how to do it. Trevor taught me.

[Andrew Longman]

But as for me personally, I think chanting "USA USA USA" hit it's high water mark at Lake Placid back in 1980. Just saying.

:cool:Agree. And ironically that came 7-8 weeks after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan.

[Elmo T]

Osama's Porn Stash Found (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20062676-503543.html)

If even he can't keep it under wraps, there is certainly no hope for the rest of us. :rofl:

[Napoleon]

Osama's Porn Stash Found (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20062676-503543.html)

If even he can't keep it under wraps, there is certainly no hope for the rest of us. :rofl:


Damn it - you beat me to this one!

[cameraman]

The NY Post takes it to uncharted levels...


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/Cynops/770qw.jpg

[Napoleon]

The NY Post takes it to uncharted levels...


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/Cynops/770qw.jpg

Awesome.

I can't wait to see what The Daily Show and Colbert Report do with this tonight.

[indyfan31]

Interesting reconstruction of the raid in The New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_schmidle?currentPage=all).
Don't know how much is true, but it makes for a compelling read.

[WickerBill]

That article makes me realize journalism is not yet dead.

[nrc]

Yeah, agreed. Good information without a lot of novelist wannabe embellishment.

[Gnam]

News says 20 members from Seal Team 6 were killed in AF when their helicopter crashed/was shot down. The article isn't clear how many of the 20 participated in the raid that killed Bin Laden.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44043847/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/?gt1=43001

This sucks. :(

[Indy]

I have heard 30, 31 and 38 dead in different news stories. :(

October 7, 2001 was the day we invaded Afghanistan. Almost ten years. :flame:

[miatanut]

I have heard 30, 31 and 38 dead in different news stories. :(

October 7, 2001 was the day we invaded Afghanistan. Almost ten years. :flame:

If it wasn't for the Iraq war diverting resources and focus, the Afghanistan war would be won and done.

[dando]

If it wasn't for the Iraq war diverting resources and focus, the Afghanistan war would be won and done.

I'm not going to go the political route here, but I believe the Russkies proved that winning in Afghanistan is simply unpossible (and now NATO). Outside of opium, there simply isn't an economy to sustain the country, and the 'government' is simply not trustworthy. A few daisy cutters would work well there. :\

-Kevin

[TrueBrit]

I'm not going to go the political route here, but I believe the Russkies proved that winning in Afghanistan is simply unpossible (and now NATO). Outside of opium, there simply isn't an economy to sustain the country, and the 'government' is simply not trustworthy. A few daisy cutters would work well there. :\

-Kevin

There's a reason it's nickname is 'the graveyard of empires'...The Brits and the Commies learned that the hard way...America? Not so much...

[miatanut]

I'm not going to go the political route here, but I believe the Russkies proved that winning in Afghanistan is simply unpossible (and now NATO). Outside of opium, there simply isn't an economy to sustain the country, and the 'government' is simply not trustworthy. A few daisy cutters would work well there. :\

-Kevin

The USSR failed there. The USSR doesn't exist anymore.

I wouldn't argue it is easy, but parts of the country are reasonably orderly now, and I don't think anyone could argue the Iraq diversion helped matters. There would most certainly be a larger area that would be reasonably orderly now if not for that. At some point things are orderly enough in a large enough area we can leave reasonably assured the Taliban won't take the whole thing back. It's not necessary for everything to be perfectly under control.

[nrc]

Certainly if we had maintained focus and effort we would have better results in Afghanistan. Unfortunately I don't assume that we would have maintained focus if it weren't for Iraq or that "better results" means a clear win.

[Andrew Longman]

IOutside of opium, there simply isn't an economy to sustain the country, ...I read a while back about the mineral bonanza the country offers. Just no infrastructure, ports, railroads, etc. to move any of it to market.

But Rio Tinto is building what will be the largest copper mine in the world in Mongolia. Something like 160,000 workers in the middle of nowhere needing to build everything -- road, schools, homes, hospitals, railroads, stores, everything. If the price for minerals is right anything is possible.

But a willing and trustworthy government partner is needed too to lure investment.

[nrc]

I was kind of surprised that they lost so many in one attack. Evidently they've been using a special version of the Chinook for a lot of assaults. The Army originally started using it instead of the Blackhawk for missions where altitude was problem and found it to be better overall because of it's speed, range, and capacity.

Sadly, it's also a big target and one RPG can turn that capacity into a lot of casualties. :(

[TKGAngel]

The 10 year old son of the Chinook pilot asks the public (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/08/09/chinook.son.ireport/index.html) not to forget his dad. Can one of you pass me some tissues, please?

And to go back to the New Yorker article posted in this thread, the author is coming under scrutiny (http://www.adweek.com/news/press/new-yorker-writer-under-scrutiny-over-bin-laden-raid-article-133950) for mainly relying on secondhand sources.

[dando]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/10/fatal-seal-mission-was-not-a-rescue/


Gen. Allen said the fleeing Taliban thought responsible for the fatal Chinook crash have since been killed by a strike from U.S. F-16 fighter jets.

“We tracked them, as we would in the aftermath of any operation, and we dealt with them with a kinetic strike,” he said. “In the aftermath of that, we have achieved certainty that they in fact were killed in that strike.”

He also said the Taliban leader who was the target of the original Ranger mission in the Tangi Valley remained at large.

In a separate statement afterward, the U.S. military said the Taliban guerrilla who fired the rocket-propelled grenade is among the dead. The statement cited ground-based intelligence but did not significantly elaborate.
The general said an investigation will begin shortly to determine exactly how the CH-47 crashed and how the mission was planned.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

-Kevin

[KLang]

As usual, the initial reports weren't quite accurate: Not a rescue mission. (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/10/fatal-seal-mission-was-not-a-rescue/)

I'd like to know why an air strike wasn't called in instead. :confused:

[dando]

I'd like to know why an air strike wasn't called in instead. :confused:

I'm guessing because it was a night-time mission. :confused:

-Kevin

[KLang]

A different account (http://news.yahoo.com/correcting-fairy-tale-seal-account-osama-bin-laden-054233289.html) of the raid that got Bin Laden has emerged.

The earlier story of a 45 minute assault up through the house never made sense to me.

[Insomniac]

I didn't want to bump this yesterday, but I finally watched 60 minutes from Sunday. It was interesting to hear the story, but the best part of the whole segment was when they showed some quick footage of people outside the WH and in NYC after we found out he was dead. I admit, I felt a lot of joy and pride when I found out.

[Andrew Longman]

I'd like to know why an air strike wasn't called in instead. :confused:Late to the game, but...

They considered it, but they weren't absolutely sure he was even there. Some put it at 50/50. Blowing the place up would destroy any highly valuable intelligence that was there and foster speculation that they hadn't actually killed him. That doubt would be a negative they could never disprove. And keep in mind the mission would be in sovereign nation practically next to their national military academy. Finally, giving proper Muslim treatment of the body ensured the site would never become a site of martyrdom.

Actually putting SEALS on the ground brought significant risk but also gave flexibility and the "high touch" SEALS bring that helped deal with a bunch of other risks. Instead, Obama, to get that extra flexibility to manage one set of risks, he asked for and got contingencies to increase the chance of success for a plan that simply could not fail.

Regardless of your politics, it was IMO a pretty brainy, thoughtful decision. Moreover, the unaccounted for risk was largely a bet-the-ranch political one for Obama. (and not for a second do I want to minimize or dismiss the very real risks to life and limb the SEALS risked. You don't get to retire to the speakers circuit from that sort of failure)