Satellite TV

[Napoleon]

So I have had cable for years and year (currently Time-Warner) and a month or so ago, without really announcing it, they change their set up so that a few discrete channels that I assume they figure hard core views would get an entire cable package just to have those channels now need a box. You know, stuff like Speed, Oprah’s channel, some home shopping channel, etc. It turns out you need to use the box all the time to change channels for everything, which long story short screws up my ability to easily record shows, so this pretty much has brought me to the screw cable view point. For what it is worth I also get broadband through my cable provider and I do want to keep that especially since I got an HD TV and blu-ray with streaming ability late last year.

Which brings me to my question, do people here who have satellite TV happy with it and what should I look out for in looking for a provider? I guess if I am going to make the move I should do it sooner rather than later so I can see some of the F-1 season this year.

[racer2c]

I've had the same question for some time. My sister and father in law are hard core satellite fans, while I've always stuck to my cable package (TV/Phone/Internet). When I go to their house I hate having to fumble my way around their systems, but that is just from unfamiliarity. They can pull channels that I can't but my cable is much more stable.

[KLang]

I've been with Dish Network for almost 10 years. I've been using their HD DVR's and am quite pleased. Dish has a couple HD channels that DirectTV doesn't like BBC America and AMC. On the other hand if you are really into sports DirectTV would be a better choice.

[Napoleon]

Whoops, left something out of original post - how do you handle local channels?

[dando]

Nap, just an FYI, you will need a box next year whether it's cable, dbs or OTA. The FCC mandate for analog support w/o an STB ends in 2/2012. My experience with dbs in oHIo has not been good due to rain fade, cloud fade, etc. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[KLang]

Whoops, left something out of original post - how do you handle local channels?

We get all the major networks in HD from Dish. You would likely get all the locals in HD from either provider. Dish no longer charges extra for locals, I'm not sure about DirectTV.

[Napoleon]

Nap, just an FYI, you will need a box next year whether it's cable, dbs or OTA. The FCC mandate for analog support w/o an STB ends in 2/2012. My experience with dbs in oHIo has not been good due to rain fade, cloud fade, etc. :saywhat:

-Kevin

But my TV and DVR box are all digital compatable.

[Napoleon]

Ps, I have no problem with using a box but I do using a box that replaces the device I use to pick the channel I watch, which can either be the TV it self or if I am going to record something through my home stereo system with the DVR/VHS recorder acting as the the tuner box.

[KLang]

I don't think you are going to find a solution that lets you change channels on your TV if that is what you are after. The satellite receiver will change the channel just like a cable box.

[G.]

There is almost no point to having a TV with a tuner and anything other than "channel 3" anymore. :\

Dish fan, but I'll admit I've been sniffing around at AT&T cable a bit, just for the 'net speeds (I'm at 3 MBs down).

[WickerBill]

DirecTV here, 11 years, loved almost every minute of it. Get your dish pointed accurately -- especially the newer dishes used for HD -- and you won't get rain fade unless it's extraordinarily strong, and even then, only for the time it's super-heavy in the southwestern sky.

I do get more weather interruptions on DirecTV than I did on Comcast, but the total time down isn't even close. When Comcast goes down with an outage, it's a cut cable or a downed line, and it takes days to come back. I'll stick with a 3-5 minute delay during a bad storm TYVM.

DVRs are very good, channel lineup is very good, etc. I'd forgo television before I went back to Comcast.

[Andrew Longman]

DTV more than 5 years now. HD for about 2.5. Works great.

Weather issues were more of a problem a the first few years. Hardly ever an issue now and never for more than a minute or two. Lightning strikes would often knock out the cable system for long periods when we had it.

You might want to consider just getting the dvr/sat box combo DTV offers. Does everything the dvr does and work seemlessly with the sat box programming guide. I have several ones of different models and ages (as we've added and replaced some over the years) and they all work great. My only harp is the program guide interface is different on each and I like some designs more than others.

Local channels are part of the basic package, but in my case I had to pick NYC or Philly markets. On cable and over the air I used to get both. So I don't get local philly news and see fewer Eagles games. Don't care. If I did I could hook the antenna back up and easily taggle back and forth to them right off the remote.

They come with a good universal programmable remote. Simple design and I have one room where it controls the sat, tv, vcr and stereo home theatre.

I have also found DTV customer service to be quick, informed and helpful when something went screwy with Trevors HD service and when the wife brought home a "free" sat box from a yard sale and wanted me to hook it up.
My original boxes also crapped out in about 3 years-- which I thought was a little quick. But DTV service helped me with that too.

[dando]

But my TV and DVR box are all digital compatable.

Doesn't matter. You'll need a box or cable card to unscramble the signal once the analog life support is pulled next Feb (unless they delay the switch again, which I don't think they can since the Feds sold the frequencies a few years ago). However, if you have an HD TV that has an HD tuner you will be able to get local channels OTA with an HD antenna. dbs might better than when I had it 5-6 years ago, but even with 99% signal strength I had rain fade @ least once or twice a month during the spring/summer or heavy snow fall. Cable cos. also very greatly since they are franchises. My mom has TWC in Hilton Head, which was formerly Aldephia, and TWC inherited a complete fuster cluck of a system down there, which they are just now upgrading to the newer technology. In fact, they now get the newer features that we don't have yet. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[SurfaceUnits]

There is almost no point to having a TV with a tuner and anything other than \"channel 3\" anymore. :\\



Every area has a multitude of digital TV channels that arent on satellite and/or cable providers. PBS has 4 digital channels but only the primary is carried. NBC has Universal sports which isnt carried. my local ABC station has two additional digichannels, CBS has one additional, Fox has one additional, CW has one additional. All these need an antenna and you need an ATSC tuner to view them.

MY HDMI1 is a sufficient replacement for channel 3

[cameraman]

I've had Dish for about 15 years now. The drawback to the satellites is you need a very wide clear view of the southern sky. Trees are not your friend and nor is snow if the dish is located where you can't walk out to it in the middle of the night during a blizzard to sweep it off. I have a big old fashioned TV antenna that brings in all of the local stations, there are 34 of them, whereas DISH only provides the 5 standards ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX/PBS. Oddly enough I can get NBC's Universal Sports channel OTA but you can't get it on Dish. You can hook the antenna up to the Dish DVR and record the OTA shows too.

[dando]

Every area has a multitude of digital TV channels that arent on satellite and/or cable providers.

That depends on your provider. TWC here carries all of the multicast channels from the local affiliates, they are just located on different tiers than the primary channels. But quite frankly they aren't worth watching since they mainly consist of reruns from way back when.

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

DirecTV for 7 years here. No real issues aside from the occasional short outage others have mentioned.

My complaint is really limited to the price, which as a new subscriber you won't have to worry about until your 2 year contract is up. Ultimately, if you don't mind switching, you can get good rates between the satellite companies. DTV keeps me hooked with NFLST, so I mostly complain about pricing. :)

[Napoleon]

Doesn't matter. You'll need a box or cable card to unscramble the signal once the analog life support is pulled next Feb (unless they delay the switch again, which I don't think they can since the Feds sold the frequencies a few years ago).

Maybe I am just dense, but you really are not making any sense to me. I thought the converter boxes were when you had an old analog TV and needed something to convert digital single to analog. Both my TV and DVR were purchased after the conversion so, I assume, they have built into them the technology to "read" digital signals.

If the TV can work to get OTA signal (at least HD, are you saying that all other OTA signals it can not get even though the TV is less then 6 months old), which is where the frequencies were sold, why would you need a box for cable, where the signal is on a closed system, or dbs which, I assume, runs on its own assigned frequency.

[KLang]

A box is needed to decode (probably the wrong term) the signals from the satellite, your TV cannot do so by itself. The digital coming from the cable company also has to be decoded as well. Your TV knows what to do with OTA and analog from cable.

[SurfaceUnits]

your tv has to be able to accept a cablecard to avoid the cablebox

CableCARD is a special-use PCMCIA (PC) card that allows consumers in the United States to view and record digital cable television channels on digital video recorders, personal computers and televisions without the use of other equipment such as a set top box (STB) provided by a cable television company. The card may be provided by the local cable provider; usually for a nominal monthly fee. Another name for a CableCARD is an M-CARD on some cable boxes

Of course, if you were mexican, you wouldnt need to worry about digital tv because hispanic broadcasters and tv stations along the southern border of your country were exempted from the digital change over, presumedly because mexicans cant afford digital tv

[Insomniac]

Maybe I am just dense, but you really are not making any sense to me. I thought the converter boxes were when you had an old analog TV and needed something to convert digital single to analog. Both my TV and DVR were purchased after the conversion so, I assume, they have built into them the technology to "read" digital signals.

If the TV can work to get OTA signal (at least HD, are you saying that all other OTA signals it can not get even though the TV is less then 6 months old), which is where the frequencies were sold, why would you need a box for cable, where the signal is on a closed system, or dbs which, I assume, runs on its own assigned frequency.

I believe dando is talking about cable signals. Right now the cable companies have to send some stuff "in the clear". That's why you had "cable ready" sets that you could plug right into the coax and see the analog channels. At some point, all that will go digital and the cable companies will be allowed to encrypt it all and force you to obtain a cable card or set top box.

The OTA you mention will remain as is.

Edit: I reread the whole thread and now I'm not sure what he meant. The analog shutoff was in 2009 I think. I'll let him clarify. :)

[SurfaceUnits]

FCC to \"improve\" CableCARD rules this month

By Nate Anderson | Published about a year ago

The FCC\'s new National Broadband Plan made it clear that the agency has had it with CableCARD\'s failings and wants to try something else. Specifically, the FCC wants a new \"gateway\" device that would apply to all TV providers (cable, satellite, IPTV). Like a broadband modem, the gateway device would take its inputs from the different TV systems, but output a signal in a standard format that can be used by DVRs, TVs, and set-top boxes.

The changes start this month. The FCC has just announced plans for its April meeting, and they include these two juicy items:

•Network Gateway NOI: A Notice of Inquiry seeking comment on best approaches to assure the commercial availability of smart video devices and other equipment used to access the services of multi-channel video programming distributors.
•CableCARD NPRM: A Notice of Proposed Rulemaking that proposes changes to the CableCARD rules for set-top boxes used with cable services, to improve the operation of that framework pending the development of a successor framework.


The network gateway will get a \"notice of inquiry,\" which is just asking for public comment on how the agency should move forward. The CableCARD proceeding, though, gets a \"notice of proposed rulemaking\" and we\'ll get to see exactly what the FCC has in mind to patch the existing program.

CableCARD was an attempt by the FCC to create competition in the market for set-top boxes and DVRs by making it easy for third-party devices to access cable\'s video streams, even those that were encrypted. In this, it failed. We\'ve noted for years that almost no one used the devices and that nearly all CableCARDs actually ended up in cable\'s own set-top boxes instead of in competing third-party products.

[nrc]

I filed a long-winded comment during these proceedings which evidently didn't impress anyone at the FCC. The updated cableCard rules are done and they aren't going to do much to improve things in the interim. Hopefully the "Allvid" gateway will have better results.


CableCARD fees have to be the same for everyone, no matter which package you have.
If your cable company allows any self installs, they must allow CableCARD self-installs.
Cable companies must support SDV for CableCARD users -- this was implied before, now it is black and white.
By default, all new deployments must be M-Cards (unless you actually request a S-Card).
Cable companies can include an IP interface in set-top-boxes lieu of a 1394 port.
One way HD boxes without CableCARDs are no longer forbidden and they don't require IP interfaces.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/14/the-fcc-changes-the-cablecard-rules-but-not-dramatically/

Oh, and there's a specific place on the FCC site now to complain about cable card or SDV problems.

[dando]

I believe dando is talking about cable signals. Right now the cable companies have to send some stuff "in the clear". That's why you had "cable ready" sets that you could plug right into the coax and see the analog channels. At some point, all that will go digital and the cable companies will be allowed to encrypt it all and force you to obtain a cable card or set top box.

The OTA you mention will remain as is.

Edit: I reread the whole thread and now I'm not sure what he meant. The analog shutoff was in 2009 I think. I'll let him clarify. :)

Currently there are three tiers with TWC locally: analog (not requiring an STB...just plug in the coax and you are good to go), digital (requires an STB for the next tier) and HD (requires an STB with HD capablities). After 2/17/2012, some sort of converter or OTA antenna will be required to received cable, dbs or OTA TV signals. The FCC mandate for analog signal support by cable cos. ends next Feb. I can't make it any clearer...some sort of STB or HD tuner (TV integrated or external) will be required to receive a digital signal starting next Feb under the current rules/law. Analog goes bye-bye next Feb. TWC locally has already started shuffling channel lineups in preparation for this transition (which took Tivo several days to pick up the new channel listings :irked:). Can y'all comprehend that? :saywhat:

-Kevin

[TrueBrit]

I dumped Comcrap three months ago and went with Dish. I love them. I want to marry Dish and have their babies. Screw Comcrap. HD is sublime, plenty of channels, The Stig in HD is worth it alone, and the price is 1/3 of what was being extorted from me by Comcrap on a monthly basis. Yes that rate will eventually go up, but even at full price they are still 20% cheaper than Comcrap.

[racer2c]

My god. Do you people even watch tv? Weird. :)

Lil advice....Crack a cold one, Hit the little red button on the remote (that one turns your tv on), push the dog off of the couch (because you're a man!) tell your wife you heard every word she just said (cuz ya gotta stay on their good side in case you're not that tired later, *wink*) and crank up the volume to River Monsters (best tv show ever). :thumbup:

[cameraman]

My ****ing Dish Network DVR crashed during the GP2 race. Thankfully I woke up for the F1 race and was able to reboot the stupid thing in time to just barely catch the lights:shakehead

[TKGAngel]

Currently there are three tiers with TWC locally: analog (not requiring an STB...just plug in the coax and you are good to go), digital (requires an STB for the next tier) and HD (requires an STB with HD capablities). After 2/17/2012, some sort of converter or OTA antenna will be required to received cable, dbs or OTA TV signals. The FCC mandate for analog signal support by cable cos. ends next Feb. I can't make it any clearer...some sort of STB or HD tuner (TV integrated or external) will be required to receive a digital signal starting next Feb under the current rules/law. Analog goes bye-bye next Feb. TWC locally has already started shuffling channel lineups in preparation for this transition (which took Tivo several days to pick up the new channel listings :irked:). Can y'all comprehend that? :saywhat:

-Kevin

I just thought the lineup shuffles were due to TWC being greedy.

My choices in the city are either TWC or the two dish providers. TWC has exclusive rights in the City of Buffalo, so no Fios for me. I just like TWC because it's the only way I can watch all the Sabres games in HD. Fios/Direct/Dish do not carry the MSG HD channel that the Sabres appear on, and Dish doesn't carry MSG at all due to a carriage dispute. [/hockeyfan]

[WickerBill]

MSGHD -- DirecTV channel 634. I have it!

[gerhard911]

MSGHD -- DirecTV channel 634. I have it!

The DirecTV Sports Pack (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/sports/sports_pack?footernavtype=-1) does not indicate that 634 is HD. It does list 635 as MSG+HD is that what you are referring to ? Is it simply an HD mirror of 634 ?

[WickerBill]

The DirecTV Sports Pack (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/sports/sports_pack?footernavtype=-1) does not indicate that 634 is HD. It does list 635 as MSG+HD is that what you are referring to ? Is it simply an HD mirror of 634 ?

634 is MSGHD. 635 is MSG+HD. Not sure what the plus channel shows that the original doesn't.... but both have HD content in the guide.

[TKGAngel]

I should clarify. Yes, MSG HD is carried far and wide. However, the Sabres appear on a special MSG HD channel that is not carried by the other providers. The Sabres & TWC control this channel. If you get MSG and see a Sabres game in HD, it's not true HD. It's a SD gone stretchy.

And MSG+ is a second 2nd network that carries Devils/Islanders and other games that don't fit on the first channel due to conflicts with the Knicks & Rangers.

[High Sided]

over the years i've gone from charter cable to dish then direct and now with at&t/uverse since it came to town. direct has the best sports package and now offer a whole house dvr but i'm happy with uverse and its 4 channel recording ability with their whole house dvr. plus uverse costs less when bundled with my phone/internet.

[KLang]

Dish now has a whole house DVR on the way but it won't be out until the end of the year. Pretty neat from the sounds of it. Central unit has 3 sat tuners. A thin client goes at each TV. Need more tuners? Add another Central unit. Thin client can access any tuner or recording on the central units. USB Hard drive with archived recordings can be plugged into either the central or client machines and available for viewing throughout the network. I want... :)

[Insomniac]

Dish now has a whole house DVR on the way but it won't be out until the end of the year. Pretty neat from the sounds of it. Central unit has 3 sat tuners. A thin client goes at each TV. Need more tuners? Add another Central unit. Thin client can access any tuner or recording on the central units. USB Hard drive with archived recordings can be plugged into either the central or client machines and available for viewing throughout the network. I want... :)

Do you know if they will charge $5-6/mo for thin clients?

[KLang]

Do you know if they will charge $5-6/mo for thin clients?

No pricing announced yet.

They were showing off mock ups at a Dish dealer convention. XiP813 and XiP110 are the server and client models.

Dish doesn't have a great track record for new models working correctly at first. I mean the software in new models.

[WickerBill]

Dish is known for a lot of DVR bluster that doesn't ever seem to come true. I hope, for the sake of competition, this sees the light of day.

[KLang]

Maybe their software engineers will have an easier time now that they don't have to program around Tivo's patents.

[Napoleon]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/14/the-fcc-changes-the-cablecard-rules-but-not-dramatically/

I am planning to post a longer addressing some things in this thread, but need to finish looking through some of my equipment manuals which I was going to do that Sat but ended up with a spur of the moment hiring of a crew to take out a fallen tree from the storms of a week and a half ago.

At the link they mention one thing about the box they had that if the one they gave me had would have made a huge differance, which is passive pass through. The one they gave me appeared to have no method of bypassing it (other than, I assume, with seperate switching/splitting of cable lines).

[Napoleon]

Those little boxes that usher cable signals and digital recording capacity into televisions have become the single largest electricity drain in many American homes . . . (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/us/26cable.html?hp)

[RusH]

There is almost no point to having a TV with a tuner and anything other than "channel 3" anymore. :\

Dish fan, but I'll admit I've been sniffing around at AT&T cable a bit, just for the 'net speeds (I'm at 3 MBs down).

I have an antenna....I very much enjoy the 35 channels on my 51" plasma (some in HD) that I get for free.

[KLang]

Those little boxes that usher cable signals and digital recording capacity into televisions have become the single largest electricity drain in many American homes . . . (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/us/26cable.html?hp)

I've got four around the house :eek:

Dish DVR's do go into a standby mode after a bit. No idea how much juice they are still using but I think the hard drives do spin down.

I'm sure eventually the government will step in and save us. :\ I'm surprised California hasn't already.

[Insomniac]

I've got four around the house :eek:

Dish DVR's do go into a standby mode after a bit. No idea how much juice they are still using but I think the hard drives do spin down.

I'm sure eventually the government will step in and save us. :\ I'm surprised California hasn't already.

I'm surprised the manufacturer's haven't. Heat destroys the equipment, it's in their best interests to have a standby mode (let the user decide if their DVR needs to "record" live TV 24x7. They should be spinning down and keeping a scheduler in memory.

[cameraman]

It is annoying to hear the fans running on the stupid thing when the TV is off. This is one of those cases where a little regulation is the only way to get the job done. The manufacturers don't give a damn and we don't have any choice to get a different, more efficient box.

None of this stuff ever shuts down, the wireless network is up 24/7. AppleTVs are always hot to the touch, the receivers are always in standby, the computers rarely stay in deep sleep for long. This stuff should not be warm to the touch when they are just sitting there.:irked:

[KLang]

I'm surprised the manufacturer's haven't. Heat destroys the equipment, it's in their best interests to have a standby mode (let the user decide if their DVR needs to "record" live TV 24x7. They should be spinning down and keeping a scheduler in memory.

I think if it were cheap or easy they would have done it already. On standby my DVR's are still pumping out heat.

Probably the worst offender in my house is the 4 drive NAS.

[Insomniac]

It is annoying to hear the fans running on the stupid thing when the TV is off. This is one of those cases where a little regulation is the only way to get the job done. The manufacturers don't give a damn and we don't have any choice to get a different, more efficient box.

None of this stuff ever shuts down, the wireless network is up 24/7. AppleTVs are always hot to the touch, the receivers are always in standby, the computers rarely stay in deep sleep for long. This stuff should not be warm to the touch when they are just sitting there.:irked:

Alternatively, fund a photo-voltaic X-Prize of sorts to reach some level of power efficiency where people would generate enough power to the grid to offset what they consume.

On top of all the stuff you mentioned we have basically anything that has a standby mode, numerous chargers plugged in when not in use (I'm guilty of this), the blinding lights from cable/DSL modems. We want our power!

[Insomniac]

I think if it were cheap or easy they would have done it already. On standby my DVR's are still pumping out heat.

Probably the worst offender in my house is the 4 drive NAS.

I'd take a power saving feature over any number of features DirecTV added in 4 years. Hard drive spin down, events in memory to trigger spin up. Doesn't seem that hard to me.

[Lux Interior]

DirecTV here and it is great. We have the HD DVR and get Speed, Golf, Tennis, etc. :thumbup:

[nrc]

They're comparing a refrigerator that is more efficient than most of those sold today to set tops and DVRs that use more power than almost all that are being sold or deployed today.

Which is not to say that they couldn't be more efficient than they are. The problem is that consumers really have little choice in the matter. Even if there are more efficient boxes available they are (or at least feel) stuck with whatever the cable company provides.

The best way to solve this is to push forward existing plans to force open the cable and satellite monopoly on set top boxes with a single standard video gateway for the home. Then consumers can benefit from competition among consumer electronics manufacturers in the set top market on a variety of fronts, including energy efficiency.

[nrc]

DirecTV is running ads that say Sunday Ticket is now included for free. Of course what they actually mean is that they will throw it in for free for new subscribers and then auto-renew it at full price next year. Cable from the sky. :shakehead

[Insomniac]

DirecTV is running ads that say Sunday Ticket is now included for free. Of course what they actually mean is that they will throw it in for free for new subscribers and then auto-renew it at full price next year. Cable from the sky. :shakehead

NFLST (and maybe all sports packages) are always set to auto-renew. They generally give a further (small) discount to renewing customers (different from early bird discounts). The new customers can cancel the auto-renew at any time, and even if they forget and get charged, they will still have plenty of time before week 1 to cancel and get a full refund. They are not required to purchase NFLST in subsequent years.

(On a related note, for existing subscribers, there are discounts for NFLST in the system that you can try to get now that the lockout is over.)