DeltaWang II: Electric Boogaloo

[extramundane]

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=63bf80e2cad4e0c5f0014cd28&id=2c609244a1&e=408411f81c

I'm not sure whether to :rofl: or :cry: so I guess I'll just :gomer:.

[Trevor Longman]

I'm not sure whether to :rofl: or :cry: so I guess I'll just :gomer:.

Well isn't that what the :gomer: is for? :laugh:

[Elmo T]

I kept hoping Will Ferrell was going to pop out with a punch line - this being the latest Funny or Die video. But alas, no... :saywhat:

[opinionated ow]

It'll fall over at the first corner, just like a dragster

[Andrew Longman]

I feel bad for Highcroft that this is their only viable option.

I feel somewhat good for Gurney for extending his tradition of American race car innovation.

I still don't get the whole Delta wing concept. I don't want to be like those who were stuck on the Roadster concept and thought anything with a rear engine couldn't possibly be "a real" race car, but... :gomer:

I guess maybe this will be the wave of the future and Indy car missed the boat again.

Or not.

[Don Quixote]

I dunno, that car looks pretty OK to me, on looks alone. :thumbup: Flame away, comrades. :gomer:

[racer2c]

I dunno, that car looks pretty OK to me, on looks alone. :thumbup: Flame away, comrades. :gomer:

It looks ok to me for something other than a road racer, perhaps a dragster or a soap box derby car. I just don't see how the front end could ever produce the amount of grip needed to at least compare to other thoroughbred racers let alone exceed them.

With top end speed such a concern with modern racers, the need to keep corning speeds high is a must. I don't see how this 'thing' will pull that off.

[Rogue Leader]

It looks ok to me for something other than a road racer, perhaps a dragster or a soap box derby car. I just don't see how the front end could ever produce the amount of grip needed to at least compare to other thoroughbred racers let alone exceed them.

With top end speed such a concern with modern racers, the need to keep corning speeds high is a must. I don't see how this 'thing' will pull that off.

I agree, I mean I'm no physics major but that part of this design completely does not compute....

[NismoZ]

Nope. I'm IN! Hope and change!! Aren't you ready for a good ol' revolution? Still can't see how the dang thing will turn, though. Better not put the inside front tire on the curb or it'll be in the grass at the rear! Is it going to handle, or just be a new "point and squirt" racer like some of those first big/mid-engine pre-Can Am cars of the early '60s? I will look forward to seeing the thing make a successful debut. (If only because AAR is involved!)

[datachicane]

I'm concerned that it may have a 1/4 mile turning radius and can't escape the sneaking suspicion that it's nothing more than a marketing-driven gimmick without a basis in engineering, but the involvement of St. Dan of Gurney makes it difficult not to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[High Sided]

Dan Gurney “After looking at the project and the car’s technical aspects I was asked if we would like to build it. I didn’t hesitate for a moment. When I first discussed this car with Ben Bowlby I tried to shoot holes in what he was saying, but I quickly found I wasn’t able to. I believe the targets and predictions are valid.”
http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/2011/06/09/eagle-delta-wing-for-2012-le-mans/

[stroker]

Gawd, watch that thing do 250 on Mulsanne with ease and everybody slap their foreheads asking, "Why didn't we get this thing for Indy???"


:rofl:

[Gnam]

There are headlights on the rear tires. :laugh:

We are living in the dark ages of motorsport.

[miatanut]

With top end speed such a concern with modern racers, the need to keep corning speeds high is a must. I don't see how this 'thing' will pull that off.

Two tiny tires in the front of an 80,000 pound semi turn it. This is a similar concept. Almost all the weight/downforce is in the back, so you need the big tires in the back. The front has hardly any weight on it, so it doesn't need big tires to turn the front. The huge rear weight bias means they can accelerate better too.

I thought the concept sounded like it made sense, but Gurney really knows vehicle dynamics inside and out and if it makes sense to him, then it sounds like it really makes sense.

I'm looking forward to it and I think the idiots at Indy will kick themselves, but it was obvious they wouldn't pick the DW from the start. They are too entrenched in tradition for that.

[Elmo T]

I think I missed this the first time:


Two seat DeltaWing will focus on innovation to achieve ultra energy efficiency and 24 hour performance


Two Seat? (http://deltawingracing.com/)

Riding mechanic? Paying passenger? Just a design note??

[Al Czervik]

I think I missed this the first time:



Two Seat? (http://deltawingracing.com/)

Riding mechanic? Paying passenger? Just a design note??

All the LMP's are, technically, two seaters. Part of the spec.

[NismoZ]

Yeah, I remember Le Mans when they had to have 11"(H) windshields, two FULL seats, and carry a SUITCASE! (or at least have room for one.:D) No roll bar, though.:rolleyes:

[Easy]

I read a pretty in depth explanation of the narrow front track and wheels that eased my doubts on how it would work. It is about weight distribution but there is some more to how it works. Can't remember where I read it. Racecar Eng maybe?

[High Sided]

Bowlby says that with 23 degrees of steering lock in both directions, the long DeltaWing car will get around the Long Beach hairpin just fine. He added that in computer simulations, the radical car is 1.5 seconds a lap faster around Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course than a current Indy car -- using a 300-horsepower engine.

"We discovered that our traction is better, relatively speaking, than the current Indy car, because of the weight on the rear of the car," Bowlby explained, citing the DeltaWing's 28:72 weight distribution. "And our braking performance is actually better. It's extraordinary. It's unique in this racing car that we have more than 50 percent of the braking force coming from behind the center of gravity.

"That gives you a very stable condition on corner entry. You have much less propensity to lock an inside front wheel because there isn't a lot of load distribution occurring at the front of the car. Suddenly we have a car that is out-accelerating and out-braking the current Indy car."

http://espn.go.com/racing/blog/_/name/oreovicz_john/id/4928028

[racer2c]

Two tiny tires in the front of an 80,000 pound semi turn it. This is a similar concept. Almost all the weight/downforce is in the back, so you need the big tires in the back. The front has hardly any weight on it, so it doesn't need big tires to turn the front. The huge rear weight bias means they can accelerate better too.

I thought the concept sounded like it made sense, but Gurney really knows vehicle dynamics inside and out and if it makes sense to him, then it sounds like it really makes sense.

I'm looking forward to it and I think the idiots at Indy will kick themselves, but it was obvious they wouldn't pick the DW from the start. They are too entrenched in tradition for that.

You should write their marketing campaign. :These race cars are just like 80,000 pound semi's!".

:rofl::gomer:

[racer2c]

Bowlby says that with 23 degrees of steering lock in both directions, the long DeltaWing car will get around the Long Beach hairpin just fine. He added that in computer simulations, the radical car is 1.5 seconds a lap faster around Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course than a current Indy car -- using a 300-horsepower engine.

"We discovered that our traction is better, relatively speaking, than the current Indy car, because of the weight on the rear of the car," Bowlby explained, citing the DeltaWing's 28:72 weight distribution. "And our braking performance is actually better. It's extraordinary. It's unique in this racing car that we have more than 50 percent of the braking force coming from behind the center of gravity.

"That gives you a very stable condition on corner entry. You have much less propensity to lock an inside front wheel because there isn't a lot of load distribution occurring at the front of the car. Suddenly we have a car that is out-accelerating and out-braking the current Indy car."

http://espn.go.com/racing/blog/_/name/oreovicz_john/id/4928028

Right...because my guess is that any more than 300 horsepower this thing un-drivable.

Waiting for them to prove me wrong. Socks on.;)

[miatanut]

Have you ever seen a Pooper (Porsche Cooper) race:

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970705&slug=2547962
http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/1-cooper-pooper-300x200.jpg

There are a couple of them around the country and it is just astounding how fast they eat up the bigger cars in anything twisty. This car is the same concept and it will be in its ultimate challenge at LeMans. A relatively straight course aimed at straight line speed, which requires horsepower. Any place they run it after that will be more competitive.

[racer2c]

Have you ever seen a Pooper (Porsche Cooper) race:

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970705&slug=2547962
http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/1-cooper-pooper-300x200.jpg

There are a couple of them around the country and it is just astounding how fast they eat up the bigger cars in anything twisty. This car is the same concept and it will be in its ultimate challenge at LeMans. A relatively straight course aimed at straight line speed, which requires horsepower. Any place they run it after that will be more competitive.

You mean the race cars that set the racing community on it's ear? The cars that were a paradigm shift in race car engineering? The cars that ushered in a new era for decades to come? Uh...no. :rofl:

[miatanut]

That would be this one:
http://www.draglist.com/artman2/uploads/1/cooper.jpg.

Same company. Same concept. A fraction of the size and weight of the competition, and a lot faster.

[racer2c]

That would be this one:
http://www.draglist.com/artman2/uploads/1/cooper.jpg.

Same company. Same concept. A fraction of the size and weight of the competition, and a lot faster.

Yeah. That looks exactly like a Delta Wing! Are you on drugs? No, really?

From 18 wheelers to poppers. What's next, riding lawn mowers? :rofl:

Hey, seriously, I'll be as eggsited as everyone when the 'wang' takes to the track. ;)

[G.]

I think the delta wang would have done a lot more to clear the split-slate than aero kits.

Question is, would we be unified in love of the wang or unified in hate? :\

[cameraman]

Probably would depend on whether or not the silly thing actually functions. Some one please assure me that they will test that thing before they roll it out at Le Mans:shakehead

[Indy]

I would have dropped the hate immediately if they had adopted the Delta Wing. I think it will be a game changer, and I am really looking forward to seeing it on track.

Plus Gurney is for it. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[Fio1]

I can't imagine this thing going around corners really well. I believe massive understeer will be the order of the day.....But then again, the end product may not look like that and besides what the heck do I know about anything? :shakehead

[extramundane]

What's next, riding lawn mowers? :rofl:

JkzMLOcROxo

Dirt tracks + injuns in front. Thems real 'mercuns too. :gomer:

[opinionated ow]

JkzMLOcROxo

Dirt tracks + injuns in front. Thems real 'mercuns too. :gomer:

There's even a 12 hour race on the Le Mans weekend

[racer2c]

I can't imagine this thing going around corners really well. I believe massive understeer will be the order of the day.....But then again, the end product may not look like that and besides what the heck do I know about anything? :shakehead

I'm in the same boat. Just a fan with an opinion. IF (and that's a big IF) the wang ever turns a lap...watch that front end grow wider with each revision. I can see a spec series of wangs where the innovation comes from finding grip within a design that opposes conventional i.e.proven methods, but allowed to race alongside existing racers...I can't foresee the wang being competitive.
Grip comes from many factors but low center of gravity with the contact patches pushed to the extremities.
The wang is being promoted just for the sake of something aesthetically different in order to generate fan interest in a stagnating genre. Not because it's ushering in a new era of awe inspiring performance, safety and efficiency.
Designers could do a lot with a conventional chassis in order to create an aesthetically pleasing and aerodynamically efficient car without resorting to design gimmicks.
Why stop with the wang? How about a reverse wang with 3 wheels and turbine engine? How about 2 main wheels front and back with out riggers like a Hawaiian conoe, powered by a sail?

[Elmo T]

Question is, would we be unified in love of the wang or unified in hate? :\

I am surprised by the amount of wang love here - not that there is anything wrong with that. ;)

[NismoZ]

Absolutely, m'nut...Saw a Pooper at Wilmot Hills in '59. Was impressed as much by the name (hey, I was a VERY young fan;)) as I was by it's performance. George Reed in a 250TR made the biggest impression on me with it's music-to-the-ears V-12 exhaust note but that little Pooper was right THERE at the hairpin and the esses. Reed won, but the revolution was certainly underway. Elva/Porsche picked up where Cooper, and the Porsche RSKs/RS60s, left off and became the true "giant killers" in early '60s road racing, especially the MkVII. Saw Bill Wuesthoff, Joe Buzetta, Charlie Hayes, Chuck Dietrich...Carl Haas!:) race those things and I think Augie Pabst won the Road America 500 two years in a row in MkVIIs. (edit: Augie's '63 win was with Wuesthoff in a MkVII ...AND he finished 8th in a GTO with Roger Penske! He won the next year in a 250LM with Walt Hansgen.)... (had to leave the Meister Brausers because of his name!:D)...ANYway, maybe we ARE on the cusp of something big here. At least keep an eye on your socks.:)

[racer2c]

I am surprised by the amount of wang love here - not that there is anything wrong with that. ;)

People desperate for change + Dan Gurney = Wang Fest '11. :D

[Don Quixote]

I am going to make all you haters eat crow when this thing hits the track. I am McLovin it!!! :D

[miatanut]

Yeah. That looks exactly like a Delta Wing! Are you on drugs? No, really?

From 18 wheelers to poppers. What's next, riding lawn mowers? :rofl:

Hey, seriously, I'll be as eggsited as everyone when the 'wang' takes to the track. ;)
If the pioneering design now was identical to the pioneering design 50 years ago, it wouldn't be pioneering, would it?


Absolutely, m'nut...Saw a Pooper at Wilmot Hills in '59. Was impressed as much by the name (hey, I was a VERY young fan;)) as I was by it's performance. George Reed in a 250TR made the biggest impression on me with it's music-to-the-ears V-12 exhaust note but that little Pooper was right THERE at the hairpin and the esses. Reed won, but the revolution was certainly underway. Elva/Porsche picked up where Cooper, and the Porsche RSKs/RS60s, left off and became the true "giant killers" in early '60s road racing, especially the MkVII. Saw Bill Wuesthoff, Joe Buzetta, Charlie Hayes, Chuck Dietrich...Carl Haas!:) race those things and I think Augie Pabst won the Road America 500 two years in a row in MkVIIs. (edit: Augie's '63 win was with Wuesthoff in a MkVII after the GTO he was sharing with Penske failed. He won the next year in a 250LM with Walt Hansgen.)... (had to leave the Meister Brausers because of his name!:D)...ANYway, maybe we ARE on the cusp of something big here. At least keep an eye on your socks.:)
I've only seen them kicking butt on the vintage circuit. Bruce McCaw has a TR he races around here, and it does sound and look beautiful
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy231/miatanut/DSC_1646.jpg?t=1255496799
but I'm partial to the small & light concept.

[Michaelhatesfans]

I was a hater when the car was going to be mandatory, but if they want to go off and compete with real cars, more power to them. And like many of you, I'd love to have a good viewing spot at T1 on it's first hot lap.:cool:

[racer2c]

I was a hater when the car was going to be mandatory, but if they want to go off and compete with real cars, more power to them. And like many of you, I'd love to have a good viewing spot at T1 on it's first hot lap.:cool:

Yep. Nothing wrong with that. Varied competition is what its all about. It will be cool to see something new and radical take to the track. :thumbup:

[Elmo T]

Dan Gurney or not - I am still not convinced. That said, I do get development advances and I'll be looking forward to some test video.

The Wang (finally not the Weiner) on Fox News:

Oa38TbgteSk

[G.]

People desperate for change + Dan Gurney = Wang Fest '11. :D

I learned long ago not to get caught up into hero worship. The Split certainly reinforced that. On all sides.

[Gnam]

I look forward to the electric powered version of the DeltaWing silently swishing through the sweeping Porsche Curves at Le Mans, or sliding through the tight confines of the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca, or blasting through the hilly folds of Road Atlanta, or forcing itself over the bumps of Sebring while proudly wearing a shiny new Rocketsports livery.

For only then will the sport of Motorsport have truly reached its climax.
The anticipation is excruciating. :D

[Elmo T]

I look forward to the electric powered version of the DeltaWing silently swishing through the sweeping Porsche Curves at Le Mans, or sliding through the tight confines of the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca, or blasting through the hilly folds of Road Atlanta, or forcing itself over the bumps of Sebring while proudly wearing a shiny new Rocketsports livery.


Too bad you won't get to see it penetrate the tunnel in Monaco.

[racer2c]

I learned long ago not to get caught up into hero worship. The Split certainly reinforced that. On all sides.

Not to sidetrack from an otherwise captivating thread (:gomer:), but I'll never forget the small yet dedicated group of paddock lizards that would stand for the entire race weekend, planted at the ropes of AAR's CART team waiting for a glimpse of the man. Most of them adorned with the obligatory 'Gurney for President' buttons. If there was ever a gomer equivalent (the cable installer, Foyt worshipers types) for CART fans, it was the Gurney heads. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I once stood in line to get a stupid Helio signature. :gomer:

[Michaelhatesfans]

I look forward to the electric powered version of the DeltaWing silently swishing through the sweeping Porsche Curves at Le Mans, or sliding through the tight confines of the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca, or blasting through the hilly folds of Road Atlanta, or forcing itself over the bumps of Sebring while proudly wearing a shiny new Rocketsports livery.

For only then will the sport of Motorsport have truly reached its climax.
The anticipation is excruciating. :D
%
Yeah, I could make a day of that...(is there a trenchcoat smilie?)

[NismoZ]

'nut...Yes, small, mid-engine and light was beginning to carry the day by '57-'60 but when it became "a little bigger, mid-engine, a little heavier and A LOT more powerful" by '63 the (r)evolution was in full swing. In '63 I saw Penske in his Birdcage Maserati at Meadowdale beat Peter Ryan in the Comstock Sadler (one of the early big mid-engine cars leading the revolt) but only after Ryan slid off track while leading less than a mile from the finish! The handwriting was certainly on the wall. Earlier that same year at the RA June Sprints I got to see Penske be the 1st ever to turn a lap in under 2:30 with his DuPont Zerex Special, an envelope body single seat F-I Cooper Climax...that was soon banned by the SCCA. Didn't meet the "sporting regulations." Fenders do not a sports car make!:D

[extramundane]

3j6vS4vRCG0

Those mirrors will nev...ah, forget it.

:gomer:

[Gnam]

Diecast Available NOW!



http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1334/deltawing.png

:p

[NismoZ]

Full rains?

[Gnam]

Full muds. The Deltawing is not stopable.