Never overestimate the IRL. :)

[racer2c]

Turbo (check), hand clutch (check), carbon brakes (check). ugly ass car (check).

[Wheel-Nut]

That's unbelievable!

:eek: :shakehead :laugh: :yuck:

[chop456]

:laugh::rofl::laugh:

[Dvdb]

Needs more rear wing

[Gnam]

Needs more baseball bat. :p

I feel a strange compulsion to stomp down on that sidepod shelf and snap it off.

[Michaelhatesfans]

:rofl::eek::rofl:

[TravelGal]

Or stomp down on the whole thing. It looks waaay too much like a bug.

[Michaelhatesfans]

Oh, man... They've got some f'ng nerve, don't they? I mean, holy ****!!!!

[Don Quixote]

This is serious?????

[Wheel-Nut]

This is serious?????

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pressdog/sets/72157627591166881/

[G.]

Looks racy.

[DagoFast]

I guess that answers the question "what would the welfare offspring of an '82 Eagle look like if it just sat at home playing video games, eating junk food and and smoking crack all day?"

[NismoZ]

Those nerf/nerd bars will never work, too low. Probably launch side impacts right up into the drivers face!

[Gnam]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pressdog/6166858101/in/set-72157627591166881/

That's quite a picture.

A driver without a ride presenting a car without customers in front grandstands without fans.

[BarillaGirl]

Turbo (check), hand clutch (check), carbon brakes (check). ugly ass car (check).

Those sidepods look inflated in Photo 2. What is this, the 2012 Izod Air? :saywhat:

:yuck::yuck::yuck: and an extra :yuck: from Peter.

[SteveH]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0912/permanent-facepalm-facepalm-fail-pigeon-demotivational-poster-1260284257.jpg

[nissan gtp]

those mirrors will never work

[Michaelhatesfans]

:laugh:

[cameraman]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pressdog/6166858101/in/set-72157627591166881/

That's quite a picture.

A driver without a ride presenting a car without customers in front grandstands without fans.

You need to keep up. Now he has Tagliani's ride so he can practice for Vegas. Tag's services are no longer required it seems. It is the same car that Tag put on the pole for the 500.

[Indy]

Holy Jeebus it's ugly.

It's got the airbox, the barn door wings, the ultropointy nose, the ridiculous sidepods, so, yup, it's a crapwagon. Plus it has an ass that says "I love tenderloins!" :gomer:

[Anteater]

My eyes! My eyes!!!!!!! :eek:

And to think they could have chosen the Swift chassis. But this is much more fitting, really--a stupid car for a stupid series.

[opinionated ow]

What a truly cack effort!

[RTKar]

If they can get flames and/or colored smoke to come out the back, they'll have a winner. Maybe flames when they use push to pass and colored smoke for a Days of Thunder effect. What a car, so awesome. When and where can I buy tickets?

I can't wait for Milwaukee and Road America.......












Oh wait.......

[datachicane]

This would be an improvement:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0ro6Dgn3BuE/ToEZPxLPq2I/AAAAAAAAD8c/pmbBkFOGOdY/s800/Drak-2004-03-28-004%25255B1%25255D.jpg

[racermike]

Makes me miss this car even more ...............

http://i49.tinypic.com/10x4v86.jpg

[trish]

I clicked on the link and look at several of the photos. I kind of like it. Sorry. :o

[dirtyboy]

Those lunchbox holders behind the rear wheels will be getting knocked off every race. At least those world-class-divers can have a sandwich and carrot sticks while they wait for the safety team.

[Trevor Longman]

Those lunchbox holders behind the rear wheels will be getting knocked off every race. At least those world-class-divers can have a sandwich and carrot sticks while they wait for the safety team.

Given how long it takes them to get there they should pack a survival kit. :laugh:

[G.]

Given how long it takes them to feet there they should pack a survival kit. :laugh:

I'd pack a fire extinguisher. :\

[emjaya]

I'd pack a fire extinguisher. :\

Back brace.

[dando]

Yo, y'all are missing the forest for the trees...what's the air time for this sucker? :tony: :saywhat: :shakehead

-Kevin

[racer2c]

Yo, y'all are missing the forest for the trees...what's the air time for this sucker? :tony: :saywhat: :shakehead

-Kevin

Good point./ Maybe those pods on the back are actually afterburners!!!:D

[TrueBrit]

It looks like the end result of what the current crap wagon and an ALMS prototype would look like if they went through those transmogrifier-thingies in 'The Fly'...

Other than the fact that it is without doubt one of the ugliest cars I have ever seen, what's with the airbox...i thought they were going back to turbos next year???

[Wheel-Nut]

http://www.tenfirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/back-to-the-future-delorean.jpg

[chop456]

Other than the fact that it is without doubt one of the ugliest cars I have ever seen, what's with the airbox...i thought they were going back to turbos next year???


Q) Why does/doesn't the IRL _____________?

A) Because they're morons.

[Wheel-Nut]

There are some videos of it running the road course at IMS on youtube.

[Trevor Longman]

yFIUnUDoYUk

[G.]

It looks like the end result of what the current crap wagon and an ALMS prototype would look like if they went through those transmogrifier-thingies in 'The Fly'...


BrundleCrap

[nrc]

Wow. Just wow. It looks like this thing was designed by a full committee of morons. Wow.

[JoeBob]

It looks like part of the Hot Wheels deal was that they got to design the new car.

[Indy]

The more I see, the worse it gets. It actually sounds and looks slower than the current crapwagon.

Seriously, it is inconceivable that any sane person could have chosen this design. I can only conclude it has to be :tony: pulling the strings behind the scenes.

[racer2c]

The waste gate 'pops' are back though. Makes me miss the ol' 2.65's. :(

[Andrew Longman]

It doesn't whine, it moans.

Revs too low or something. Doesn't shout, "I'm friggin scary fast. Pay attention!"

[Kiwifan]

It doesn't whine, it moans.

Revs too low or something. Doesn't shout, "I'm friggin scary fast. Pay attention!"

That Sir, summed up CART/Champ Car to a T well done Andrew. :) :)

[Corner5]

What a contrast in sleek design to improve speed and agility compared to the
Deltawing.

One by an expert, one by a bunch of dopes.

Good luck with that.

[High Sided]

OiehThwrdTQ

[stroker]

remember back 'round 1975 when Graham Hill had his own F1 team and they had those absolutely enormous airboxes on them? Somebody needs to 'shop one of those onto that thing...

[zr750]

I thought these new motors were supposed to spin up to 13k? It doesn't even sound like the motor is turning as fast at the current NA V8's do. There is no hope for this series.

[High Sided]

only doing 180mph, supposedly tomorrow they'll be pushing it.

[SteveH]

hapless

[Chief]

remember back 'round 1975 when Graham Hill had his own F1 team and they had those absolutely enormous airboxes on them? Somebody needs to 'shop one of those onto that thing...
http://f1lists.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/ligierjs5-2.jpg:rofl:

[Chief]

http://www.formula1latest.com/wp-content/Lola02.jpg

[stroker]

http://f1lists.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/ligierjs5-2.jpg:rofl:

It's FRENCH, what did you expect?

[High Sided]

weldon and cotman discuss testing...

6cCvom-QRiY

[Indy]

I begin to type something constructive, then I remember that there is no point. WGAF

[Indy]

http://f1lists.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/ligierjs5-2.jpg:rofl:

But THAT is freaking sweet. In an era that was quite bizarre, it was appropriate for the cars to be as well. And they were, after all, designed to function, not to form. Nothing faked up for the "fans." Just racers racing.

[Racing Truth]

What a contrast in sleek design to improve speed and agility compared to the
Deltawing.

One by an expert, one by a bunch of dopes.

Good luck with that.

Ahh, I guess if you live long enough..., you'll find someone non-ironically calling the DW sleek and agile.:rofl: But this is a good pivot for my thoughts on the car.

It's, in essence, one half "Grand Prix" (in the generic sense) car and one half DW. I have no aesthetic objection to the front half of it. I still wonder if that nose profile might not still be too tippy, but we'll see.

You know, I still don't get the point of the fauxbox, but I'm getting used to it, and it's world's better than the current airbox.

The issues are at the back end. It just looks fat/too wide, esp. at the very back. I get the point, to avoid car-on-car launches, but can it be done in a sleeker way? And I don't like the sidepods, but I'm adjusting to them. Look, the back end is a lot like, yes, an Audi R15, but also the rear of the DW.

I, too, wanted the Swift (I loved #32), but outside of that, I get why they rejected everything else. The Lola design was great... in 1996. BAT? No thanks. DW? Child please.

To an extent, I get the fact that just creating, aesthetically, an updated '95 Reynard is pointless and does nothing for the sport. And I like some elements of this car (I think it looks pretty good in speedway trim), but I just wish that back was... different.

[stroker]

But THAT is freaking sweet. In an era that was quite bizarre, it was appropriate for the cars to be as well. And they were, after all, designed to function, not to form. Nothing faked up for the "fans." Just racers racing.

And that Matra V-12 singing its aria...

[racer2c]

But THAT is freaking sweet. In an era that was quite bizarre, it was appropriate for the cars to be as well. And they were, after all, designed to function, not to form. Nothing faked up for the "fans." Just racers racing.

:thumbup:

[SurfaceUnits]

Ahh, I guess if you live long enough..., you'll find someone non-ironically calling the DW sleek and agile.:rofl: But this is a good pivot for my thoughts on the car.

It's, in essence, one half "Grand Prix" (in the generic sense) car and one half DW. I have no aesthetic objection to the front half of it. I still wonder if that nose profile might not still be too tippy, but we'll see.

You know, I still don't get the point of the fauxbox, but I'm getting used to it, and it's world's better than the current airbox.

The issues are at the back end. It just looks fat/too wide, esp. at the very back. I get the point, to avoid car-on-car launches, but can it be done in a sleeker way? And I don't like the sidepods, but I'm adjusting to them. Look, the back end is a lot like, yes, an Audi R15, but also the rear of the DW.

I, too, wanted the Swift (I loved #32), but outside of that, I get why they rejected everything else. The Lola design was great... in 1996. BAT? No thanks. DW? Child please.

To an extent, I get the fact that just creating, aesthetically, an updated '95 Reynard is pointless and does nothing for the sport. And I like some elements of this car (I think it looks pretty good in speedway trim), but I just wish that back was... different.

not enough ,,,,,,,,,,, in that post

[Racing Truth]

not enough ,,,,,,,,,,, in that post

Kinda surprised it took this long for a response. Far less surprising is the origin and quality of the response, but oh well.

Yes, I have good AND bad to say about the new car. The back end is not to my liking, period. Frankly, it's kind of fugly. But I've put up with 8 effing years of a Dallara with a d@mn hump in the nose! I'll live with a rear end with "too much junk in the trunk." And, while it looks lousy, we know it does have a purpose- ask Mike Conway. Will it work? No clue, but it's not there just to be fugly.

Which brings me back to the title of this thread: it's inaccurate. Pop quiz: Which series official is most responsible for the design and development of the new car? No, not TGBB; Randy very wisely sidelined him for that. No, the right answer is... RMiller's man-crush Tony Cotman. Cotman's background was? Yep, Champ Car.

If you think this car is a turd, a) I get it, but b) blaming "the IRL" isn't the way to go. More accurate title: Never overestimate the geniuses of OW racing. B/c this is NOT a product of IRL stalwarts.

I have to say, other than back views, I'm starting to like this thing more and more. In terms of speed, it's not being pushed at all. Once the engine mftrs. test it on their own, I think you'll see much faster speeds (+20mph at IMS, at least) and better sounding turbos. Far from perfect, but better than the current for sure.

7jrl6-oZJeI

Clearly not being pushed yet (reached 210-11) but already sounding better.

[Gnam]

It's great to finally hear the truth!
Things are getting better all the time!
Onward! and Upward!

Forget the past! Now's the time to eat your gruel and like it!
Why won't you like it? WHY?

7wKV87AzkHA

AOwoj9yp1SM

DCYz_uVI_KM

Oh yeah. That's why.
:gomer:

[Chief]

Which brings me back to the title of this thread: it's inaccurate. Pop quiz: Which series official is most responsible for the design and development of the new car? No, not TGBB; Randy very wisely sidelined him for that. No, the right answer is... RMiller's man-crush Tony Cotman. Cotman's background was? Yep, Champ Car.

If you think this car is a turd, a) I get it, but b) blaming "the IRL" isn't the way to go. More accurate title: Never overestimate the geniuses of OW racing. B/c this is NOT a product of IRL stalwarts.
Forgive me but, The IRL decided to start the IRL to avenge CART circa 1979. They wholly own the sport now.

They decided it was best to hire a coWboy, keep FTG in charge until forced out, and form a committee of outsiders to decide the future of the sport.

I contend you may want to re-think your above statement. The IRL tore it down and they are trying to rebuild it (cover their destructive tracks). I think the car sucks....primarily because of the moronic futuristic body kit they ALL are stuck with. Good lord, a Novi, Wasp or Coyote bodykit would have been better...

So, blame sits squarely where it is. Overestimate in tact.

[Trevor Longman]

All those champ car videos sound infinitely better than the current crapwagon and about 1000x better than crapwagon 2.0 but this is the best sounding engine I've ever heard. Turn it up!

M1InrgZiv30

[nrc]

If you think this car is a turd, a) I get it, but b) blaming "the IRL" isn't the way to go. More accurate title: Never overestimate the geniuses of OW racing. B/c this is NOT a product of IRL stalwarts.


As I recall Cottman was director of competition or some such thing when Champ Car did it's final clean sheet design and it didn't come out looking like this new crapwagon.

This is a perfect reflection of the whole "close in the wheels so we can race like NASCAR" thinking that USAC tried with their Silver Crown overhaul. It's classic gomerism no matter who came up with it.

[Napoleon]

classic gomerism

I would argue neoclassic gomerism.

[Winston Wolfe]

Hearing the old CART V-8 turbos literally makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up, even on the computer speakers. (Thanx for posting them :thumbup: )

Nothing is going to bring them back, the new engine will be "de-tuned" for reliability, not for outright speed.
There was a committee that decided on the look, and specs for the new car, and while they went with "safety" and "racy" as part of their design, its pretty clear they mixed in a little "futuristic" as well, which came out looking like an open wheel bat mobile, and a few strokes of the ugly stick for good measure :yuck:
once again, there is no "competition" its still a spec series, with too many mandates and we'll all try and watch it for a while, but it'll never be the same as it was, or as good as it could be, and we'll all wish it was better.
ahhh, the good old days...
Makes me sad my 11 year old wont get to hear that rush of air as they head down Shoreline, downshifting for T1, or hear them approach the Corkscrew and accelerate away, or even flat out at Fontucky, doing 240 into turn 3.
Good old days, indeed...:cry:

[Indy]

Forgive me but, The IRL decided to start the IRL to avenge CART circa 1979. They wholly own the sport now.

They decided it was best to hire a coWboy, keep FTG in charge until forced out, and form a committee of outsiders to decide the future of the sport.

I contend you may want to re-think your above statement. The IRL tore it down and they are trying to rebuild it (cover their destructive tracks). I think the car sucks....primarily because of the moronic futuristic body kit they ALL are stuck with. Good lord, a Novi, Wasp or Coyote bodykit would have been better...

So, blame sits squarely where it is. Overestimate in tact.

:thumbup:

[Michaelhatesfans]

But I've put up with 8 effing years of a Dallara with a d@mn hump in the nose!

I haven't put up with one second of it. Serves you right for watching.

There is no excuse - NOT ONE - for a spec car to be ugly.

[Michaelhatesfans]

This is a perfect reflection of the whole "close in the wheels so we can race like NASCAR" thinking...

Exactly. If they would just drive properly, respect each other, and stop trying to re-create a restrictor plate race, they wouldn't have to worry so much about wheel to wheel contact.

The new car is like everything else in the series - contrived.

[Duroc]

This is a perfect reflection of the whole "close in the wheels so we can race like NASCAR" thinking that USAC tried with their Silver Crown overhaul. It's classic gomerism no matter who came up with it.

The side and air pod come from the notion that more advertising space on the car will solve their sponsor issues vis-a-vis NASCAR. It's bunk. The core product is dead.

I spent a decade closing out various failed enterprises. This sort of make work project is pretty typical. It keeps folks from fixating on the inevitable (and spraying the office with an AK) and continuing with their day-to-day tasks.

[Racing Truth]

As I recall Cottman was director of competition or some such thing when Champ Car did it's final clean sheet design and it didn't come out looking like this new crapwagon.

This is a perfect reflection of the whole "close in the wheels so we can race like NASCAR" thinking that USAC tried with their Silver Crown overhaul. It's classic gomerism no matter who came up with it.

First, I need to correct myself. Heard Cotman say that he disliked the sidepods on the thing himself, but that was Dallara was responsible for them (they seem to like the drag numbers). The mistake made by ICS was capitulating to the owners on aero kits, as different kits might dump the sidepods for sleeker ones. Now, we have to wait until at least 2013.

Second, on the bumper, I think (hope?) that the new car will be much less "still there, still there", but even if it is, the case for the bumper remains. Indycars on speedways can interlock in the natural course, not just "NASCAR-like" racing (again, see Mike Conway), of a superspeedway race (increasingly limited, it appears). Is the bumper the answer? I kinda hope not, honestly, but I don't think it's an effort to emulate NASCAR

When the committee unveiled the thing, it was a pretty blank slate. The ridiculous holograms:shakehead looked nothing like the end product. It was Dallara and TC who gave us this, not "gomerism" or the "IRL."

That said, IFFF this came to fruition, (http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?155976-248.548476894934-Mph-or-400Kmh-at-Indianapolis), I wouldn't care who created it. Big "if," of course.

[Racing Truth]

Exactly. If they would just drive properly, respect each other, and stop trying to re-create a restrictor plate race, they wouldn't have to worry so much about wheel to wheel contact.

The new car is like everything else in the series - contrived.

So, your answer is, "If we teach them to drive better/they were better to begin with, they wouldn't risk touching?"

FAIL. For one, even good drivers make mistakes occasionally. Two, you'll never get a full field of good, smart drivers, even under much better circumstances than now. Three, you know what, stuff happens at 230 (+?) mph in the heat of the moment (Indianapolis 1989 comes to mind) no matter how gentlemanly the drivers are. You can't, even if you should (you shouldn't) ban racing too "close" for your liking.

[Indy]

So, your answer is, "If we teach them to drive better/they were better to begin with, they wouldn't risk touching?"

FAIL. For one, even good drivers make mistakes occasionally. Two, you'll never get a full field of good, smart drivers, even under much better circumstances than now. Three, you know what, stuff happens at 230 (+?) mph in the heat of the moment (Indianapolis 1989 comes to mind) no matter how gentlemanly the drivers are. You can't, even if you should (you shouldn't) ban racing too "close" for your liking.

The problem is the side-by-side ******** of the IRL era. It's about as exciting as paint drying, unless you are a brain-damaged moron who likes to see pretty things go fast, or unless you are one of those sociopathic voyeurs who watch the Kenny Brack tape 800 times to see if you can see his pulverized feet.

It's stupid, retarded, slack-jawed, pathetic, morbid, sick psuedo-racing. And that's what the new car is designed for. Enjoy.

[Michaelhatesfans]

So, your answer is, "If we teach them to drive better/they were better to begin with, they wouldn't risk touching?"

FAIL. For one, even good drivers make mistakes occasionally. Two, you'll never get a full field of good, smart drivers, even under much better circumstances than now. Three, you know what, stuff happens at 230 (+?) mph in the heat of the moment (Indianapolis 1989 comes to mind) no matter how gentlemanly the drivers are. You can't, even if you should (you shouldn't) ban racing too "close" for your liking.

Teach them? No, screw that, they should know better by now. If they're taking stupid chances or demostrating that they are clearly in over their heads, park them. Screw the car count.

Of course there are going to be mistakes, and there are going to be sudden mechanical failures, as well. Big, nasty, catostrophic ones. But sooner or later someone needs to decide if it's an open wheel series or not. If you keep boxing in the tires to keep them from coming into contact with each other, all you've really done is create another form of fender. It's not open wheel anymore.

Anyway, you take away the asinine staged pack racing and you won't need to worry about cars touching quite as much, that was my point. Ban close racing? Not what I said. But if close racing means trying to emulate a NASCAR restrictor plate race, that's not my idea of entertainment.

[Ziggy]

Well, he's racing truth, and he's gonna win us back one by one.

give it a rest buddy. Ain't no Earl Fans here

They Suck, go play with the other tards

[Wally]

The problem is the side-by-side ******** of the IRL era. It's about as exciting as paint drying, unless you are a brain-damaged moron who likes to see pretty things go fast, or unless you are one of those sociopathic voyeurs who watch the Kenny Brack tape 800 times to see if you can see his pulverized feet.

It's stupid, retarded, slack-jawed, pathetic, morbid, sick psuedo-racing. And that's what the new car is designed for. Enjoy.

WOW,that was right in the smoke stack :thumbup:

[Hard Driver]

The new car is like everything else in the series - contrived.

Yea, what's next, slots in the rear wing that open to reduce drag when you are within a second of the car in front. Or maybe a little electric motor that you can push a button to get a 30hp boost once a lap.

Personally, I think the new car is a better car than the old crapwagon. It was designed to work on road courses as well. It has a turbo.

Sure the tray stickout out from the side looks stupid and the rear end looks too big. But those are things that hopefully some improvements can be made when the body kits are allowed in '13.

[Chief]

Sure the tray stickout out from the side looks stupid and the rear end looks too big. But those are things that hopefully some improvements can be made when the body kits are allowed in '13.
Sure, and maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt...

Why is everything half-assed right out of the box? THEY had every opportunity to make this right, seize the opportunity to make this the launching point for the rebirth of the sport, BUT they are mired in a wait for someone to design a bodykit? The new cars are not really lighter, smaller, or exciting in design. Why bother? Isn't it really just an exercise in futility?

Remember 2008...in 2013 that will make 5 years since the end of the split. The *nimble* Hulman family will have squandered EVERYTHING in those 5 years. I barely have the courage mock anymore as this farce doesn't deserve my serious attention. In 2013, Versus will still be locked in for 5 MORE years, ABC may still do 5 races...who knows.

Lesson learned from DP-01? A car can't save a depressing and pathetic series, no matter how much money you throw at it. And 2012 looks to be carbon copy. IMHO...0.1 and 15K attendance can't buy you love anyway you slice it.

[Chief]

Just watched Bathhurst 1000....great race. If the morons at 16th and Jonestown saw this....why can we get back to this? WHY? Because you are morons....:flame:

[racer2c]

Sure, and maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt...

Why is everything half-assed right out of the box? THEY had every opportunity to make this right, seize the opportunity to make this the launching point for the rebirth of the sport, BUT they are mired in a wait for someone to design a bodykit? The new cars are not really lighter, smaller, or exciting in design. Why bother? Isn't it really just an exercise in futility?

Remember 2008...in 2013 that will make 5 years since the end of the split. The *nimble* Hulman family will have squandered EVERYTHING in those 5 years. I barely have the courage mock anymore as this farce doesn't deserve my serious attention. In 2013, Versus will still be locked in for 5 MORE years, ABC may still do 5 races...who knows.

Lesson learned from DP-01? A car can't save a depressing and pathetic series, no matter how much money you throw at it. And 2012 looks to be carbon copy. IMHO...0.1 and 15K attendance can't buy you love anyway you slice it.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
triple thumb post!

The IRL doesn't have a leader with the brain to listen to those who count and the balls to do what they recommend. And like the majority here, the effort it takes to type these words on such a pathetic series is...enormous.

[SurfaceUnits]

Sure the tray stickout out from the side looks stupid and the rear end looks too big. But those are things that hopefully some improvements can be made when the body kits are allowed in '13.

ummmm,,,,,,those ARE the improvements,,,,,but IM' shure they have'nt finished gomering it up yet,,so you still something to look forward to

[NismoZ]

Holy s***, you guys used to HAMMER League races to the tune of about 2-1 over F-1 posts. Now, NUTHIN '...good for you! I had no idea there was even a race this past weekend. I always relied on your often hilarious jabs for a few light moments. You have let me down! My GOD! Do you realize Special Ed WON?! Anna B. did something bad? There must be some humor there! I'm told the crowd numbered in the dozens and it was a super specTACular finish!? And how GREAT is it that the chamPEENship will be decided in the last race for the SIXTH consecutive year! On a MAJOR network! GOTTA watch this one to see if Ed can make it two in a row. BTW, who is the 5 million $ guy...Little Al? Some of those guys might STAY in Australia after their guest shots in the V-8s in a couple of weeks. I WILL watch that one. Wheldon (fresh off his big Las Vegas win?) Briscoe, Liuzzi, Power, Salo, Sarrazin, Pirro, Ollie Gavin, Morbidelli, Kanaan, Bergmeister, Tagliani, Dirk Mueller, Joey Hand, Marino Franchitti, Simon Pagenaud, GIL DE FERRAN!!, Magnussen, Helio, Boris, Pat Long:thumbup:, Bourdais...and the winners: Craig Lowndes with Andy Priaulx!:D Should be fun.

[Michaelhatesfans]

So, your answer is, "If we teach them to drive better/they were better to begin with, they wouldn't risk touching?"

FAIL. For one, even good drivers make mistakes occasionally. Two, you'll never get a full field of good, smart drivers, even under much better circumstances than now. Three, you know what, stuff happens at 230 (+?) mph in the heat of the moment (Indianapolis 1989 comes to mind) no matter how gentlemanly the drivers are. You can't, even if you should (you shouldn't) ban racing too "close" for your liking.

If you don't like it when I say that it's a combination of stupid driving and unsuitable racing conditions, that's ok. But you may want to take it up with Dario, as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCHVItEY-yA