So does Bernard get fired?

[Indy]

I'll bet Tony could fix this thing right up. He could return anytime. In fact, that is what I hope happens. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[SteveH]

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2011/11/08/baltimore-grand-prix-future-unclear-if.html

[SteveH]

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?157282-Anyone-go-to-the-test-at-IMS-today/page3


Back to the speed question: What's the problem with the DW12? Any clues? Any insider info? Are we looking at an overhaul of the aerokit?



I hear rumors that there are "huge" aero issues and that the Honda engine has a tendency to overheat...which was offered as an explanation for Dario not making very long runs at IMS. Unsure if that is due to inadequate airflow to the radiators due to aero issues or a problem inherent/specific to the Honda engine per se. Concern was expressed that a lot more work needs to be done before St. Pete than was expected.


having trouble balancing the car, front is light

car has a "shudder" in the 210mph range

....maybe


No, the car is unstable above 200+mph. Hardly a shudder.

Not maybe. Fact.



Sure sounds like Tim Cindric confirmed on Trackside that there are weight
distribution issues.

[Trevor Longman]

:laugh: :rofl: :laugh:

Just run DP-01's and be done with it. Make the world a better place.

[Gnam]

Doesn't that Green GP guy own all of them?
And none of them have engines, right?

Maybe the IRL should take next year off. It could be their breakout year.

[Trevor Longman]

Yeah but even he has to know that ship has sailed. Besides, the only thing the IRL has going for it next year is the engine suppliers and I'm sure with far less work than its gonna take to fix Dallaradart 2.0 they could modify the DP-01 to run a V6. Superleague formula in europe crammed a V12 into it so I'm sure a V6 is feasible.

[Spicoli]

Maybe the IRL should take next year off. It could be their breakout year.

I concur.

[Chief]

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2011/11/08/baltimore-grand-prix-future-unclear-if.html

Robbing Peter to pay Paul...

"Former Baltimore Racing Development CEO Jay Davidson told the Business Journal on Friday he expects ticket, sponsorship and hospitality sales in the next few months to help dig the IndyCar race’s organizers out of debt."

[chop456]

Paying it forward, in reverse. Perfect. :tony:

[emjaya]

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?157282-Anyone-go-to-the-test-at-IMS-today/page3




Good. Sounds like the car will be tough to drive. Meaning, the driver will be more of a focal point.

The current Cup cars aren't easy to drive at most places. And many of the drivers hated driving them, early on.

[Elmo T]

he expects ticket, sponsorship and hospitality sales in the next few months to help dig the IndyCar race’s organizers out of debt."

There is a long term business model that makes sense. We lost money this year, but we will make enough next year to pay for that and turn a profit. :rolleyes:

http://i39.tinypic.com/kd5nbr.jpg

[Mary]

Paying it forward, in reverse. Perfect. :tony:

Back...to the future.

Mary

[trauma1]

I bet Lola and swift are glad now that they are'nt part of this cluster f***k, i bet sponsors are dropping out like flies, just what buizness in thier right minds would get involved with the clowns form IMS:shakehead:shakehead:shakehead

[SteveH]

INDYCAR: Series Trying To Solve 2012 Car’s Speedway Issues (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-series-trying-to-solve-2012-cars-speedway-issues/P1)

[Chief]

What a shame. Six weeks to deliver the cars and they are out to lunch.

Good thing Dallara built that public funded race shop in Speedway to send drivers over to Italy to drive an Indy simulator. morAns :laugh:

[Don Quixote]

INDYCAR: Series Trying To Solve 2012 Car’s Speedway Issues (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-series-trying-to-solve-2012-cars-speedway-issues/P1)


These asshats have no idea what they are doing.


“The car isn’t going as fast as we wanted or expected and we’re trying to identify why."

[nissan gtp]

I bet Lola and swift are glad now that they are'nt part of this cluster f***k, i bet sponsors are dropping out like flies, just what buizness in thier right minds would get involved with the clowns form IMS:shakehead:shakehead:shakehead

if they were all in, they'd kick duhlarah's ass. Hence, the single-car spec. :thumdown:

[SteveH]

INDYCAR: Lotus Pushes First Track Test Back To January (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-lotus-pushes-first-track-test-back-to-january/)

[trauma1]

These asshats have no idea what they are doing.

what else should they expect, it's a dalllara turd, they get what they pay for tring to make a spec cheap ass piece of cow manure. bet they raise the cost and Judd/Lotus is going to be vaporware, Lotus is bleeding cash from thier
F1 team and rumors are that they are behind in the payments to Reanaut for thier engines

[stroker]

where's that damned popcorn smiley?

[trauma1]

where's that damned popcorn smiley?


http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1408213583359&id=04121287524703c2f5de492ffcbfd728

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1408213583359&id=04121287524703c2f5de492ffcbfd728

[Indy]

INDYCAR: Series Trying To Solve 2012 Car’s Speedway Issues (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-series-trying-to-solve-2012-cars-speedway-issues/P1)

Laughter is good medicine. :laugh:

[Chief]

This variable body kit idea is the nuts! Maybe they should run the R/C kit on the ovals and see what they get. ICONIC FAIL :rofl:

[SurfaceUnits]

what did they think bolting new bodywork on the same old chassis was going to do for them?

[trauma1]

This variable body kit idea is the nuts! Maybe they should run the R/C kit on the ovals and see what they get. ICONIC FAIL :rofl:

just blow it up and start over, find someone to but the series fron IMS,they only have the mindy 497. The only thing is i cannot think of anyone who can run the series and turn it around, if they ever needed Gurneys White pa per now is the time. I cannot find anything positive in the series that benifits the owners and especially the drivers:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[miatanut]

You can say "paper" here.

[TravelGal]

You can say "paper" here.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

So do we all love the newly announced race in CHINA? That's what the series was established for: street races in China. No, er, :confused:

My favorite part is Bernard saying, “We are very excited and truly grateful for the full support of the Chinese Government, Qingdao City Government and related Government Bureaus.... " You betcha.

It will coincide with the Qingdao International Beer Festival so they can complete the NASCARization of open wheel.

[trauma1]

i will not be surprised if these idiots will be the one that go to Iran to run on the road course they are building:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Ziggy]

I could run it, and I would ask SteveHorne for help

[Spicoli]

what did they think bolting new bodywork on the same old chassis was going to do for them?

Mr. Potatoe Head car.

[stroker]

The question is, how do we get all their Visas revoked while they're over there...

[SurfaceUnits]

isn't Chiner still runned by a bunch of comanists,,,,this will never be approved at trackforum

[Andrew Longman]

isn't Chiner still runned by a bunch of comanists,,,,this will never be approved at trackforum

Yep.

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?157569-Politics-of-the-China-Race

[SurfaceUnits]

China has bailed out our Government...might as well bail out Indycar.

I think they will run the Jugo Chavez 500 in Vinazoowayla negst

[trauma1]

China has bailed out our Government...might as well bail out Indycar.

I think they will run the Jugo Chavez 500 in Vinazoowayla negst

The Tehran 70 virgins GP:rolleyes::gomer::gomer::gomer::gomer:

[Spicoli]

The Tehran 70 virgins GP:rolleyes::gomer::gomer::gomer::gomer:

Might watch that.

:Pafftard:

[SteveH]

Road to second Grand Prix full of twists (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/auto-racing/baltimore-grand-prix/bs-md-grand-prix-problems-20111112,0,2098958.story)

[SurfaceUnits]

Green Savoree will pickitup; the damn family will pay the 1.5mil

[trauma1]

Not like they weren't warned about this, :D:D:D:D:rofl::rofl::laugh::laugh:

[NismoZ]

They were warned a SuperAtlantic, perhaps a Swift, would be too fast for IndyLights, maybe faster than their new IndyCar ideas, so this new thing being slower might just be what they were aiming for...and they didn't even know it!:gomer: Forget that, it doesn't make any sense.:shakehead Which MAY actually mean that's EXACTLY what they were trying to do! Design goals: heavier, slower, uglier, expensiver...SUCCESS!

[SteveH]

Sam Hornish glad he's Indy-free (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111114/SPT0601/111150336/-Hornish-glad-he-s-Indy-free?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CSports)

[Chief]

Fascinating....apparently IndyCar is so desperate for tracks they are querying Indy 500 tix owners if they'll support an early May 2012 Indy road course race....:p


The thought of Indy cars running on ANYTHING but the oval at IMS is blasphemy in addition to being a really BAD IDEA. As road courses go, it sucks and the cars would look dog slow but the real problem is that the Indy 500 is INDYCAR's identity. Why in the name of Wilbur Shaw would you want to run anything but the oval? Especially in May. Nobody would watch and it denigrates the big show.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-millers-mailbag-1116

[trauma1]

old man Hulman must be rolling in his grave, screw tradition:shakehead:shakehead:shakehead

[Napoleon]

Awesome - how long until they are running figure 8 races in the infield?

[Corner5]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

So do we all love the newly announced race in CHINA? That's what the series was established for: street races in China. No, er, :confused:

My favorite part is Bernard saying, “We are very excited and truly grateful for the full support of the Chinese Government, Qingdao City Government and related Government Bureaus.... " You betcha.

It will coincide with the Qingdao International Beer Festival so they can complete the NASCARization of open wheel.

China won out over Road America for the race. China is paying $15million.

Enjoy your crap sammich irlers. :tony:

[stroker]

Okay, so here's the translation:

"Our new car appears to be a turd. Not only is it not working as we planned, but now that we've gratered Dan Wheldon it's a legal liability. We have no option but to run that car as there's no time to do anything else and what microscopic level of credibility we had is riding on it. Regardless of the fact the car is a turd, it must succeed financially. We have no other option. We need another venue. It cannot be a large oval because the car is so slow and unbalanced. It can't be a small oval since none of you unappreciative f***s show up at them. In light of the fact we're going to be at IMS for the last two weekends of the month, maybe we can kill two birds with one stone. Let's run a race three weeks in advance of the 500 on the road course at IMS. That way we can claim we're helping the local economy like we used to and still claim a venue for our overall track count. It won't be on the oval so we don't have to worry about the grater. It'll be on the road course (probably running backward) so we can't compare lap times against the last F1 race. Would you please, PLEASE, consider showing up to watch us race that crappy road course in our crappy cars to help save the series? Please?"

[TravelGal]

Okay, so here's the translation:

"Our new car appears to be a turd. Not only is it not working as we planned, but now that we've gratered Dan Wheldon it's a legal liability. We have no option but to run that car as there's no time to do anything else and what microscopic level of credibility we had is riding on it. Regardless of the fact the car is a turd, it must succeed financially. We have no other option. We need another venue. It cannot be a large oval because the car is so slow and unbalanced. It can't be a small oval since none of you unappreciative f***s show up at them. In light of the fact we're going to be at IMS for the last two weekends of the month, maybe we can kill two birds with one stone. Let's run a race three weeks in advance of the 500 on the road course at IMS. That way we can claim we're helping the local economy like we used to and still claim a venue for our overall track count. It won't be on the oval so we don't have to worry about the grater. It'll be on the road course (probably running backward) so we can't compare lap times against the last F1 race. Would you please, PLEASE, consider showing up to watch us race that crappy road course in our crappy cars to help save the series? Please?"

:rofl::rofl::rofl: :thumbup: Best thing I've read in ages. Man, did you nail it. On all points.

[High Sided]

old man Hulman must be rolling in his grave, screw tradition:shakehead:shakehead:shakehead

i'm guessing he rolled over years ago and has been digging a hole to china. he's not gonna be happy when he gets there. :rolleyes:

[SteveH]

Back OT to the original question, when does Randy get fired?

Maybe soon?

http://www.ibj.com/the-score/2011/11/18/indycar-has-had-ups-and-downs-since-wheldon-death/PARAMS/post/30874

[G.]

Back OT to the original question, when does Randy get fired?

Maybe soon?

http://www.ibj.com/the-score/2011/11/18/indycar-has-had-ups-and-downs-since-wheldon-death/PARAMS/post/30874

Unless they have the PERFECT CEO candidate banging on the door with real plans for the future, I think they'd be blithering idiots to fire Ropin' Randy.

So it must be true, Randy's gone, no replacement identified. :D

[chop456]

The 2012 schedule announcement—or lack thereof—has to be slowing down sponsorship and ticket sales for next year.

Ticket sales? :laugh::rofl::rofl::laugh::eek::rofl::laugh: :gomer:

[SurfaceUnits]

Ticket sales? :laugh::rofl::rofl::laugh::eek::rofl::laugh: :gomer:

well it does say ticket,,,,and not tickets

[NismoZ]

They should try to Run the IndyCar road race, the I500, the Grand Am "enduro", that Brickyard thing and the Moto GP...all on the same extended Memorial Day weekend! I wonder which one would be the feature event?:tony: I'd go to that one...if they were giving away red hats. Who would Chip get to ride for him in Moto!?

[Indy]

So it must be true, Randy's gone, no replacement identified. :D

You know who the replacement will be. :tony:

[SurfaceUnits]

You know who the replacement will be. :tony:

wjho else could leed the IRL to such an unpresedented level then TOney GOrge,,,who. BOGgels the minded dont it

[SteveH]

Ouch

Baltimore Grand Prix organizers hit with $600,000 tax lien (http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2011/11/21/baltimore-grand-prix-organizers-hit.html)



And another proud tradition (http://www.jailbase.com/en/arrested/fl-bso/2011-10-17/slick-racin-gardner-581100912) continues.........

[Mary]

Ouch



And another proud tradition (http://www.jailbase.com/en/arrested/fl-bso/2011-10-17/slick-racin-gardner-581100912) continues.........

I guess he forgot what Indy means. OTOH, maybe he didn't.

Mary

[SurfaceUnits]

Ouch

Baltimore Grand Prix organizers hit with $600,000 tax lien (http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2011/11/21/baltimore-grand-prix-organizers-hit.html)

.

you can't say the IRl never did anything for anybody-,,,them CART financial figgers the IRL uses to promote street races must all have been lies too

[SurfaceUnits]

7L9hnlriDoI

[Chief]

That CCWS engine, even detuned, makes the the new IRl boat anchor sound like a Cox .49 comparatively. :laugh:

[SteveH]

I really wish I hadn't watched that. Even watered down that kicks ass over anything that we'll see in a long long time.

[Indy]

Is that the one where Dornboos made Bourdais cry? :rofl:

[SteveH]

Hey, tomorrow's the annual Hulman/George family Thanksgiving Dinner and Cage Match. My money's on Nancy.

[Chief]

Shes the one who looks like Alfred E. Neuman>?

[SteveH]

INDYCAR: Inside The 2012 Car’s Design & Development Issues
SPEED's Marshall Pruett delves into the issues facing the new Dallara DW12 and what the IndyCar Series and its partners are doing to solve those problems ASAP.


http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-inside-the-2012-cars-design-development-issues

[Napoleon]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-inside-the-2012-cars-design-development-issues

Oh man, they are so ****ed. Way too many moving parts (figuratively speaking) for them to fix in way too short of time.

This just reeks of a catastrophic cluster-**** level of incompetence. Seriously, they did not have an estimate from the manufacturer within ¼ lbs of what the gearbox would weigh? This isn’t building that news Mars rover or a new style jet fighter where you are doing something that has never been done before.

Did I mention they are so ****ed?

PS, I love the name they gave the rear: “Kardashians”. Kind of sums up the whole series.

[Rogue Leader]

Oh man, they are so ****ed. Way too many moving parts (figuratively speaking) for them to fix in way too short of time.

This just reeks of a catastrophic cluster-**** level of incompetence. Seriously, they did not have an estimate from the manufacturer within ¼ lbs of what the gearbox would weigh? This isn’t building that news Mars rover or a new style jet fighter where you are doing something that has never been done before.

Did I mention they are so ****ed?

PS, I love the name they gave the rear: “Kardashians”. Kind of sums up the whole series.

They said it on the first page of the article, basically describing the HRT F1 car that Dallara built as crap because of fundamental issues with their CFD and design philosophy. And of course as we all know it was crap.

They need to call Williams Engineering, they will probably fix it in a week, and get rid of these clowns from Dallara.

[Napoleon]

They said it on the first page of the article, basically describing the HRT F car that Dallara built as crap because of fundamental issues with their CFD and design philosophy.

I saw - The whole process was amateurish. It is just amazing.

[Rogue Leader]

I saw - The whole process was amateurish. It is just amazing.

Being that the car is so far off and they have less than 5 months before 28 of these things have to RACE and not kill anyone I would be crapping a brick. Hell I have 3 months to change the headgasket in my Lemons car and I'm like damn I hope I get it done in time!

[Napoleon]

5 months

Actually less then 4 months, and it is not exactly like you show up and assemble the car the day before the race.

They are ****ed.

[Ripped]

They said it on the first page of the article, basically describing the HRT F1 car that Dallara built as crap because of fundamental issues with their CFD and design philosophy. And of course as we all know it was crap.

They need to call Williams Engineering, they will probably fix it in a week, and get rid of these clowns from Dallara.

How about you just open up the rules and let the teams and chassis makers all fix the problem themselves. You know, like real racing? :flame::flame::flame:

[Andrew Longman]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-inside-the-2012-cars-design-development-issues


...the DW12’s problems are solvable with time and money, but who will pay for the fixes—Dallara, its vendors, the series or the owners buying the cars--remains unclear. And that right there will screw the pooch.

I don't think they can even put their new engines in the old chassis. Not enough power for the weight and drag to be anywhere near as good as the old package, let alone better and more eggsiting.

DP01s?


Phillips says INDYCAR isn’t looking for anything beyond what the previous Dallara achieved.

So there was a point to this silliness? It sorta works on road courses but not better than the old on the single track it needs to be designed for?

And the wheelbase is fixed? Stupid.

Should be even more fun to design aero packages for a chassis that already has been squeezed as much as possible just to make it drivable.

[Spicoli]

How about you just open up the rules and let the teams and chassis makers all fix the problem themselves. You know, like real racing? :flame::flame::flame:

B. Because it's not real racing. These guys are rejects, washed up, no talents couldn't find a ride in any other series. Hell half of them pay to dribe.

I really hope they just start cancelling races. I hope they cancel the year. I hope they cancel the whole damn thing.

Thanks gain Tony. Prick. :tony:

Love, H8r spickolee.

[Napoleon]

So there was a point to this silliness? It sorta works on road courses but not better than the old on the single track it needs to be designed for?

That is just pure CYA. They can't very well say they were aiming for worse performance, so they said they were aiming for the lowest possible performace they could say with a straight face in front of a camera.




And the wheelbase is fixed? Stupid.

Isn't that just amazing, particularly for a spec class. I would think it would be a no brainer to build in a little wiggle room just in case.

[SteveH]

http://i43.tinypic.com/11wc0oh.jpg

[Wheel-Nut]

Where's the guy that bought all the DP-01s? lol . . .

[Ziggy]

I found it difficult to read because I don't care actually

This spec car was never chosen by any committee, rather by the Government of Indianapolis in cahoots with the City of Speedways Town Board.

just more proof that it is truely over. This car is a tub, from a manufacturer that has a long history of nothing.

[Spicoli]

http://i43.tinypic.com/11wc0oh.jpg

Winner

[trauma1]

Did anyone really thunk they would build a real race car, , they are so F****ked:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::gomer::gomer: :gomer:

[SteveH]

Angstadt resigns

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/royhobbson



And the last of the good ones are gone. Terry Angstadt resigns from IndyCar. All hope is lost. Sigh.

[Chief]

pfffft, wGAF :thumbup:

[SteveH]

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/marshallpruett



Brace yourself, @IndyCar fans.

[SteveH]

Robin Miller says Angstadt fired and Barnhart removed from race control

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-barnhart-removed-from-race-control-angstadt-fired/

[Trevor Longman]

Way to shove this announcement under the rug. Theres a reason they released this at 11:30 at night. Methinks the inevitable upcoming announcement saying they're ditching the DW12 will be put out even later.

[Chief]

Will aL Jr. get promoted because of this? ;):gomer:

At this point, ditching the stupid DW12 and lame duck another season with the 9 year old crapwaggons is all they got....and PT wanted this to be his swan song....

[racermike]

http://radioactiveliberty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/donald-trump-youre-fired.jpg

[Spicoli]

Robin Miller says Angstadt fired and Barnhart removed from race control

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-barnhart-removed-from-race-control-angstadt-fired/

Jesus. While this is great news for us H8ers, it's really sad for the true believers. What moron is going to want to pick up this mess and try to make a new shiny toy? Even rodeo clown has to be thinking his future right now.

[Napoleon]

Robin Miller says Angstadt fired and Barnhart removed from race control

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-barnhart-removed-from-race-control-angstadt-fired/

What? They aren't firing Barnhart? Does he have pictures of Randy with a rodeo clown or what?

[Lux Interior]

What? They aren't firing Barnhart? Does he have pictures of Randy with a rodeo clown or what?

Now now - they were just playing nude leap-frog.

[Elmo T]

Barnhart's pre-qualifying tradition of leaning into the cockpit at Indy will no longer be a part of the great race's offerings.

Who knew. :rolleyes:

Yup - a fine Indy tradition there. :shakehead

[extramundane]

The possible candidates to replace Barnhart are former CART driver Scott Pruett, ALMS chief steward Beaux Barfield and longtime CART team owner Steve Horne, who has maintained all along he’s not interested in a full-time job.

Unethical CART-loving hacks who don't know what Indy means.

[Napoleon]

Now now - they were just playing nude leap-frog.

I guess that is OK. As long as Randy wasn't trying to hide his checkered flag in the clown's barrel.

[TKGAngel]

At this point, ditching the stupid DW12 and lame duck another season with the 9 year old crapwaggons is all they got....and PT wanted this to be his swan song....

So if KV Racing decides to pull their (3) 9-year-old crappers off of E-bay, we know something's cooking? (All three cars can be yours for $135k total or $50k each, if I read the ad right.)


Way to shove this announcement under the rug. Theres a reason they released this at 11:30 at night. Methinks the inevitable upcoming announcement saying they're ditching the DW12 will be put out even later.

It's called taking out the trash.You release it at an odd time in the hopes that no one picks up on it because it's late/past deadline/no more column inches/web space to fill.

[Napoleon]

It's called taking out the trash.You release it at an odd time in the hopes that no one picks up on it because it's late/past deadline/no more column inches/web space to fill.

But ussually that is a Friday night, and last Friday night or Wed at 5pm would have even been even better then a regular old Friday night.

[SteveH]

Way to shove this announcement under the rug. Theres a reason they released this at 11:30 at night. Methinks the inevitable upcoming announcement saying they're ditching the DW12 will be put out even later.

It worked, not a mention at the Star's website. As late as it was announced I doubt if it is in print, either.

[Ripped]

It worked, not a mention at the Star's website. As late as it was announced I doubt if it is in print, either.

Or the lack of coverage is just because nobody gives a crap any longer. Srsly.

[SteveH]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-chevy-honda-test-2012-dallara-at-auto-club-speedway/P1



"Yeah, it's evil on entry, not sure about what to say in the middle [of the corner] and then it pushes like crazy. It's just nasty getting in; an ill feeling, and I had two or three big moments today. With most cars you can anticipate what's coming, but with this car, you're not sure what to expect. We were far from trimmed out, [but] had to put most of the downforce back in. But the way it is now it's not going to be easy-flat, I can promise you that."




The engine manufacturers were asked to provide more power for the test at ACS, and according to one of the camps, it did not result in the straight-line speed improvement that was expected, which would point to excessive drag continuing to limit the car’s top speed

[trauma1]

they deserve everything they are reaping, Karma is a bitch

The Way It Is/ An opportunity lost?
by Gordon Kirby
Last week I discussed the problems with racing Indy cars on high-banked ovals with Bruce Ashmore. At the end of last week's column Ashmore said he believes IndyCar has made only minor incremental changes both in terms of crash safety and eliminating safety problems with the dreaded 'pack racing'. This week we explore more of Ashmore's analysis of the new Dallara and discuss what the correct formula should be for Indy cars.

First of all, most fans and all the drivers, past and present, want to see more power. The fans want the drivers to lift for the corners, use the brakes, then get back on the power and drive their cars, using their advantage in every area to cleanly execute a pass rather than droning around in packs straining for lap after lap to gain the tiniest advantage. Using the brakes and throttle to best effect is what automobile racing was all about for most of a century until NASCAR invented restrictor plate racing and the IRL followed suit with its squalid little formula.

Personally, I think the classic CART car with tiny speedway wings was as elegant an Indy car as there's ever been. It worked well and put on a good show on all types of tracks with plenty of power--900 and upwards of 1,000 horsepower--to be able to pass and race back and forth. It was necessary to get out of the throttle for the corners and possibly use the brakes, then judiciously get back on the power. Ashmore believes the 2012 Dallara-Honda/Chevy/Lotus combination is only a small step in the direction of the old CART formula and falls far short of the objective.

"They're trying to go somewhere else to create what was there before," Ashmore remarks. "Well, that's not right. Go back to what was there before. I'm sure you can attain what was there before if you go back to that formula. There was nothing wrong with it. So just re-run it."

Ashmore has no doubts the power needs to be substantially increased.


© Paul Webb
"It needs to be 1,000 horsepower," he declares. "Going to 550 or 700 bhp is nothing. It's not enough of a change to make it interesting. It needs to be 1,000 horsepower. Then on the road and street courses and the mile ovals the cars will be a handful and will be hard to drive.

"You never hear the drivers talk today about how hard the cars are to drive. When I came into CART in the eighties every weekend was a struggle about how to keep the tires under the driver. You worked on that all the time trying to get the car through the whole race. But now everything is the same through the whole race. Everyone goes 'round and 'round at exactly the same speed with no change. They're not being strained. They're too easy to drive. And nobody can pass."

It's true not only on oval tracks but also at road courses like Mid-Ohio and Infineon Raceway where passing is equally impossible and a procession ensues looking more like Indy Lights or GP2 cars than full-blooded Indy cars. Given that the new formula is likely to retain the same characteristics as the old one the new Dallara's bodywork has been designed to attempt to reduce the chance of wheels interlocking and cars flying. The idea was a key component in Ashmore's BAT design and he believes the new Dallara doesn't go far enough in this regard.

"I've wanted to stop wheels interlocking and tread to tread contact for some time," Ashmore comments. "I worked on it and discussed it in the CART days and then in the IRL. When you're cornering at the maximum of the vehicle's grip as soon as the tires touch each other tread to tread one car lifts off the road and it goes sideways and then the crash happens.

"They think they've made some steps on that but they've still designed a car with a flimsy front wing, a flimsy piece of bodywork around the front wheels and no bodywork behind the rear of the front tire. The front tire is still exposed so you can still have a tread to tread or interlocking wheel accident which is what starts the flying accident. And that will still happen with the new car. They think they've solved it because that was in their mandate. But if you look at what they've designed the bodywork is not strong enough to stop the start of the accident."

Ashmore also believes not enough attention has been paid to the driver's seating position.

"I think the drivers need to sit more upright so they don't crush the driver's spine when they crash," he suggests. "I don't believe the seat is that much different in the new Dallara. They've made a change but it's only a small step. It's not a big enough change. We knew that the CART car had a problem and we needed to sit the driver in a more upright position.

"I know from the study I made to design our BAT car that the car you needed to make would not fit into an Indy car transporter. You need a more upright seating position and another four or five inches above the driver's head for the roll hoop and it's too tall to go into an Indy car transporter. It would have to go in a NASCAR transporter. But they specified the car had to fit in the current IndyCar transporter because the teams couldn't afford scrapping or modifying all their transporters.


© LAT USA
"So everything is a compromise. They spent all that time going to a new car and then they boxed themselves into a corner. Then on top of all that they've further compromised it by telling the teams they've got to race on NASCAR racetracks."

Ashmore has a bleak view of the process that took place in last year's contest for IndyCar's 2012 car. He believes each of the contestants was used unethically by IndyCar and Dallara to produce the new car.

"In my view the way they went about it was quite dishonest. All of us competing car builders had to sign our ideas away. All our ideas went into a pot and we had to sign a document saying that if we didn't win the contract they kept our ideas.

"That's one thing, but the sad part is they awarded the contract to a racing car building company in Italy who are just building another in a range of racing cars. It's a lot like their other cars and they're not using all the ideas that we put forward. They're only scratching the surface and, as I say, making a five percent step. They completely ignored a lot of what we suggested. They've just done what they felt like.

"All of our ideas and Lola's ideas and Swift's and the Delta Wing group's ideas went in and they took our ideas to make this new car. But they only took a small portion of them so that they've only made a five percent step. So what's the point?"

Ashmore remains dismayed and deeply disappointed with the way the Iconic committee's decision unfolded.

"I put my heart and soul into the design of a car that I believe they wanted to win the bid. I designed what I thought should have been the next Indy car and it could have been used as a rule book or it could have been used as a spec car. I offered it both ways. It would have been a spec car built in Indianapolis with Indianapolis companies and suppliers. Or it could have been used as a rule book.

"We lost the bid because the winner put in a business plan, not a plan for the car. It was a building on Main Street in Speedway and a business plan for the build and supply of all the cars but nothing for the design of the car. The rest of us believed we were putting in a plan for the design of a car and that the winner would be the best design.


© BAT Motorsport Engineering
"I stand by the car I designed. It would have been a game-changer. It was a much bigger step change than what Dallara has done."

Ashmore also believes IndyCar has set Dallara up for some difficult if not impossible budget-balancing.

"They've been stuck to a budget," he says. "They've been told what price to sell the car for. People don't understand that when you dictate that you've got to have this carbon fiber chassis and carbon fiber wings and a lighter aluminum gearbox. They've dictated a lot of the more expensive items in the manufacturing but they've also dictated the sales price too. It's ridiculous.

"If you really want to have a cheaper price and better product then let the rules be open about the materials. Maybe you would use a lot more steel fabrication and the weight would go up but it would be cheaper. I believe the weight they set was unrealistically light and the materials are unrealistically expensive, so they have to compromise."

Ashmore is equally sure that IndyCar's 2012 engine rules are too restrictive.

"If you look at the rules that they've saddled Chevy, Honda and Lotus with, they're going to build the same thing. Okay, there will be three different badges on three different engines but the rules are so tight that you can't make anything really different."

Nor is he aware of much if any activity in the Dallara project from the American or Indianapolis racing industry's component manufacturers and suppliers.

"The cars are being built in Italy and the gearboxes (Xtrac) are being built in England," Ashmore says. "I don't know anybody in America who's making components for that car which is very sad because IndyCar seem to have conned the government officials in Indianapolis along with the Indiana tax payers who ultimately are footing the bill for the grants to the team owners to subsidize the purchase of this new car, a car that was supposed to have had its components made in America."


© Paul Webb
Ashmore believes IndyCar needs a much more open rule book aimed at encouraging multiple car builders and more exciting cars. But he's convinced the IndyCar organization is lost amid the maze of spec car thinking and has given up any faith in a free and open market.

"You need to have a rulebook with a few simple rules," he says. "You've got to come up with something that reduces the downforce. The price will take care of itself because as soon as you've got competition in the pitlane one guy will figure out how to make a cheaper car and will outsell the other guy. That's what happened before in the CART days and that's what they need to do again. You need to have multiple chassis builders and multiple engine builders and you need to not run them on the tracks we know they don't work on."

Ashmore is a big believer in IndyCar returning to America's great road courses and developing a schedule of races much like CART enjoyed at its height.

"They need to go back to nice venues like Laguna Seca and Elkhart Lake," he comments. "The reason I thought CART worked so well was it had a very good mix of venues. The teams were owned by wealthy car owners and they wanted to go to nice places and they would bring along their friends who would bring along sponsors. So as the cost went up the sponsorship went up but there were nice places to go to. I thought it was really clever.

"We went to Canada in Toronto and Vancouver and then when we went outside North America we went to Surfers Paradise in Australia. All of them were really nice places and attractive to sponsors. Almost every race was a nice race to go to. There were a few odd ones like the Michigan 500 but they thought they ought to race there because it was near Detroit.

"It was fun and it worked, but you go in the paddock today and everyone is miserable. They don't have any sponsorship and they don't enjoy the cars or venues. They don't know why they're doing it."

Ashmore reflected on how CART's many managers and marketing men told the teams and the car and engine builders through the organization's hedays that the fans turned out only to see the drivers. There was little or no appeal in the cars or engines claimed those many geniuses who helped drive CART into the ground.

"When it was 1,000 horsepower and four engine companies were going at it and you had all the combinations of three different chassis and four engines we were always told that wasn't what the fans came to see," Ashmore recalls. "We were told they came to see the star drivers and we always wondered how true that was. We used to ask let's see what happens when everybody is driving the same equipment. Let's see how many fans you've got. I guess we have the answer to that today don't we?"

We've witnessed a sad, inexorably silly and lethal story over the past fifteen years. The lack of leadership, technically and otherwise, has been stunning. And so it continues.


Auto Racing ~ Gordon Kirby
Copyright 2011 ~ All Rights Reserved

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[patski]

Bingo!

[Chief]

Holy crap, the whole test is depending on this:

http://assets.speedtv.com/images/article_assets/109/1094917/1094917_article_img_large2.jpg

They have no idea what direction the car is going..... :laugh: