So does Bernard get fired?

[Rogue Leader]

Everything's normal. :gomer::thumbup:
That grater just lept out in front of Dan Wheldon's car. Just a freak accident. No way to see it coming. Who knew? We'll do better next time.

:yuck:

The best part about that quote is they say it is a "phenomenon" when in fact it was created by those who make the rules in the interest of cost cutting and preventing domination to make it more interesting. NASCAR did it (standard bodies, restrictor plates, etc), IndyCar obviously did it (spec powerplant and eventual spec car), Grand Am did it. Hell, World Challenge is based on it!

Its not a phenomenon, it didn't happen 10+ years ago and every year of racing before it, but it does happen now.

[RTKar]

Wheldon went 325 ft! :eek: Not bad for a car.

That's on par with Orville & Wilbur, Lindbergh and the Apollo moon mission for historic flights.



Considering how bad the new car is, maybe they should take on Boeing and design aircraft.

[SteveH]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/sport/motorsport/motorsport-wheldon-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/bruce_martin/12/15/dan.wheldon.investigation.indycar/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[KLang]

Tweet from CNN earlier today


#IndyCar star Dan #Wheldon killed by fence pole, says independent report. http://t.co/0N2nVkZC

So the fence pole did it! :gomer:

[Andrew Longman]

yep, TOoked TOney GOrge only one year to kill the Copper World classic


Reading through the report I don't find too many bones to pick. Other than screwing up the citation of the length of their own cars :rolleyes: and the claim that "the race car being driven at the Las Vegas Motor Speedway has evolved into a race vehicle with an unmatched safety record in open wheel racing" I think the analysis was reasonable and accurate. I'd like to see a transcript of the press conference, though I suspect it'll be a few hours before that's findable.
Technically I guess I agree. But watching a clip of Brack shunt at Texas and how cold Paul Paige got I would say they have had plenty of opportunity to get these cars off of these types of tracks. Even if everything is working "as designed".

[manic mechanic]

"I ran outta gas. I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from outta town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake, a terrible flood, locusts. It wasn't my fault!! I swear to God!!"

-Brian Barnhart

You forgot "The dog ate my homework"... What a worthless line of BS this "unbiased" report is.

My late mother used to describe behavior like this as a "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up" attitude.

Myopic at best, negligent in this case.

manic

[Ziggy]

unique conditions never seen before........... or at least since the last oval race :eek:

[extramundane]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-its-still-open-wheel-and-its-still-dangerous/P2/


Through the years Indy cars have climbed wheels or spun sideways and produced spectacular crashes (Tom Sneva’s Turn 2 barrel roll in the 1975 Indy 500, Danny Ongais’ snap roll at MIS in 1985, Pancho Cater’s inverted flip at Indy in 1987 during practice and Jim Crawford’s helicopter act in 1990 when he tripped on his suspension) but it’s hard to recall older-style Indy cars remaining airborne for a couple hundred feet.

“I don’t know that it’s any different now than it was because once you lose contact with the ground, the bigger the object is when it’s tumbling in the air the harder it is to predict where it’s going,”

I'd be lying if I said I was surprised at this statement, but holy f'ing :gomer:

:shakehead

[Indy]

I wonder if the H-G's mention any of this at confession.

[Ripped]

Why is Brian Barnhart allowed to have anything to do with racing anymore? It just seems criminal to me. He is either too stupid or too evil to be allowed to continue.

[Indy]

Ripped I have heard some speculation about who protects him and why, but I have no idea what is true and what isn't. Clearly he would not be there based on performance.

I had an interesting conversation recently with someone familiar with the Irsay/Polian relationship in the Colts organization, and the picture I was left with was one of a mentally challenged owner being taken advantage of by empire-building management. Speculation is that even if the Colts don't win a game, the Polians will stay right where they are because of the power they have over Irsay. Perhaps something similar is at play here, which is why the actions of the IRL have always been inexplicable to us. Perhaps their actions make sense seen through the lens of overpaid managers whose primary motivation is to protect their jobs (and those of their cronies) by misleading their benefactors as long as they can. If so, they will never "get it." They will just continue to line their own pockets, the sport be damned.

[Methanolandbrats]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-its-still-open-wheel-and-its-still-dangerous/P2/



I'd be lying if I said I was surprised at this statement, but holy f'ing :gomer:

:shakehead who is being quoted there? That's a special kind of stupid.

[extramundane]

who is being quoted there? That's a special kind of stupid.

Will Phillips, who according to Robin Miller is "the vice president of technology whose acumen with aerodynamics, engineering and race cars has been a welcome and long overdue addition to the IZOD IndyCar Series."

[insert facepalm here]

[Methanolandbrats]

Will Phillips, who according to Robin Miller is "the vice president of technology whose acumen with aerodynamics, engineering and race cars has been a welcome and long overdue addition to the IZOD IndyCar Series."

[insert facepalm here]

Thanks, could not bring myself to read it. Since he's an aero dude, this part is kinda puzzling, " the bigger the object is when it’s tumbling in the air the harder it is to predict where it’s going,” :D Now that is some down home physics right thar.

[Spicoli]

Ripped I have heard some speculation about who protects him and why, but I have no idea what is true and what isn't. Clearly he would not be there based on performance.

I had an interesting conversation recently with someone familiar with the Irsay/Polian relationship in the Colts organization, and the picture I was left with was one of a mentally challenged owner being taken advantage of by empire-building management. Speculation is that even if the Colts don't win a game, the Polians will stay right where they are because of the power they have over Irsay. Perhaps something similar is at play here, which is why the actions of the IRL have always been inexplicable to us. Perhaps their actions make sense seen through the lens of overpaid managers whose primary motivation is to protect their jobs (and those of their cronies) by misleading their benefactors as long as they can. If so, they will never "get it." They will just continue to line their own pockets, the sport be damned.

All kinds of agreement in this. And it for sure plays on the HG people as well. They are nothing more than trailer trash with money.

[Ziggy]

The Speedway had a very well respected golf pro for years

he had a daughter

Brainfart knocked her up

[Al Czervik]

The Speedway had a very well respected owner for years

he had a daughter

Elmer knocked her up

fixxered

[Mary]

When the idiots are broke and can't keep it going anymore.


+1, although judging by the little I read of the Baltimore debacle, they can't count.

Mary

[Mary]

footnote 30 from Accident Report:

Pack racing is a phenomenon seen in all forms of auto racing in which cars cannot achieve significant separation from each other on the race track.


No they didn't...

I'm in a state of disbelief that they actually said this.

Mary

[Napoleon]

I had an interesting conversation recently with someone familiar with the Irsay/Polian relationship in the Colts organization, and the picture I was left with was one of a mentally challenged owner being taken advantage of by empire-building management. Speculation is that even if the Colts don't win a game, the Polians will stay right where they are because of the power they have over Irsay. Perhaps something similar is at play here, which is why the actions of the IRL have always been inexplicable to us. Perhaps their actions make sense seen through the lens of overpaid managers whose primary motivation is to protect their jobs (and those of their cronies) by misleading their benefactors as long as they can. If so, they will never "get it." They will just continue to line their own pockets, the sport be damned.

You are actually getting at something that there has actually been scholarly work on the last few decades and was something I noticed on my own maybe 20 years ago in doing work for banks. Typically it is called Agency Theory or the Principal-Agent Problem. For what it is worth IMO it has become a huge problem in our society and a not insubstanial amount of current economic problems and inequality is tied to it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agency_Theory

[SteveH]

Robin Miller
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-its-still-open-wheel-and-its-still-dangerous/


The G load registered on Wheldon’s head at impact with the post was 250Gs



But the numbers that really jumped out to me were these:

• Wheldon was airborne for 325 feet (further than from home plate to the right-field wall in old Yankee Stadium, which was 314 feet).
• Will Power was airborne for 315 feet.
• Pippa Mann was airborne for 240 feet (mostly upside down).
• J.R. Hildebrand was airborne for 125 feet.



This actually was the IRL's luckiest day ever. Why there weren't multiple fatalities is a miracle.

[Chief]

Still, the pressing question going forward with the new cars named in Wheldon’s memory is how can INDYCAR try and prevent cars from taking flight?

“We have to stop the cars from flying and taking off and the new car has several features to try and stop that,” replied Will Phillips, the vice president of technology whose acumen with aerodynamics, engineering and race cars has been a welcome and long overdue addition to the IZOD IndyCar Series.
Whoa! So, they knew the cars flew all the time? Don't quite see that reflected in the 2 month accident investigation....I wonder why....? :shakehead

[Gnam]

Flight is just a natural phenomenon! Birds do it, bees do it. Natural!

[Rocketdoc]

Thanks, could not bring myself to read it. Since he's an aero dude, this part is kinda puzzling, " the bigger the object is when it’s tumbling in the air the harder it is to predict where it’s going,” :D Now that is some down home physics right thar.


"...“I don’t know that it’s any different now than it was because once you lose contact with the ground, the bigger the object is when it’s tumbling in the air the harder it is to predict where it’s going,” continued Phillips,...."

Indeed, and quite wrong.

The bigger, and in the case of a race car or part thereof, mass would have a maximum moment of inertia about it's minimum axis, (least polar moment of inertia) and would be less inclined to change it's direction.

If this guy is a Vice President, Chairman or anything of engineering, the organization is a non-professional organization, guessing at things they no nothing about... and you can take that to the bank, Robin; they're phonies.

[Mary]

Flight is just a natural phenomenon! Birds do it, bees do it. Natural!

Pterodactyls flew too and we know what happened to them.:shakehead I just keep shaking my head.

Mary

[SteveH]

Pterodactyls flew too and we know what happened to them.:shakehead I just keep shaking my head.

Mary

Pterodactyls weren't as ugly,though.

[Spicoli]

Whoa! So, they knew the cars flew all the time? Don't quite see that reflected in the 2 month accident investigation....I wonder why....? :shakehead

these people are the biggest f***ing idiots in the universe.

[SurfaceUnits]

IT's affishul: IRL has lost its last fan



NASCAR has 30+ ovals AND Danica!!!

What do you think her odds are to get a win in 2012?
Win the championship?

[I know! Im excited. NASCAR is now my favorite form of auto racing. Danica will get at least a couple wins next year, I am excited.

[datachicane]

Pterodactyls weren't as ugly,though.

Pterodactyls evolved to fit an open set of requirements.
If the Hulmans got to pick their exclusive supplier, Pterosaurs would have suffered from snap oversteer, likely due to the inexplicably mandated airbox stealing downforce from the rear aero surfaces while yawing slightly. If they'd survived long enough, they'd have eventually been equipped with rubber ass snubbers to protect their tiny little reptilian brains from backing into the ground at speed*.










*The Pterosaurs, not the Hulmans.

[Indy]

*The Pterosaurs, not the Hulmans.

No ****, dude. Everyone knows Hulmans have no brains.

[Mary]

No ****, dude. Everyone knows Hulmans have no brains.

So, that's why evolution passed them by? They haven't changed in how many million years? Unfortunately, those non-evolving species are the ones that survive mass extinctions.

Mary

[stroker]

So, that's why evolution passed them by? They haven't changed in how many million years? Unfortunately, those non-evolving species are the ones that survive mass extinctions.

Mary

Sorta like sharks and cockroaches.

[datachicane]

...or blue-green algae (that would be pond scum).

[nissan gtp]

...or blue-green algae (that would be pond scum).

Don't insult pond scum !!

[SteveH]

Something about putting a bullseye on that car seems so right. :D

http://www.pbase.com/aldofalla/image/138574758/original.jpg

[datachicane]

Well, it may be ugly, but at least it's slow.

[RTKar]

Which end is the front on that hermaphrodite? :tony:

There'll be carbon fiber everywhere, more laps run under yellow than green in 2012.

[Indy]

Yeah, what happens when one car uses the anteater nose to spear the other car in the buttcheeks? Are the buttcheeks made of titanium or something?

[chop456]

Look at the upper range of the rear wing flap adjustment.

They're either planning on running an 1/8 mile oval or adding 5,000 HP for the street courses.

[Methanolandbrats]

Look at the upper range of the rear wing flap adjustment.

They're either planning on running an 1/8 mile oval or adding 5,000 HP for the street courses.

I'd rather not look at that thing again.

[Chief]

That thing makes me dizzy.....like it was designed for ADD crack addicts with rotten teeth. :yuck:

[NismoZ]

Who says IC is not interested in safety? I hear they mandated the Target logo be placed BEHIND the driver compartment.

[NismoZ]

Wow. 841 posts trashing this thing...and it'll probably win Indy on it's first try! Success!

[Rocketdoc]

What an utter piece-O-****.

Seriously.

[SteveH]

http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/7375857/indycar-new-dallara-chassis-proving-difficult-sort-out

[Elmo T]

http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/7375857/indycar-new-dallara-chassis-proving-difficult-sort-out

Sir Mix-A-Lot approves:


Scott Dixon gave the most honest assessment of the car to date, calling it "a bit of a pig" with an even more pronounced pendulum effect than the current Dallara IR03, which is already a tail-heavy car. The numbers don't lie; the DW12 has a weight distribution of 41 percent front, 59 percent rear, as compared to the IR03's 45/55.

[Mr. Vengeance]

http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/7375857/indycar-new-dallara-chassis-proving-difficult-sort-out

"The car's handling got better during the most recent round of testing at Homestead-Miami Speedway, but the improvement came from an extreme measure: Placing 26 pounds of lead ballast in the nose of the car to balance out the weight distribution."

"This late redesign represents an opportunity for Dallara and INDYCAR to overcome the universally negative reaction to the DW12's appearance. A poll of more than 6,000 fans at AutoRacing1.com resulted in 98 percent expressing dissatisfaction with the look of the car, especially the bulbous sidepods that shroud the rear wheels."

:laugh: All kinds of good stuff in there. What a bunch of twats... My God, the scale of the ineptitude is just incredible.

[Methanolandbrats]

Look at the bright side, they'll be backing them into the wall just like the old days of the IRL instead of doing aerial tricks. That is probably an improvement and has a nice retro feel to it. :thumbup:

[Chief]

You F'n hatErs! :rofl:

[NismoZ]

Do you think Dixon could get a ride in Aussie V-8s? I wish he'd try.:)

[SurfaceUnits]

Do you think Dixon could get a ride in Aussie V-8s? I wish he'd try.:)

he was scheduled for one an then some durned driver went an got hisself kilt

[Spicoli]

98% haters?! Lolz.....x100000000000. That's comedy gold right thar.

They accuse me of being a hater, but look at how the IRL treats their fans (what few are left). No Dales, foreign built cars, engines, and drivers; sh**ty TV, 2 ovals, ugliest car ever built, comically embarrassing promotions, a long, long path of failed business relationships, management, marketing, and venues.

How this thing stays alive is beyond me.:yuck: but sure provides some laughs for us, dontchaknow!?:rofl:

[miatanut]

How this thing stays alive is beyond me.:yuck: but sure provides some laughs for us, dontchaknow!?:rofl:

You know how is stays alive. A few million here, a few million there, and you can keep it going for the True Believers. If it had to operate like a normal business, it would have been gone in three years.

[miatanut]

"A poll of more than 6,000 fans at AutoRacing1.com resulted in 98 percent expressing dissatisfaction with the look of the car, especially the bulbous sidepods that shroud the rear wheels."
Who says it needs to look good? What's important is that the H/G clan get their Dullera kick-back.

[trauma1]

they never cease to amaze do they:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[trauma1]

Nice piece of modern engineering . lets stick 26 lbs. of lead in the nose and make it a bunker buster, that nose would not pass any crash test, more weight in the nose makes it a battering ram, and then they are going to stick the teams with the cost of the revised suspension geomerty, this car is just one big cluster flock, total failure, but wht else could we expect:gomer::tony::tony:

[trauma1]

ya think Dullarara could buy a couple of gallons of flo-Viz:shakehead

[gerhard911]

No need to fire Randy, he's got a new car spec and race format that will fix all of the leegue's problems...


KGULcLUr0I4

[mapguy]

^ That's gold right there. :thumbup:

[gerhard911]

All of the calamity of earl 2011 without any of the catastrophe. Plus, it turns just like the 'wang ! Come on randy, just DOIT :gomer:

[Methanolandbrats]

All of the calamity of earl 2011 without any of the catastrophe. Plus, it turns just like the 'wang ! Come on randy, just DOIT :gomer:

After watching those Wang Prototypes on a short oval, I cannot wait to see the real thing brake and turn in for the Mulsanne chicane :D

[SteveH]

http://www.ibj.com/las-vegas-calamity-saps-indycar-momentum/PARAMS/article/31574

[Methanolandbrats]

http://www.ibj.com/las-vegas-calamity-saps-indycar-momentum/PARAMS/article/31574

They had momentum? :rofl:

[Chief]

Thats a great article....highlights the momentum perrfectly. :rofl::laugh:

[Michaelhatesfans]

http://www.ibj.com/las-vegas-calamity-saps-indycar-momentum/PARAMS/article/31574

"The probe concluded Wheldon died when his head slammed into a post holding up a catch fence above the retaining wall ringing the outer edge of the 1.5-mile track."

That's kind of like determining that a gun shot victim died when his heart stopped beating.:irked:

[SurfaceUnits]

I was told he died at the hospital. You just can't believe anything those people tell you.

and do you really think he is RingIP knowing the crap he died for. HAy Dan, you left your wife and child for crap.

[SteveH]

He probably wasn't pronounced dead until at the hospital. When there is a fatality during a race, does it ever get officially announced at the track?

[Methanolandbrats]

All motorsport fatalities die at the hospital because having a coroner do a four hour investigation at the track screws things up.

[Michaelhatesfans]

All motorsport fatalities die at the hospital because having a coroner do a four hour investigation at the track screws things up.

No one is allowed to die in the ambulance, either.

[SurfaceUnits]

having a coroner do a four hour investigation at the track screws things up.

you need to leave that to perfesionals like Brian Barnhart

[Indy]

Just shut it down.

Death to the IRL.

[Spicoli]

Just shut it down.

Death to the IRL.

Nonsense. This garbage will continue for a while. If it hasn't died yet, don't expect it to any time soon.

[MoCartt]

Nonsense. This garbage will continue for a while. If it hasn't died yet, don't expect it to any time soon.

Vampires and Zombies are still big in popular culture. Sucking the blood out of just about everything that is creative...and then the lifeless corpse fashionably ambles around for some time until no longer able to generate income.

:shakehead

[Mary]

Just shut it down.

Death to the IRL.


The IRL (IndyCar) is dead. We're left with the zombie version.

Mary

[Mary]

Vampires and Zombies are still big in popular culture. Sucking the blood out of just about everything that is creative...and then the lifeless corpse fashionably ambles around for some time until no longer able to generate income.

:shakehead

MoCartt, I replied before I finished the thread! Maybe the armageddon thing in 2012 will take care of 'em.

Mary

[Indy]

Vampires and Zombies are still big in popular culture. Sucking the blood out of just about everything that is creative...and then the lifeless corpse fashionably ambles around for some time until no longer able to generate income.

:shakehead

I think I will write a book: "How the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Destroyed Auto Racing"

If it weren't for that ****ing track... :mad:

[gerhard911]

I think I will write a book: "How the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Destroyed Auto Racing"

If it weren't for that ****ing track... :mad:

You are giving them too much credit. Quite a bit of help was provided by the NA$TARD clan.

[Indy]

You are giving them too much credit. Quite a bit of help was provided by the NA$TARD clan.

I am more fixated on the Speedway because I grew up loving it. I suppose I still could if decent people owned it and did the right things for the sport.

The Na$tards, on the other hand, have always been nothing but toothless sister-****ing hilljack degenerate confederates, so my hate for them has never wavered.

[SurfaceUnits]

Watching the walking dead, it takes a head shot to fix zombies; plane crashes have been known to fix other things

[Methanolandbrats]

Watching the walking dead, it takes a head shot to fix zombies; plane crashes have been known to fix other things

I don't think a headshot would be fatal to anyone running North American Racing.

[miatanut]

You are giving them too much credit. Quite a bit of help was provided by the NA$TARD clan.

Tony gave them something to work with on a silver platter.

[High Sided]

dead aluminum in ticket map for 2012 :gomer:

http://secure.brickyard.com/Resources/images/Maps/Stands/Oval/img_map.png

[Chief]

What happenned to them seats between T1 and T2?

[cameraman]

Mostly that is incompetent graphics skilz. Trackforum has a thread discussing the finer details:rolleyes:

[Spicoli]

Zombies and vampires aren't real. Tony George is.

[miatanut]

dead aluminum in ticket map for 2012 :gomer:

http://secure.brickyard.com/Resources/images/Maps/Stands/Oval/img_map.png

Not very many reserved seats these days, are there? :rofl:

If I remember correctly, before Tony fixed everything, most seats were reserved and if you wanted to move up, somebody above you needed to die.

[MoCartt]

Zombies and vampires aren't real. Tony George is.

The racing isn't real.

And, the last time I saw Anton in the flesh, he looked like a zombie.

Co-inky-dense?

I think not.

[SurfaceUnits]

So is the new car afficially a Spicoli Front Lawn Special

[SteveH]

I just read on an internet forum frequented by youthful IndyCar enthusiasts that the 2012 Carb Day concert will be Lynyrd Skynyrd. Fitting, don't you think? On several levels.

Hope they perform Simple Man and dedicate it to Tony George.

[NismoZ]

WOW! See how popular big time open wheel racing is here!? It's not even the new year and we're ALREADY talking about The Greatest Testicle In Racing! Ahh, the anticipation! I suggest the recent Humongous One at Vegas may even BOOST interest at the Speedway in May! I wonder how they'll portray that disaster and try to turn it to their advantage? I can see the TV ads now.:shakehead

[Napoleon]

Fitting, don't you think? On several levels.

Is that a reference to the IRL crashing and burning?

[the weebler]

Is that a reference to the IRL crashing and burning?

Or old, tired, embarrassing, and irrelevant. The metaphors are endless.

[MoCartt]

Hope they perform Simple Man and dedicate it to Tony George.

Maybe "That Smell" dedicated to the whole stinkin' thing!

[Rex Karz]

http://lynyrdskynyrddixie.com/dixie/wp-content/uploads/Lynyrd-Skynyrd-Street-Survivors1.jpg

"Street Survivors" is an appropriate name for the EARL too.

[SteveH]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/auto-racing/baltimore-grand-prix/bs-md-ci-grand-prix-restructuring-20111228,0,6346947.story

[Spicoli]

http://lynyrdskynyrddixie.com/dixie/wp-content/uploads/Lynyrd-Skynyrd-Street-Survivors1.jpg

"Street Survivors" is an appropriate name for the EARL too.

I am not due I have ever evenh seined a foto of these clowns afore. I am laughing beyond control. Is this what they really look like? **** I may go for the sheer comedic entertainment value!:D

[Ziggy]

http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/LynyrdSkynyrd-N55VM.htm

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR78-06.pdf

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19771020-1

Really bad day for me actually. Standing out in the fall chill waiting for the school bus, and having a friend tell me he heard it on the news.

Great Band

[SteveH]

Most of the original band is dead, even those who survived the crash

[Andrew Longman]

Or old, tired, embarrassing, and irrelevant. The metaphors are endless.Their plane reportedly ran out of fuel and crashed in 1977 (the plane burned fuel faster than expected and the crew wasn't paying attention)-- killing three members and effectively ending the band.

IIRC in THIS version of the band only Gary Rossington is left from the pre-crash version of the band. The survivors either were kicked out or drank themselves to death. A poor facsimile of the original. Similar in name only.

And I think Powell, before he died, played in a Christian Rock band called Vision.

And Skynard had an album a few years back called The Viscous Cycle Tour.

Yeah. They are the perfect Indy Tribute Band.

[Napoleon]

I didn't realize that their plane crashed due to lack of fuel.

An unforgivable mistake.