View Full Version : Are you kidding me?
Artemus
10-22-11, 10:26 PM
OK, I haven't been following open-wheel racing for long time. The Moore and Zanardi accidents combined with some idiotic decisions by CART (the Texas fiasco and announcing a switch to the IRL spec so they could chase Indy, for instance) were a big part of it, and the inability to regularly see CCWS races on any channels I get finished it. I have had no interest whatsoever in IRL races...open wheel cars have no business on high banks and the only surprise is that it took so long for the incidents of last week to happen. And of course the IRL car had no business being on a road course either (or any track, really, with its tendency to take off).
However, I have paid at least some attention (BIF is a big draw here!), and was actually getting interested again. The new car was going to be turbocharged, with greater ground-effect downforce, and therefore better suited to real racing, it seemed. In fact, it was looking to the causal observer that the IRL officials had finally seen the light and the sport was moving back toward the way it was in the golden years of the early/mid 90s. And of course, Tony George was gone. I saw that the Las Vegas race was televised on ABC, so I turned it on a few laps in and ... nearly **** my pants when I saw the cars in the horrible pack and changed the channel immediately. Very glad I did. The result was inevitable. Had I known the banking had been increased since the earlier races (which I thought even then was too high) I never would have stopped on the channel at all.
Since then I've been lurking more seriously at different forums to get a better idea of where things are really moving. I agree with those who say that Randy Bernard was marketing primarily to people watch to see crashes. It is pretty obvious from his comments (and what do expect when you get someone who previously marketed bull riding?). The decisions leading up to LVMS were unimaginable. But despite that, it seems that there was one earlier that was perhaps even more unthinkable (the subject of the title of my post):
DID THE IRL REALLY RESTART AN OVAL RACE IN THE RAIN??????
It is difficult to express my disgust and disappointment. I didn't realize how much I was looking forward to the new direction I thought the sport was moving until I learned it was nothing more than an illusion. The new leaders are just as incompetent and damaging to the sport as Tony George. I didn't think it possible.
Sorry, I just had to express my anguish somewhere. The sport is dead, and I feel that a part of my life is gone and never to return.
I'll go away now.
TravelGal
10-23-11, 01:01 AM
Don't go away, Artemus. Stay. You're among friends here and obviously a clear thinker.
If you're on Facebook, you might want to look at and "like"
Demand an Independent, Unbiased Investigation into the Dan Wheldon Crash. Very well written there by CJ.
Demand an Independent, Unbiased Investigation into the Dan Wheldon Crash. Very well written there by CJ.
You mean, by not having American racing legends like Mario Andretti & AJ Foyt involved? But, why not? Oh, because they are on the series payroll and therefore slightly biased? :irked:
Napoleon
10-23-11, 07:15 AM
If you're on Facebook, you might want to look at and "like"
Demand an Independent, Unbiased Investigation into the Dan Wheldon Crash. Very well written there by CJ.
Link? I can not find it.
Thanks.
BarillaGirl
10-23-11, 08:57 AM
Link? I can not find it.
Thanks.
Here you go.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Demand-an-Independent-Unbiased-Investigation-into-the-Dan-Wheldon-Crash/287129534645032
Thanks for posting Artemus
Most of us have felt the same way for sixteen years.
We talk about BBQ sometimes!
Ziggy
SurfaceUnits
10-23-11, 12:30 PM
Its easy to see how pagoda worshippers get confused: when CART was in charge, Indycar was flying high; when IMS is in charge,Indycars are flying high :tony:
It is difficult to express my disgust and disappointment. I didn't realize how much I was looking forward to the new direction I thought the sport was moving until I learned it was nothing more than an illusion. The new leaders are just as incompetent and damaging to the sport as Tony George. I didn't think it possible.
Ha ha, you got "Hulmanized". :\
The years of over-promise and under-deliver are gone. They don't even pretend to promise anymore.
Yeah, we might get 3 engines, might get aero kits, might get ...
Also, I really don't think that they have new leaders in place. I think Randy is trying, I really do, but with the whole thing still being funded/controlled by the HG's, we got what we've always had, just with a new mouthpiece.
Stick around for the laughs.
Artemus
10-23-11, 01:56 PM
We talk about BBQ sometimes!
Ziggy
Well, in that case, I had BBQ yesterday! I took my widowed mother out to lunch, and then we went to see my widowed grandmother, whom, although a rather chipper 102 years old, probably wouldn't be able to handle BBQ. But that gives me a great idea! Gramms gave up all driving ten years ago. Why not get her in one of the new cars at TMS??? That would draw the fans in!
OK, a bit back on topic. I saw video of the new cars testing. What is the purpose of air boxes with turbo engines? Isn't that just pointless (and perhaps destablizing) drag?
Artemus
10-23-11, 02:12 PM
Also, I really don't think that they have new leaders in place. I think Randy is trying, I really do, but with the whole thing still being funded/controlled by the HG's, we got what we've always had, just with a new mouthpiece.
I think RB is trying and is very sincere. I just think he is in way over his head and it is only going to get worse. Why can't they understand:
CART formula: Worked
IRL formula: Didn't
People don't go to NBA or NFL games because teams from local pickup games come in and have just as much a chance to win as the seasoned veterans. Why would that work for racing?
Stick around for the laughs.
You know, lurking at TrackForum this past week has been illuminating. The denial of the problems by the few remaining loyalists is quite ironic. But unfortunately, people tend to die or be permanently maimed when incompetents are at the helm. The oval trim for the new car seems to be designed to create pack racing (550 HP on high banks???). I'm not sure I can stomach anything to do with it.
Hi Artemus, we must twins. I could have posted what you posted; I think I did somewhere in the last week, LOL!
I miss this, but the IRL just isn't worth the trouble.
Mary
Rocketdoc
10-23-11, 03:42 PM
"What is the purpose of air boxes with turbo engines? Isn't that just pointless (and perhaps destablizing) drag?"
It's because we had them on the current *****box and we would never imply that
we were wrong or to imply that the IMS is capable of original sin.
I remember early on in the split reading an analysis of the aero effect of the IRL airbox as a car began to yaw. In essence the airbox tended to cause the rear wing to stall more quickly thus making the crapwagon less recoverable once a spin had begun.
It also makes sense to me that like an airfoil, the taller the body, the more the car should tend to lift when travelling at speed sideways.
MorAns.
Racing Truth
10-23-11, 07:11 PM
"What is the purpose of air boxes with turbo engines? Isn't that just pointless (and perhaps destablizing) drag?"
It's because we had them on the current *****box and we would never imply that
we were wrong or to imply that the IMS is capable of original sin.
I still don't fully get the reasoning (something about getting enough air to this gen. of turbos), but I'm pretty sure that ISN'T it.
Why? Well, the original unveiling of the "concept" was roll-hoop only. H=ll, the new logo has a roll hoop. That was the plan, I think.
Why did it change? Ask Cotman, who seems intent on it.
Cotman, Al Jr and Barnfart needs to be 86'd. Shred them old crapwagons nad dig a pit and bury all of it..in the name of Wheldon. Moth ball it all until it's riught. That should have happened in 2003, do it now, tjhey have the chance.
According to Dallara, the 2012 car won't take off like the crap boxes did. Zanardi said that the cause of the crash wasn't the speeds or the track, but the fact that they are so easy to drive. He spoke about the CART days racing at 240+ in 90's as example. If these cars weren't so easy to drive, all 34 drives wouldn't be so close together. This was in this week's Autosprint.
Dallarah is soooooooo trustworthy
they had 8K aerokits as well, correct????????
Rocketdoc
10-25-11, 03:23 PM
I remember early on in the split reading an analysis of the aero effect of the IRL airbox as a car began to yaw. In essence the airbox tended to cause the rear wing to stall more quickly thus making the crapwagon less recoverable once a spin had begun.
It also makes sense to me that like an airfoil, the taller the body, the more the car should tend to lift when travelling at speed sideways.
MorAns.
When the car yaws, the outsized air-box immediately moves the lateral center of pressure up and back, and produces a roll moment that can present the under-body to the oncoming airflow.
indyfan31
10-25-11, 07:44 PM
When the car yaws, the outsized air-box immediately moves the lateral center of pressure up and back, and produces a roll moment that can present the under-body to the oncoming airflow.
strangely enough, I understood every word of that, AND it made sense too. :thumbup:
Andrew Longman
10-26-11, 01:51 AM
strangely enough, I understood every word of that, AND it made sense too. :thumbup:yup too.
opinionated ow
10-26-11, 04:45 AM
Dallarah is soooooooo trustworthy
they had 8K aerokits as well, correct????????
Nothing else they produce flies, and that list includes Formula 3, GP3, GP2, A1GP, Sportscars, last years HRT
racer2c
10-26-11, 08:47 AM
Nothing else they produce flies, and that list includes Formula 3, GP3, GP2, A1GP, Sportscars, last years HRT
None of those reach 220mph .
According to Dallara, the 2012 car won't take off like the crap boxes did. Zanardi said that the cause of the crash wasn't the speeds or the track, but the fact that they are so easy to drive. He spoke about the CART days racing at 240+ in 90's as example. If these cars weren't so easy to drive, all 34 drives wouldn't be so close together. This was in this week's Autosprint.
Autosport Link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95688)
... when you race for five minutes with your rival right next to your side, at the point that you notice if his sponsor stickers are not straight, when it's too easy do drive even on the outside line...
SurfaceUnits
10-27-11, 03:08 PM
they rilly wanted to be nascar, in every aspect
If I understand Alex and I can paraphrase... he says:
It is the car..... its the car.... the car.... it is the car.... and, finally, it is the car.
Sounds like a post I read somewhere...
SurfaceUnits
10-27-11, 05:01 PM
None of those race in packs on NASCAR ovals.
fixxered
Artemus
10-27-11, 10:04 PM
Autosport Link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95688)
I'm glad Zanardi said something about the Hanford-device races being artificial "entertainment". Repetitive meaningless passes is not "great racing". But Robin Miller has been saying that is what would save the sport.
I never understood the appeal of pack racing in the first place, either. I was at TMS (in 2000, I believe) at the first IRL pack race, and I thought it was quite boring. It was obvious that no one was going to get around anyone else. I got back to Speednet to read that it was "the greatest race ever". Go figure.
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