New car time redux

[WickerBill]

Two cars, both paid off, and daughter going to need a car in the summer. So she gets mine... and I quite seriously have a different thought every day on what I want to buy. Needs to seat my family of five, get reasonable gas mileage, and if it's new, it probably needs to be domestic. What I want is plenty of horsepower, great audio/tech gadgets, super-quiet cabin, and either bang-on reliable or a monster warranty. I've considered:

3-4 year old Mercedes C class
2012 Taurus
2012 Edge
2012 Regal GS
1-2 year old Acura TSX
1-3 year old Infiniti G37

So that should give you an idea of my price range, too. Any suggestions on the domestic front? Any suggestions at all?

[KLang]

I wouldn't want to be one of the three in the back seat of the Mercedes, Acura or Infinity you have listed. Both the Acura and Infinity are nice cars though. Never been impressed with the C class Mercedes. Almost wrecked one on a test drive because the thing had no giddyup.

BMW 5 series coming off lease perhaps?

Only domestic brand I would consider is Ford for reasons not appropriate here. ;)

[Methanolandbrats]

EVO, no other choice if you want to haul five people quickly. Just buy one.

[nissan gtp]

Caddy ? Or are the good ones too pricey ?

Hyundai Genesis looks pretty nice as well

[nrc]

I don't like the beak on the front of the Acura. YMMV. You've been eyeing that C class for a while but I can't vouch for how trouble free those are or how much the bill might be if something breaks. If you're looking for a hassle-free ownership experience it's tough to beat new.

Drive the Taurus, the Regal, the Edge - maybe the Mazda CX9 and Lincoln MKZ. What makes you happy when you're sitting behind the wheel?

[dando]

I don't like the beak on the front of the Acura. YMMV. You've been eyeing that C class for a while but I can't vouch for how trouble free those are or how much the bill might be if something breaks. If you're looking for a hassle-free ownership experience it's tough to beat new.

Drive the Taurus, the Regal, the Edge - maybe the Mazda CX9 and Lincoln MKZ. What makes you happy when you're sitting behind the wheel?

Assuming Merc repairs are similar to my Bimmer repair costs, run, do not walk away from the Merc. MAG has been killing me on repairs the past coupe of years to the tune of ~$5K for suspension work, replacing hoses, radiator, etc. I concur on the Taurus and Edge, and I have a neighbor with the Infy and he likes it. It's decent ride from my limited experience in it trekking to BWs, etc. w/him.

-Kevin

[Methanolandbrats]

Taurus and Edge do not equal "plenty" of horsepower. Go drive an EVO, huge backseat, scary fast and bulletproof reliable. The things I've seen done to those cars in the club I belong to still make me cringe. And not ONE failure after two seasons of redline clutch drops autocrossing, drag racing every weekend, rallycross on in rough courses that tore the wheels off of several other cars, etc. Awesome ride. And cheap Mercedes C Class = Crap Class.

[cameraman]

You really should consider a Subaru. My 1995 Outback has just had it's first annoying breakdown, the windshield washer pump has failed. It has also spent all those years outdoors, buried in snow, ice & salt in the winter and baked in the high mountain sun all summer and it has no rust anywhere.

[Lux Interior]

Everyone I know who has a Taurus, and that is probably 6 people,. say it is an awesome car. They all love it.

[WickerBill]

Thanks guys, keep it up. The Edge is super unlikely, but I do like the interior space every once in awhile. Since my other car is an Outlook, I can probably get past that requirement. But Ford is always putting their newest tech in the Edge for some reason, and I'm a geek... however, the 2012 (2013? Whatever they're calling it) Taurus will have the new MyFord Touch and new Sync, and will supposedly have 299hp (plenty? I'll have to drive it to know), and is living room quiet inside.

The Lincoln MKZ is an interesting thought, Boss -- I checked it out and really like the interior, but I wish it had Touch and I wish it looked better on the outside (I think it looked a little better in 2009 than it does today). Also looked at Caddys... hmm... you guys obviously believe OC when it tells you I'm 109 years old on my birthday :)

[JohnHKart]

New 2012 Malibu coming has great gas mileage and how bout the Fusion? Ford Focus ST looks real good but that's not coming till late 2012 say Ford. I drove the 2011 Malibu at a Chevy test drive day in Irvine last March and it like the other Chevy's I drove that day handled good and had a nice interior. I'm a Ford guy but I liked all the Chevy's I tried that day. (Equinox, Cruze, Malibu, Vette, Camaro, Volt).

[Spicoli]

New Jeep Grand Cherokee. Runs over Subarus and eats Taruses. heard the new Explorer was fun too.

[grungex]

I figured I'd tag onto this thread, but feel free to break it off if desired.

I just found out I'm losing my company car April 1st, and have to find a replacement. Passenger capacity is unimportant, but I do carry a fair amount of stuff (my job is in field service). My current company car is a Taurus X (basically a station wagon), which I like. I may even buy it if the offering price is right, but if it's not I need to start looking, hard.

Priorities are price, reliability and decent insurance costs. Gas mileage is somewhat important, but the 20+ I'm getting now will be acceptable. Since this will be my only DD, fun would be a nice bonus. I'd prefer something a couple of years old rather than new, but am hesitant regarding reliability. Current usage is around 15k/yr, mostly metro, but that could increase. Thoughts?

[Spicoli]

I figured I'd tag onto this thread, but feel free to break it off if desired.

I just found out I'm losing my company car April 1st, and have to find a replacement. Passenger capacity is unimportant, but I do carry a fair amount of stuff (my job is in field service). My current company car is a Taurus X (basically a station wagon), which I like. I may even buy it if the offering price is right, but if it's not I need to start looking, hard.

Priorities are price, reliability and decent insurance costs. Gas mileage is somewhat important, but the 20+ I'm getting now will be acceptable. Since this will be my only DD, fun would be a nice bonus. I'd prefer something a couple of years old rather than new, but am hesitant regarding reliability. Current usage is around 15k/yr, mostly metro, but that could increase. Thoughts?

yeah. get a new job.

[WickerBill]

Problem is the used car market is still insane post-cashforclunkers. You may want to reconsider new...

[grungex]

yeah. get a new job.

I might not have a choice... :(

[grungex]

How about a Mini?

[Methanolandbrats]

I figured I'd tag onto this thread, but feel free to break it off if desired.

I just found out I'm losing my company car April 1st, and have to find a replacement. Passenger capacity is unimportant, but I do carry a fair amount of stuff (my job is in field service). My current company car is a Taurus X (basically a station wagon), which I like. I may even buy it if the offering price is right, but if it's not I need to start looking, hard.

Priorities are price, reliability and decent insurance costs. Gas mileage is somewhat important, but the 20+ I'm getting now will be acceptable. Since this will be my only DD, fun would be a nice bonus. I'd prefer something a couple of years old rather than new, but am hesitant regarding reliability. Current usage is around 15k/yr, mostly metro, but that could increase. Thoughts?

Jetta Sportwagen TDI.

[Spicoli]

How about a Mini?

My view is its a love it or hate it thing. I don't like small cars, so....but I hear those who have them swear by them. Axe Ziggy.

[grungex]

My other car makes the Mini look huge, so no biggie there.


Jetta Sportwagen TDI.

I love the idea of the TDI, but I've heard horror stories about VW service.

[nrc]

Coopers are great fun for an DD. Space is minimal but a regular hardtop will carry a fair amount with the seats down and the Clubman a bit more. I find the rear doors on the Clubman really nice for loading and unloading.

Our MINIs have been pretty reliable but maintenance costs are somewhat high once the free maintenance runs out.

The Mazda 3 is another small car that drives nicely but has a fair amount of space.

[Duroc]

I love the idea of the TDI, but I've heard horror stories about VW service.

The chain driving the balance shaft came apart - basically had to rebuild the entire bottom end and replace the turbo. This was after they changed to a geared assembly but did as little as possible to tell anyone in the US including their stealerships.

Stay FAR FAR away from VW. :thumdown:

[grungex]

Mazda 3 did cross my mind, but I'm not sure I can get past the utter hideousity of the redesigned front. Ack! My buddy has an earlier one and loves it.

Can the rear seats in the standard Mini come out altogether?

[Methanolandbrats]

The chain driving the balance shaft came apart - basically had to rebuild the entire bottom end and replace the turbo. This was after they changed to a geared assembly but did as little as possible to tell anyone in the US including their stealerships.

Stay FAR FAR away from VW. :thumdown:

You had a B5.5 Passat TDI. The balance shaft was a bad design. For $1000 you can fix it while in there doing the timing belt. Did you keep driving it after it got noisy? BTW the current 2.0 common rail TDI has nothing to do with that motor/chassis.

[Al Czervik]

Mazda 3 did cross my mind, but I'm not sure I can get past the utter hideousity of the redesigned front. Ack! My buddy has an earlier one and loves it.

Can the rear seats in the standard Mini come out altogether?

Can the rear seats in the standard Mini come out?





<never miss an Airplane! opportunity>

[Duroc]

You had a B5.5 Passat TDI. The balance shaft was a bad design. For $1000 you can fix it while in there doing the timing belt. Did you keep driving it after it got noisy? BTW the current 2.0 common rail TDI has nothing to do with that motor/chassis.


I know what the problem was.

Quit rationalizing.

The car, the customer service and the company are garbage.

[Methanolandbrats]

I know what the problem was.

Quit rationalizing.

The car, the customer service and the company are garbage.

I drive a TDI with 189,000 miles on it. I have an 84 GTI with 152,000 on it. An 88 Golf with 252,000, a 2007 Jetta with 65,000. Never been stranded once in 30 years. I expect my garbage to cause big problems at any minute :D All cars have flaws that need to be addressed, too bad you got whacked. :(

[Lux Interior]

Grungex check out the Nissan Rogue. Base model comes with all wheel drive.

[Spicoli]

I drive a TDI with 189,000 miles on it. I have an 84 GTI with 152,000 on it. An 88 Golf with 252,000, a 2007 Jetta with 65,000. Never been stranded once in 30 years. I expect my garbage to cause big problems at any minute :D All cars have flaws that need to be addressed, too bad you got whacked. :(

http://www.aetv.com/hoarders/

[Spicoli]

Grungex check out the Nissan Rogue. Base model comes with all wheel drive.

:rofl: only you biffy....

[Gnam]

Would you consider a minivan/miata combo?
Lots of space during the week and ability to play on the weekend.

I hear a Pontiac G8 is a lot of fun, if you don't mind driving a dead badge.

The Chrysler 300 has never been accused of being nimble, but it's roomy.
Rear leg room is 40.2". You would need the V8 though. The V6 only has 180hp.

There are lots of 4-door pickup trucks that will haul 5 people and have lots of power. You could even get a diesel.

But if you want a high tech sedan that seats five and has some power, I would look at a used Lexus ES 350.

[grungex]

Would you consider a minivan/miata combo?

Are you suggesting this to WB, or me? And do you mean two cars? :confused:


Grungex check out the Nissan Rogue. Base model comes with all wheel drive.

Umm, no. Fugly, and I don't feel that AWD is really that necessary around here. Keep 'em coming, though the Mini or Clubman is starting to pull ahead...

[Methanolandbrats]

http://www.aetv.com/hoarders/

:D not really, wife car, my car, autocross car, rallycross and ice racing beater. They have their uses.

[nrc]

Can the rear seats in the standard Mini come out?

Not without tools, but there are rear seat delete kits available on the Interwebs.

[cameraman]

Here ya go. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Niki-Laudas-1974-Ferrari-312-B3-/300633805196?pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item45ff2bd18c#v4-40) It is used but in really good shape.

[Methanolandbrats]

Here ya go. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Niki-Laudas-1974-Ferrari-312-B3-/300633805196?pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item45ff2bd18c#v4-40) It is used but in really good shape.

How much cargo room? Are parts expensive?

[Gnam]

Are you suggesting this to WB, or me? And do you mean two cars? :confused:

That was for WB, and yes two cars.

For you, I would recommend a Ford Transit Connect. You would have to be serious about no passengers though.

I also like the look of the Honda Element SC, but with 166 hp it probably doesn't move very fast, and it would feel underpowered compared to the Taurus X with 260 hp.

If you like the Taurus, the Ford Flex is almost identical.
The Flex is 1.5" longer, 1" wider, 1/2" taller. They have the same engine and transmission, and the Flex is available in AWD. The Flex weighs 440 lbs more, but also has 4 cu.ft more cargo room. 2009 was the first model year for the Flex, and one with 50k miles is going for around $20k.

[gjc2]

That was for WB, and yes two cars.

For you, I would recommend a Ford Transit Connect. You would have to be serious about no passengers though.

I find the seats in the Transit Connect to be very uncomfortable. The seat cushion is a bit short and are too hard.

[nrc]

Oh, another one for WB - Volvo S60 or S80. Not sure about the state of the company but I like the interiors.

[grungex]

For you, I would recommend a Ford Transit Connect. You would have to be serious about no passengers though.

I also like the look of the Honda Element SC, but with 166 hp it probably doesn't move very fast, and it would feel underpowered compared to the Taurus X with 260 hp.

If you like the Taurus, the Ford Flex is almost identical.
The Flex is 1.5" longer, 1" wider, 1/2" taller. They have the same engine and transmission, and the Flex is available in AWD. The Flex weighs 440 lbs more, but also has 4 cu.ft more cargo room. 2009 was the first model year for the Flex, and one with 50k miles is going for around $20k.

I'm pretty sure the Flex is a heck of a lot bigger than the Taurus, and that 440 lbs is not going to help mileage or performance. It succeeded the X as our company wagon for one buying cycle, until the PTB decided it was too expensive. I thought they would go for the Transit in its place, but they ended up reverting to the 4-cylinder Escape. The Transit probably won't fit under the racecar project currently residing on the two-post lift, so that's out.

Element is fugly, too. I liked the first-gen Scion xB, but now it looks like a bus that rear-ended a Camry. I really was still leaning towards a Mini of some sort, but today I found out that it uses premium fuel (not that they reveal it anywhere whatsoever :thumdown: :flame:). Is it a deal-killer? Ugh.

On the bright side, I was able to get them to pay for a new set of tires for the X today, so if I do end up buying it that's one less maintenance item to worry about.

[Gnam]

2010 Ford Flex
Length: 201.8"
Wheelbase: 117.9"
MPG: 17/24
http://autos.yahoo.com/ford/flex/2011/se-fwd/specifications.html

2009 Taurus X
Length: 200.3"
wheelbase: 112.9"
MPG: 17/24
http://autos.yahoo.com/ford/taurus-x/2009/limited-fwd/specifications.html

why would Yahoo Autos lie? ;)


Something different then, but still simular...

Chevrolet HHR 2LT with a 2.4L, I4, 172 hp engine. It weighs about 800 lbs less than the Taurus, is 2 feet shorter overall, and the roof is 4.5" lower. The HHR gets 22/32 mpg on 87 octane giving it a range of 400 miles on its 16 gallon tank. But the HHR is 6" narrower, and the rear passengers don't have as much room as they do in the Taurus. Also, the wheel base is 103.5", almost 9.5" shorter than the Taurus, but comparable to a Mini Countryman at 102.2". http://autos.yahoo.com/chevrolet/hhr/2011/2lt/specifications.html


Ford Focus 5-door hatchback with a 2.0L, I4, 160 hp engine is smaller still. It's 4.5" shorter than the HHR, and the roof is 5.4" lower. However, since the wheels on the Focus are pushed to the corners, the wheelbase is 1" longer than the HHR. The Focus is also wider, which allows for more interior room. But the shorter length really cuts into rear legroom. In the Taurus & HHR, rear leg room is about 40". In the Focus, it's only 33.2". Good for kids and short rides for adults.

[grungex]

Thanks for the info!

Too many freaking choices, this is going to drive me nuts.

Speaking of Fords, do their partner discount codes and/or employee discounts really make much difference? We have a corporate code, and my neighbor's son works at a dealership.

[Lux Interior]

:rofl: only you biffy....

It's just good for hauling stuff around. I like the mini way better but it is small - really small. I've ridden in one. Very zippy though.

[RaceGrrl]

Thanks for the info!

Too many freaking choices, this is going to drive me nuts.

Speaking of Fords, do their partner discount codes and/or employee discounts really make much difference? We have a corporate code, and my neighbor's son works at a dealership.


I really like my Clubman S and as Richard said, the barn-door style boot doors are really great for loading and unloading. Before we bought the car, I took the plastic bins I carry for sales events to the dealership to try to fit them in the Clubman. It mostly works, but if I put the seats down, there's actually less room than leaving them up and using two different sizes of bins. It's a fine point, I guess, but it makes a difference when you haul stuff all the time. I've got it figured out now, but it's like 3D Tetris trying to load in before a big event. Lots of fun to drive, though.

[WickerBill]

How far do the seats go back in the Clubman? Would my knees be up in my throat? I'm 6f4i...

[dando]

How far do the seats go back in the Clubman? Would my knees be up in my throat? I'm 6f4i...

Dude.

tAPk9KZbdAE

:gomer: :D

-Kevin

[Gnam]

A solution for both youse guys: Nissan Altima.
Sedan for WB, coupe for grungex:

* Each comes with a 2.5L, 170hp, I4 OR a 3.5L, 270hp, V6.
* Transmission is a 6-speed manual or a CVT.
* Both weigh between 3000-3300 lbs depending on trim level, engine, and transmission.
* MPG for the I4 is 23/31, and 20/27 for the V6
* Both have a technology package with gadgets and do-dads (push button ignition, RearView camera, Dual zone climate controls, etc)
* 4 wheel disc brakes standard w/ ABS

[WickerBill]

Gnam, that's interesting... I had one as a rental a couple years ago and liked it a lot.

Anyone have any experience with Subaru Legacy?

[Methanolandbrats]

Anyone have any experience with Subaru Legacy?

Agricultural appliance. Horrible fuel mileage. Interior sucks. Default lesbian hauler.

[Indy]

I thought the Outback was the default lesbian hauler. :rofl:

I sat in a Fiat 500 last night. Not an Abarth, but still pretty impressive. I find that car more interesting than the Mini, and at $17,000 or so it is much more reasonably priced.

[Methanolandbrats]

I thought the Outback was the default lesbian hauler. :rofl:

.

I stnad corrected. The Outback it is. The Legacy is for families where one or more of the parents are in the closet.

[nrc]

I thought the Outback was the default lesbian hauler. :rofl:

Maybe the Legacy is for the ones who wear lipstick.


I sat in a Fiat 500 last night. Not an Abarth, but still pretty impressive. I find that car more interesting than the Mini, and at $17,000 or so it is much more reasonably priced.

To each his own, I suppose. I sat in the Fiat at the auto show a while back and the materials, fit, and finish didn't seem on par to me. I did like the funky interior but it kind of reminded me of a Renault Alliance. Not sure why.

I'd still like the opportunity to drive one.

[RaceGrrl]

How far do the seats go back in the Clubman? Would my knees be up in my throat? I'm 6f4i...

I'm not sure, but I have long legs and when the seats are all the way back I can barely reach the pedals, but that means no legroom in the back... Seat height is is adjustable, so head room shouldn't be a problem.

[grungex]

Anyone have any experience with Subaru Legacy?


One of my friends has one -- an '07-08? Seems like a nice car, but he's been having some problems with it lately, so I'm starting to wonder about the reliability.

[Napoleon]

I thought the Outback was the default lesbian hauler. :rofl:

I sat in a Fiat 500 last night. Not an Abarth, but still pretty impressive.

I got to drive a regular 500 and really liked it. If I was in the market it would be near the top of my list.

[WickerBill]

Agricultural appliance. Horrible fuel mileage. Interior sucks. Default lesbian hauler.

Acknowledged and understood, sir.

[Napoleon]

Problem is the used car market is still insane post-cashforclunkers. You may want to reconsider new...

Aging Cars

The average age of cars and light trucks on the road today has risen to 10.6 years, Jenny Lin, senior U.S. economist at Dearborn, Michigan-based Ford Motor Co., said on a Dec. 1 conference call. That’s above the seven-to-7.5 years Ballew says is the long-term average.

“We are going to see more and more of this pent-up demand realized,” Lin told analysts and reporters.
(http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-21/bernanke-money-policy-seen-achieving-goal-as-savers-become-consumers-again.html)

[Methanolandbrats]

Aging Cars

The average age of cars and light trucks on the road today has risen to 10.6 years, Jenny Lin, senior U.S. economist at Dearborn, Michigan-based Ford Motor Co., said on a Dec. 1 conference call. That’s above the seven-to-7.5 years Ballew says is the long-term average.

“We are going to see more and more of this pent-up demand realized,” Lin told analysts and reporters.
(http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-21/bernanke-money-policy-seen-achieving-goal-as-savers-become-consumers-again.html)

I guess I'm not average. I drive 15, 24 and 28 year old VWs, all maintained and tight. The only pent up demand I have is for a Corvette or a Cayman, but I can't quite swing the cash :D

[G.]

It pains me to write this, but you should really check out a Hyundai. 10 yr/100k miles warranty.

I may get another one.

Gas mileage on the Veracruz is not good (18), but I love it. Of course, it replaced the Lesbaru Outback, so maybe that explains why I love it. :)

[WickerBill]

I like the looks of the Kia Optima.

Did I just write that out loud?


Any experience there?

[Don Quixote]

I like the looks of the Kia Optima.

Did I just write that out loud?


Any experience there?Drove rentals several times, and really liked it. Definitely worth a test drive. :thumbup:

[nrc]

I think the Kia Optima and Forte are pretty handsome vehicles. We had a Forte rental on vacation and it wasn't a bad little transportation appliance. Nicely appointed and fairly well screwed together.

[Indy]

I like the looks of the Kia Optima.

Did I just write that out loud?


Any experience there?

Checked one out at the dealership. Didn't drive it because I was there to try their minivan :shakehead but it appeared to be a very nice car.

[WickerBill]

That 2013 Ford Fusion might just be the one. What do you folks think about buying a car the first year after a redesign?

[SteveH]

Just a sheet metal change, right?

[devilmaster]

That 2013 Ford Fusion might just be the one. What do you folks think about buying a car the first year after a redesign?

Just ensure that if you do, go for a car built after christmas holidays. By then, if there were any auto line issues, they've more than likely been worked out.

[WickerBill]

Just a sheet metal change, right?

No, everything is different. New platform, wheelbase, motors, sheet metal.

[WickerBill]

Just ensure that if you do, go for a car built after christmas holidays. By then, if there were any auto line issues, they've more than likely been worked out.

Comes out in June. So you're saying wait 10+ months eh?

[Methanolandbrats]

New Subie Impreza five door is a nice vehicle. Upgraded interior gets rid of the horrible plastic and seats, more rear legroom, great mileage (especially for an AWD) car and with the rear seat up it hauls 22 cubic ft of stuff. I'm gonna test drive one.

[devilmaster]

Comes out in June. So you're saying wait 10+ months eh?

Yes. My experience on the line has always been (albeit its Chrysler) that line issues are usually jury rigged until the first major downtime which is usually the christmas holidays.

My first job on the line, my first day hired, I was shoehorned in between 2 jobs on the trim line to do one simple task with door rubbers that they couldn't place anywhere else. The Ram Van had just gone under a major redesign, and a whole bunch of new people were hired to ensure the line kept moving. Some of the new hires started out in the lot after assembly to install or fix parts that hadn't found a spot on the line.

Whether a major redo or not, it was always coming back from xmas holidays where it seemed the line would finally flow right. And if I'm honest, if one wants to up odds of getting a vehicle without major assembly issues, always buy at the end of the model year, preferably not a friday build, and never ever ever get one on the last day before a major vacation.

And I also worked at the Minivan plant which is of course a much more in demand vehicle. And the issues are the same.

[nrc]

We've had three first model year cars. A Ford Contour, the RX8, and my current MINI. I'd say that each of them have had a few more glitches than our other, non-first year cars, but most of them have just been service bulletins that were just fixed during a routine maintenance visit (ie, no breakdowns). The RX8 did require one service that took a couple of days with a loaner provided.

I don't regret any of those purchases although I'd have to say that the RX8 issues discouraged me from thinking more seriously about buying out the lease.

[Insomniac]

That 2013 Ford Fusion might just be the one. What do you folks think about buying a car the first year after a redesign?

Seems like their are less worries now given cars are made a lot better and warranties are better.

[chop456]

Had a first year Civic and a [very] first year Altima and both were bulletproof.