St. Pete thread [Archive] - Page 2

Methanolandbrats

03-28-12, 02:19 PM

I'm less on the "give it a chance to be great" fence and more on the "it is what it is, this is what we have, so why are we going over the same thing again and again."

Did TG screw up open wheel? Yes
Is it ever gonna go back to 1995? No
Does the "money is no object" formula work? No, look at Can-Am, or Sportscars even before the GA/ALMS split. Who else? How about Trans Am, DTM, GT1, etc, series that brought in big numbers at some points. Even F1 was looking a bit ragged for a while. It doesn't work.
Heck, is money anywhere near as available now than in 1995? No, once Tobacco got whacked it go damn hard for a lot of people.

No one has any doubt that TG screwed the pooch, but its done and over with, you can't change history. So the organizers are stuck with TG's mess, they need to put cars on track that are "safe" based on current safety standards, they do not want street parades which is what events like Monaco and Long Beach really end up as. Times are different... 1995 was 17 years ago. People since have shorter attention spans and have lived on a diet of NASCAR in that time period until now. They are trying to pull in fans that are part of a generation that plays Angry Birds instead of Super Mario, and has conversations at 160 characters. Hell having a beeper was a luxury back then, let alone a cellphone!

Lets face it hardcore fans like us don't pay the bills, and as I said 17 years is a LONG time, people die, things change, heck only ONE driver from 1995 (Paul Tracy) is even semi active as a driver in the sport, and only four teams (Penske, Ganassi, Coyne, and Foyt). Many of today's fans don't even remember anything but the previous crapwagons.

Its easy to Monday morning quarterback, but these guys are not TG, some of them are good at what they do (heck we were all Tony Cotman fans, then he went over and did some things we didn't like all of a sudden he sucks), and they have to provide a balance between trying to get new fans and retain old ones. Its not going to change the way we all want it to, its over.

So now we have a choice, we can continue to sit here and cry about it or we can say "well theres nothing I can do about it, but its better than nothing" because thats the option here, nothing. I can tell some of you would say "well then nothing is a good idea". I don't agree with that and I'm sure some of you would join me. I love racing, I race anything with wheels on it. I would race covered wagons if that was the option vs nothing.

Its still racing, and they are doing what they can to make it less contrived (too bad it took a drivers death to force that one on), and allow some freedom. They have 3 engine manufacturers which is the first time in many years (remember Champ Car was a spec series for the last 5 years and was planned to continue to be with the DP-01's whether you want to agree with it or not), and next year the option of 4 different aero packages to give the cars some identity, and who knows hopefully look better. Thats just about the best compromise before it becomes a money race like it was and the chances of anyone but Penske, Ganassi, or N/H winning a race were slim to none no matter how talented the driver. Forsythe was no super team, but once 3/4 of the top flight competition was gone they became quite competitive.

The series has some drivers we like (Will Power, Oriol Servia, Justin Wilson, Sebastian Bourdais, etc) that I would rather see in "top flight" open wheel rides than hopping into the occasional cab or begging for a sportscar ride. I mean really, we all know what everyone here wants, we have been whining about it since the unification in 2008.

Its not going to happen, get over it, and get on with your life. You can either choose to enjoy racing which is what this still is, or you can continue to feel angry and betrayed and give yourself agita over something you can't change or control. 17 years is a long time... heck 5 years (since Champ Car merged) is a long time. Its a sport, not your religion.

Add these ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and you will have arrived :gomer:

gerhard911

03-28-12, 02:23 PM

I don't think anyone here expects conversions.

Several of the posts in this thread indicate otherwise...

stroker

03-28-12, 02:36 PM

God grant me the serenity
to accept the cars I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

FTFY

God grant me the serenity
to accept the crapwagons I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Don Quixote

03-28-12, 02:52 PM

I'm not converted.

+1

Rogue Leader

03-28-12, 04:26 PM

I'm not converted.

I don't think anyone here expects conversions.

I don't expect anyone to convert. Just understand where some of us are coming from who really think all the effort and continuous whining about it is wasted energy that could be put into better things. Its the way it is, either watch it or give up already. 17 years have passed.... get over it.

Add these ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and you will have arrived :gomer:

Thats almost insulting. The day I'm that guy is the day I should surely take a swan dive off the empire state building. All is not ok, and I never said it was. But it is how it is and we can't change it, and making the same arguments about it over and over isn't doing anything productive.

Wheel-Nut

03-28-12, 04:54 PM

All that hate's gonna burn you up, kid.

It keeps me warm.

Methanolandbrats

03-28-12, 07:15 PM

I don't expect anyone to convert. Just understand where some of us are coming from who really think all the effort and continuous whining about it is wasted energy that could be put into better things. Its the way it is, either watch it or give up already. 17 years have passed.... get over it.

Thats almost insulting. The day I'm that guy is the day I should surely take a swan dive off the empire state building. All is not ok, and I never said it was. But it is how it is and we can't change it, and making the same arguments about it over and over isn't doing anything productive.

I am sorry I was almost insulting :D I am not angry about AOW, I am over it. I still follow it, not as a sport, but because I find the stupidity entertaining.

pfc_m_drake

03-28-12, 09:08 PM

All that hate's gonna burn you up, kid.

It keeps me warm.

I love that movie.
I wish MGM would sort out their bankruptcy situation so that they can release the remake.

NismoZ

03-28-12, 10:11 PM

Cool, that "epic" F-1 race got FIVE hits here, IndyCar gets 108 for a crappy one! How About THAT!?

RichK

03-28-12, 11:02 PM

Watching the race right now.

Was thinking of going to Long Beach this year, since turbos were back. Just now decided not to go. These cars sound twice as strangled as the DP-01, which sounded (at best) like a short-shifted CART car.

These things are even uglier than the pre-season photos indicated.

What an awful car.

Rogue Leader

03-28-12, 11:19 PM

I am sorry I was almost insulting :D I am not angry about AOW, I am over it. I still follow it, not as a sport, but because I find the stupidity entertaining.

Exactly the kind of response I was hoping to hear. And yes some of the stupidity is entertaining. But in the end I just want to see a product out there that is safe, entertaining, and good for the drivers as well, and is not NASCAR.

Gnam

03-29-12, 03:54 AM

I love that movie.
I wish MGM would sort out their bankruptcy situation so that they can release the remake.

That remake should stay buried. It will not translate. 30 years is a long time ago.

Here's an interview with one of the stars of the remake, Josh Hutcherson (who? ;)):

Your next big release is Red Dawn. Were you a fan of the original?

Yeah. My parents kind of grew up with that sort of movie. It came out when they were in high school, so it’s kind of more relevant to them than it was to me, but I watched it before I knew they were making a remake. I liked it. It’s one of those movies where, when it came out it was obviously much better than it is looking back on it, just because the standards for movies are much higher when it comes to characters and all that. Sometimes 80s movies just confuse me. Watching them all of a sudden, someone will just break down and start crying, and I’m like, ‘woah! Did I miss something?’, and sometimes the 80s speak is just hard for me to follow in movies. But yeah, it was just a fun movie to make.

By the time this guy was born, the prospect of WWIII no longer existed. The USSR was toast, and the US military had just demonstrated its supreme power in the 1st Gulf War. If the actors and audience have no concept of the fears that the original movie played on, how will it make any sense?

Nowadays when someone attacks America, you don't run for the hills with a gun. You live blog the action, taking photos with your iPhone while you wait for Seal Team 6 to take care of business.

Also, get of my lawn punk. :p

opinionated ow

03-29-12, 06:02 AM

I ain't converted either. They look like cack, they sound like cack and it's another spec series to the point where they've pretty much enforced equalisation measures on the only part that varies, the engine.

Rogue Leader

03-29-12, 07:45 AM

By the time this guy was born, the prospect of WWIII no longer existed. The USSR was toast, and the US military had just demonstrated its supreme power in the 1st Gulf War. If the actors and audience have no concept of the fears that the original movie played on, how will it make any sense?

Nowadays when someone attacks America, you don't run for the hills with a gun. You live blog the action, taking photos with your iPhone while you wait for Seal Team 6 to take care of business.

Also, get of my lawn punk. :p

That really is the scary thing about the younger generation. I (we) all grew up knowing that if something went wrong its very possible for the world to be kicking our ass. Now to them it seems like thats not the case when in reality its still very possible. It was different when there was this giant country that wanted to kill us. Instead now we have China, a giant country that could kill at least some of us, but in reality it never will because they like our money too much.

As I said in the above post about the series, times are much different these days.

Chief

03-29-12, 08:34 AM

As I said in the above post about the series, times are much different these days.
I like your optimism, but no matter how you slice it previous incarnations of this sport had something that enticed people to follow it. Driver talent pool ain't doing it, ugly car ain't doing it, sleek side-by-side 3 wide ain't doing it, ovals ain't doing it, Japan didn't do it, nor did Watkins Glen. They are swinging at air.

TV rating down 15% already. IMS introduced the 2012 Edsel....this is a free country still and I won't buy one, and they cant force me to buy it. NOW, what are ya gonna do? This one stupid assed evolution the Speedway has taken us through....and they deserve the freaky devolutionary mutations they have today.:laugh:

Rogue Leader

03-29-12, 09:36 AM

I like your optimism, but no matter how you slice it previous incarnations of this sport had something that enticed people to follow it. Driver talent pool ain't doing it, ugly car ain't doing it, sleek side-by-side 3 wide ain't doing it, ovals ain't doing it, Japan didn't do it, nor did Watkins Glen. They are swinging at air.

TV rating down 15% already. IMS introduced the 2012 Edsel....this is a free country still and I won't buy one, and they cant force me to buy it. NOW, what are ya gonna do? This one stupid assed evolution the Speedway has taken us through....and they deserve the freaky devolutionary mutations they have today.:laugh:

Well, it has only been one race so far, and I'm also not disputing the fact that the product up until now was barely even "good enough". I wouldn't go so far as to say they are swinging at air for this year until they get to at least Indy and find attendance down. St Pete isn't exactly a race people fly in from out of town for. Indy, Long Beach, Toronto, those are places with a rich history that would be better barometers.

Ziggy

03-29-12, 10:43 AM

Elmo T

03-29-12, 10:58 AM

Reading all these posts - It is like deja vu all over again. :laugh:

gerhard911

03-29-12, 11:22 AM

St Pete isn't exactly a race people fly in from out of town for.

A couple of friends and I did, once. Care to guess what year that was ?

High Sided

03-29-12, 11:57 AM

i know things were already very bad and i blame tony george as much as the rest of you but following this story from 95 when i first heard of cart and tony george. before that the 500 was just a solid american tradition i never gave much thought beyond memorial day. 1st trip to indy was 95 bump day because i wanted to see the cars and stars on the famous track. i endured a blistering hot day with no track activity until after i left. next visit was in 2001 to see the cart teams pounce. thanks to ziggy for his hospitality! back again in 02 to watch the sole cart team get robbed. for a brief moment i really felt indy watching paul reel in helio from turn 3 then around again and the most beautiful pass on the last lap, cart/irl i didn't care what i just watched was spectacular only to have every ounce of joy sucked out of me in a moment walking off the property being told what i saw wasn't true. after that for me american open wheel is just an amusing niche sport. back to my point, as bad as tony george was for the sport it seems to me that cart had every opportunity to capitalize and they were until the day they came out of left field forcing toyota to put a spacer on their cars. that to me is where cart and their non leadership truly drove the nail in the coffin of a once truly incredible sport known as champcar racing.

Rogue Leader

03-29-12, 12:36 PM

A couple of friends and I did, once. Care to guess what year that was ?

Earlier than 2005 I'm sure :tony:

well, it was a religion, a way of life.

and they screwed it up.

and when I see people say "yeah, but." I am here to remind them they don't know jack sheet about car racing

Cause buddy, the **** your watching, and cheerleading, ain't it.

Yes... they did... as I said 17 years ago. Get over it.

I'm not cheerleading, and if you don't like it you don't have to watch it. But its better than nothing, because that is the direction it was headed, and the jury is still out as to whether its still going there (but its not looking great).

Chief

03-29-12, 05:31 PM

Well, it has only been one race so far, and I'm also not disputing the fact that the product up until now was barely even "good enough". I wouldn't go so far as to say they are swinging at air for this year until they get to at least Indy and find attendance down. St Pete isn't exactly a race people fly in from out of town for. Indy, Long Beach, Toronto, those are places with a rich history that would be better barometers.

Ok, but final ratings are in St. Pete....0.9 rating. That's DOWN 25% from 1.3 in 2011, on ABC again. This is riding all the 2011 momentum complete with fencepost curiosity seekers and new Dullara design fans. Indycar is leading with it's best punch and getting KO'd before the bell rings for the introductions.

I do not subscribe to the "this is our breakout year" or "wait until Indy" philosophies. Then it'll be "wait until 2013 for the new bodykits".....life is WAY to short to wait for these idiots who wallow mediocrity. Plus, Indy Lights just got a new leader named "Tony George"....how long before this morAn gets his hands on the series and twists it in another idiotic direction? It's gonna happen...

Methanolandbrats

03-29-12, 05:54 PM

looks like the jury is not out anymore :gomer:

stroker

03-29-12, 07:03 PM

Okay, look. Would the sanctioning body for pro tennis have a problem if the nucleus of tennis fans dismissed the rules and the organization as being a joke? Ditto virtually another other sport you can think of. While FTG may have secured the short term fandom of midget/sprint fans in the US, he lost the other 75% of the hard-core fans outside Indiana. How the hell does any rational person look at that situation and say, "Oh, well, hell, we don't need the nucleus of the fans that are absolutely rabid for the sport. Screw 'em! We'll get new fans who are located on the periphery of the overall fan base." You'd have to be frakkin' nuts to think that plan is going to work. Why the hell would new fans flock to a product that knowledgeable, rabid fans dismiss as second-rate dreck? Apply that situation to any sport you want to talk about, whether it be sailing, golf, football (witness USFL, etc.), basketball, etc. IMS is basically trying to swim with a 500lb barbell tied around their ankles. The longer they tread water, the more money they lose.

Until we're all dead and gone, they're going to be in the same situation. I'm betting we're going to live longer than they've got money.

pfc_m_drake

03-29-12, 09:49 PM

Also, get of my lawn punk. :p:p

Ziggy

03-30-12, 07:34 AM

Yes... they did... as I said 17 years ago. Get over it.

I'm not cheerleading, and if you don't like it you don't have to watch it. But its better than nothing, because that is the direction it was headed, and the jury is still out as to whether its still going there (but its not looking great).

Guess what Half Litre, I don't watch. Throw in another 100K and that about sums it up. "it's better than nothing", no, it is nothing. The direction it was heading? Prior to the split you could not buy a ticket in the main grandstand for Milwaulkee. Even Michigan had decent crowds in the main stand. I know, I didn't watch VHS tapes. I went to a dozen events at each track. The "jury" has left the courthouse, quite a while ago. Most are on this message board, they don't plan on coming back. They do however, stress to remind you as to what a Lemming is.

Rogue Leader

03-30-12, 09:26 AM

Guess what Half Litre, I don't watch. Throw in another 100K and that about sums it up. "it's better than nothing", no, it is nothing. The direction it was heading? Prior to the split you could not buy a ticket in the main grandstand for Milwaulkee. Even Michigan had decent crowds in the main stand. I know, I didn't watch VHS tapes. I went to a dozen events at each track. The "jury" has left the courthouse, quite a while ago. Most are on this message board, they don't plan on coming back. They do however, stress to remind you as to what a Lemming is.

You keep talking to me like I'm someone who has never been to a race before (I'm not) or was not around and doesn't remember the heyday (nope not that either). I wasn't in the stands at Michigan but that doesn't make me any less of a fan than you or anyone else. I watched these races, live on tv, I even went to some. I couldn't afford to go to many races at all, but I still followed everything closely for longer than I can remember. I remember watching the Indy 500 being an all day affair (with the pre race show being quite long), and bump day and the excitement.

I also know what some of these guys go through personally, I know that many were not happy with how it went. I know that many have a heart in Open wheel and while this isn't ideal, the alternative would be devastating to them. They would all like it a different way, look at PT who called these cars crapwagons, but is still doing everything he can to get back in. Because he realizes this is what it is.

I haven't forgotten how dumb it was to split the sport at the arguable height of its popularity, I haven't forgotten how great it looked to have 300,000 people in the stands as opposed to 100,000 if they are lucky and Honda hands out a boatload of tickets.

One of the reasons I like this place is the honest views and the pragmatic arguemnts. Unlike CW that was filled with rah rah cheerleading and ,,,,,,,,,,,,, non stop. I couldn't stand it.

But unlike a guy who keeps sending his exgirlfriend flowers after she dumped him and gangbanged his friends (because thats what some of this whole thread and every other one sounds like), I let it go. I still love racing plain and simple. And I am a fan of some of the drivers out there, and you know what, these cars while a bit bulbous in the rear have the potential to be going in the right direction. I still don't know. As far as I'm concerned CART, ChampCar, and IndyCar is dead. Murdered by Tony George. What we are watching here is a new product built from whatever was left. Its not the same and never will be. Thats just what it is. At the risk of repeating myself again, it was 17 years ago, its over. Get over it.

High Sided

03-30-12, 10:37 AM

Methanolandbrats

03-30-12, 10:38 AM

Rogue, you keep saying get over it and watch it because "it is better than nothing". That is the disagreement. I am over it and to me "nothing" is better than this current ****. I was a ticket buying, fanatical fan going all the way back to CanAm. To me AOW was killed dead and no longer exists. That does not mean I am not a race fan. I watch F1, ALMS, the Continental series that runs with Grand Am, World Super Bike, WRC (if I could), V8 Supercars (when I can) and assorted other stuff including late model stocks at my local tracks. I simply have no interest in the slow, ugly dog and pony show AOW has become. If you are correct and this is the start of something new, I will be back when it has evolved into something that interests me.

Rogue Leader

03-30-12, 11:12 AM

you have to look at it from other perspectives. sure for us it's easier to let go and watch this crap hoping it will get better but look at it from a speedway indiana residents perspective who grew up with indy in their back yard. people who for years looked forward to may and indy, showing off their town, filling their yards with strangers cars and treating them like good friends. to now detesting the month of may, moving out of speedway to put that track out of their minds. i feel bad for the people who's lives were filled with indy, they have an empty sour stomach that nothing is gonna fix. the last 17 yrs makes about as much sense as if st. louis got rid of the cardinals and started a new baseball series, nonsense.

I definitely agree, while I am a huge fan I am sure had it been in my back yard (closest race to me was the Meadowlands) it would affect me in ways I can't imagine. Heck it burns me to this day that the Vanderbilt Cup races practically started here on Long Island, yet this place basically shuns any racing history it ever had, and turned "the Bridge" into a golf course! I also realize that the lack of attendance likely caused the loss of jobs and so forth in the area both on race teams and also local businesses. But some of those guys still do have jobs, and this is whats sustaining them, this is what keeps them employed.

The last 17 years makes no sense, and I only wonder if TG looks back with regret and says "what have i done?". I seriously doubt it.

Rogue, you keep saying get over it and watch it because "it is better than nothing". That is the disagreement. I am over it and to me "nothing" is better than this current ****. I was a ticket buying, fanatical fan going all the way back to CanAm. To me AOW was killed dead and no longer exists. That does not mean I am not a race fan. I watch F1, ALMS, the Continental series that runs with Grand Am, World Super Bike, WRC (if I could), V8 Supercars (when I can) and assorted other stuff including late model stocks at my local tracks. I simply have no interest in the slow, ugly dog and pony show AOW has become. If you are correct and this is the start of something new, I will be back when it has evolved into something that interests me.

I never said you or anyone else is not a race fan. The only thing I am lamenting is the fact that every post devolves into "if these idiots just brought back Champ Cars and 2.65l turbos", or "there was nothing wrong with it in 1995", and so on. Yes we get it. You're preaching to the choir. We all know it was better then and had it continued to today, NASCAR would be a redneck sport and Indy Car would be on top. But its not. Thats all I'm saying sorry if I come across otherwise. And anyone here who actually mentions that they may vaguely be interested in giving this series a chance is immediately called a lemming or told to go to CW, or to not know anything about racing.

As I said above my perspective may be different if I lived in Speedway, but I don't. And up until the past 8 or so years I could not afford to go to races, I grew up pretty damn broke and was lucky enough to have a TV that I could watch races on. That doesn't change my passion for the sport or make me any less of a fan, or make my opinion any less valid.

Ziggy

03-30-12, 01:43 PM

TrueBrit

03-30-12, 02:02 PM

If you are correct and this is the start of something new, I will be back when it has evolved into something that interests me.

Holy crap, I agree with Gas 'n' Sausages for the second time this decade.....Hark! Are those Horsemen I hear???:D

Rogue Leader

03-30-12, 02:59 PM

then if you want to save it, put your money were your mouth is.

Buy a ticket, get on a plane, rent a hotel room go to the races

I doubt you ever have to buy a ticket, shoot some uber Lemming a PM. You would be better served on a Pro Earl message board.

Not only did Tony George kill open wheel racing, he severed the cord of history. These "safety cell" dink bags and Illmore engines (nee Honda/Chevy) would love to have you.

I am planning on going to the Baltimore race this year, and if they end up at Pocono next year I will probably be there as well. I would do more but I have far to many commitments with my own racing to be able to afford more than that.

And you are mistaken if you think I am "Pro Earl" read my posts a bit closer. The Earl is gone anyway, there is nothing to call this yet.

gerhard911

03-30-12, 03:11 PM

The Earl is gone anyway, there is nothing to call this yet.

There are plenty of things to call Indy Carz 2012 and of those that come to my mind, "The Earl" would probably be the most complimentary. But you have endured enough grief in this thread so I won't pile on further.

Enjoy Baltimore. Look up Paff and give him our regards :p

Methanolandbrats

03-30-12, 03:12 PM

Holy crap, I agree with Gas 'n' Sausages for the second time this decade.....Hark! Are those Horsemen I hear???:D

Nice to see you are coming around, now if Schumi can just pull off #8....:D

stroker

03-30-12, 03:50 PM

Nice to see you are coming around, now if Schumi can just pull off #8....:D

Cue Graham Chapman or John Cleese in high dudgeon...

EDwardo

03-30-12, 04:23 PM

Cue John Cleese in high dudgeon...

http://www.thesocialcentre.com/images/480720150fawlty2.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78b67l_yxUc

opinionated ow

03-30-12, 07:24 PM

Cue Graham Chapman or John Cleese in high dudgeon...

Our prime minister would have called that high dungeon

Rogue Leader

03-31-12, 01:47 AM

There are plenty of things to call Indy Carz 2012 and of those that come to my mind, "The Earl" would probably be the most complimentary. But you have endured enough grief in this thread so I won't pile on further.

Enjoy Baltimore. Look up Paff and give him our regards :p

The only thing I'd give him is a **** slap across the face

Hard Driver

03-31-12, 08:52 AM

Prior to the split you could not buy a ticket in the main grandstand for Milwaulkee. Even Michigan had decent crowds in the main stand..

No offense, but you sound like an old geezer talking about the glory of their youth.

Split happened.

But in case you missed it, both CART and the IRL failed. What we have now is another series called Indycar, based upon the remmanents of both. I understand that there are a lot of bitter memories of what was destroyed, and the fact that the remanents of the IRL being part of the series is too much for some to take.

Personally, and I am not saying anyone else has to think the same way, I am following the series and may post on this racing forum about it. If I am met by a bunch of people whining about the glory days, so be it. Sure, trackforum is an option, but I have been here for a long time and 7th gear before that. I do respect the views, passion and generally like minded views on racing reflected here. I would prefer offcamber to have some relevence more than just bashing Indycar and NASCAR. So just to give some warning, I may post some Indycar threads this year that are not negative.

opinionated ow

03-31-12, 09:10 AM

I'm nearly 25. I just watched Super Speedway on DVD. This current crap has absolutely nothing on it. at. all.

Methanolandbrats

03-31-12, 09:20 AM

HD, CART was killed, the IRL is still limping along re-badged as IndyCar. Same stupidity, same crap. As far as "old geezers" go, I suppose I'm one too. Having stood on the Road America grid for Can Am, gone to IMSA GTP and CART races at RA, Milw and Michigan, do you really think I'm going to watch DP prototypes and DW12 **** boxes lumber around? Hell no, this is one case where it really was better "back then". That does not mean you cannot enjoy it. Have fun and maybe something will evolve that attracts back the millions of fans who abandoned the sport. Time will tell. ,,,,,,,,,,peace in racing,,,,,;)

RTKar

03-31-12, 10:27 AM

The irony for me, some of the best racing today that has captured my attention since the split, is USAC Midget & Silver Crown.

By the way, wasn't the original idea to funnel these drivers into Indy Car?

I guess not.

Being an older geezer that has attended many races. The irl is nothing but FAIL, synthetic in character, void of compelling storyline, a fading shadow of what open wheel racing in North America should be.

NismoZ

03-31-12, 01:34 PM

Cool, a geezer thread! This one time, at Meadowdale....:D

Ziggy

03-31-12, 01:47 PM

gerhard911

03-31-12, 01:55 PM

So just to give some warning, I may post some Indycar threads this year that are not negative.

Knock yourself oout, but fair warning, I bet they all turn negative :eek:

Rex Karz

03-31-12, 02:07 PM

The EARL: Once a turd. Always a turd.

Rogue Leader

03-31-12, 05:05 PM

it's not about me, it's about the racing

which now sucks

but enjoy

oh and by the way, I am 50.

CART would have never have fallen to this level without Lord Sagamore's help.

enjoy your dullarahs :gomer::gomer::gomer:

And I have been on this message board a long time. SeventhGear was always for posers. So I could give a crap, and let me warn you, I have a pretty sensitive bullsheet meter and will remind you that you are a fan of crap racing any chance I get.

Hard Driver, what color is your Mini Van???? :laugh:

This is what I mean. Yes we got it. We know. we understand.....

But thank you for repeating it 500 times.

Use your BS meter all you want I have been completely honest in this thread. Your opinion is its crap, doesn't make my opinion BS.

Hard Driver

03-31-12, 07:05 PM

Hard Driver, what color is your Mini Van???? :laugh:

My 2012 Audi S4 is black. My wife's 2008 Audi A4 is blue, and is a stick.

Racing Truth

03-31-12, 07:59 PM

Okay, look, I'm seriously not trying to be a dick here, but I have to say this. You guys pleading with everyone to just give the series a chance now just don't get it, do you? For every microscopic thing that has been done right in the last three years, a series Management Team with an IQ higher than a lightbulb could have done it in three weeks years ago. They literally could have pulled the F5000 rulebook from 1975 or the CART rulebook from 1978 and had an affordable series that could have lived within the current levels of sponsorship right right from the word go. We're all done genuinely bitching about the car and the tracks and the diversity (we've long since moved past ridicule to resignation) and we've been done with it for a long time. The single, incontrovertible and unchangeable issue is that the IMS brain trust hasn't gone the sense to come in out of the goddamned rain. Until they have EFF ALL to do with running the series, whatever the .1RL mutates into is going to be positively, irrevocably FUBAR'd. There's no reason--zip, zero, nada, to put an ounce of emotion (let alone money) into this clusterfrack as long as that's the case.

I guess it says something about me that I live such a pathetic life that I don't have anything better to do that post on boards about it. I guess it's about the same as gloating over OJ Simpson finally being in jail despite getting away with murder.

I'm going to shut up now.

Oh fer cryin out loud. See, it ISN'T 1975, 1978, or 1993 (to High Sided's post). Hey, I wish it was. But reality being what it is, just going back to a package from 15-20 yrs. ago (with a tiny bit of evolution- it would be modest, though. Unchecked evolution would get you 260 at IMS, beyond sanity, IMHO) is kinda pointless. The past is just that.

Methanolandbrats

03-31-12, 08:09 PM

^^^ nice rides.

Chief

03-31-12, 08:48 PM

The past is just that.

Perhaps, but it was 1,000,000,000,000,000 Trillion times better than what the IRL is parading about as AOW today. How can you call that evolution if the cars are uglier, slower, and visually unappealing as they are today? Nothing has evolved EXCEPT retiring the 9 year old backbreaker aero-plane dullara dart. And that, only because Wheldon got fenceposted in it....thus they were forced into this DW12 abortion. You call that evolution?:thumdown:

Methanolandbrats

03-31-12, 08:49 PM

cameraman

04-01-12, 05:35 AM

How can you call that evolution if the cars are uglier, slower, and visually unappealing as they are today?

Actually it is evolution, it has just evolved into something we don't like.

MoCartt

04-01-12, 08:03 AM

Pink Slime. The FDA said it was 100% beef.

Yum yum...eat 'em up!

(Old geezer's will remember that too.)

:laugh:

04-01-12, 01:05 PM

Pink Slime. The FDA said it was 100% beef.

Yum yum...eat 'em up!

(Old geezer's will remember that too.)

:laugh:
I think you meant "Eat 'em up, YUM!"

[obligatory]Now get off my lawn![/geezer]

Chief

04-01-12, 01:55 PM

I think you meant "Eat 'em up, YUM!"

Yes sir, that's it....Eat 'em up, YUM! :laugh: :gomer:

Methanolandbrats

04-01-12, 02:37 PM

never mind

Racing Truth

04-01-12, 05:58 PM

well, it was a religion, a way of life.

and they screwed it up.

and when I see people say "yeah, but." I am here to remind them they don't know jack sheet about car racing

Cause buddy, the **** your watching, and cheerleading, ain't it.

A "religion?" Really?:rolleyes:

Oh, and thanks for appointing yourself "Racing Guru," who can tell us all what we don't know.:shakehead

Racing Truth

04-01-12, 06:23 PM

Perhaps, but it was 1,000,000,000,000,000 Trillion times better than what the IRL is parading about as AOW today. How can you call that evolution if the cars are uglier, slower, and visually unappealing as they are today? Nothing has evolved EXCEPT retiring the 9 year old backbreaker aero-plane dullara dart. And that, only because Wheldon got fenceposted in it....thus they were forced into this DW12 abortion. You call that evolution?:thumdown:

I realize facts are pesky things, but that's wildly inaccurate. Quick quiz: Who was the initial test driver for the DW12?

It is an aesthetic mess, no question, but the whole notion of a new car was started 2 years ago, well before the Vegas disaster. Wheldon, of course, tested it, bumper and all, before his death. Feel free to rail on it, but you might want to get your facts straight in the process.

I guess I don't get why you seem bent on calling it the "IRL." The people who made it the IRL, and whom we all loathe, are, err, GONE. The philosophy is 180 from the IRL. Whether it's any good is a personal opinion, but calling it "IRL", like the split never ended, TG never left, Barnhart never left, etc. looks silly.

gerhard911

04-01-12, 06:48 PM

Wait, what? When did Barnfart leave??? And who still owns the abortion you insist on not calling the IRL?

I1wg1DNHbNU

Talk aboot getting your facts straight :gomer:

Racing Truth

04-01-12, 06:59 PM

Wait, what? When did Barnfart leave??? And who still owns the abortion you insist on not calling the IRL?

I1wg1DNHbNU

Talk aboot getting your facts straight :gomer:

Fine, Brainfart stll has a position, just not one where he causes any harm. And you're gonna get hung up on "ownership?" Nevermind that the folks at IMS have almost nothing to do w/ running the series anymore (think the Sisters really know much about racing?). Or that TGeorge is just a mere team co-owner now.

No, IMS owns it, so there!:rolleyes: Feeling pretty good about my facts, really.;)

gerhard911

04-01-12, 08:35 PM

Nevermind that the folks at IMS have almost nothing to do w/ running the series anymore (think the Sisters really know much about racing?).

Proof of the first half of your statement? You think Ropin' doesn't have to answer to the H-G family :laugh:

As to the the parenthetical second half, neither did :tony: but that didn't stop him from meddling. :saywhat:

Rex Karz

04-01-12, 08:52 PM

As to the the parenthetical second half, neither did :tony: but that didn't stop him from meddling. :saywhat:

People who have lots of money tend to do a lot of stupid things.

Chief

04-01-12, 10:10 PM

I realize facts are pesky things, but that's wildly inaccurate. Quick quiz: Who was the initial test driver for the DW12?

It is an aesthetic mess, no question, but the whole notion of a new car was started 2 years ago, well before the Vegas disaster. Wheldon, of course, tested it, bumper and all, before his death. Feel free to rail on it, but you might want to get your facts straight in the process.

I guess I don't get why you seem bent on calling it the "IRL." The people who made it the IRL, and whom we all loathe, are, err, GONE. The philosophy is 180 from the IRL. Whether it's any good is a personal opinion, but calling it "IRL", like the split never ended, TG never left, Barnhart never left, etc. looks silly.

Nothing I wrote was inaccurate. The DW12 was the ONLY option and they were forced to use it because they couldn't go back to the old car that killed test DW12 driver Dan Wheldon. Also, just skip over the fact the series officials knew the old car flew, maimed and killed over the 9 years it was in service, but never admitted it until Dan ate fencepost. Yet, Randy Bernard thought it was a great idea to do a caged death match at Las Vegas, even promoted it as such, and let it happen. And yes, Brian Barnhart went along willingly for Las Vegas and the prior 9 years....and while fully implicated in the crap that resulted when they killed Wheldon, he is still employed by IMS as VP of Operations (or some-such nepotistic incarnated job).

They continue to operate JUST LIKE the IRL...therefore I reserve the right to call them that. When they earn my respect, I will refer to them in a proper way. The doofuses that ran it before still run it now....

It is my opinion (which is based in fact) that IF Dan hadn't been killed they would have shelved the DW12 till 2013 because it was/is a piece of crap. Instead, they muscled it out far short of what it was ever expected to be, and being the underachieving losers they are, they revel in the fact it even exists....like it's some great accomplishment. It's not.

gerhard911

04-01-12, 11:01 PM

People who have lots of money tend to do a lot of stupid things.

Exactly my point.

Did then, still do now.

Same As It Ever Was.

mapguy

04-01-12, 11:23 PM

never mind

Knowing you, I would agree.

Being a CART fan, supporting the earl is like comforting the family of the person who killed one of your family.

Racing "Truth" please take your Speedway propaganda somewhere else.

Gnam

04-02-12, 02:28 AM

Quick! To the Offcamber IndyCar forum! :D

The IRL was founded on a lie, and the lies continued for 17 years. The most recent one is that Dan Wheldon was killed by a fence.

If Indycar is something new, something different than the IRL, it must start with the truth. Otherwise no combination of CART/ChampCar ingredients (drivers, turbos, Road America) will make the series successful.

Has this new Indycar series made it's rule book public yet?
Why is there an airbox on the DW12?
What happened to the Texas races?

The IRL would never answer those questions honestly. Will Indycar?

MoCartt

04-02-12, 10:50 AM

Hey...I think I was right...Uncle George and the YouTube vid title says so!

Mi_gQM6vucQ

Amazing how something like that can stick with you for 50+ years

:laugh:

Don Quixote

04-02-12, 11:15 AM

Rogue Leader

04-02-12, 12:41 PM

Those of you that supported the Idiot willfully contributed to the demise of the sport. Don't come telling us to take a bite of your **** sandwich after all that went down. I blame you that we will never again feel that thrill while sitting on the back side of a road course when the cars fired up for the first time in the morning. Pretending that what you have now is even 10% of what we had then is laughable.

Not sure if you are directly referring to my posts but if you are you apparently didn't read them. I don't support the idiot, never did and never will (heck I'm the one who posted the article about him being voted biggest dick in motorsports!).

EDwardo

04-02-12, 02:09 PM

This thread has too much IRL love in it.

Don Quixote

04-02-12, 02:36 PM

Not sure if you are directly referring to my posts but if you are you apparently didn't read them. I don't support the idiot, never did and never will (heck I'm the one who posted the article about him being voted biggest dick in motorsports!).

Well there you go, then its not directed at you. :)

Methanolandbrats

04-02-12, 02:43 PM

This thread has too much IRL love in it.

How about a new forum section? The "It's not that bad" sub-forum. Eggcellent place to discuss the New IRL.

stroker

04-02-12, 02:44 PM

I think you meant "Eat 'em up, YUM!"

(I thought those were fish heads....?)

SurfaceUnits

04-02-12, 02:51 PM

the IRL failed. What we have now is warmed over failure

you got it man

Racing Truth

04-02-12, 08:35 PM

Nothing I wrote was inaccurate. The DW12 was the ONLY option and they were forced to use it because they couldn't go back to the old car that killed test DW12 driver Dan Wheldon. Also, just skip over the fact the series officials knew the old car flew, maimed and killed over the 9 years it was in service, but never admitted it until Dan ate fencepost. Yet, Randy Bernard thought it was a great idea to do a caged death match at Las Vegas, even promoted it as such, and let it happen. And yes, Brian Barnhart went along willingly for Las Vegas and the prior 9 years....and while fully implicated in the crap that resulted when they killed Wheldon, he is still employed by IMS as VP of Operations (or some-such nepotistic incarnated job).

They continue to operate JUST LIKE the IRL...therefore I reserve the right to call them that. When they earn my respect, I will refer to them in a proper way. The doofuses that ran it before still run it now....

It is my opinion (which is based in fact) that IF Dan hadn't been killed they would have shelved the DW12 till 2013 because it was/is a piece of crap. Instead, they muscled it out far short of what it was ever expected to be, and being the underachieving losers they are, they revel in the fact it even exists....like it's some great accomplishment. It's not.

Let me first point out where you have a point: The decision to run Vegas. Yes, that was a mistake, with horrific consequences. I, personally, blame TGBB for that, seeing that as "veteran racing official", he should have known better. That said, saying RB promoted it like a "cage death match" is ridiculous.

As to the rest of your "insight," no, they were NEVER bringing back the old wagon one more yr. Period. What remains of the fanbase woild have, rightly, revolted and getting this done for 2012 was RB's goal from day one from being hired 2 yrs. ago. Anyone paying even the slightest attention would have known this.

Racing Truth

04-02-12, 08:36 PM

To all: So, a series with a bunch of r/s courses (too many streets, IMHO), and looking to go back to RA and end it's season in '13 on a street course is merely a product of "Speedway propaganda?" I mean, FFS, in what world does that make logical sense? Not to mention looking at PIR (I think it happens) and even Pocono (still doubtful, but hope it does happen)?

What I've learned over time is that '96-'07 were truly a waste of time. Everyone here knows this and the jalopnik list is dead on. We were split for no good reason, only to end up with a facsimilie of where we were to begin with. I not only do not deny it, but contemplating it (given where the sport is now) depresses and angers me.

But just because I watch IndyCar today doesn't mean I licked TG's ass. To the contrary, the fact that he no longer has power makes it much easier for me to embrace it. Zooming out a bit, if this iteration of IndyCar, 500 inc., dies as many wish, then the American racing scene is the worse off for it. I actually like NASCAR too, but the thought that in 10-20 yrs. it would be the ONLY thing in US motorsports makes me nauseous. And the notion that something can rise from the ashes, sans IMS, is utter delusion. I know, I know, Gesus Forsythe!:gomer:

It's easy to say I'm setting up a crude, overly-simplistic dichotomy here, and no, I cannot, with 100% certainty, predict the future. But a realistic assessment says this: Either this version of "IndyCar"/AOW makes it or it's gone for good.

I'm 28 and frankly, I'll be damned if I'm going to pull for the final demise of this thing. There's a lot more racing I hope to see and enjoy going forward, with IndyCar a big part of it I hope. "It'll never be as good as '95!" I agree. So what? Does that mean it can never have any entertainment value or enjoyment? If you answer yes, does that say more about the sport or us as fans?

Something really bad, terribly traumatic happened to this sport 16 yrs. ago. It wrecked a once-proud sport and, yes, great race. All b/c one man wanted total powers and the self-interests of owners prevented the superior side from beating him. We all know this.

But for the love of Allah, it was 16 yrs. ago! Call it trite, but get over it already! Either don't follow it and keep quiet if you're that disinterested (that's fine, BTW. If you dislike it so much, go away, by all means), or give it a shot, freed from the old battles that no longer exist in a meaningful way. Criticize when needed, and yes, there are/will be plenty of opportunities to do so. But, after this;), I have little time for those who say they're done with the sport for good, only to constantly bash it, hoping for it's demise. Going forward, you ARE part of the problem (h=ll, this entire fanbase beyotches about every stupid thing).

If you ask RB, or anyone associated with it, they'll say it too. Fans still obsessed over the split make this harder (having a fanbase that still takes shots at each other will do that). And yet, I'm still here b/c even in this condition, Indycar's "best days," (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-veterans-roll-in-bama/) rare though they may be, still beat the best of NASCAR by a mile and most dry F1 races. IMHO.

opinionated ow

04-02-12, 09:02 PM

http://images.wikia.com/familyguy/images/8/8b/Koolaid.jpg

That all sounds very totalitarian to me. If you don't like it you're not allowed to say as much...

Chief

04-02-12, 09:11 PM

Let me first point out where you have a point: The decision to run Vegas. Yes, that was a mistake, with horrific consequences. I, personally, blame TGBB for that, seeing that as "veteran racing official", he should have known better. That said, saying RB promoted it like a "cage death match" is ridiculous.

As to the rest of your "insight," no, they were NEVER bringing back the old wagon one more yr. Period. What remains of the fanbase woild have, rightly, revolted and getting this done for 2012 was RB's goal from day one from being hired 2 yrs. ago. Anyone paying even the slightest attention would have known this.

You are so full of crap. It's ok for them to keep Barnhart, not hold Bernard's feet to the fire over that LV disaster, not meet many objectives of the ICONIC committee or hold the imagination of the fans with this new car. They missed targets, there are fears for less than 225 mph and fewer than 33 cars at indy. There's one stupid assed bodykit that is an amalgamation of Dallara's moronic lack of race car design. This car is dumb....because they designed it for ovals, yet they are getting off of the ovals. PLUS, It no longer fits the requirements for an open wheel car. Rear bumpers are not needed for road courses. Take them off. This is more like 1/2 Open Wheel.

The fact the fans DIDN'T revolt is a testament to their idiocy. Just more hypocrisy, but I'm glad you are eating it up.

BigIrlFan

04-02-12, 09:13 PM

HAHahahahahaha. YOu CArt strret race loosers ain't got nothin. NOw that your favrite dead series (twice) aint a round you gone to suck up to teh IRl. WEll HElls BElles. YOu didn't need teh IRl in 1996 but you sure need it now. WEl to bad. It dont need you. YOu shoud have thought bout this in 1996 when you ranned the US500 HAHahahahahaha HOw did that turn ou? HAHahahahahaha TOo bad. THe IRl made a profit last year without you. IT doinfine. GO wach your doodle bug FOrmula ONe cars and leave the real racing to teh real race fans.

HAy I got my tweater runnin again this year. Follow me BigIrlFan

The IRl: Its our visions not yours

SurfaceUnits

04-02-12, 10:00 PM

Bif didn;t need know fence post to have a scull full of mush

Methanolandbrats

04-02-12, 10:10 PM

But for the love of Allah, it was 16 yrs. ago! Call it trite, but get over it already! Either don't follow it and keep quiet if you're that disinterested (that's fine, BTW. If you dislike it so much, go away, by all means), or give it a shot, freed from the old battles that no longer exist in a meaningful way. Criticize when needed, and yes, there are/will be plenty of opportunities to do so. But, after this;), I have little time for those who say they're done with the sport for good, only to constantly bash it, hoping for it's demise. Going forward, you ARE part of the problem (h=ll, this entire fanbase beyotches about every stupid thing).

If you ask RB, or anyone associated with it, they'll say it too. Fans still obsessed over the split make this harder (having a fanbase that still takes shots at each other will do that). And yet, I'm still here b/c even in this condition, Indycar's "best days," (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-veterans-roll-in-bama/) rare though they may be, still beat the best of NASCAR by a mile and most dry F1 races. IMHO.

Wow, the new Defender is born. What ********. 28 years old, eh, no wonder you think this **** is racing. You were swimming around in your dads balls or eating Gerber when racing did not suck. Telling Champ Car fans to go away on a Champ Car board, that's pretty ****ing strange. If you like it, fine, head on over to trackforum.

Rex Karz

04-02-12, 10:23 PM

gerhard911

04-02-12, 10:57 PM

So the "youthful Champcar enthusiast" (<30) is now a full on gomer getting his arse handed to him by a buncha geezer (>50) AOW fans :laugh:

WWDD :gomer:

:GeorgeCostanzaWorldsCollide: :rofl:

Easy

04-02-12, 11:27 PM

8 pages about something (contemporary motor sports) a significant portion of the membership seems to detest? :eek:

SurfaceUnits

04-03-12, 03:12 AM

It is known as "The Low Hanging Fruit Effect"

Rogue Leader

04-03-12, 07:34 AM

8 pages about something (contemporary motor sports) a significant portion of the membership seems to detest? :eek:

And I've never seen so many people twist the tiniest bit of hope for this series into jonestown koolaid drinking. This thread is worse than crapwagon.

Ziggy

04-03-12, 10:08 AM

The American Racing scene is dead Herr Lemming

"it's the only thing we got, so by golly I am going to watch it and like it."

If you think the Dullara was chosen due to it's superior design, you really need to evaluate who's information you are digesting and where their sources are gathering information.

That rolling abortion was chosen by non other than the Speedway Re Development Committee who are puppets to IMS, who in turn are huge contributors to both political parties in not only the city of Indianapolis, but also the entire State. Giancarlo was on board for all the fun and games which these brainiacs dovetailed into the new Main Street with the Dullara "factory" with it's tax exemptions and free real estate.

So while you in town for the "Five Hunnert" (or if you can save enough money rather than buying ducat for the famous Baltimore Street Festival 'O Speed) you can choke down a couple of pancakes at Charlie Browns and float on the ghosts of past Indy hero's, cross the street to check out the "factory" and maybe even converse with the nine Mexicans actually working there.

It's the best us stupid American's can do, so by all means enjoy :tony:

EDwardo

04-03-12, 10:38 AM

Some people just don't get it. Many of us simply aren't interested in what calls itself Indycar. No amount of name changes, lipstick, makeup, or shell games will alter the fact that it is a corpse and needs to be buried. the stench of the Hulman George folly is impermeable.
Put a bullet in the head of this zombie and start over. It is that simple.
If you choose to think otherwise that is your perogative. Just quit trying to convince us to tag along. There are other forums for that. You aren't going to change our minds. Please move along and quit bothering us.

cameraman

04-03-12, 12:03 PM

No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read a "foytility" thread. That's what this was a hundred or so posts back. Also as much as you might like to see it, the league is not going to fold up and go away. There are too many billionaires involved who don't want it to disappear. It will persist and some of us are interested enough to keep an eye on the series to see just what the current crew of lackeys are doing.

The simple fact is even though they have managed to screw up in just about every way humanly possible it turns out that those new sleds are capable of putting on a pretty good spec class race, at least on a true road course. Yes they are hideously ugly and are built to a truly idiotic spec but they actually managed to get the job done. The "job" being open(ish) wheeled Grand Am.

A foytility thread does not make this place TF but it is also not Smack either.

Also have you caught on to the irony of Smack having the most current news on the state of the series? The cowboy can't break wind without one of the stalker-haters posting it up before Robin Miller has had time to read the press release.

Chief

04-03-12, 01:33 PM

Oh, the irony! Those fine young lads and lasses at smackedforum merely want the sport to regain it's standing as an elite form of motorsport which today's regurgitated offerings can not provide.

mR. rANDY Bernard could learn something from the well known statement "AN EDUCATED CONSUMER IS OUR BEST CUSTOMER".

Too bad the Speedway's business plan is not based on something as simple as that....

cameraman

04-03-12, 01:52 PM

Oh, the irony! Those fine young lads and lasses at smackedforum merely want the sport to regain it's standing as an elite form of motorsport which today's regurgitated offerings can not provide.

Hope you plan on waiting until Mari dies (she's 77, you might get to wait another decade or so) and the sisters sell off the Speedway (unless Randy's kit sleds satisfy enough place fans that the sisters decide to keep the stupid thing) and then hope Penske (you know he'll buy it if he doesn't die first) doesn't screw things up any more than he already has because you know damn well that nothing major happens at the speedway without him signing off on it first.

Face it, CART is dead and gone and it will never, ever, return. There is nothing that you can do or say to change that.

SteveH

04-03-12, 02:19 PM

I can hate.

Chief

04-03-12, 02:56 PM

Face it, CART is dead and gone and it will never, ever, return. There is nothing that you can do or say to change that.

I agree with your assessment 100%, which is why the masquerade being perpetrated by the Speedway today as the "Indycar Series" is a total fraud.

It's not close, it never will be and as far as I'm concerned it's dead never to return. The 'it' I'm referencing is AOW however. So yeah, Mari can kick the bucket and Tony Jr. can take over, Rodeo Boy can ride the series or off to the sunset as far as I'm concerned.

In fact, they can and will do what ever the heck they want....they always do, and probably will forever. It's their birthright. Don't fault me for not wanting to be dragged screaming and kicking to buy in to their master plan, what ever the heck that was, is, or will be. Trust me though, they WILL screw it up all on their own....they always do.

It's great to not have skin in the game anymore! :thumbup:

datachicane

04-03-12, 03:17 PM

It sucks. Even if it sucks less than it previously did, a point I will readily concede, it still achieves levels of suckage easily exceeding that which would allow me to take an interest.

Current suckage > parts I like, and if you reach a different conclusion you clearly lack my excellent and refined tastes.

cameraman

04-03-12, 03:39 PM

It sucks. Even if it sucks less than it previously did, a point I will readily concede, it still achieves levels of suckage easily exceeding that which would allow me to take an interest.

Isn't that the whole point behind a Foytility thread? This weekend's serving of spec?

Chief

04-03-12, 04:02 PM

Isn't that the whole point behind a Foytility thread? This weekend's serving of spec?

Well no, not technically. The Foytility threads were aimed at mocking the futility of AJ Foyt, last bastion of the IRL empire formed by his god son, Lord Sagamore. The all 'merican Indy hiro staked his reputation on Indy, Americans and the IRL oval roots way to Indy. He hired hapless goof balls like AJ Foyt, Jr., Davey Hamilton, and slapped furriner Arie Lyundyk down into the flower beds at Texas in 1998 after Arie won the race....Foyt's driver Billy Boat had the win taken away from him in embarassing fashion.

Of course, the foytility spread to indy god Danika, the loser Micro Andretti, and other waste IRL/Indycar products like Milka Duno, Ricky treadway, etc. Seat fillers who NEVER had a chance to do anything but crash, break backs, and never come close to winning. Teams and drivers who had no chance but still participated despite the hoopla and pomp of their arrival...and the sad chance they could ever beat CART/CCWS's best drivers, teams and owners who have dominated the series since 2000's Indy embarassment and subsequent series domination, right through 2012.

The ultimate was when AJ hisownself took furriner money to race, hired furriner drivers, even backed the move to road courses and strret courses. He even drove his bulldozer into a pond while fightin Killer Bees! Oh, the Foytility of it all....