St. Pete thread

[Racing Truth]

Call it the "Futility" if you must, but here it is. Video from Day 1:

PzJbimhw_JM

Yeah, the back ends suck, but turbos are back.:thumbup: FWIW: New car was 1.37 secs. quicker than the old turd.

[Megger]

I was at the track today....not bad. It was nice to hear the turbo's.

[Trevor Longman]

Its an improvement but the side pods, lunch boxes, and faux air boxes are a lot for me to get past. The turbos are nice but they need another 200hp and they need to look more out of control. The old champ car turbos were an assault on your senses but theses don't rev high enough to do it for me. Maybe once the new aero kits come out next year I'll change my opinion but for now its still not a large enough departure from the crapwagon of old to make a big difference. There were some pretty cool on board camera angles in there though

[Andrew Longman]

Sorry.Those cars assault my eyes.

In some liveries, the ugliness can be disguised a bit though. Kind of like light loose clothing is said to be slimming on a fat person I guess

[Elmo T]

In some liveries, the ugliness can be disguised a bit though. Kind of like light loose clothing is said to be slimming on a fat person I guess

The darker side pods seem to blend with the rear tires. Still ugly though.

Nice to see some of the old school onboard angles.

[Methanolandbrats]

Its an improvement but the side pods, lunch boxes, and faux air boxes are a lot for me to get past. The turbos are nice but they need another 200hp and they need to look more out of control. The old champ car turbos were an assault on your senses but theses don't rev high enough to do it for me. Maybe once the new aero kits come out next year I'll change my opinion but for now its still not a large enough departure from the crapwagon of old to make a big difference. There were some pretty cool on board camera angles in there though

:thumbup:

[Don Quixote]

Ever since Danicles left, I just can't seem to get interested in these races. :gomer:

[Racing Truth]

Its an improvement but the side pods, lunch boxes, and faux air boxes are a lot for me to get past. The turbos are nice but they need another 200hp and they need to look more out of control. The old champ car turbos were an assault on your senses but theses don't rev high enough to do it for me. Maybe once the new aero kits come out next year I'll change my opinion but for now its still not a large enough departure from the crapwagon of old to make a big difference. There were some pretty cool on board camera angles in there though

Will Power, FWIW, agrees on the hp thing. I do too, but not yet. Engine supply is, uhh, dicey right now, so I'm fine keeping it down, for now. Post-Indy, I'd turn it up some.

I, too, hate the pods, but am resigned to the Carbashians. Ironically, the speedway package (Indy and Fontana) (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-updated-speedway-aero-pieces-making-progress/) looks nice, since the bumper and rear wing are integrated. MP's right: Do that everywhere else.

I'm over the fauxbox. Don't like it, but meh. BTW, from RACER: (http://www.racer.com/racer-special-lotus--the-little-engine-that-could/article/229879/2/)


“Soon, we will be discussing with IndyCar the rules so we can design a good aero kit,” he says, “but IndyCar must be careful to keep down the cost, so we don't have to sell kits to the teams for a high price. We don't have rules for the kits yet but it will involve the front wing, rear wing, engine cover and sidepods. We need to have a car with a Dallara bodykit to put in the wind tunnel and learn it better. When we understand that and have rules, we can start to produce the aero kit. I tell you, if IndyCar told us the rules tomorrow, then tomorrow Lotus would start work on it!”


So, the fauxbox and pods might well be gone next yr.

To me, the front end is a huge improvement over the old car.

BTW: Morning speeds. (http://media.indycar.com/pdf/2012/PETE-IICS_M24_practice3.pdf)

[High Sided]

typical. no timing scoring or radio for qualifying. :irked:

[Racing Truth]

typical. no timing scoring or radio for qualifying. :irked:

Typical is right.:shakehead:shakehead Though T&S now up; no radio.

[High Sided]

ra di o up no w .

[Racing Truth]

ra di o up no w .

Heh, yeah, kinda.

[Racing Truth]

Really do need more hp eventually. Not nearly as quick today as I thought they'd be. Reds aren't doing much.

[Racing Truth]

Going quicker now. No TCGR car in top 6.:thumbup::thumbup:

[High Sided]

enough for me, radio cutting out getting to annoying. :thumdown:

[Racing Truth]

enough for me, radio cutting out getting to annoying. :thumdown:

Yep, I jumped off too.

[JohnHKart]

Radio? What's that? :thumdown:

[Artemus]

I'm over the fauxbox. Don't like it, but meh.

I was going to drop in briefly to ask why turbo cars have airboxes (which I assume is the "fauxbox"). Are they entirely cosmetic? Which still brings to mind the question, why?

[High Sided]

Power opens IndyCar season with pole at St. Pete

By JENNA FRYER, AP Auto Racing Writer – 32 minutes ago

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — Will Power led a strong Penske Racing effort in qualifying for the IndyCar season opener by winning the pole for the Honda Grand Prix of St. Petersburg.

Power set an IndyCar track record of 1:01.3721 over the winding 1.8-mile course through the streets of St. Petersburg. His Penske teammate Ryan Briscoe qualified second at 1:01.5357.

Andretti Autosport qualified third and fourth behind Ryan Hunter-Reay and James Hinchcliffe, while Penske's Helio Castroneves was fifth as Chevrolet's took the top five spots.

Simon Pagenaud was the highest qualifying Honda driver at sixth. But he loses 10 spots on the starting grid for an unapproved engine change on Friday.

The powerhouse Target Chip Ganassi Racing missed the final round of qualifying when Dario Franchitti and Scott Dixon failed to advance into the final round.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hCq0qOJU_E7Z7tRlCJR_tCeEUjcw?docId=f114d6ae0 0b548e9b34e8c87bceb7e15

[High Sided]

I was going to drop in briefly to ask why turbo cars have airboxes (which I assume is the "fauxbox"). Are they entirely cosmetic? Which still brings to mind the question, why?

they are snail holes :gomer:

[Artemus]

they are snail holes :gomer:

Well that explains it! ;)

[TravelGal]

From RT from Racer: I tell you, if IndyCar told us the rules tomorrow, then tomorrow Lotus would start work on it!”

Are they joking? Rules? From IndyCar?

And speaking of jokers, who are those announcers?

I agree that the turbo sound is good hear again. It sounds like they are driving around my driveway though. Do they ever go fast? :tony:

I think I've just watched as much of this as I'm going to.

[High Sided]

EtL7oe7BxRU

[Easy]

The airbox/fauxbox is the inlet for the turbo. From what I understand the rollbar airbox style inlet was the best (lowest cost) compromise as they allowed the engine MFRs to choose between single and twin turbo set ups which could have lead to high cost bodywork design differences. Something Dallara was not interested in for 2012 since they don't want to be an aero kit supplier anyway.

[Racing Truth]

The airbox/fauxbox is the inlet for the turbo. From what I understand the rollbar airbox style inlet was the best (lowest cost) compromise as they allowed the engine MFRs to choose between single and twin turbo set ups which could have lead to high cost bodywork design differences. Something Dallara was not interested in for 2012 since they don't want to be an aero kit supplier anyway.

Right.

BTW, TGal, I must challenge you. This IS NOT the TGBB-led IRL. I'm pretty impressed w/ Barfield and Will Phillips is a godsend on the new car.

You all see this as the TG-era IRL. It's NOWHERE near perfect, but the TG-led IRL this isn't. Website/streaming aside.;)

[TravelGal]

Right.

BTW, TGal, I must challenge you. This IS NOT the TGBB-led IRL. I'm pretty impressed w/ Barfield and Will Phillips is a godsend on the new car.

You all see this as the TG-era IRL. It's NOWHERE near perfect, but the TG-led IRL this isn't. Website/streaming aside.;)

To be honest, that clip was the first time I felt even a twinge of the old feeling. Probably because of the sound. And because I once went to St. Pete when there was a real race there. But, my comments still stand. They sound slow. I know that sounds odd but they "sound slow" to me. They look slow. Maybe it's the streaming. The announcers made my ears burn. I have realized, however, that I have to clean the fish tank tomorrow morning and I can't think of anything better than to have on the TV for drone in the background. So, you see, I'll give it a chance. :D

[Artemus]

The airbox/fauxbox is the inlet for the turbo. From what I understand the rollbar airbox style inlet was the best (lowest cost) compromise as they allowed the engine MFRs to choose between single and twin turbo set ups which could have lead to high cost bodywork design differences. Something Dallara was not interested in for 2012 since they don't want to be an aero kit supplier anyway.

Ah, that actually makes a bit of sense. Thanks for the info.

[stroker]

after watching that clip I don't understand why they don't put front fenders on them and call it Can-Am III...

:shakehead

[Methanolandbrats]

I don't understand why they don't crush all that junk and hang it up.

[Andrew Longman]

The airbox/fauxbox is the inlet for the turbo. From what I understand the rollbar airbox style inlet was the best (lowest cost) compromise as they allowed the engine MFRs to choose between single and twin turbo set ups which could have lead to high cost bodywork design differences. Something Dallara was not interested in for 2012 since they don't want to be an aero kit supplier anyway.
I want to call bunk. On an old Lola or Raynard the intake wasn't much more than a snorkel on the side pod. That couldn't have been much of a problem.

[G.]

BTW, TGal, I must challenge you. This IS NOT the TGBB-led IRL.


If'n yer aunt had balls, she'd be yer uncle. :shakehead

You are trying to challenge TravelGal based on what? Hope? Because they finally tried to do a half-assed copy of CART? And pretty well humped that pooch as well?? You are a bit premature in challenging anybody.


I'm pretty impressed w/ Barfield and Will Phillips is a godsend on the new car. Which one came up with the delayed aero-kit brainstorm? How long have they been on board (I don't really know)?

Hey, maybe they're great, but it's a bit late in the program to add competency.

And how about we get a race or 4 under the belt before you convince yourself that it's not the IRL?

[SteveH]

Isn't there a huge air filter in the air box? And that's the reason.....

I think. I really don't care.

Looks like a fat pig beast.

[Methanolandbrats]

Right.

BTW, TGal, I must challenge you. This IS NOT the TGBB-led IRL. I'm pretty impressed w/ Barfield and Will Phillips is a godsend on the new car.

You all see this as the TG-era IRL. It's NOWHERE near perfect, but the TG-led IRL this isn't. Website/streaming aside.;)

It is total ****. It reminds me of Spec Renault at Blackhawk Farms.

[Sean O'Gorman]

I don't understand why they don't crush all that junk and hang it up.

Because racing is fun and people like to do it.

Anyway, I think the cars look mostly weird, specifically the sidepods, but I can live with them for a year if the future aero bits are fully functional. I can't imagine anyone would stick with the stock Dallara pieces.

[Insomniac]

OK. I paid no attention to the new car but did watch a couple laps. WTH? Do they seem like large go karts to anyone else? The engines sounded like turbos.

[Rocketdoc]

I don't understand why they don't crush all that junk and hang it up.

I couldn't agree more.

They're slow and it looks like they are a handfull to drive straight.

[cameraman]

I fast forwarded through it. They do look a bit like overgrown karts. The cars are quick around the track, they lapped faster that the old sleds. They have managed to create a reasonable facsimile of a spec series. It wasn't an interesting race that's for certain. There was no Barnhart-esque stupidity. It is a openish wheel version of Grand Am prototurtles. That's pretty much it an open wheel Grand Am. I predict that it generates all the popularity and fan support that Grand Am has:tony:

[Racing Truth]

If'n yer aunt had balls, she'd be yer uncle. :shakehead

You are trying to challenge TravelGal based on what? Hope? Because they finally tried to do a half-assed copy of CART? And pretty well humped that pooch as well?? You are a bit premature in challenging anybody.

Which one came up with the delayed aero-kit brainstorm? How long have they been on board (I don't really know)?

Hey, maybe they're great, but it's a bit late in the program to add competency.

And how about we get a race or 4 under the belt before you convince yourself that it's not the IRL?

Aero kit delay was on... the owners:shakehead They B&M'd about costs.

With TGBB gone, there's really no vestige of the IRL left.

As for today, first half sucked, second was interesting. Tires and ill-handling seemed more prevalent. And a pass for the win on the outside that would not legally have occured last yr.

[Rex Karz]

This is the EARL.

The EARL blows dead goats. They will always blow dead goats.

Except when they blow dead dogs.

Any questions?

[Rocketdoc]

"With TGBB gone, there's really no vestige of the IRL left."

As long as the IMS has the influence it does, the series, to me, is perpetually second rate.

[stroker]

"With TGBB gone, there's really no vestige of the IRL left."

As long as the IMS has the influence it does, the series, to me, is perpetually second rate.

Yep.

[Andrew Longman]

They B&M'd about costs.Because the series produces insufficient value for the various player.

The IRL business case doesn't compute and hasn't since TG f'd it up from the start.

[Chief]

The car is hideously UGLY. How they can botch this car and screw just about everything else up continually is beyond me. Oooops, I forgot...its IMS.

It is SO visually unappealing that I couldn't even watch. It's real bad when a hater can't even hate anymore....they are so pathetic.

[Hard Driver]

IMO the vestiges of CART are there. Tony is not. The cars are turbos with ground effects and are pretty fast. Pole was .4 of a second off the pole of Bourdais in CART in 03. And this is with a brand new car. Next year they will probably beat that.

Sure the bumpers and budges are different and the cars are not sleek. But they look safe. The love tap to the rear wheel that spun one during the race at pit in did not have anyone flying. In years past that could have been ugly.

As far as the actual race. If this was a bunch of DP01 cars, you guys would be saying Castro Neves made a great outside pass, it was not as Gimicky as F1 with the DRS and passes were earned. I saw some great driving on the restarts. I saw bad pit strategy on Powers part. Overall a good race.

Yea, FTG and I am still pissed about destroying the sport I loved in 95. Yes the Hulmans still own it. But as a series, it really does at least seem to be pointed in the right direction at last. And it is the best we've got.

[Andrew Longman]

Pole was .4 of a second off the pole of Bourdais in CART in 03. Great. They couldn't beat a nine year old car. Which was really older than that at the time. And this car is clearly easier to drive.

It looks like it was designed by Salvator Dali.

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4923819733353387&id=022c76a4b7eed5de45b52eeca124ceb0

[gerhard911]

And it is the best we've got.

No, it's the best you're gonna get from the H-G clan. Enjoy your s*#!t sammich :gomer:

Plenty better available elsewhere, if you care to look...

[extramundane]

Great. They couldn't beat a nine year old car. Which was really older than that at the time. And this car is clearly easier to drive.

It looks like it was designed by Salvator Dali.

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4923819733353387&id=022c76a4b7eed5de45b52eeca124ceb0

Perfect. I couldn't put my finger on it, but it looks like someone left it in the microwave too long. :thumbup:

I watched about 20 minutes of it and, as Chief said, I couldn't be arsed to even hate it. It was just...boring.

[Insomniac]

Great. They couldn't beat a nine year old car. Which was really older than that at the time. And this car is clearly easier to drive.

Isn't the track different from when CART ran there?

[Andrew Longman]

Isn't the track different from when CART ran there?Not really. The first time they ran the chicane was quicker though. IIRC.

[SteveH]

I seem to recall the placement of kerbs were changed when the IRL took over. That and some grandstands were removed. :gomer:

[G.]

Slight correction:


If this was a bunch of DP01 cars, you guys would be saying ... it is the best we've got.

:p

[TravelGal]

Perfect. I couldn't put my finger on it, but it looks like someone left it in the microwave too long. :thumbup:

I watched about 20 minutes of it and, as Chief said, I couldn't be arsed to even hate it. It was just...boring.

Agreed. And, for the record, if is was DP01's running, I'd still hate it. I hated that car. I knew CART was done for when they came up with it. You know better than I do but my opinion was that it never worked right and the turbo sound was ruined.

I saw one pass of real interest. But then, I had the FF on so much I have no idea what happened to Bourdais or Hildebrand or probably a few others.

Scratching for something positive, I did like the livery on Bourdais' car and I thought Katherine Legg's was downright purty.

[cameraman]

I thought Katherine Legg's was downright purty.
And with it parked at the side of the road you got a nice clear view of it:p

[Rogue Leader]

To be honest, that clip was the first time I felt even a twinge of the old feeling. Probably because of the sound. And because I once went to St. Pete when there was a real race there. But, my comments still stand. They sound slow. I know that sounds odd but they "sound slow" to me. They look slow. Maybe it's the streaming. The announcers made my ears burn. I have realized, however, that I have to clean the fish tank tomorrow morning and I can't think of anything better than to have on the TV for drone in the background. So, you see, I'll give it a chance. :D

I felt the same way. ChampCars sounded like they were about to explode right before they shifted. These cars sound like they are short shifting the whole time.

[gjc2]

I agree the car is funny looking, but it seems like a “raceable” package. Half the field finished on the lead lap. Only one car went out because of contact, seven retired because of mechanical issues, (mostly electrical) but once the new power trains get through there “teething panes” I’ll bet mechanical attrition will be much lower.

[Ziggy]

sources "RACER" magazine

what a farking retard

[opinionated ow]

They're ugly and they sound strangled. How the heck am I supposed to like that?

[Mr. Vengeance]

But as a series, it really does at least seem to be pointed in the right direction at last.

Really? How is that? By introducing a less powerful engine in a car that's insultingly ugly? But hey! It's got a TURBO! BFD... 25 years ago you could buy a Dodge minivan with a turbo in it and it was a piece of ****, too.

The cars are still ugly, the engines still suck (or in this case, blow), and the seats are still empty. Management is arrogant, clueless and inept. Status quo at Indycar.

[TKGAngel]

I saw one pass of real interest. But then, I had the FF on so much I have no idea what happened to Bourdais or Hildebrand or probably a few others.

TGal, the "lack of passing" was brought up by the AP's Jenna Fryer during post-race. According to Dixon, there was lots of passing in the back, but ABC chose not to focus on it.

Note that I didn't actually see the race. My ABC affiliate didn't broadcast it, choosing instead to run a fundraising telethon for the local children's hospital.

[Elmo T]

I agree with most of the posts: sounds slow, looks odd, might be a race-able package but it wasn't racey, etc, etc. I don't recall seeing any real passes - but like TravelGal, I spent most of the race at 4X speed.

So they are able to maintain the street parade, but how is this thing really going to do on an oval?

[opinionated ow]

IMHO it is still this just uglier:
pKmdeS-at1o

[Wheel-Nut]

. . . and Helio cried . . . . nothing to see here, move along.

[Hard Driver]

I was going to drop in briefly to ask why turbo cars have airboxes (which I assume is the "fauxbox"). Are they entirely cosmetic? Which still brings to mind the question, why?

I heard that the airbox on top of the engine was a standard bit that all engine manufacturers had to use to get air. It is a standard air input so that no one tries to get too tricky or some spacergate type disagreement occurs.

[Hard Driver]

Great. They couldn't beat a nine year old car. Which was really older than that at the time. And this car is clearly easier to drive.

It looks like it was designed by Salvator Dali.

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4923819733353387&id=022c76a4b7eed5de45b52eeca124ceb0

Nine years ago they had boost limits to limit the speed of the car to what was desired. Add 10 psi of boost and either car would win. The point is that when being called "slow", they are about the same speed as CART was. The kart look is not the best, except it probably is the safest. After loosing another driver last year, I am OK with that.

[Easy]

I want to call bunk. On an old Lola or Raynard the intake wasn't much more than a snorkel on the side pod. That couldn't have been much of a problem.

It also has to be plumbed once under the cowl. It may change next year if the MFRs go ahead with their own bodywork. My info is from a statement by Will Phillips. What I took from it was that Dallara wasn't going to invest further to develop 3 different intake set ups which could be copied or scrapped in 12 months.

Dallara would rather focus on overcharging Vasser and Kalkhoven for those nice high margin suspension bits their Venezualan driver is so fond of destroying.

[Elmo T]

It also has to be plumbed once under the cowl. It may change next year if the MFRs go ahead with their own bodywork.

I swear they left the airbox it because it is cheaper to change the cars than to reanimate the entire snail movie. :rolleyes:

[Gnam]

I assumed it was a good will gesture to the current fans to show that the IRL still has visions:

Yes, ovals are being replaced with street courses.
Yes, the short track drivers are being replaced by foreigners.
Yes, the coiled snakes are being replaced with turbo chargers.

But, don't despair. This is not CART. CART didn't have airboxes. We do. It's all good IRL fans. :gomer::thumbup:

[Racing Truth]

"With TGBB gone, there's really no vestige of the IRL left."

As long as the IMS has the influence it does, the series, to me, is perpetually second rate.

And what kind of "influence" do you think they have today? And how much?

Specifics, please.

[Racing Truth]

IMO the vestiges of CART are there. Tony is not. The cars are turbos with ground effects and are pretty fast. Pole was .4 of a second off the pole of Bourdais in CART in 03. And this is with a brand new car. Next year they will probably beat that.

Sure the bumpers and budges are different and the cars are not sleek. But they look safe. The love tap to the rear wheel that spun one during the race at pit in did not have anyone flying. In years past that could have been ugly.

As far as the actual race. If this was a bunch of DP01 cars, you guys would be saying Castro Neves made a great outside pass, it was not as Gimicky as F1 with the DRS and passes were earned. I saw some great driving on the restarts. I saw bad pit strategy on Powers part. Overall a good race.

Yea, FTG and I am still pissed about destroying the sport I loved in 95. Yes the Hulmans still own it. But as a series, it really does at least seem to be pointed in the right direction at last. And it is the best we've got.

Yep, pretty much. In the end, the "IRL" won the organizationsl/business side; "CART," as we conceive of it, kinda won everything else. Of course, we all actually lost in the end, but from a pure ideological POV, the IRL of '96 won little, if at all.

[Methanolandbrats]

When Floyd and Penske are gone and the cars do not look like hell and have another 300 HP they will have begun to point in the right direction. At that point they might be able to attract actual fans and book actual race tracks. That point is very, very far away.

[SteveH]

4 chassis, 4 engine manufacturers, 2 tire companies. That was CART in 1996.

Whatever 'this' is, isn't that.

[pfc_m_drake]

Note that I didn't actually see the race. My ABC affiliate didn't broadcast it, choosing instead to run a fundraising telethon for the local children's hospital.
Yeah, but you got to see Irv, Rick, and Tom back together again for the first time in like a week and a half :p

It's funny, when I lived back there it seemed like Channel7 was always broadcasting one telethon or another every weekend. I suppose it's all for a good cause, but I often wondered if they were failing to fulfill some sort of contractual obligation as a network affiliate (for failing to air national programming).

Regarding the race, I've had a lot of hope for things over the years. And I'm not just saying this to push buttons...I'm really not...but yesterday was possibly the first time I've let myself start to think that what we had 'back in the good old days' never has a chance of coming back.

[cameraman]

Of course it is not coming back. Why would it come back? They have done everything in their power to make sure that it won't come back.

You have exactly what the rodeo cowboy was hired to make, a different flavor of Grand Am. That is what they want and that is the way it will stay.

Grand Am and IndyCar, two versions of the same low rent vision.

[Rocketdoc]

IMHO it is still this just uglier:
pKmdeS-at1o

I see that the lesser patron saint of the Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeege, John Todd Howard made it into the video.

[pfc_m_drake]

Of course it is not coming back. Why would it come back? They have done everything in their power to make sure that it won't come back.

The key word in my post was 'hope'.
I also hope I win PowerBall someday. I know it's not going to happen.
I was hoping that IndyCar had better odds. I'm now feeling that they do not.

[Hard Driver]

4 chassis, 4 engine manufacturers, 2 tire companies. That was CART in 1996.

Whatever 'this' is, isn't that.

No, but it is not an all oval series either. It is not a place for dirt track stars to be the feeder series. The IRL formula was rejected. It is now back to a series of street, road and some oval courses with many talented drivers, including foreign, using higher tech cars with turbos and ground effects. There are three engine manufacturers and will be some aero development coming next year.

So it is not the IRL of 1999 either.

Who won... nobody. Who lost.... everybody.

What are we left with? Well, sure, it is not the heyday of CART. But I think the series is shooting to return to the heyday of CART formula, rather than the depths of the IRL mistake formula.

New cars
New Engine manufacturers
New technical director
New race director
No Tony

Each of these things are for the better. Maybe it is not good enough for some. Maybe some will bear grudges that can not be overcome. Personally, I am happy that the old IRL formula failed, I am happy Tony failed and was basically humiliated. So now I am willing to give the new series a shake.

[High Sided]

Tony still lingering around, big day at the races for the founding father :laugh:
http://twitter.com/#!/antonhgeorge

[Gnam]

A New Hope? :D

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2459/628x471h.jpg

-James 'Danica' Hinchcliffe, St. Pete 2012

[Gnam]

kudos to smackforum for defining the problem so clearly.

New indycar = visual punishment

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1172/s11zx.jpg

[TrueBrit]

kudos to smackforum for defining the problem so clearly.

New indycar = visual punishment

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1172/s11zx.jpg

There's just no other way around it, that is unbelievably ugly...:yuck:

[Chief]

Note to IMS: You are screwed. :yuck:

[High Sided]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/000/948/406/226261.jpg.31312_crop_650x440.jpg?1273023338

[B3RACER1a]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/000/948/406/226261.jpg.31312_crop_650x440.jpg?1273023338

Exactly! Why couldn't they have just copied, or used something very similar, to the mid-90's specs?

I don't get it. But hey, people have uploaded complete seasons to youtube! :thumbup:

[stroker]

kudos to smackforum for defining the problem so clearly.

New indycar = visual punishment

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1172/s11zx.jpg

Paint it black and white and call it Orca.

[G.]

Paint it black and white and call it Orca.

Don't even call it: it might follow you home.

[stroker]

What are we left with? Well, sure, it is not the heyday of CART. But I think the series is shooting to return to the heyday of CART formula, rather than the depths of the IRL mistake formula.

New cars
New Engine manufacturers
New technical director
New race director
No Tony

Each of these things are for the better. Maybe it is not good enough for some. Maybe some will bear grudges that can not be overcome. Personally, I am happy that the old IRL formula failed, I am happy Tony failed and was basically humiliated. So now I am willing to give the new series a shake.

Okay, look, I'm seriously not trying to be a dick here, but I have to say this. You guys pleading with everyone to just give the series a chance now just don't get it, do you? For every microscopic thing that has been done right in the last three years, a series Management Team with an IQ higher than a lightbulb could have done it in three weeks years ago. They literally could have pulled the F5000 rulebook from 1975 or the CART rulebook from 1978 and had an affordable series that could have lived within the current levels of sponsorship right right from the word go. We're all done genuinely bitching about the car and the tracks and the diversity (we've long since moved past ridicule to resignation) and we've been done with it for a long time. The single, incontrovertible and unchangeable issue is that the IMS brain trust hasn't gone the sense to come in out of the goddamned rain. Until they have EFF ALL to do with running the series, whatever the .1RL mutates into is going to be positively, irrevocably FUBAR'd. There's no reason--zip, zero, nada, to put an ounce of emotion (let alone money) into this clusterfrack as long as that's the case.

I guess it says something about me that I live such a pathetic life that I don't have anything better to do that post on boards about it. I guess it's about the same as gloating over OJ Simpson finally being in jail despite getting away with murder.

I'm going to shut up now.

[mapguy]

Okay, look, I'm seriously not trying to be a dick here, but I have to say this. You guys pleading with everyone to just give the series a chance now just don't get it, do you? For every microscopic thing that has been done right in the last three years, a series Management Team with an IQ higher than a lightbulb could have done it in three weeks years ago. They literally could have pulled the F5000 rulebook from 1975 or the CART rulebook from 1978 and had an affordable series that could have lived within the current levels of sponsorship right right from the word go. We're all done genuinely bitching about the car and the tracks and the diversity (we've long since moved past ridicule to resignation) and we've been done with it for a long time. The single, incontrovertible and unchangeable issue is that the IMS brain trust hasn't gone the sense to come in out of the goddamned rain. Until they have EFF ALL to do with running the series, whatever the .1RL mutates into is going to be positively, irrevocably FUBAR'd. There's no reason--zip, zero, nada, to put an ounce of emotion (let alone money) into this clusterfrack as long as that's the case.

I guess it says something about me that I live such a pathetic life that I don't have anything better to do that post on boards about it. I guess it's about the same as gloating over OJ Simpson finally being in jail despite getting away with murder.

I'm going to shut up now.

Don't shut up. Why should we when people like Racing "Truth" try to feed us a steaming turd and tell us it is Filet Mignon. I watched the race and couldn't believe that they made a car uglier than the previous generation. I didn't think that it was possible. These cars are as agile as a teenager trying to take off his first girlfriend's bra.... These new cars are eye-searingly ugly. Combine all that with what the irl stands for and are you surprised? Just proves that there was nothing wrong with the sport back in 1995. That is why we won't support it.

Go back to Trackforum....

[chop456]

Okay, look, I'm seriously not trying to be a dick here, but I have to say this. You guys pleading with everyone to just give the series a chance now just don't get it, do you? For every microscopic thing that has been done right in the last three years, a series Management Team with an IQ higher than a lightbulb could have done it in three weeks years ago. They literally could have pulled the F5000 rulebook from 1975 or the CART rulebook from 1978 and had an affordable series that could have lived within the current levels of sponsorship right right from the word go. We're all done genuinely bitching about the car and the tracks and the diversity (we've long since moved past ridicule to resignation) and we've been done with it for a long time. The single, incontrovertible and unchangeable issue is that the IMS brain trust hasn't gone the sense to come in out of the goddamned rain. Until they have EFF ALL to do with running the series, whatever the .1RL mutates into is going to be positively, irrevocably FUBAR'd. There's no reason--zip, zero, nada, to put an ounce of emotion (let alone money) into this clusterfrack as long as that's the case.

I guess it says something about me that I live such a pathetic life that I don't have anything better to do that post on boards about it. I guess it's about the same as gloating over OJ Simpson finally being in jail despite getting away with murder.

I'm going to shut up now.

Good post.

[Kiwifan]

Good post.

Yep, pretty well summed it up for me. A shame really as I used to be SO passionate.

[Chief]

Excellent posts. This exemplary example of IRL futility has everyone missing the point....the series is saddled with these cars for the next 9 years with a TV contact locked in until 2017 on an unfindable cable outpost with no promotion or advertising letting the world knows it sucks. The perfect storm! Bwahahhahaa!:laugh:

[sadams]

Just proves that there was nothing wrong with the sport back in 1995. That is why we won't support it.:thumbup:

Truer words were never spoken.
There was absolutely NOTHING wrong in 1995 except the Idiot Grandson couldn't control it, so he destroyed it.

Thanks FTG

[Methanolandbrats]

Remember this POS? It is beautiful compared to it's replacement :saywhat:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/common/medialib/223/340509.jpg

[SteveH]

Atrocious can never be considered beautiful regardless to what it is compared to.

[Wheel-Nut]

Screwed.

[Rogue Leader]

I'm less on the "give it a chance to be great" fence and more on the "it is what it is, this is what we have, so why are we going over the same thing again and again."

Did TG screw up open wheel? Yes
Is it ever gonna go back to 1995? No
Does the "money is no object" formula work? No, look at Can-Am, or Sportscars even before the GA/ALMS split. Who else? How about Trans Am, DTM, GT1, etc, series that brought in big numbers at some points. Even F1 was looking a bit ragged for a while. It doesn't work.
Heck, is money anywhere near as available now than in 1995? No, once Tobacco got whacked it go damn hard for a lot of people.

No one has any doubt that TG screwed the pooch, but its done and over with, you can't change history. So the organizers are stuck with TG's mess, they need to put cars on track that are "safe" based on current safety standards, they do not want street parades which is what events like Monaco and Long Beach really end up as. Times are different... 1995 was 17 years ago. People since have shorter attention spans and have lived on a diet of NASCAR in that time period until now. They are trying to pull in fans that are part of a generation that plays Angry Birds instead of Super Mario, and has conversations at 160 characters. Hell having a beeper was a luxury back then, let alone a cellphone!

Lets face it hardcore fans like us don't pay the bills, and as I said 17 years is a LONG time, people die, things change, heck only ONE driver from 1995 (Paul Tracy) is even semi active as a driver in the sport, and only four teams (Penske, Ganassi, Coyne, and Foyt). Many of today's fans don't even remember anything but the previous crapwagons.

Its easy to Monday morning quarterback, but these guys are not TG, some of them are good at what they do (heck we were all Tony Cotman fans, then he went over and did some things we didn't like all of a sudden he sucks), and they have to provide a balance between trying to get new fans and retain old ones. Its not going to change the way we all want it to, its over.

So now we have a choice, we can continue to sit here and cry about it or we can say "well theres nothing I can do about it, but its better than nothing" because thats the option here, nothing. I can tell some of you would say "well then nothing is a good idea". I don't agree with that and I'm sure some of you would join me. I love racing, I race anything with wheels on it. I would race covered wagons if that was the option vs nothing.

Its still racing, and they are doing what they can to make it less contrived (too bad it took a drivers death to force that one on), and allow some freedom. They have 3 engine manufacturers which is the first time in many years (remember Champ Car was a spec series for the last 5 years and was planned to continue to be with the DP-01's whether you want to agree with it or not), and next year the option of 4 different aero packages to give the cars some identity, and who knows hopefully look better. Thats just about the best compromise before it becomes a money race like it was and the chances of anyone but Penske, Ganassi, or N/H winning a race were slim to none no matter how talented the driver. Forsythe was no super team, but once 3/4 of the top flight competition was gone they became quite competitive.

The series has some drivers we like (Will Power, Oriol Servia, Justin Wilson, Sebastian Bourdais, etc) that I would rather see in "top flight" open wheel rides than hopping into the occasional cab or begging for a sportscar ride. I mean really, we all know what everyone here wants, we have been whining about it since the unification in 2008.

Its not going to happen, get over it, and get on with your life. You can either choose to enjoy racing which is what this still is, or you can continue to feel angry and betrayed and give yourself agita over something you can't change or control. 17 years is a long time... heck 5 years (since Champ Car merged) is a long time. Its a sport, not your religion.

[Wheel-Nut]

What was that?? Did you guys feel it?? The devil is requesting a heater and fur coat!!

The frozen Alaskan Eskimo has the same viewpoint as us . . . :eek:

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?161866-New-thoughts-on-the-new-cars

J W -

New thoughts on the new cars

I thought in the static views I saw and a couple of short videos that the new car looked swoopy, even a little futuristic.

Wrong.

Covered with livery and set up with road course wings, they just look bulbous and dumb.

[Rocketdoc]

I'm less on the "give it a chance to be great" fence and more on the "it is what it is, this is what we have, so why are we going over the same thing again and again."

Did TG screw up open wheel? Yes
Is it ever gonna go back to 1995? No
Does the "money is no object" formula work? No, look at Can-Am, or Sportscars even before the GA/ALMS split. Who else? How about Trans Am, DTM, GT1, etc, series that brought in big numbers at some points. Even F1 was looking a bit ragged for a while. It doesn't work.
Heck, is money anywhere near as available now than in 1995? No, once Tobacco got whacked it go damn hard for a lot of people.

No one has any doubt that TG screwed the pooch, but its done and over with, you can't change history. So the organizers are stuck with TG's mess, they need to put cars on track that are "safe" based on current safety standards, they do not want street parades which is what events like Monaco and Long Beach really end up as. Times are different... 1995 was 17 years ago. People since have shorter attention spans and have lived on a diet of NASCAR in that time period until now. They are trying to pull in fans that are part of a generation that plays Angry Birds instead of Super Mario, and has conversations at 160 characters. Hell having a beeper was a luxury back then, let alone a cellphone!

Lets face it hardcore fans like us don't pay the bills, and as I said 17 years is a LONG time, people die, things change, heck only ONE driver from 1995 (Paul Tracy) is even semi active as a driver in the sport, and only four teams (Penske, Ganassi, Coyne, and Foyt). Many of today's fans don't even remember anything but the previous crapwagons.

Its easy to Monday morning quarterback, but these guys are not TG, some of them are good at what they do (heck we were all Tony Cotman fans, then he went over and did some things we didn't like all of a sudden he sucks), and they have to provide a balance between trying to get new fans and retain old ones. Its not going to change the way we all want it to, its over.

So now we have a choice, we can continue to sit here and cry about it or we can say "well theres nothing I can do about it, but its better than nothing" because thats the option here, nothing. I can tell some of you would say "well then nothing is a good idea". I don't agree with that and I'm sure some of you would join me. I love racing, I race anything with wheels on it. I would race covered wagons if that was the option vs nothing.

Its still racing, and they are doing what they can to make it less contrived (too bad it took a drivers death to force that one on), and allow some freedom. They have 3 engine manufacturers which is the first time in many years (remember Champ Car was a spec series for the last 5 years and was planned to continue to be with the DP-01's whether you want to agree with it or not), and next year the option of 4 different aero packages to give the cars some identity, and who knows hopefully look better. Thats just about the best compromise before it becomes a money race like it was and the chances of anyone but Penske, Ganassi, or N/H winning a race were slim to none no matter how talented the driver. Forsythe was no super team, but once 3/4 of the top flight competition was gone they became quite competitive.

The series has some drivers we like (Will Power, Oriol Servia, Justin Wilson, Sebastian Bourdais, etc) that I would rather see in "top flight" open wheel rides than hopping into the occasional cab or begging for a sportscar ride. I mean really, we all know what everyone here wants, we have been whining about it since the unification in 2008.

Its not going to happen, get over it, and get on with your life. You can either choose to enjoy racing which is what this still is, or you can continue to feel angry and betrayed and give yourself agita over something you can't change or control. 17 years is a long time... heck 5 years (since Champ Car merged) is a long time. Its a sport, not your religion.

Good post.

[gerhard911]

Its a sport, not your religion.

So I can assume the proselytizing will stop :irked:

If you can enjoy it for what it is, fine. Those of us who cannot, will not be converted.

[EDwardo]

I'm not converted.

[High Sided]

God grant me the serenity
to accept the cars I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.