Rule changes for Long Beach [Archive] - Page 2

TKGAngel

04-17-12, 04:35 PM

BTW: Before I get called on it, LB final actually DROPPED from overnight to a .32. Still up 45% from last yr., but it might just be stat. noise.

Per Jenna Fryer, the .32 is based off of the total nationwide numbers. The .46 is based off of the HH that actually receive NBCSN.

And Graham has been placed on 6-races probation for the wreck.

Ed_Severson

04-17-12, 05:02 PM

I know practically nothing about the Nielsen ratings or how they're calculated, but my understanding is that the margin of error is around a quarter point.

Until the needle starts moving up (or down, for that matter) more than that, throwing numbers around is pointless.

Methanolandbrats

04-17-12, 05:14 PM

**** no!

Got it :D I thought you meant "engineer" as in design, you meant "engineer" as in try to get the piece of **** to work. :gomer:

Ed_Severson

04-17-12, 05:31 PM

Got it :D I thought you meant "engineer" as in design, you meant "engineer" as in try to get the piece of **** to work. :gomer:

Bingo.

All in all, it's not a bad car (other than the aesthetics, which I'm still not entirely comfortable with). Would love more power and less weight, like every other engineer ever, but it's a good challenge and getting it to hook up is not an impossible task.

I hope next year we are given a lot more freedom, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

B3RACER1a

04-17-12, 06:06 PM

Bingo.

All in all, it's not a bad car (other than the aesthetics, which I'm still not entirely comfortable with). Would love more power and less weight, like every other engineer ever, but it's a good challenge and getting it to hook up is not an impossible task.

I hope next year we are given a lot more freedom, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

Just curious, is anyone talking about the "floating in air" episode from Long Beach? Seems that if there is going to be more freedom to play with aero kits and what not, that this would be a good time to address what, from watching video, seems to be the same problem that the old car had.

In my opinion, somebody from Indycar needs to understand how these cars behave when they are pitched up and/or turned sideways. Some wind tunnel time, an example of the current car, the old car, and some past CART cars may really support some design change.

SurfaceUnits

04-17-12, 06:11 PM

They could chop 60% off the width of the under tray, but that would require too much skill from the drivers

gerhard911

04-17-12, 06:18 PM

It was written about extensively, but sure ... anything I can do to help.:

Obviously I am not well read when it comes to IICS news, mostly it comes from here and Smack. Attempting to become better informed I did a Google search of "DW12 weight distribution". This turned up quite a few hits, but none on the first page had any specifics. This was the most informative (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-dallara-commits-to-dw12-updates/), but only indicated a "commitment" by Dallara to fix the problem.

Not sure I would agree that the specifics of the solution you revealed were "written about extensively", but again I thank you for your informed response.

Methanolandbrats

04-17-12, 06:26 PM

Ed_Severson

04-17-12, 06:32 PM

Just curious, is anyone talking about the "floating in air" episode from Long Beach?

I can only answer for my team, but ...

Trucks got home this morning, and we load for Brazil on Friday. It didn't happen to us, so it's not on our radar and we don't have time right now to talk it over. We barely have the time and manpower to deal with all the things we can control, so there's no point in occupying ourselves with the things we can't control. Not trying to be trite, that's just the way it is.

I'm sure it got Will Phillips's attention but it has not come up around the shop. I think most of us haven't even seen the race yet -- I know I haven't.

Obviously I am not well read when it comes to IICS news, mostly it comes from here and Smack. Attempting to become better informed I did a Google search of "DW12 weight distribution". This turned up quite a few hits, but none on the first page had any specifics. This was the most informative, but only indicated a "commitment" by Dallara to fix the problem.

Not sure I would agree that the specifics of the solution you revealed were "written about extensively", but again I thank you for your informed response.

Fair enough. I suppose if you were a regular reader of IndyCar news you'd have probably heard about it, but perhaps it wasn't public knowledge in a mainstream sense. Then again, if you weren't a regular reader of IndyCar news I don't know why you'd care to read an article about redesigned suspension components.

Chief

04-17-12, 06:36 PM

Just curious, is anyone talking about the "floating in air" episode from Long Beach?

Easy B3, you wouldn't want to offend an engineer of one of these magnificent machines. These babies don't fly and fenceposts don't move...this is a dangerous sport, blah blah blah. I've been told you didn't see what you saw, and everything worked as designed. No one can ever question the great decisions made by the all powerful Indianapolis Motor Speedway. :shakehead (sorry Ed)

Methanolandbrats

04-17-12, 06:44 PM

cameraman

04-17-12, 07:05 PM

Easy B3, you wouldn't want to offend an engineer of one of these magnificent machines. These babies don't fly and fenceposts don't move...this is a dangerous sport, blah blah blah. I've been told you didn't see what you saw, and everything worked as designed. No one can ever question the great decisions made by the all powerful Indianapolis Motor Speedway. :shakehead (sorry Ed)

Micro hit Rahal's car every bit as hard as Webber hit Kovalainen just more off center. Any open wheel car would have reacted in the much the same way. The car could have gone up or submarined under, it went up. Micro's car acted as a jump ramp and the new car did not fly nearly as well as the old one would have. You pull the same idiot trick with a Lola and you would get much the same result. I have seen it happen with GP2 cars. You don't see it that often because most drivers are not as stupid as Micro & Rahal.

The common thread is idiot drivers, Viso in this case. The second crash in the clip...

kkSr1rQ0W1g

Ed_Severson

04-17-12, 07:15 PM

Ed, do you have time to hit the beef bars in Brazil? I have not been there, but a buddy who shoots F1 said it is the best meat on the planet. My friend ate near David Coulthard in one of Coulthard's last breakout years. :D

Should have some free time, but not sure I'll be able to take advantage of it. I'd like to think there are plenty of good eats to be found in Sao Paulo; it's the taxi ride to get to them that is a bit iffy. My Portuguese is not good enough to know if I'm being taken to dinner or an involuntary liver donation center. :D

gerhard911

04-17-12, 07:22 PM

Just learn the phrase "We don't want to buy any hats!" in Portuguese and Bernie says you will be fine :laugh:

Methanolandbrats

04-17-12, 08:34 PM

Should have some free time, but not sure I'll be able to take advantage of it. I'd like to think there are plenty of good eats to be found in Sao Paulo; it's the taxi ride to get to them that is a bit iffy. My Portuguese is not good enough to know if I'm being taken to dinner or an involuntary liver donation center. :D

Right about the logistics. When my friend got his first F1 shoot in Brazil, the veteran photo corp started taking bets on whether the rookie American would make to the hotel and back the entire weekend.:rofl:

Indy

04-17-12, 09:20 PM

Hey Ed, how's the traction control working?

SurfaceUnits

04-17-12, 09:28 PM

the new car did not fly nearly as well as the old one would have. Viso in this case. The second crash in the clip.. Same undertray, maybe more, you have no evidence to make that conclusion. Ernesto's car didn't have enough undertray to fly good liek an Italian made IRLcar can

Ed_Severson

04-17-12, 09:42 PM

Hey Ed, how's the traction control working?

Depends on who you ask. :D

gerhard911

04-17-12, 09:50 PM

Depends on who you ask. :D

What's ,,,,,,,,,,, got to say?

Ed_Severson

04-17-12, 10:02 PM

What's ,,,,,,,,,,, got to say?

Probably something pathetically self-unaware, if anything at all.

Saw him at Sebring during the open test, trying to weasel his way in to visit his "friends". If I never saw that flaming ******* ever again, it would still be too soon.

Did I say that out loud? :gomer:

extramundane

04-17-12, 11:04 PM

Probably something pathetically self-unaware, if anything at all.

Saw him at Sebring during the open test, trying to weasel his way in to visit his "friends". If I never saw that flaming ******* ever again, it would still be too soon.

Did I say that out loud? :gomer:

Peace,,,,in,,,,racing Ed. :gomer:

B3RACER1a

04-17-12, 11:43 PM

I can only answer for my team, but ...

Trucks got home this morning, and we load for Brazil on Friday. It didn't happen to us, so it's not on our radar and we don't have time right now to talk it over. We barely have the time and manpower to deal with all the things we can control, so there's no point in occupying ourselves with the things we can't control. Not trying to be trite, that's just the way it is.

I'm sure it got Will Phillips's attention but it has not come up around the shop. I think most of us haven't even seen the race yet -- I know I haven't.

No problem, Ed! :thumbup:

Engineer here too, so when I observe something that may be a problem, immediate reaction is to try and come up with something to fix it.

High Sided

04-18-12, 01:04 AM

Ed, do you have time to hit the beef bars in Brazil?. :D

The only pink meat i'd be looking to eat in a Brazilian bar walks on two legs. ;)

might find david coulthard there too.

Hard Driver

04-18-12, 01:20 AM

I'm too lazy to round up all the crash footage again, you do the leg work. The leap I was referring to was your less-than scientific conclusion that the new car is better despite the "crash" defeating each of the things the new car was designed to prevent.

Watch the crash footage of Jeff Krosnoff and tell me this wasn't better for the same kind of accident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kODJoZwik_E

Hard Driver

04-18-12, 01:23 AM

Same undertray, maybe more, you have no evidence to make that conclusion. Ernesto's car didn't have enough undertray to fly good liek an Italian made IRLcar can

Then you don't know that the new car has a completely different undertray with Venturi tunnels just like a CART car.

Hard Driver

04-18-12, 01:45 AM

Thank you for a (finally) non-antagonistic, factual response. A much better solution that apparently didn't get the press that the ballast "experiment" did.

Those that wish to see the IICS & Dallara regarded in a more positive, professional light would do well to make this kind of information more readily available.

If anyone is interested in an informative technical analysis of the new car by Speedtv, watch the two tech videos on this page:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/video-2012-dallara-dw12-tech-review-pt-2/

Ziggy

04-18-12, 08:08 AM

I thought Ed was a writer

:confused:

They did come out with new suspension bits after the ballast test. Two percent, must have made it a monster, nimble as a BT52

Chief

04-18-12, 10:57 AM

Watch the crash footage of Jeff Krosnoff and tell me this wasn't better for the same kind of accident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kODJoZwik_E

Better? For what reason? Because Marco didn't catapult into a tree without catchfencing? Because Jeff defeated the rear bumpers on Stefan's car? How come Mario's car didn't become airborne when he hit tire to tire of Roberto's Alpha-Romeo on that same backstretch? So many questions....:confused:

Poor example above... The rear wheel is essentially enclosed on the DW12 and Marco still launched, was the purpose of the bumper/rear bodywork defeated, did it actually work or was it circumvented? Which is it?

SurfaceUnits

04-18-12, 12:43 PM

BTW: Before I get called on it, LB final actually DROPPED from overnight to a .32. Still up 45% from last yr., but it might just be stat. noise.

That is ackshully a 9% drop

dando

04-18-12, 12:57 PM

Not sure if I feel more like this:

http://uncommonshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/monty-python-black-knight.jpg

or this:

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/122/7/8/beating_a_dead_horse_by_potatoehuman-d3fead4.jpg

Reading these threads. Not sayin'. Just sayin'. :saywhat:

-Kevin

04-18-12, 02:06 PM

What's ,,,,,,,,,,, got to say?

Who the **** knows?!?

Some,,, say all,,,,, everybody,,,,, years past,,,, again reminded,,,,, deniers all,,,,gibber****

:saywhat:

TravelGal

04-18-12, 03:36 PM

Who the **** knows?!?

Some,,, say all,,,,, everybody,,,,, years past,,,, again reminded,,,,, deniers all,,,,gibber****

:saywhat:

My laugh for the day. Yes, you remember it well.

Chief

04-18-12, 03:45 PM

IndyCar says that the new safety features built into the DW12 chassis performed exactly as they were designed to at last weekend's race at Long Beach, despite Marco Andretti's car being launched skyward following a collision with Ganassi's Graham Rahal.......

IndyCar vice president of technology Will Phillips said that the shallow angle and higher closing speed of Andretti's car relative to Rahal's contributed to the nature of the accident, but that it would have been more severe had the DW12's safety measures not been in place.

Bwahahhahha. :rofl::gomer:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98938

Methanolandbrats

04-18-12, 10:33 PM

The only pink meat i'd be looking to eat in a Brazilian bar walks on two legs. ;)

might find david coulthard there too.

Pack some Plastic Wrap.:D

trauma1

04-19-12, 09:08 PM

Bwahahhahha. :rofl::gomer:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98938

Just imigaine what's going to happen at Indy or texas if that happens again:shakehead:shakehead:confused:

Chief

04-20-12, 09:59 AM

Just imigaine what's going to happen at Indy or texas if that happens again:shakehead:shakehead:confused:

IMHO, this PR sez to me (just like the exhaustive Las Vegas report said) it's a dangerous sport and accidents do happen, so expect carnage, injuries and death because we've done our due diligence towards safety so move along there's nothing to see here. Good luck schmucks.

Rusty Wallace said he wouldn't get out of an electric chair to drive one of them deathtraps. Rusty was a wise man.... :laugh:

Methanolandbrats

04-20-12, 10:11 AM

^^^but Kenny would :laugh:

stroker

04-20-12, 02:57 PM

^^^but Kenny would :laugh:

They killed Kenny! You bastards!

JohnHKart

04-21-12, 04:09 AM

IMHO, this PR sez to me (just like the exhaustive Las Vegas report said) it's a dangerous sport and accidents do happen, so expect carnage, injuries and death because we've done our due diligence towards safety so move along there's nothing to see here. Good luck schmucks.

Rusty Wallace said he wouldn't get out of an electric chair to drive one of them deathtraps. Rusty was a wise man.... :laugh:

Although the s boxes are dangerous I think the death toll in cup was higher during the length of his career than in crapwagons.

SurfaceUnits

04-21-12, 10:18 AM

Although the s boxes are dangerous I think the death toll in cup was higher during the length of his career than in crapwagons.

cup had 2-3x the number of races per year.
cup had 2-3x the number of cars per race.
cup didn't turn a local hospital into a national leader for the treatment of broken spines.