View Full Version : Rule changes for Long Beach
Rogue Leader
04-09-12, 07:48 PM
Pits are open immediately on yellows, and lapped traffic has to get to the back of the bus on restarts in the last 20 laps of all road/street races.
http://www.indycar.com/News/2012/April/4-09-Pits-open-during-full-course-cautions.aspx
Barfield is the best thing that has happened to IndyCar since someone stole Tony George's car.
Is that "a step forward!?" Careful now.:saywhat:
Methanolandbrats
04-09-12, 10:34 PM
Barfield is the best thing that has happened to IndyCar since someone stole Tony George's car.
A monkey just flew out of my ass and my sock tethers snapped at the same time. :saywhat:
opinionated ow
04-09-12, 11:00 PM
Pits are open immediately on yellows, and lapped traffic has to get to the back of the bus on restarts in the last 20 laps of all road/street races.
http://www.indycar.com/News/2012/April/4-09-Pits-open-during-full-course-cautions.aspx
First part good, second part bad. Why should others not have to overtake lap traffic?
Hard Driver
04-09-12, 11:33 PM
First part good, second part bad. Why should others not have to overtake lap traffic?
Because the lapped traffic in Indycar does not have a blue flag. If this was the almighty F1, a blue flag would wave and if lapped traffic did not move over, they would be penalized. Why, because the point is to put on a race and if the leaders are racing each other, having lapped traffic block interferes with the racing.
In Indycar, a lapped car can fight to keep from going further back... But seriously, if you are already lapped and it is the end of the race, are you really going to be able to pass the leader and unlap yourself. And while I am all for trying to keep racing from too many gimmicks, the truth is that it is a sporting event and that professional sporting events are run for entertainment. Having some backmarker block the 2nd place car as the leader drives off into the distance is not putting on the best sporting event vs having the leaders race.
opinionated ow
04-10-12, 03:16 AM
Because the lapped traffic in Indycar does not have a blue flag. If this was the almighty F1, a blue flag would wave and if lapped traffic did not move over, they would be penalized. Why, because the point is to put on a race and if the leaders are racing each other, having lapped traffic block interferes with the racing.
In Indycar, a lapped car can fight to keep from going further back... But seriously, if you are already lapped and it is the end of the race, are you really going to be able to pass the leader and unlap yourself. And while I am all for trying to keep racing from too many gimmicks, the truth is that it is a sporting event and that professional sporting events are run for entertainment. Having some backmarker block the 2nd place car as the leader drives off into the distance is not putting on the best sporting event vs having the leaders race.
I don't like the move over to blue flags in F1 either. If you catch someone from behind you should have to find your own way past just as if it were for position. To artificially change the running order of cars is a gimmick all about appealing to the lowest common denominator. It's not fair on the guy who has had to fight his way through already. If you've fought hard enough for your advantage it is bad enough that you lose it under safety car. To lose even more of what you have fought for is unsporting.
Sport is not entertainment; sport is entertaining. The sport shouldn't change the rules to make it a farcical spectacle and if it is being marketed as entertainment it is being marketed wrong.
Easier to play with the rules than to fix the real problems. :rolleyes:
Easier to play with the rules than to fix the real problems. :rolleyes:
Elmo shoots, he SCORES! :thumbup:
What are the real problems? :gomer:
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2408/longbeachj.jpg
http://photo.paddocktalk.com/PaulHurley/2012-IndyCar-St-Pete/i-vCzkCPV/0/L/Ed-Carpenter024-L.jpg
I can't see a difference.
Awesome! F-1 returns to Long Beach!!:gomer:
A monkey just flew out of my ass and my sock tethers snapped at the same time. :saywhat:
:laugh:
As someone who would prefer that Indycar go away, I can't really be happy that he is making improvements. But to be fair to the guy, he is doing really, really smart things. The word on the street is that the teams are more confident in the officiating than they have been since CART.
Hard Driver
04-10-12, 08:46 PM
Awesome! F-1 returns to Long Beach!!:gomer:
F1 back from the era of grooved tires.:saywhat:
Still be a huge improvement.
TravelGal
04-12-12, 12:00 AM
Apropos of none of this discussion, I noticed that Groupon has every session half price. Even the ones you can get for free if you're connected. ;)
Half price? About right. Connected, even better. The Mile setup looks absolutely desperate as well. Free Friday, low ticket prices, 1 "support" race, no Sunday. We might be able to hear the crickets above those turbos! I guess they're hoping the Infield "IndyFest" and beer and brat sales will allow them to break even? I think I'll go Friday because it may be the last time...ever.:(
Methanolandbrats
04-12-12, 10:18 AM
^^^Mikey Motorsport sent me an email and friday infield is "under $20". Grandstands are free.
Wheel-Nut
04-12-12, 02:06 PM
I wonder if it will finish like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLo0yYRXUfE
Kiwifan
04-12-12, 02:07 PM
^^^Mikey Motorsport sent me an email and friday infield is "under $20". Grandstands are free.
Oh how the Mighty have fallen. :shakehead To think I used to pay $A380 (by 3) for a 4 day weekend pass to see the Champ Cars.....and the stands were full
SurfaceUnits
04-12-12, 03:25 PM
Chevrolet to pull all 11 IndyCar engines
Story user rating:
JENNA FRYER
Published: 59 minutes ago
LONG BEACH, Calif. (AP) - Chevrolet's strong start in its return to IndyCar suffered a significant setback Thursday when the manufacturer decided to change the engines for all 11 of its teams before they open the weekend at Long Beach.
The change means all 11 Chevrolet drivers will drop 10 spots on the starting grid before Sunday's race under an IndyCar rule that prohibits engine changes before each one has completed 1,850 miles.
Chevrolet IndyCar program manager Chris Berube says the problem was discovered during Monday's open test session at Sonoma. The engine for James Hinchcliffe blew up during the test. Chevy gave him a new one, and IndyCar said Hinchcliffe would be penalized.
Now Berube says the problem could affect all its engines.
"This is certainly a decision that was not made lightly," said Chris Berube, program manager for Chevrolet's IndyCar effort. "We intently discussed the situation with our partners and our teams prior to determining that this was the best course of action to preserve the integrity of the racing in the IZOD IndyCar Series."
Wheel-Nut
04-12-12, 03:57 PM
Spacergate?
Methanolandbrats
04-12-12, 05:49 PM
Chevrolet to pull all 11 IndyCar engines
Story user rating:
JENNA FRYER
Published: 59 minutes ago
LONG BEACH, Calif. (AP) - Chevrolet's strong start in its return to IndyCar suffered a significant setback Thursday when the manufacturer decided to change the engines for all 11 of its teams before they open the weekend at Long Beach.
The change means all 11 Chevrolet drivers will drop 10 spots on the starting grid before Sunday's race under an IndyCar rule that prohibits engine changes before each one has completed 1,850 miles.
Chevrolet IndyCar program manager Chris Berube says the problem was discovered during Monday's open test session at Sonoma. The engine for James Hinchcliffe blew up during the test. Chevy gave him a new one, and IndyCar said Hinchcliffe would be penalized.
Now Berube says the problem could affect all its engines.
"This is certainly a decision that was not made lightly," said Chris Berube, program manager for Chevrolet's IndyCar effort. "We intently discussed the situation with our partners and our teams prior to determining that this was the best course of action to preserve the integrity of the racing in the IZOD IndyCar Series."
Look on the bright side, at least they had some spare lumps :rofl:
SurfaceUnits
04-12-12, 06:50 PM
HAy CHIef wared you git that HOnda GRandP Rix of Long BEach pitcher? :laugh:
I was browsing imageshack, and it popped up! Danged IRL rascals, they can't git nuttin by us old geezers. :p;):laugh:
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2408/longbeachj.jpg
http://www.gplb.com/images/GP_header-1500d.jpg
Good thing the QC PR-tards over at the Speedway HQ missed the email outlining the TOYOTA involvement....:D
Did any of the posting IRL hero's actually sack up and buy a ticket to this race?
I am a dumb hillbilly from Indianer and I went five times. It costed me monei and sheet.
watch it, it's all we have left :tony::tony::rofl:
Don Quixote
04-13-12, 04:20 PM
Honda, Toyoter, what's the difference? :laugh:
cameraman
04-14-12, 02:11 PM
It takes a special kind of stupid to do this.
X6mshAP6oX4
It takes a special kind of stupid to do this.
So who's the U-boat commander? :gomer:
-Kevin
With all that video eggcitement is it any wonder this came out today...and picked up by every media outlet everywhere? Who sez they don't get PR? :laugh:
IndyCar's television ratings are down through the first two races of the season, at a time the series believes it has its best competition in years and intriguing storylines that could attract a wider audience. But the race at Barber drew just a .25 on cable channel NBC Sports Network, and the Nielsen ratings company estimated it was watched live in only 218,000 homes.
"It's a pity because it's such a good product, good racing, good teams, good drivers and it's just not getting out there and that's unfortunate," Power said. "Barber was one of the best races in a long time, and no one got to see it."
So what's the fix?
"NBC has to advertise more, it's as simple as that, if they care about IndyCar," Power said.
Indycar agonizes over hideous TV ratings (http://www.wthr.com/story/17452669/indycar-suffering-through-slumping-tv-ratings)
With all that video eggcitement is it any wonder this came out today...and picked up by every media outlet everywhere? Who sez they don't get PR? :laugh:
Indycar agonizes over hideous TV ratings (http://www.wthr.com/story/17452669/indycar-suffering-through-slumping-tv-ratings)
NBC can't even sell it's own shows, so even if they did advertise more, it would be to the moths in the closet.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47009569
-Kevin
Thx to snafu at smackedworld for finding this gem...hAy Racing Truth, quite an embarassment for the well oiled machine, eh? :laugh:
You want confusion? Panther Racing, which runs J.R. Hildebrand, headed its post-qualifying session release this way: "Hildebrand qualifies 16th in Long Beach, expected to start 20th?"
(WAIT A MINUTE! STOP THE PRESSES! THAT'S ONLY A FOUR-GRID-POSITION PENALTY! WHO'S IN CHARGE THERE? OH, I FORGOT. IT'S INDYCAR!)
IRL Long Beach screwed the pooch REAL good (http://thestar.blogs.com/autoracing/izod-indycar-series/)
TKGAngel
04-15-12, 06:46 PM
Today's race (what I saw during breaks of Pens/Flyers) showed that the wheel touching problem is not solved.
And while I've been watching NBCSN every night for the past week, there have been minimal promos for the Indycar series. I don't know if it's necessarily the network not wanting to promote the events, or if it's the network not having the commercial inventory to promote the ads. (Why air house promos if you have paying customers?) I will be really interested to see what today's numbers are, especially since the league was competing against both an NHL game and an NBA game.
Plus, how many households even have access to NBCSN? I don't. I heard it was another good race though, with a tight finish...but a bunch of guys all trying to be first out of the hairpin on the final lap. Total blockage! Not that we haven't seen THAT before. Interested to see how they sort the finishing order.:D
SurfaceUnits
04-15-12, 08:00 PM
hVW6Fy04UB0
SurfaceUnits
04-15-12, 08:01 PM
Plus, how many households even have access to NBCSN?
75 million
A part of the NBC Sports Group, NBC Sports Network is the 24/7 cable platform for NBC Sports' rich heritage of unmatched storytelling, best-in-class production and utilizing broad promotion to make big events bigger. Now in more than 75 million homes, NBC Sports Network serves sports fans by airing coverage of the Olympic Games and Trials as well as the National Hockey League (NHL), Major League Soccer (MLS), IZOD IndyCar Series, Tour de France, major college football, basketball and hockey, and horse racing surrounding the Triple Crown, among other events. The network's original programming, such as Costas Tonight, NFL Turning Point and NBC SportsTalk, exemplifies NBC Sports' ability to tell stories and provide meaningful, relevant content. The network is also home to the best outdoor programming on television. NBC Sports Network, which prides itself on serving sports fans across multiple platforms, is distributed via cable, satellite and telco operators throughout the United States.
DagoFast
04-15-12, 08:17 PM
75 million
Leaving 74,750,000 Households who dgaf.
SurfaceUnits
04-15-12, 08:23 PM
Leaving 74,750,000 Households who dgaf.
minus the handful of gomers who claim to care but won't spend 5 bucks a month to get the leegs broadcasts
Maybe it it just me, but that thing really looked like it wanted to take flight. :saywhat:
hVW6Fy04UB0
High Sided
04-15-12, 08:34 PM
minus the handful of gomers who claim to care but won't spend 5 bucks a month to get the leegs broadcasts
my ********* neighbor wouldn't spring for the extra 5 bucks with his son inlaw in the nhl playoffs last year??? i guess with all the crap i gave him it was worth the 5 bucks not to ask me to watch it here this year. :tony:
SurfaceUnits
04-15-12, 08:35 PM
Maybe it it just me, but that thing really looked like it wanted to take flight. :saywhat:
why wouldn't it, it's the same car with different body parts
SurfaceUnits
04-15-12, 08:36 PM
my ********* neighbor wouldn't spring for the extra 5 bucks with his son inlaw in the nhl playoffs last year??? i guess with all the crap i gave him it was worth the 5 bucks not to ask me to watch it here this year. :tony:
does he have a permanent seat on the only hockey forum
Maybe it it just me, but that thing really looked like it wanted to take flight. :saywhat:
Not even a high speed part on the track.
Hard Driver
04-15-12, 10:28 PM
Maybe it it just me, but that thing really looked like it wanted to take flight. :saywhat:
No it didn't. It looked like many other open wheel crashes. However, it did show that the bumpers won't completely eliminate the ability to launch a car.
However, it also looked like Rahal should get a penalty the next race for dangerous driving. Rahal definitely turned into him on purpose. He said that the turn in was when he was hit, but it definitely was before the impact.
gerhard911
04-15-12, 10:41 PM
Does Dullarha even have a rolling road wind tunnel? If so, do they bother to put their crapwagon designs in it? If yes to both, HTF does this keep happening :confused:
:hapless:
SurfaceUnits
04-15-12, 11:00 PM
No it didn't. It looked like many other open wheel crashes. However, it did show that the bumpers won't completely eliminate the ability to launch a car.
However, it also looked like Rahal should get a penalty the next race for dangerous driving. Rahal definitely turned into him on purpose. He said that the turn in was when he was hit, but it definitely was before the impact.
Parko hit him on that new doomahicky thingy they put behind the rear wheels to keep the cars from flying, that is what made him turn in.
Leave it to the gomer pilots to circumvent any and all attempts to keep them on the ground
They will be in the equivalent of Grand Am cars within 10 years.
No it didn't. It looked like many other open wheel crashes. However, it did show that the bumpers won't completely eliminate the ability to launch a car.
I don't think they are flying ala crapwagons, but it didn't look like he was launched into the air as much as he took flight when the car rotated. The nose got popped up and looked to be headed down when the car rotated and got light.
They will be in the equivalent of Grand Am cars within 10 years.
10 years? They are now.
Don Quixote
04-16-12, 10:14 AM
They will be in the equivalent of Grand Am cars within 10 years.I can't imagine this will last 10 more years, but I said that 10 years ago......
Methanolandbrats
04-16-12, 10:26 AM
I don't think they are flying ala crapwagons, but it didn't look like he was launched into the air as much as he took flight when the car rotated. The nose got popped up and looked to be headed down when the car rotated and got light.
Was not even going that fast. Imagine that frisbee job at Indy. Remember all the dirty air from the butt takes downforce off of the following car too, another fun fact for Mindy.
It looked like many other open wheel crashes. However, it did show that the bumpers won't completely eliminate the ability to launch a car.
BS. I question whether the stiffness of the wings/bumper caused another *perfect storm* here. Neither bumper nor wing were damaged. If you are gonna screw up a car design, do it right and make the bumpers WIDER. And yes, I am calling the front wing a bumper now because it won't break unless under extreme attack.
Look at these two pictures...and you tell me straight faced how these cars can still get airborne? They do, and this car design is a failure already....from looks and safety performance.
http://motorsportswelcome.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/hinchcliffe-barber-rain-2012.jpg
http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/marco-andretti--anne-proffit-photo_100388246_m.jpg
SurfaceUnits
04-16-12, 12:43 PM
http://i42.tinypic.com/2nulkl4.png
Look at that wing surface area
Makes a French Mirage pilot jealous
http://images.fast-air.co.uk/080705-RAF-Waddington/French-Air-Force-Mirage-2000C-Photo-2.jpg
So one of you Einsteins tell me again it isn't designed to fly
Methanolandbrats
04-16-12, 01:42 PM
The thing looks like a conference table with wheels. Geezus.
SurfaceUnits
04-16-12, 03:13 PM
Nope, that meat grinders table didn't give it no uplift at all
http://i43.tinypic.com/5pqwxw.png
trauma1
04-16-12, 04:10 PM
and it has 30lbs of lead in the nose for ballast because the shitwagon had to much weight and downforce in the rear, IMO the reason they have the air scoop instead of a roll hoop is that they had pitch and yaw problems and thought that little fin would take car of it.Now the rumor is that they will extend the fin to the rear wing like the LMP1's in ALMS to keep it from flying:gomer::gomer:
Ed_Severson
04-16-12, 04:39 PM
and it has 30lbs of lead in the nose for ballast
False.
B3RACER1a
04-16-12, 06:08 PM
Trackforum has a big ol' trainwreck of a thread about needing to redesign the bumpers...lol. :D
Anyways, my thoughts after watching the youtube of the crash:
Sure, they hit each other fairly hard, and the tires touched. Those puny bumpers aren't going to stop rubber on rubber contact with the type of incident, or any incident with any amount of speed difference. Might as well take them off.
There is a big difference between being forced into the air because of a quick external force (aka tire to tire contact) and aero dependent lift when pitched or yawed. The latter makes the car fly rather than returning to earth.
What they need to address still, like in the past 15 years or so, is the design of the undertray that doesn't fly like a kite once there is any pitch or yaw in the car relative to air. Why this is so hard, I don't get.
I'm going to predict that the new car (in it's current form) will be just as bad, if not worse, at taking flight than the old one.
The new car has MORE flat surface underneath it to create lift underneath when pitched or yawed, and not only that, there's no angled up air spoilers at the edges to let the air escape when it does get pitched or yawed. And to top it off, the POS has more rear weight bias than the old car.
Not one cause of the old car flying was fixed with this new one.
WTH were these engineers on when made this thing?! :irked:
B3RACER1a
04-16-12, 06:09 PM
http://i42.tinypic.com/2nulkl4.png
Look at that wing surface area
Makes a French Mirage pilot jealous
http://images.fast-air.co.uk/080705-RAF-Waddington/French-Air-Force-Mirage-2000C-Photo-2.jpg
So one of you Einsteins tell me again it isn't designed to fly
Exactly! :thumbup:
Now the rumor is that they will extend the fin to the rear wing like the LMP1's in ALMS to keep it from flying:gomer::gomer:
I like that idea. Even uglier. :gomer::gomer::gomer:
TKGAngel
04-16-12, 07:37 PM
The Indycar race drew a .35 in the overnights. (The NHL game on NBC in the same time frame drew a 2.3, just as a comparison.)
And Mario is perturbed that Rahal insulted the sainted Andretti family name (and him, by extension) with his post race comments.
Racing Truth
04-16-12, 08:14 PM
The Indycar race drew a .35 in the overnights. (The NHL game on NBC in the same time frame drew a 2.3, just as a comparison.)
And Mario is perturbed that Rahal insulted the sainted Andretti family name (and him, by extension) with his post race comments.
That .35, BTW, is actually up 21% from last yr., which just shows how low it is. NBCSN finals tend to go up, so I'd guess a .4 final.
On the "incident," Marco made a hopeless divebomb, to which Rahal stupidly chopped. Double FAIL.:shakehead On the flight, yeah, undertray is too big. Last yrs. car would still be in orbit, IMHO.
Methanolandbrats
04-16-12, 09:05 PM
And Mario is perturbed that Rahal insulted the sainted Andretti family name (and him, by extension) with his post race comments.
**** all three of them.
That .35, BTW, is actually up 21% from last yr., which just shows how low it is. NBCSN finals tend to go up, so I'd guess a .4 final.
On the "incident," Marco made a hopeless divebomb, to which Rahal stupidly chopped. Double FAIL.:shakehead On the flight, yeah, undertray is too big. Last yrs. car would still be in orbit, IMHO.
For reference
St Pete 0.9 ABC, down from 1.4 (Tiger Woods wins)
Barber 0.25 NBCSN, down from 0.34 (NCAA)
Long Beach 0.35 NBCSN, up from 0.28 (no competition but they advertised on NBCSN and Stanley Cup came on at bottom of the hour)
Overall, pathetic. However I disagree....last years car would have sheered off the front wing of Marco and flatted Rahals rear tire. I believe this would have helped dissipate energy and kept both cars on ground. This year, Marco pounded him with the unbreakable wing and then got sent directly into the rear wheel. The car blows, thats the problem.
SurfaceUnits
04-16-12, 09:54 PM
Why this is so hard, I don't get.
it's called full throtle 360 on them ovals that are beloved by them there gomers
http://i44.tinypic.com/15ph9o8.gif
It is going to take someone important getting killed before any change comes
SurfaceUnits
04-16-12, 10:01 PM
That .35, BTW, is actually up 21% from last yr., which just shows how low it is. NBCSN finals tend to go up, so I'd guess a .4 final. .
The overnights are from a select group of wine and cheese markets audiences. Gomerville stats are collected later for the final.
trauma1
04-16-12, 10:28 PM
False.
sorry 26lbs of lead
from ESPN
The car's handling got better during the most recent round of testing at Homestead-Miami Speedway, but the improvement came from an extreme measure: Placing 26 pounds of lead ballast in the nose of the car to balance out the weight distribution.
http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/7375857/indycar-new-dallara-chassis-proving-difficult-sort-out
SurfaceUnits
04-17-12, 12:04 AM
It is the same car from the monocoque back, with a new nose job. After being told the new car was going to be half the price of the old car, Dallara immediately launched a multi-million euro R&D program to design the new car. No they didn't.
Everyone knows the only way to learn whether or not you got the weght distrubution correct during your multi-million euro R&D program is to wait until it is on the track and then go, huh, I guess we missed that during our multi-million euro R&D program. The old was a flyer and the follow up is as well.
:laugh: This thread is grate.
Gather round children for the story of the hapless IRL. It was a dark and stormy night...
Rogue Leader
04-17-12, 07:46 AM
Did any of the posting IRL hero's actually sack up and buy a ticket to this race?
I am a dumb hillbilly from Indianer and I went five times. It costed me monei and sheet.
watch it, it's all we have left :tony::tony::rofl:
I was racing my own car this weekend, takes a bit of priority. And no I'm not an IRL hero, but you can keep thinking that.
As for Marco's car flying, last years car would have been on its rollbar in that wreck. you can't stop physics, wheel on wheel contact is going to cause a car to get some air, the fact it DIDN'T go over shows its at least better than last year's heap, but who knows if its yet perfect. I thought the bumpers were supposed to prevent this type of crash but Grahms clearly failed at it.
Ed_Severson
04-17-12, 08:15 AM
sorry 26lbs of lead
Still false. Nobody is running ballast in the nosebox. It was done once during a test as a science experiment, the point was proven, and new parts were manufactured.
Rex Karz
04-17-12, 08:19 AM
Some gomer over at TF put the overnight rating in perspective: If you took the total viewership of the LBGP and distributed them equally among all 50 states (not accurate, of course, but illustrative) that would work out to something around 7,000 viewers per state.
7,000 viewers in Nevada might be epic, but 7,000 viewers in California is epic fail.
WTH were these engineers on when made this thing?! :irked:
Kickbacks, a budget, and last models' notes.
Some gomer over at TF put the overnight rating in perspective: If you took the total viewership of the LBGP and distributed them equally among all 50 states (not accurate, of course, but illustrative) that would work out to something around 7,000 viewers per state.
How do you even cook that plan up? I'd prefer to see distribution broken down by metro cities, or state names ending in a vowel, only in the "blue states" ;):rolleyes:.
Often criticized as a key problem, actually TV coverage is better (we can debate the talking heads) - yet ratings are poor. Hmmm :rolleyes:
I blame the elite media OR solar storms OR the economy OR... some other external problem. 'Cause we know it can't be the product. Right?
That is about .1 percent of the US population. Which means that in my small town, about 15 people watched it. Which doesn't really work here, because there is a significant concentration of racing industry people, but in the abstract it is a telling statistic.
Just imagine that you are a local advertiser here. Would you pay to stuff 15,000 mailboxes with flyers that only 15 people would ever see? Or, to put it another way, the total sponsorship for the series and the teams is probably about $25 million for the series and $3 million per car, Indy-specific spending excluded. So people are spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 million per to reach 350,000 eyeballs per race. If there are 20 races, that's about $14 per impact. How in the hell can that be justified?
chop456
04-17-12, 08:51 AM
that's about $14 per impact.
No pun intended.
Don Quixote
04-17-12, 08:55 AM
**** all three of them.And all of their relatives going back 5 generations, and all of their offspring, present and future.
wheel on wheel contact is going to cause a car to get some air, the fact it DIDN'T go over shows its at least better than last year's heap, but who knows if its yet perfect.
Quite a logic leap there.....:confused:
Rogue Leader
04-17-12, 10:11 AM
Quite a logic leap there.....:confused:
Take a look at the last 10 years how many times the same type of accident ended with the car on its roll hoop. Theres is NOTHING that can prevent a car getting somewhat airborne when you have wheel over wheel contact like that. Its called the laws of physics, even Tony George can't break them. :tony:
Take a look at the last 10 years how many times the same type of accident ended with the car on its roll hoop. Theres is NOTHING that can prevent a car getting somewhat airborne when you have wheel over wheel contact like that. Its called the laws of physics, even Tony George can't break them. :tony:
I'm too lazy to round up all the crash footage again, you do the leg work. The leap I was referring to was your less-than scientific conclusion that the new car is better despite the "crash" defeating each of the things the new car was designed to prevent.
gerhard911
04-17-12, 11:45 AM
I agree with Chief. Based on stated design criteria, new car = FAIL. Only reason IMHO it didn't go into the typical full lift-off mode was lack of speed at the time of impact. If lack of speed was a design criteria, new car = rousing sucksess!
And if the contention is that "There's is NOTHING that can prevent a car getting somewhat airborne when you have wheel over wheel contact", then it was a silly design premise to begin with.
Rogue Leader
04-17-12, 11:58 AM
I'm too lazy to round up all the crash footage again, you do the leg work. The leap I was referring to was your less-than scientific conclusion that the new car is better despite the "crash" defeating each of the things the new car was designed to prevent.
Fine then I will concede that maybe its not better, but inconclusive. This type of accident will cause flight no matter what the car. Only the bumper being stronger would have stopped it. So you are wrong as well to conclude the car is the same or worse, because of the fact the car did get air, but not because of the fact the bumper didn't prevent anything. Nothing conclusive says that each of the things it was designed to prevent was caused here except the bumper part.
I agree with Chief. Based on stated design criteria, new car = FAIL. Only reason IMHO it didn't go into the typical full lift-off mode was lack of speed at the time of impact. If lack of speed was a design criteria, new car = rousing sucksess!
And if the contention is that "There's is NOTHING that can prevent a car getting somewhat airborne when you have wheel over wheel contact", then it was a silly design premise to begin with.
If you are referring to the design premise of the rear bumpers then yes I agree. If you are referring to wheel over wheel contact, its inherent to open wheel cars, as I said physics is a bitch. For reference see Mark Webber - 2010 European GP - a car that has a thousand times more downforce and millions of dollars more R&D into it, still flies.
I didn't review this like the Zapruder film, but I do think there is a spot where wheel to wheel contact flight ends (or starts to) and "aero" flight takes place.
If you watch around 2:47 to 2:50ish, the car seems to be mechanically launched. But as the car rotates and from 2:50ish on, the car seems to float until it stalls. There is even a little extra lift at 2:51/2:52.
When Rahal pits, you can see a tire mark on his rear fender - 'cause I guess that is what to call it?
Methanolandbrats
04-17-12, 12:35 PM
Why do you people constantly bicker about the new lump of **** and compare it to the old lump of ****. Who cares. Both lumps of **** belong in a crusher, except for a few that will saved by rich, fat guys so they can squirm into a firesuit and peddle around at vintage events.
Racing Truth
04-17-12, 12:39 PM
Some gomer over at TF put the overnight rating in perspective: If you took the total viewership of the LBGP and distributed them equally among all 50 states (not accurate, of course, but illustrative) that would work out to something around 7,000 viewers per state.
7,000 viewers in Nevada might be epic, but 7,000 viewers in California is epic fail.
Take a close look at who that "gomer" is.;)
SurfaceUnits
04-17-12, 01:46 PM
the fact it DIDN'T go over shows how slow they were going
nothing more than speed. nothing new on the car to make it any safer than the pre death wagon 12
SurfaceUnits
04-17-12, 01:47 PM
Still false. Nobody is running ballast in the nosebox. It was done once during a test as a science experiment, the point was proven, and new parts were manufactured.
so the balast is from the factory
Ed_Severson
04-17-12, 02:11 PM
so the balast is from the factory
Nope. Same nosebox as before. No ballast.
gerhard911
04-17-12, 02:25 PM
Still false. Nobody is running ballast in the nosebox. It was done once during a test as a science experiment, the point was proven, and new parts were manufactured.
OK, Mr. Eggspert, share with the class specifically which "new parts were manufactured" and how they differed (lighter, heavier, ???) from the original parts in order to redistribute weight to the rear.
Ed_Severson
04-17-12, 02:29 PM
New front wishbones that moved the front wheels 2 inches rearward, and new rear wishbone mounting blocks that moved the rear wheels 1 inch rearward. Gained about 2 percent front weight distribution.
Racing Truth
04-17-12, 02:43 PM
New front wishbones that moved the front wheels 2 inches rearward, and new rear wishbone mounting blocks that moved the rear wheels 1 inch rearward. Gained about 2 percent front weight distribution.
D@mn it, Severson! Stop bringing facts and knowledge into this discussion.;)
Uh, to the race itself, Will Power and Pagenaud are beasts. Pagenaud was brilliant at the end.
Hunter-Reay is a tool. Preaches "clean racing,".... before punting Sato.:shakehead Newgarden was maybe a foot away from leading early, but to no avail.:(
Oh, and eff you Helio!:flame: How many times do you need to see that the Hairpin is no place to overtake?
Racing Truth
04-17-12, 02:48 PM
BTW: Before I get called on it, LB final actually DROPPED from overnight to a .32. Still up 45% from last yr., but it might just be stat. noise.
gerhard911
04-17-12, 03:31 PM
New front wishbones that moved the front wheels 2 inches rearward, and new rear wishbone mounting blocks that moved the rear wheels 1 inch rearward. Gained about 2 percent front weight distribution.
Thank you for a (finally) non-antagonistic, factual response. A much better solution that apparently didn't get the press that the ballast "experiment" did.
Those that wish to see the IICS & Dallara regarded in a more positive, professional light would do well to make this kind of information more readily available.
Ed_Severson
04-17-12, 04:04 PM
Thank you for a (finally) non-antagonistic, factual response. A much better solution that apparently didn't get the press that the ballast "experiment" did.
Those that wish to see the IICS & Dallara regarded in a more positive, professional light would do well to make this kind of information more readily available.
It was written about extensively, but sure ... anything I can do to help.
D@mn it, Severson! Stop bringing facts and knowledge into this discussion.
It's a small contribution. I figured this out a long time ago -- what I know about this car after four months of engineering it pales in comparison to the wealth of knowledge possessed by the keyboard jockeys who post in certain corners of the internet. I'm just here to learn. :gomer:
Methanolandbrats
04-17-12, 04:08 PM
^^^ you built that thing? What bits?
cameraman
04-17-12, 04:11 PM
Which team are you working for?
BTW: Before I get called on it, LB final actually DROPPED from overnight to a .32. Still up 45% from last yr., but it might just be stat. noise.
0.28 2011
0.32 2012
45% huh? You are full of poop.
Only the bumper being stronger would have stopped it.
Really? The bumper was intact on Rahal's car. Marco's wing is intact after crash. There's is a suspicious black gouge mark on Marco's left front tire where it looks like it might have gotten wedged in between the bumper and the tire of Rahal's car.
So how does the bumper being stronger stop it?
Ed_Severson
04-17-12, 04:29 PM
^^^ you built that thing?
**** no!
Which team are you working for?
Come to the race track and I'll tell you. :)
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