Lotus and Jean Alesi

[Rogue Leader]

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120509/INDYCAR/120509842?utm_source=DailyDrive20120509&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=article7&utm_content=20120509-Lotus_to_support_Jean_Alesi,_Fan_Force_United_at_I ndianapolis_500&utm_campaign=awdailydrive

I'm sure theres others here who think this is a bad idea. The man hasn't raced an open wheel car in 11 years, and while extremely talented (had he went to Williams instead of Ferrari he likely would have become a world champion instead of only a 1 race winner, talk about career mistakes but at the time, who knew?), hes a bit old, and in that whole time has never raced on an oval.

Coupled with the lump that is Lotus and this is sounding like more of a publicity stunt for Lotus to try and get some credibility back. If they had just provided some of their credible current drivers like Tagliani and Bourdais decent engines instead of the crap they have had that may have worked out better in the first place.

[SteveH]

http://royhobbson.tumblr.com/post/22721154351/gaaaahhhh

[chop456]

^ :laugh:


The only reason I think it's a bad idea is because it ruins my previously positive image of him.

If any number of the leeg's talentless assbags can keep one of those ____heaps out of the wall, I'm certain he can do it better. And if he tries too hard and wads one up, well , that's one less anyone will have to look at.

[opinionated ow]

He's an employee of Lotus though; they probably feel they owe it to him.

[nissan gtp]

hopefully he'll get out of there unhurt (except his pride and reputation)

[Leadfoote]

I'd jump at a chance to race the five hundy (never gonna happen). I can see why Jean is givin it a crack:cool:

[SurfaceUnits]

I'd jump at a chance to race the five hundy (never gonna happen). I can see why Jean is givin it a crack:cool:

they'd let you if you had the cash

u used to have to be talented to get into the 500, now thanks to TOney Gorge, Milka Duno can do it

[Indy]

http://royhobbson.tumblr.com/post/22721154351/gaaaahhhh

Holy crap! Joe Tanto is running the 500! Sweet!

[Leadfoote]

they'd let you if you had the cash

u used to have to be talented to get into the 500, now thanks to TOney Gorge, Milka Duno can do it

good point!!!

[Kiwifan]

I'd jump at a chance to race the five hundy (never gonna happen).

Burt? Burt Munro, is that you? ;)

[Chief]

"I was looking at him today and thought he really looks good for 58," (Arie) Luyendyk said. "I didn't know he was only 47."

Indycar is SO bad, it just writes itself. :laugh:

French old doods age fast (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120510/SPORTS0107/205100334/Dragon-faces-engine-issues-rookie-testing-begins?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s)

[opinionated ow]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99457


Things are looking up for Lotus...leaves Simona <3 with the only lump

[Andrew Longman]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99457


Things are looking up for Lotus...leaves Simona <3 with the only lump

Too bad. She deserves better. I'd like to see what she could do with competitive equipment. ;)

[stroker]

I'm getting a very bad feeling about all of this. Nevermind the supply problems. It's like that anecdote about the sailing of the Titanic. Supposedly some passenger observed that when the Titanic initially took to sea and nearly collided with another vessel "That's a bad omen" and said he was going to get off. No confirmation of who that passenger was or if he ever did. I just hope they don't plant a car in the stands...

[dando]

I just hope they don't plant a car in the stands...

Precisely what I told my manager this AM. He was in the section where Conroy wrecked and the wheel ended under the stands. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[Elmo T]

Maybe I am in the minority, but I always liked the dude.

And this is why I think he needs to stay home with the wife and kids. :saywhat:

[Rogue Leader]

Maybe I am in the minority, but I always liked the dude.

And this is why I think he needs to stay home with the wife and kids. :saywhat:

I like him too, which is why I'd hate to see a great career capped off by what promises to likely be a DFL finish.

[Racing Truth]

I like him too, which is why I'd hate to see a great career capped off by what promises to likely be a DFL finish.

Here's the thing, though. He needs to get above 210 to pass ROP. We'll know more tomorrow, but based on today, that's an open question.

[cameraman]

Fastest lap was 186.387 mph. Indy Lights are faster than that.

[SurfaceUnits]

He completed less than half the laps that were formerly required to pass, but with a new clown in town, rules are for youthful CART enthusiasts.

Katherine Thighs didn't go ontrack so don't know what they will do about her.

[Chief]

Here's the thing, though.

Yeah, well here's the thing though....Lotus is a piece of garbage, down to 2 cars (allegedly and being sued to have less). More boost, who cares, Alesi has no chance AT ALL. FFU, sez it all.

Tony Kaanan sez WGAF if they have 33 anyway...I agree. Indy is about Qwality. Yeah, I know the haters won't like that but even in 1996 it was about QWailuty. TonY Kaanan sez so.:laugh:

[Methanolandbrats]

^^^ Kaannan said that? Holy ****, isn't that kinda like kicking tradition in the nuts? The faithful won't care for that comment :gomer:

[Leadfoote]

Burt? Burt Munro, is that you? ;)

HA!! G'day KF.

I've got photo's of me with Burt's bikes:)

[Racing Truth]

FWIW, Alesi topped out at near 209 today, passing 2 of 3 ROP phases. Not great, but certainly better.

[stroker]

^^^ Kaannan said that? Holy ****, isn't that kinda like kicking tradition in the nuts? The faithful won't care for that comment :gomer:

What the hell else is he going to say? They're hanging on by their friggin' fingernails. If the TV ratings continue the way they are, IZOD will probably tell them to go pound sand next year and they'll spend 2013 with the same aero crap they have this year. Net change from 2011 = two engines. Big Whoop.

[Methanolandbrats]

What the hell else is he going to say? They're hanging on by their friggin' fingernails. If the TV ratings continue the way they are, IZOD will probably tell them to go pound sand next year and they'll spend 2013 with the same aero crap they have this year. Net change from 2011 = two engines. Big Whoop.

He is a furrin blasphemer. A flesh and blood devil who does not know what indy means. :mad:

[RTKar]

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2009/03/small_willferrellcohen.JPG

[trauma1]

When was the last time an IRL PR stunt didn't turn out so well, oh crap forgot it was Vegas:gomer::gomer:

[Rogue Leader]

http://www.racer.com/lotus-drivers-worried-about-indy-pace/article/241515/

Alesi concerned his car is too slow to be safe.

[Andrew Longman]

When you do only 200mph, you don't have enough downforce,

Too slow to go fast. :rolleyes:

Seriously. How can they be 17 mph off the pace? That's just total suck.

[cameraman]

So the other two Lotus cars, Legge & Bourdais are just parked for lack of engines???

The beauty of Google


Jay Penske finally cut a deal to race in the Indianapolis 500.
To get the Chevrolet engines he wanted for his two cars, Penske agreed to end his contentious relationship with Lotus by dropping a $4.6 million lawsuit he filed against the engine manufacturer two weeks ago. In return, Lotus released Penske from his contract and IndyCar officials quickly approved the change so Sebastien Bourdais and Katherine Legge could take laps Thursday. "It was nice to see them push it out of the pit box and we all cheered when he was pulling out," Legge said after Bourdais shook down her car. "It was definitely a step in the right direction." Penske did not provide additional details about the agreement. Both engines came from Ed Carpenter's second entry, a car with no driver. Penske is putting the primary engine from Carpenter in one car and the backup in the other.

The full futility of it all explained (http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_20644241/jay-penskes-team-finds-engines-2-cars)

[Chief]

Apparenlty no, they just got their Chevys this AM. He'll be in the field...someone will bend over and cough 33 times, Im sure of it.

[Gnam]

I wonder who paid Penske jr. the $4.6 million? :gomer:

[stroker]

The engines from different manufacturers just DROP IN??? They've got modular engine mounts or something?

[Elmo T]

The engines from different manufacturers just DROP IN??? They've got modular engine mounts or something?

Maybe the engine badges are interchangeable? :gomer:

[Napoleon]

The engines from different manufacturers just DROP IN??? They've got modular engine mounts or something?

IIRC the engine manufacturer's needed to match a certain mounting pattern or something like that.

[cameraman]

The engines from different manufacturers just DROP IN??? They've got modular engine mounts or something?

Everything about the car is spec.

[Rogue Leader]

IIRC the engine manufacturer's needed to match a certain mounting pattern or something like that.

This plus I think they all use the same gearbox....

[Napoleon]

This plus I think they all use the same gearbox....

exactly

[Chief]

The Xtrac "buttplug" model 2, with full bumper. Same manu as the #1 model, "The Backbreaker".

[Rex Karz]

The engines from different manufacturers just DROP IN??? They've got modular engine mounts or something?

Custom valve covers, Baby!!!

[gerhard911]

For a hater site, there is an alarming level of knowledge aboot the deathwaggon12. And not from the usual RT & ES suspects, either :shakehead

[opinionated ow]

The Xtrac "buttplug" model 2, with full bumper. Same manu as the #1 model, "The Backbreaker".

I wouldn't blame XTRAC. They build gearboxes for just about everyone. You can only build to the specs you're provided...

[Chief]

I wouldn't blame XTRAC. They build gearboxes for just about everyone. You can only build to the specs you're provided...

No blame, just fact. Is there a supplier of chassis/gearbox different than the previous car? Can you say <cough cough> kickback?

One need not do too much research to stay on top of those morons at 16th and Jonestown. To think someone once said all they had to do was cut the grass, open the gates and count the money. Apparently they've screwed even THAT up. :thumbup:

[cameraman]

The Loti finally made it onto the track.


9. #78 Simona de Silvestro HVM-Lotus 214.498mph 41.9584s + 1.735 (6 laps)
10. #64 Jean Alesi Fan Force United-Lotus 209.156mph 43.0301s + 2.807s (8 laps)


Quite the gap there between the teammates...

[RTKar]

The Loti finally made it onto the track.


9. #78 Simona de Silvestro HVM-Lotus 214.498mph 41.9584s + 1.735 (6 laps)
10. #64 Jean Alesi Fan Force United-Lotus 209.156mph 43.0301s + 2.807s (8 laps)


Quite the gap there between the teammates...

Two different generation engines

[cameraman]

So every Lotus engine counts as a generation?

[Racing Truth]

The Loti finally made it onto the track.


9. #78 Simona de Silvestro HVM-Lotus 214.498mph 41.9584s + 1.735 (6 laps)
10. #64 Jean Alesi Fan Force United-Lotus 209.156mph 43.0301s + 2.807s (8 laps)


Quite the gap there between the teammates...

And that's about hoq they qualified, though Alesi was at 210. Clauson, with instructions to lift in a backup, still outqualified them. It's sad when 214, with added boost, is an accomplishment.

[RTKar]

So every Lotus engine counts as a generation?

Apparently, TV guys mentioned the team received one new updated engine.

[Racing Truth]

Apparently, TV guys mentioned the team received one new updated engine.

Came from Miller. Gives HVM 30 more hp supposedly. Too bad they still need 60-70 more, but maybe she won't get bf'ed.

[Rocketdoc]

When was the last time a Judd race engine ever won a race?

[EDwardo]

When was the last time a Judd race engine ever won a race?

The last one to win the Indy 500 was driven by Al Unser for Penske in 1987.

The last Dashley Judd to win the Indy 500 was in 2010!

[opinionated ow]

2011
LMS Drivers’ champions, Pescarolo Pescarolo-Judd
Winner LMS Michelin Green X Challenge, Pescarolo Pescarolo-Judd
Winner Estoril 6 Hour LMS race, Pescarolo Pescarolo-Judd
Winner Paul Ricard 6 Hour LMS race, Pescarolo Pescarolo-Judd

[Rogue Leader]

When was the last time a Judd race engine ever won a race?

As per above, and looking at history Judd has made some very strong sportscar engines. However the difference between them and Cosworth or Ilmor is that they have made QUITE a few stinkers, in a far higher proportion than the others. Most famously, their F1 engines were mediocre at best.

[cameraman]

The Judd engines seem to work best after they have been around for a couple of years and they have worked all the bugs out. Speed of development is not one of Judd's strong points. They have won quite a few races over the years in LMS, ALMS and Grand Am.

Patrick Dempsey is running a shiny new LMP2 Lola B12/87-Judd in the ALMS this year. It survived its first race at Laguna Seca which was more of a six hour test than a race for those guys.

[Racing Truth]

The Judd engines seem to work best after they have been around for a couple of years and they have worked all the bugs out. Speed of development is not one of Judd's strong points.

That might be and, if so, it really doesn't help that Lotus is hardly paying Judd for basic development. If he were, I think it would still be slower, but only by 3-5 mph, not 10-15.

[Rogue Leader]

That might be and, if so, it really doesn't help that Lotus is hardly paying Judd for basic development. If he were, I think it would still be slower, but only by 3-5 mph, not 10-15.

The problem is that considering Lotus' financial issues (that they deny) there is only so much time they are gonna throw money at this before they give up. And it won't be enough time for that engine to have its bugs worked out.

[Indy]

I guess 33 ain't just a number, eh, Tony? :tony:

[Racing Truth]

The problem is that considering Lotus' financial issues (that they deny) there is only so much time they are gonna throw money at this before they give up. And it won't be enough time for that engine to have its bugs worked out.

Agreed. I think it's likely they're gone after the yr., if not sooner. Likely just as well.:shakehead

[extramundane]

As per above, and looking at history Judd has made some very strong sportscar engines. However the difference between them and Cosworth or Ilmor is that they have made QUITE a few stinkers, in a far higher proportion than the others. Most famously, their F1 engines were mediocre at best.

Ilmor and Cosworth, at least over the last 20 years or so, haven't tended to embark on engine projects of this scale without significant backing from a REAL manufacturer (or at least a benefactor with serious pockets, i.e. Penske). Judd's results in sports & touring cars suggests to me that, with proper backing (not Lotus, MG or Yamaha), they'd be competitive with Ilmor.

[DagoFast]

The last one to win the Indy 500 was driven by Al Unser for Penske in 1987.

The last Dashley Judd to win the Indy 500 was in 2010!

I don't remember it that way? In dagoworld (an admittedly sometimes scary place) Al drove a year old car with a many years old Cosworth built by Karl Kainhoffer while the rest of the Penske team drove those new fangled Ilmor Chebbies that all blowed up in the race.

The only Judd engine from back in the CART era in my memory banks was the early, very doggy "Honda" badged version that failed to get Booby Rathole in the 500 field.

But I could be wrong. :D

[Rogue Leader]

Ilmor and Cosworth, at least over the last 20 years or so, haven't tended to embark on engine projects of this scale without significant backing from a REAL manufacturer (or at least a benefactor with serious pockets, i.e. Penske). Judd's results in sports & touring cars suggests to me that, with proper backing (not Lotus, MG or Yamaha), they'd be competitive with Ilmor.

You make a good point. Problem is its too late for this lump most likely.

[EDwardo]

I don't remember it that way? In dagoworld (an admittedly sometimes scary place) Al drove a year old car with a many years old Cosworth built by Karl Kainhoffer while the rest of the Penske team drove those new fangled Ilmor Chebbies that all blowed up in the race.

The only Judd engine from back in the CART era in my memory banks was the early, very doggy "Honda" badged version that failed to get Booby Rathole in the 500 field.

But I could be wrong. :D

That's what I get for using wikipedia as a source! I did a little more checking and found this about Judd. The engine they built in 1987 ran at Indy was a v8 turbo badged as a Brabham-Honda. This engine only won one race, with Rahal at the Pocono 500 in 1988.

I stand by the part with Dashley Judd last winning Indy in 2010.

[DagoFast]

Thanks for digging that up! I'd completely forgotten about the Judd scoring a win. Jesus, AOW races at Pocono were a loooong time ago.