Goodbye to the 8th Wonder of the World?

[dando]

http://www.ksat.com/news/Astrodome-fades-crumbles-as-Houston-decides-fate/-/478452/14065536/-/q7m90t/-/index.html

Decision due today on what to do with the Astrodome. :(

-Kevin

[Wheel-Nut]

It's time for it to go. Costing the county millions of dollars as it stands now.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2012/04/03/photos-the-astrodome-then-and-now/

[Gnam]

Blow it up to make room for an IRL street parade. ;)

[Andrew Longman]

It's time for it to go. Costing the county millions of dollars as it stands now.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2012/04/03/photos-the-astrodome-then-and-now/Can't make it up on flea markets and tractor pulls? Gotta use your imagination. ;)

[Ankf00]

place is falling apart. hilarious that we're still paying for the '86 or whatever renovation...

**** bud adams in the ass with an aids infested pinecone.

[EDwardo]

http://www.audiophileusa.com/covers400/94844.jpg

http://www.theshiznit.co.uk/media/May2011/BrewsterMcCloudImage.jpg

:)

[Wheel-Nut]

Can't make it up on flea markets and tractor pulls? Gotta use your imagination. ;)

No, but they can if it were a parking lot and charged $20 a spot.

[Andrew Longman]

place is falling apart. hilarious that we're still paying for the '86 or whatever renovation...

**** bud adams in the ass with an aids infested pinecone.Ask the folks in St Pete about that. They built the Doom Dome on spec for a baseball team, funded it with massive balloon bonds, waited IIRC 10 years for a team while using it as a flea market, then when they got a team they realized they had never built parking lots.

Some smart person had been quietly buying up surrounding properties and then held the city hostage to turn them over so they could build lots. AND by that time the place was wearing out and obsolete and more bonds were needed to fix the place up.

Who knows when they will finish paying for that thing that looks like a oil storage tank sinking into the bay.

Pretty sure the era of communities just handing over money to build these sports palaces is over.

[dando]

Pretty sure the era of communities just handing over money to build these sports palaces is over.

No more free rides ala Hamilton County oHIo, but still public funds being mixed in to build 'em (see Minneapolis, MN). Even when they are being built privately, public funds are being used to bail them out (see Nationwide Arena Columbus, OH). The county and city took over the arena here to help ease the pain of the CBJs, who had a bad lease agreement that was negotiated when the market bubble $$$ were flowing, and weren't getting jack **** from parking, concessions or naming rights despite running the arena for Nationwide who built it. :saywhat: So in steps the local officials to buy it and run it with tax $$$ to be generated by the new local casino being built on the west side, opening this fall. I'll believe that thing generates the $$$ they are projecting as soon as monkeys fly out of my ass. Even funnier (in a sadistic way) is the situation in St. Lou...the Rams need the Edward Jones dome to be upgraded to include the proper luxury suites, etc. to the tune of $700m. Conclusion there is that it's cheaper to just build a new dome. WTF? Others have concluded that it's simply cheaper to let the Rams go back to LaLa if and whenever they finally get their mult-ibillion $$$ stadium built. :shakehead

-Kevin

[Dvdb]

.

Not entirely true. Part of the original lease used to lure the Rams to StL has a clause that the ED must be in the 1st tier of NFL stadiums midway (?) thru the life of the lease. CVC, which operates the dome for the city and state, made a proposal ($225 millionish) for mostly cosmetic upgrades. The Rams came back with their proposal, estimated at $700 million, which includes ripping off several facades, taking over a city street, and a retractable roof.

Next step is arbitration, although I don't think it is "binding".

Kroenke has never mentioned specifically LA, but it's not a big leap to think he is using it to his advantage. I would have been more concerned it he had won the Dodgers bidding. But let's be honest, LA is no more closer to building a football specific stadium today than they were 5 years ago.

There is an old Chrysler plant about 15 miles west of STL which some people mention as a site for a new stadium. Once you get past some abatement issues, it makes a little sense in that Kroenke could control some parking revenues and revenue from additional dates. But he has one of the most lopsided leases in the NFL as it is.

It's all posturing for negotiating purposes at this stage.

[dando]

Not entirely true. Part of the original lease used to lure the Rams to StL has a clause that the ED must be in the 1st tier of NFL stadiums midway (?) thru the life of the lease. CVC, which operates the dome for the city and state, made a proposal ($225 millionish) for mostly cosmetic upgrades. The Rams came back with their proposal, estimated at $700 million, which includes ripping off several facades, taking over a city street, and a retractable roof.

Next step is arbitration, although I don't think it is "binding".

Kroenke has never mentioned specifically LA, but it's not a big leap to think he is using it to his advantage. I would have been more concerned it he had won the Dodgers bidding. But let's be honest, LA is no more closer to building a football specific stadium today than they were 5 years ago.

There is an old Chrysler plant about 15 miles west of STL which some people mention as a site for a new stadium. Once you get past some abatement issues, it makes a little sense in that Kroenke could control some parking revenues and revenue from additional dates. But he has one of the most lopsided leases in the NFL as it is.

It's all posturing for negotiating purposes at this stage.

I was just paraphrasing the talking head on E$PN Radio, who was likely paraphrasing the situation from some news piece his producer(s) found. In any case, what I described is not far from the actual situation. @ some point the NFL will land in LaLa (it's silly not to be in the #2 US media market), and the Vikes came very close with the NFL pressuring the Minnie legislature on the new stadium funding bill. And no, nothing is imminent, but the dance has begun.

-Kevin

[Dvdb]

I'm not so sure the NFL wants a team in LA in the near term. First, there is a reason why the Rams and the Raiders left, and second, as long as there is a threat of moving to LA, every NFL team has additional leverage in their own negotiations.

I'd be very surprised that in five years, we are saying LA Rams again.

[WickerBill]

It is obvious that domes are passé (the RCA dome was the only one, before its demise, that wasn't consistently listed as one of the worst stadiums in the league) -- Metrodome, EJ dome are the worst two stadiums in the NFL, the Trop and Skydome are hated in MLB -- but stadium revenue is only a piece of the profit for the owners. There needs to be a rule in place that protects these cities that are investing, because as crazy as it sounds now, the NFL will decline, and owners will become way more antsy to move if a better stadium in another city becomes available. It could turn into chaos if TV revenue shrinks. Something like the team cannot move one year for every $20 mil spent in public funds. I dunno.

[Andrew Longman]

It is obvious that domes are passé ...The new Giants Stadium (sorry, doubt I will ever call ir Met Life Stadium, just like I never stopped Byrne Arena Byrne Arena) was never considered to get a roof.The stadium already was budgeted at over $1billion. Word was a roof might double that and the Giants and Jets were already having trouble coming up with the money.

But more so, Mara shared pretty much everyone's opinion that weather (especially wind) played into too many Giants (and even Jets) wins. Don't mess with success.

Would you put a roof on Lambeau? Soldier Field?

I also think newer domes in AZ and Detroit aren't really creating any extra butts in seats or love for the team. Well maybe AZ. The heat there can make watching unbearable and even unhealthy.

[Tifosi24]

The Vikings drama is truly never ending, and the only positive out of it is that it looks like it will be over today once the city council signs off. On the topic of domes, the Vikings' initial idea on a stadium was for it to be open-air. They quickly realized that an open-air stadium in this market would have zero chance of getting public funding. The thing that gets me about the final cost, $975 million, is that it doesn't even include a retractable roof. My guess is that the owners will spring for it, but it seems crazy to me that a football stadium should cost more than $1 billion. One would think that the Vikings contribution of $500 million could make a really sweet stadium with no public funding, but why do that when you can extort extra money out of people.

[Al Czervik]

When looking at stadium costs you also need to look at what else is in the deal. Often times there are a lot of things not even related to the stadium that are reported in the cost. I remember that a not-insignificant amount of $$$ for Comiskey Park were included in the cost of the Soldier Field renovation.

[dando]

When looking at stadium costs you also need to look at what else is in the deal. Often times there are a lot of things not even related to the stadium that are reported in the cost. I remember that a not-insignificant amount of $$$ for Comiskey Park were included in the cost of the Soldier Field renovation.

Yup. Usually lots of renovation and environmental cleanup are included, not to mention the cost of tax abatements in the long term. I'm sure there were many highway and street projects were 'related' to Comiskey and Soldier Field. When they built the Arena District here, costs went up dramatically due to site cleanups that had to occur for the former state pen and factory sites.

-Kevin

[dando]

TOne would think that the Vikings contribution of $500 million could make a really sweet stadium with no public funding, but why do that when you can extort extra money out of people.

Not even close in today's $. In NYC Citi Field was tagged @ $1.2B and Yankee Stadium was $2B. The Bungles got PBS out of the Hamilton County taxpayers for just south of $500m in 2000 $$$ (which may not include the demolition of Riverfront and costs related to GABP construction). Of course they had to rip up the field four years later due to natural turf issues and replace it with a heated Field Turf field, which had to cost several million more. :saywhat: My guess is that construction today would cost upwards of $700m.

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

Yankee stadium was a peculiar deal. Given MLB rules profits the Yankees made would be subject to luxury tax which is given to other teams if Steinbrenner spent it on salaries. George really didn't want to give more to his competitors the more money he spent. Plus it would just drive up salaries for everyone.

So he had to find something else to spend it on. And he never believed in taking money out of the business.

Hence as much as it might be heresy to tear down the house that Ruth built, he saw he had no choice and given that the money had to be spent or lost it was basically free.

Only the Yankees in all of sport are probably in that position.

NYC did pay for to change some access roads . NJ paid for a rail line and some access roads for the new Giants stadium. And the state has mostly gotten out of the business of running the Meadowlands.