View Full Version : NFL Regular Season 2012
Good to see the CP we came to know and hate in Cincy. :rofl:
-Kevin
Skirts are next. :saywhat:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8720551/roger-goodell-floats-idea-end-kickoffs-report-says
-Kevin
Wow. Seems like unprofessional football.
Put a shock sensor on every helmet and limit players on peak and total G load on their head per game. Exceed the limit, a light goes on and you're out for the game. Players would rapidly learn to protect their heads and not use their head for tackling.
Insomniac
12-07-12, 04:40 PM
Skirts are next. :saywhat:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8720551/roger-goodell-floats-idea-end-kickoffs-report-says
-Kevin
I think that is the best "idea" I've at least heard if they were going to get rid of the kickoffs. I always thought what about an onsides kick? But the 30-yd line is crazy, have to be the 40-45, right? Does the punter have to keep it in bounds?
Wow. Cowboys defensive tackle arrested for DUI manslaughter after accident kills teammate.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/cowboys/2012/12/08/josh-brent-arrest/1755831/
I really believe that football should always start with a kickoff. Kickoff from the 20 and don't allow the receiving team to advance the ball. Something like that would be preferable to completely changing the structure of the game.
Wow. Cowboys defensive tackle arrested for DUI manslaughter after accident kills teammate.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/cowboys/2012/12/08/josh-brent-arrest/1755831/
You can't fix stupid. :shakehead
-Kevin
TravelGal
12-08-12, 10:09 PM
I really believe that football should always start with a kickoff. Kickoff from the 20 and don't allow the receiving team to advance the ball. Something like that would be preferable to completely changing the structure of the game.
zzzzzzzzzzz. No kickoff and return changes an exciting beginning into the start of a baseball game. Meaning, if you miss it, it doesn't matter because there's virtually no chance that anything exciting or dramatic will happen. I get that they want to reduce the impact velocities and it sounds as if they have done that. I'd be interested to know if it is (still?) the play on which most serious injuries happen. From the article, it didn't sound so.
zzzzzzzzzzz. No kickoff and return changes an exciting beginning into the start of a baseball game. Meaning, if you miss it, it doesn't matter because there's virtually no chance that anything exciting or dramatic will happen. I get that they want to reduce the impact velocities and it sounds as if they have done that. I'd be interested to know if it is (still?) the play on which most serious injuries happen. From the article, it didn't sound so.
I agree, ideally the solution would include a proper run back. But I'd rather have a kickoff without a runback than stuff like "every series starts from the 20", etc.
Insomniac
12-09-12, 11:27 AM
I really believe that football should always start with a kickoff. Kickoff from the 20 and don't allow the receiving team to advance the ball. Something like that would be preferable to completely changing the structure of the game.
How different is a punt from a kickoff? It's still a special teams play. Or is the idea that someone could run a play instead of punt to start the game what you mean? The idea of a 4th down play seems just as exciting as an onside kick (or a fake punt).
Andrew Longman
12-09-12, 12:32 PM
How different is a punt from a kickoff?In some ways a lot. Defenders downfield progress is impeded much more on punt. But punts are returned much less because the ball can be kicked much higher resulting in fair catches. And because there is no penalty for punting it out of bounds the sideline can be used as a 12th defender. Less of the field needs to be defended.
Kick off rules will do nothing to address the problems they are dealing with. Kick offs produce very few concussions... More knee injuries and stupid block in the back penalties than anything.
The issue is that it is a violent game and the brian injuries (the evidence is beginning to make very clear) are from CUMULATIVE contact. It's what happens when you have a Sunday afternoon car wreck every week for ten years... Or much more. Plus practice during the week. It takes a toll on every organ in the body. Maybe they shouldn't play so long, start so young, or have as much contact during the week. Of course I am not one to speak. I played organized and competitive football from age 11 to 40 and have had at least 15 concussions - none that we're treated by a doctor (that I remember :gomer:)
That seems to be much more sensible than changing the very construct and rules of the game. Special teams are an important part of the game ans strategy. And it gives a job for younger, less experienced players on the team and a chance to prove their worth.
Andrew Longman
12-09-12, 10:18 PM
Special teams are an important part of the game ans strategy. And it gives a job for younger, less experienced players on the team and a chance to prove their worth.see today's Giants/Saints.
In many ways the game turned on one team's ability to return kicks and another's inability to stop them.
Insomniac
12-10-12, 02:16 PM
In some ways a lot. Defenders downfield progress is impeded much more on punt. But punts are returned much less because the ball can be kicked much higher resulting in fair catches. And because there is no penalty for punting it out of bounds the sideline can be used as a 12th defender. Less of the field needs to be defended.
Kick off rules will do nothing to address the problems they are dealing with. Kick offs produce very few concussions... More knee injuries and stupid block in the back penalties than anything.
The issue is that it is a violent game and the brian injuries (the evidence is beginning to make very clear) are from CUMULATIVE contact. It's what happens when you have a Sunday afternoon car wreck every week for ten years... Or much more. Plus practice during the week. It takes a toll on every organ in the body. Maybe they shouldn't play so long, start so young, or have as much contact during the week. Of course I am not one to speak. I played organized and competitive football from age 11 to 40 and have had at least 15 concussions - none that we're treated by a doctor (that I remember :gomer:)
That seems to be much more sensible than changing the very construct and rules of the game. Special teams are an important part of the game ans strategy. And it gives a job for younger, less experienced players on the team and a chance to prove their worth.
I thought they had some pretty good data on the high rate of concussions and injury on the play. I wonder where the injuries/concussions are happening? They tried to address the wedge, but I don't think it did anything. I watch so many teams have two 2-man wedges that essentially merge into a 4-man wedge. Can they get rid of it all together and try and make it all about one-on-one blocking?
They can address some of the rules to get them inline with kickoffs (penalty for punting out of bounds for example).
You can still have young players on the punt teams. You have the long snappers, gunners, vice guys, returners, personal protectors, etc.
Insomniac
12-10-12, 02:17 PM
see today's Giants/Saints.
In many ways the game turned on one team's ability to return kicks and another's inability to stop them.
And couldn't that have been on one team's ability to return punts and another's inability to stop them (like OT in WAS-BAL)?
The talking heads on E$PN Radio today are all over the Chris Crocker PF penalty for his clean hit on Dez Bryant, which was a hard shoulder to chest hit. He was flagged for unnecessary roughness. Not by the SJ who was 10' from the play, but by the BJ who was much further from the play. I get the need for player safety, but @ this rate, the NFL is devolving into the Lingerie Football League. :saywhat: :irked:
-Kevin
Andrew Longman
12-10-12, 04:05 PM
The talking heads on E$PN Radio today are all over the Chris Crocker PF penalty for his clean hit on Dez Bryant, which was a hard shoulder to chest hit. He was flagged for unnecessary roughness. Not by the SJ who was 10' from the play, but by the BJ who was much further from the play. I get the need for player safety, but @ this rate, the NFL is devolving into the Lingerie Football League. :saywhat: :irked:
-Kevin
I am waiting on a the $25K fine he will likely pay for the hit hit pee wee coach would be proud of. The call can't even be defended by the "defenseless player rule". Bryant took steps and saw him coming. Don't want to get hit on that play? Don't enter that part of the field. Otherwise defense has no means to "defend".
Insomniac
12-10-12, 04:08 PM
The talking heads on E$PN Radio today are all over the Chris Crocker PF penalty for his clean hit on Dez Bryant, which was a hard shoulder to chest hit. He was flagged for unnecessary roughness. Not by the SJ who was 10' from the play, but by the BJ who was much further from the play. I get the need for player safety, but @ this rate, the NFL is devolving into the Lingerie Football League. :saywhat: :irked:
-Kevin
It's entirely too subjective. They have a similar problem where the flag simply depends on whether or not the ball was caught.
The NFL needs to stop with trying to enable scoring. Allow more contact between the players. Pass interference and clear holding should be the only penalties. Get rid of defenseless WR rules and enforce rules already on the books that ban hitting someone in the head (head hunting, not accidental) or using your own head as a weapon. And add an automatic booth review on that call to verify it wasn't a loud collision and actually an illegal hit. We need to go back to the days when you knew unnecessary roughness when you saw it.
Billick was doing color for the game, and his comment was 'I guess we're supposed to allow them to catch the ball now.' :saywhat:
Note: no sour grapes here...the Bungles dropped more passes than points they put on the board. I'm just incredulous that a good, clean, hard hit by Crocker was flagged, yet the Mundy hit on Heyward-Bey wasn't flagged.
TABfriVOT0w
-Kevin
The talking heads on E$PN Radio today are all over the Chris Crocker PF penalty for his clean hit on Dez Bryant, which was a hard shoulder to chest hit. He was flagged for unnecessary roughness. Not by the SJ who was 10' from the play, but by the BJ who was much further from the play. I get the need for player safety, but @ this rate, the NFL is devolving into the Lingerie Football League. :saywhat: :irked:
I think it was Reggie Nelson but, yeah, that was the most egregious of a number of recent clean hits in the secondary that have been penalized. They see a player go down violently and they throw the flag.
Safeties are frequently the victims of this nonsense because they're the ones who have to come up from deep in the secondary or across the field to make a play on a streaking receiver. There really is no better, safer way to do it. You can't go in standing up, that makes helmet to helmet more likely and probably injuries to other areas as well. You can't break down and try to "catch" the guy - you may as well just wave as he goes by.
They've created a monster where officials are just guessing. They're opening themselves up to questions about whether those guesses are really fair across the board. They need to tell the officials to stop guessing and leave the uncertain plays for the league to penalize after the fact.
I think it was Reggie Nelson but, yeah, that was the most egregious of a number of recent clean hits in the secondary that have been penalized. They see a player go down violently and they throw the flag.
Safeties are frequently the victims of this nonsense because they're the ones who have to come up from deep in the secondary or across the field to make a play on a streaking receiver. There really is no better, safer way to do it. You can't go in standing up, that makes helmet to helmet more likely and probably injuries to other areas as well. You can't break down and try to "catch" the guy - you may as well just wave as he goes by.
They've created a monster where officials are just guessing. They're opening themselves up to questions about whether those guesses are really fair across the board. They need to tell the officials to stop guessing and leave the uncertain plays for the league to penalize after the fact.
Might have been...not the first thing they got wrong calling the game. I came into the middle of a Golic rant this AM on the call on the way downtown, and then later into the middle of a rant by another of their gaggle of former players talking about it. My TV screen was oddly covered by a foreign substance after the call was made. :gomer:
-Kevin
Yes, it was Nelson. My bad for not checking the facts.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/10/bengals-furious-that-reggie-nelson-was-flagged-for-hit-on-dez-bryant/
psWMWRg9jgA
The NFL is becoming a version of the Pro Bowl. :saywhat: :shakehead
Almost as bad as the Seahags/Packers TD call. :saywhat: Can we bring back the replacement refs? :gomer: There should have been a conference b/w the refs since they had two different calls, and the ref closest to the play, with the best view, called it incomplete.
-Kevin
49ers suspend RB Brandon Jacobs for rest of the season.
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/12/10/brandon-jacobs-suspension-the-right-move-for-the-49ers/
They hire him away from the NY Giants, play him in one game, and then suspend him in Week 15. What a waste.
Andrew Longman
12-11-12, 10:32 AM
49ers suspend RB Brandon Jacobs for rest of the season.not surprised. He pulled this crap his entire time with the Giants. And showed inconsistent effort. I was not sad to see him go though I thought he had tremendous potential.
So did Goodell pull a Bud Selig?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8736662/paul-tagliabue-vacates-new-orleans-players-bounty-penalties
-Kevin
Insomniac
12-12-12, 03:01 PM
So did Goodell pull a Bud Selig?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8736662/paul-tagliabue-vacates-new-orleans-players-bounty-penalties
-Kevin
I think it has fit in with his past decisions on punishment. It gets enforced on the first person to be caught. The players were involved in it, but they're blaming the coaches. But they also lied when asked about the program. They used an all of the above defense and Tagliabue had to figure out the best way out of the mess.
extramundane
12-20-12, 08:46 AM
Oh, Jets. Never change (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/sanchise-jets-ready-shop-sanchez-qbs-source-article-1.1223973). :rofl:
The News has learned that Michael Vick, who is expected to be released by the Eagles shortly after the season, would be amenable to coming to the Jets if Sanchez is out of the equation.
"Bring it on," one Jets source said about signing Vick if he becomes available. "He was hit too many times (behind a subpar offensive line) the last two years."
Who Dey!
Went blow for blow with the big bully on our block and knocked them out. The back to back playoff monkey is off their back. The next big monkey is a playoff win. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the Giants are going to help out so that would likely have to come at New England. No small task.
Who Dey!
Went blow for blow with the big bully on our block and knocked them out. The back to back playoff monkey is off their back. The next big monkey is a playoff win. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the Giants are going to help out so that would likely have to come at New England. No small task.
No more We Dey! :D :thumbup:
Now if AJ could grow hands. :saywhat:
-Kevin
Insomniac
12-24-12, 02:09 AM
Who Dey!
Went blow for blow with the big bully on our block and knocked them out. The back to back playoff monkey is off their back. The next big monkey is a playoff win. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the Giants are going to help out so that would likely have to come at New England. No small task.
I'm still hoping for a bye. :) ChuckStrong or KC Pride. (or both for home field.)
*Assumes NE can actually beat Miami.
http://s7.postimage.org/bsy4v9o3v/2013_AFC.png
I'm glad the 49ers got the first round bye, but I'm not sure they can beat any of the other NFC teams. Anyone with a decent defense can force the 49er offense into repeated 3-&-outs, and the dinged up 49er Defense can't do it all on their own. Not to mention their kicker Akers has a case of the shanks. :shakehead
Vikings - Packers rematch should be good. :thumbup:
Insomniac
12-31-12, 03:16 PM
The usual bloody Monday for coaches and GMs.
Gone:
BUF - Gailey
NYJ - Tannebaum
CLE - Shurmur and Heckert
JAX - Smith
KC - Crennel
SD - Turner and Smith
PHI - Reid
CHI - Smith
ARI - Whisenhunt and Graves
Bad day to be a Smith. Probably not over. Supposedly Pioli (KC) and Nix (BUF) are not safe yet.
Andrew Longman
12-31-12, 03:17 PM
Today is a particularly "productive" black monday. Not a lot of surprise firings just a surprising number of them.
I am surprised that Rex Ryan kept his job... Except they still owe him $6 million.
I am betting Norv Turner winds up in either Carolina or with the Jets to try to salvage their number 1 QB picks.
I don't think Reid winds up anywhere. He needs time off.
It will be interesting to see what new faces enter the head coaching ranks. I can't think of any obvious hot coordinators people are itching to pluck. Same for college coaches. Chip Kelly was the object of affection for Loury in Philly a few months back. Somehow though I don't think his approach would translate to the pro game.
Insomniac
12-31-12, 03:30 PM
Today is a particularly "productive" black monday. Not a lot of surprise firings just a surprising number of them.
I am surprised that Rex Ryan kept his job... Except they still owe him $6 million.
I am betting Norv Turner winds up in either Carolina or with the Jets to try to salvage their number 1 QB picks.
I don't think Reid winds up anywhere. He needs time off.
It will be interesting to see what new faces enter the head coaching ranks. I can't think of any obvious hot coordinators people are itching to pluck. Same for college coaches. Chip Kelly was the object of affection for Loury in Philly a few months back. Somehow though I don't think his approach would translate to the pro game.
On PFT they said the Jets canceled Rex's press conference for today. Maybe he isn't safe?
I wonder about Kelly's offense. NE did some of it in the beginning of the season for what seemed like good success and then it just vanished. I heard some people talking about how worn down the offense is now. (It could also be because they haven't really had a healthy Gronk and Hernandez since Week 1.) The workload may simply be too much for this long a season with only 1 bye week.
Napoleon
12-31-12, 03:34 PM
Bad day to be a Smith.
Anyone see 456chop around today?
Andrew Longman
12-31-12, 03:45 PM
Supposedly Pioli (KC) and Nix (BUF) are not safe yet.I heard Nix was gone. Ron Rivera in Carolina too.
extramundane
12-31-12, 03:50 PM
Today is a particularly "productive" black monday. Not a lot of surprise firings just a surprising number of them.
I am surprised that Rex Ryan kept his job... Except they still owe him $6 million.
I am betting Norv Turner winds up in either Carolina or with the Jets to try to salvage their number 1 QB picks.
A now-apparently-deleted tweet from a NYJ beat writer said they were reportedly in talks to pick up Norv and Laserface for Sanchez and/or Tebow. :rofl:
Gruden's apparently throwing his hat in for one or more vacancies. I'll actually kinda miss his bath salts-fueled idiocy on MNF.
Andrew Longman
12-31-12, 03:55 PM
On PFT they said the Jets canceled Rex's press conference for today. Maybe he isn't safe?.Maybe. Tannenbaum had to go. He made too many bone head moves. As for Rex it may be a matter who they get to be GM and what control he demands/is allowed.
The bigger issue is that any job with the Jets is not going to be far from the bottom of anyone's list of dream jobs. The have salary cap problems, a QB problem, at likely lame duck coach with a habit of finding his foot in his mouth, and an owner who has yet to show he really knows anything about running a football team. Finally, the NYC media market and long suffering jet fans smell and attack weakness at the slightest whiff.
TravelGal
12-31-12, 03:56 PM
The usual bloody Monday for coaches and GMs.
Gone:
SD - Turner and Smith
The Sixth Day of Christmas and the best gift of all.
At this particular moment, the lead comment on Chargers.com sums it up for me: "It's about time. I feel a little sorry for Turner but not A.J. That arrogant ass needed to go. He ripped this team apart."
TKGAngel
12-31-12, 04:25 PM
I heard Nix was gone. Ron Rivera in Carolina too.
As of now, Nix still has a job. He allegedly has a meeting with Ralph Wilson tomorrow.
Insomniac
12-31-12, 05:22 PM
I heard Nix was gone. Ron Rivera in Carolina too.
Nothing official yet, but they seem to be bubble guys and haven't been declared safe.
Insomniac
12-31-12, 05:26 PM
A now-apparently-deleted tweet from a NYJ beat writer said they were reportedly in talks to pick up Norv and Laserface for Sanchez and/or Tebow. :rofl:
Gruden's apparently throwing his hat in for one or more vacancies. I'll actually kinda miss his bath salts-fueled idiocy on MNF.
That is one bad beat writer. They don't need to trade for Norv since he was fired and no trades until the new league year which isn't until March 12th. No one is trading for Sanchez unless he fires his agent and passes on $8M guaranteed. Speculation is Tebow does get traded to Jacksonville.
Insomniac
12-31-12, 05:39 PM
Maybe. Tannenbaum had to go. He made too many bone head moves. As for Rex it may be a matter who they get to be GM and what control he demands/is allowed.
The bigger issue is that any job with the Jets is not going to be far from the bottom of anyone's list of dream jobs. The have salary cap problems, a QB problem, at likely lame duck coach with a habit of finding his foot in his mouth, and an owner who has yet to show he really knows anything about running a football team. Finally, the NYC media market and long suffering jet fans smell and attack weakness at the slightest whiff.
Most of the problems can be cleared out following 2013 though. You can turnaround a team pretty fast in the NFL. (Of course as a Pats fan, I enjoy this and hope they don't.)
stroker
12-31-12, 05:45 PM
how they could have NOT fired Pioli is beyond me.
Andrew Longman
12-31-12, 05:57 PM
Speculation is Tebow does get traded to Jacksonville.He would sell tickets there and they need that. And the evidence is the best thing Tebow can do for a franchise is the generate press and ticket sales.
I don't see that kind of move though until they get their front office sorted out though.
He has to go somewhere though. He never made sense with the Jets and he makes less sense now.
Andrew Longman
12-31-12, 06:03 PM
Most of the problems can be cleared out following 2013 though.Which is probably a reason to keep Ryan one more year. But also reason the Jets will not have much luck attracting the best coaching and free agent talent. I suspect Sporano is out there too. The offense did nothing, the QB is a mess and iirc he is a Tannenbaum pick.
Insomniac
12-31-12, 07:31 PM
how they could have NOT fired Pioli is beyond me.
Has the personnel side been that bad?
Insomniac
12-31-12, 07:37 PM
He would sell tickets there and they need that. And the evidence is the best thing Tebow can do for a franchise is the generate press and ticket sales.
I don't see that kind of move though until they get their front office sorted out though.
He has to go somewhere though. He never made sense with the Jets and he makes less sense now.
If Tebow wants to be a QB, he has to go somewhere that will let him be a QB. Not a wildcat QB unless that will be the offense. Then all the QBs on the team should be learning that offense. JAX will have to go in a different direction (they may not mind given how Gabbert has performed). If I'm Jacksonville, I do it. The plan being, there is no QB at pick #2. Let's build an offense for 2014 and give Tebow the reigns. If he crashes and burns we have a high pick in 2014, and if not, we have a QB for now.
Insomniac
12-31-12, 07:40 PM
Which is probably a reason to keep Ryan one more year. But also reason the Jets will not have much luck attracting the best coaching and free agent talent. I suspect Sporano is out there too. The offense did nothing, the QB is a mess and iirc he is a Tannenbaum pick.
There are only 32 jobs. Most people don't have the luxury of saying no to an interview, let alone the job offer. $$$ talks in free agency and it's rare that it isn't (player wants to stay with the same team is the most often exception). Since 2006, the cap has never prevented a team from getting/keeping who they want.
Andrew Longman
12-31-12, 08:40 PM
If I were advising Tebow I would tell him that if he wants to stay in the league he needs to accept the fact that he had his chance to be an NFL QB and it didn't work out. I have to assume the Jets staff did see enough to give him a shot even with Sanchez clearly not up to the job.
Given his athleticism and size I would advise him to try to develop himself as an H back or TE. He then could be worked in at the right time into the wildcat. If that need is seen on any team, maybe JAX, then maybe there is a fit.
That is about the only way I see him taking up a roster spot.
And yes there or only 32 jobs but you also can afford to fail/be fired so many times. Plenty of assistants and coordinators turn down jobs if they think staying put and building their resume until a winning situation comes along is smarter. It might only be a year. And they might be thinking they can win a super bowl in their current job in which case they likely can have their pick of jobs.
NFL.com speculates Jay Gruden to Cleveland. I'd love to see Gruden and Zimmer back for the Bengals next season but if we have to lose one then they can more easily replace Gruden than Zimmer.
WickerBill
12-31-12, 10:21 PM
Go get Norv for Dalton before the Colts get him (if Arians is taken) for Luck. He is a turd head coach but a miracle worker for young QBs.
stroker
01-01-13, 12:30 AM
Has the personnel side been that bad?
The entire organization needs to be overhauled. I'm not even a Chiefs fan and it's obvious to me.
Insomniac
01-01-13, 11:20 AM
The entire organization needs to be overhauled. I'm not even a Chiefs fan and it's obvious to me.
A lot of these guys are getting fired because they don't have a QB. Pioli took his shot with Cassel and failed. On the flip side, Rex got to 2 AFC championships with the Sanchize.
Insomniac
01-01-13, 11:26 AM
If I were advising Tebow I would tell him that if he wants to stay in the league he needs to accept the fact that he had his chance to be an NFL QB and it didn't work out. I have to assume the Jets staff did see enough to give him a shot even with Sanchez clearly not up to the job.
Given his athleticism and size I would advise him to try to develop himself as an H back or TE. He then could be worked in at the right time into the wildcat. If that need is seen on any team, maybe JAX, then maybe there is a fit.
That is about the only way I see him taking up a roster spot.
And yes there or only 32 jobs but you also can afford to fail/be fired so many times. Plenty of assistants and coordinators turn down jobs if they think staying put and building their resume until a winning situation comes along is smarter. It might only be a year. And they might be thinking they can win a super bowl in their current job in which case they likely can have their pick of jobs.
He didn't exactly fail in Denver. Looking around the league he did better than quite a few did this year. The Jets never gave him a chance, and oddly they had the coach of the team that unleashed the wildcat to begin with. The big problem is they had two very different QBs which makes no sense unless you're also going to have two offenses.
All the jobs will be filled easily by willing participants. :)
TravelGal
01-01-13, 03:08 PM
He didn't exactly fail in Denver. Looking around the league he did better than quite a few did this year. The Jets never gave him a chance, and oddly they had the coach of the team that unleashed the wildcat to begin with.
Why he did so well in Denver is open to debate but he was never destined to stay because Elway hated him. One look at Elway's face any time Tebow was within 3 city blocks of him was worth 1,000 words.
Andrew Longman
01-01-13, 03:51 PM
He didn't exactly fail in Denver.Sorry I gotta disagree. His wins pretty consistently required divine intervention. He is simply a far too erratic passer. And despite a lot of work his mechanics are still too much of a mess to fix that. I expect, despite my dislike for Ryan and the fact that Woody hoisted Tebow on him, that Tebow was given plenty enough snaps in camp and practice during the season to convince the coaches that Tebow wasn't good enough to supplant either Sanchez or McElroy.
Insomniac
01-01-13, 07:13 PM
Why he did so well in Denver is open to debate but he was never destined to stay because Elway hated him. One look at Elway's face any time Tebow was within 3 city blocks of him was worth 1,000 words.
Sorry I gotta disagree. His wins pretty consistently required divine intervention. He is simply a far too erratic passer. And despite a lot of work his mechanics are still too much of a mess to fix that. I expect, despite my dislike for Ryan and the fact that Woody hoisted Tebow on him, that Tebow was given plenty enough snaps in camp and practice during the season to convince the coaches that Tebow wasn't good enough to supplant either Sanchez or McElroy.
Personally, I don't think he'll work out as a QB without a strong defense and an offensive supporting cast. And this speaks to your point on passing mechanics. I'd add accuracy/completion % as well. I'm not on his bandwagon by any means. He went 1-2 in 2010 and 8-5 in 2011. And that 8-5 is now on a team where Peyton Manning is getting MVP talk (maybe he's favored over A.D.)? <rant>So either Tebow didn't do so bad or Manning isn't all that better than Tebow if Manning is the MVP.</rant> All I'm saying is, with all the bad QB play year after year, maybe he can get a team to the playoffs or keep them competitive until you find a better/real QB.
Andrew Longman
01-01-13, 07:47 PM
Reid to Cards? http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/reports-andy-reid-could-arizona-cardinals-head-coach-224644721--nfl.html
Not sure I saw that coming, but it would definitely be Bidwellesque.
I don't see Andy moving on to Miller Lite commercials, but I would take some time off and would stay away from the curse of Bidwell.
And Insomniac I think you undervalue how good John Fox is at leading a team.
Reid to Cards?
Not so fast, my friend.
Howard Eskin @howardeskin
Andy Reid to Arizona as next HC I'm told could have hangup if he insists Former #Browns GM tom Heckert has to come with @profootballtalk
-Kevin
Andrew Longman
01-01-13, 09:13 PM
Not so fast, my friend.my link said it wasn't final but could by week's end. There is also the matter of agreeing on the money. But take anything Eskin with grain of salt. His reputation in Philly isn't exactly stellar.
Insomniac
01-01-13, 11:53 PM
Reid to Cards? http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/reports-andy-reid-could-arizona-cardinals-head-coach-224644721--nfl.html
Not sure I saw that coming, but it would definitely be Bidwellesque.
I don't see Andy moving on to Miller Lite commercials, but I would take some time off and would stay away from the curse of Bidwell.
And Insomniac I think you undervalue how good John Fox is at leading a team.
I think the most intriguing part if it happens is the Kolb-Reid reunion.
I don't think I am at all. I was saying the team was good with Tebow while also saying he wasn't a very good QB. Fox played to his strengths instead of trying a square peg in a round hole.
WickerBill
01-02-13, 06:58 AM
I was saying the team was good with Tebow
Respectfully disagree. The defense was very good, and the AFC West was particularly bad, allowing for some crap wins. Some of Tim's miracles included:
- Last-minute win against a horrible Dolphins team by scoring a grand total of 18 points
- Last-minute win against the Jets (scored 17, including 14 in 4th quarter while Jets played prevent)
- Win against SD, scored 16
- Win against Chicago (who also went the prevent route, allowing Tim to hit some underneath throws), scored 13
- Lost to Kansas City with the division title on the line -- SEVEN TO THREE
I suppose that last one wasn't a miracle. They also had blowout losses to New England (no shame), Detroit (maybe a little shame), and Buffalo (oh come on Denver).
The difference between Tebow's Broncos and Manning's Broncos is exactly what you see. Five more wins. It is never terribly hard to have 6-8 wins... 13 is a different story.
chop456
01-02-13, 08:25 AM
- Win against Chicago (who also went the prevent route, allowing Tim to hit some underneath throws), scored 13
And IIRC (I've tried to block it out), this was won, or made possible by some crazy, deflected pass with the receiver catching it while laying on his back.
The only way he starts anywhere is under some owner that's a lunatic fanboi.
Insomniac
01-02-13, 01:29 PM
Respectfully disagree. The defense was very good, and the AFC West was particularly bad, allowing for some crap wins. Some of Tim's miracles included:
- Last-minute win against a horrible Dolphins team by scoring a grand total of 18 points
- Last-minute win against the Jets (scored 17, including 14 in 4th quarter while Jets played prevent)
- Win against SD, scored 16
- Win against Chicago (who also went the prevent route, allowing Tim to hit some underneath throws), scored 13
- Lost to Kansas City with the division title on the line -- SEVEN TO THREE
I suppose that last one wasn't a miracle. They also had blowout losses to New England (no shame), Detroit (maybe a little shame), and Buffalo (oh come on Denver).
The difference between Tebow's Broncos and Manning's Broncos is exactly what you see. Five more wins. It is never terribly hard to have 6-8 wins... 13 is a different story.
I said the team. They allowed the score to be low enough he could get those miracle wins. I know every offensive play pretty much runs through the QB, but I am certainly not saying he won those games by himself. People love to toss around game manager, he didn't totally suck. The 2000 Ravens also won a SB with regular season gems with very little scoring. It's possible, but unlikely. In a ranking of QBs, he's near the bottom, but he may at least be better than 6-10 of the QBs who have shown they suck. People assume Tebow will be just like them, but he hasn't shown it on the field yet. Someone could give him a shot. I'm not saying replace Brady (or Locker) with Tebow. Replace Sanchez, Gabbert/Henne or Cassel with him. He doesn't seem any worse than Ponder, Weeden, Tannehill or Vick/Foles were.
This is a bit crazy I'm defending this guy. I think he will fail, but I haven't seen him fail yet. He will have to start at the bottom and prove he can do it. I just don't think it's over and I'd have no fear of him in my division at the same time.
Ray Lewis to retire (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8803174/ray-lewis-baltimore-ravens-says-retiring-season).
Now if he could just take Ed Reed with him. ;)
-Kevin
Hear, hear. Facing two all time greats on the same defense twice a year has been a bitch.
Andrew Longman
01-02-13, 03:03 PM
Replace Sanchez, Gabbert/Henne or Cassel with him. He doesn't seem any worse than Ponder, Weeden, Tannehill or Vick/Foles were.Yes he is worse. As Crash Davis warned a batter about Nuke LaLoosh, "Don't dig in. When he winds up I have no idea where the ball is headed." Tebow routinely makes passes that don't wind up within 10 yards of the target. And it is because he is completely undisciplined about his mechanics.
The 2000 Ravens had about the best defense of all time. There was hardly a reason tout the offense out there at all but a defense like that only comes along every 20 years or so. Generally you need a QB who at worst won't cost you the game (see Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Starr, etc. ) and at best will pull your bacon out of the fire when needed (see Manning bros., Elway, Unitas, etc.) A coach will value predictability and consistency over all else in a QB. Putting together a game plan is hard enough and heart attack producing enough without wondering what the QB will do on every snap.
Clowns talking to Chip Kelly?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8803627/cleveland-browns-arizona-interview-chip-kelly-oregon-ducks
-Kevin
Yes he is worse. As Crash Davis warned a batter about Nuke LaLoosh, "Don't dig in. When he winds up I have no idea where the ball is headed." Tebow routinely makes passes that don't wind up within 10 yards of the target. And it is because he is completely undisciplined about his mechanics.
The 2000 Ravens had about the best defense of all time. There was hardly a reason tout the offense out there at all but a defense like that only comes along every 20 years or so. Generally you need a QB who at worst won't cost you the game (see Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Starr, etc. ) and at best will pull your bacon out of the fire when needed (see Manning bros., Elway, Unitas, etc.) A coach will value predictability and consistency over all else in a QB. Putting together a game plan is hard enough and heart attack producing enough without wondering what the QB will do on every snap.
Now, now...the best ever? I recall a few teams from the 70s like the Steel Curtain, Purple People Eaters, and the '78 Raiderz with Jack Tatum & co. Not to forget the '85 Bears.
-Kevin
Andrew Longman
01-02-13, 03:56 PM
Now, now...the best ever? I recall a few teams from the 70s like the Steel Curtain, Purple People Eaters, and the '78 Raiderz with Jack Tatum & co. Not to forget the '85 Bears.
-KevinI said "about the best..." even though the 2000 Ravens allowed the fewest points in a 16 game season.
And you left off the 77 Falcons from your list. They might have been better than them all.
Napoleon
01-02-13, 03:57 PM
Clowns talking to Chip Kelly?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8803627/cleveland-browns-arizona-interview-chip-kelly-oregon-ducks
-Kevin
From local TV it actually sounds like he maybe their #1 choice.
And you left off the 77 Falcons from your list. They might have been better than them all.
I don't recall seeing them play. Before my time, old man. :p
-Kevin
From local TV it actually sounds like he maybe their #1 choice.
Lots of discussion on the local sports radio here that Saban might be in the mix. Keep in mind that he was an assistant under Bellyache in the mis-90s.
-Kevin
Clowns talking to Chip Kelly?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8803627/cleveland-browns-arizona-interview-chip-kelly-oregon-ducks
-Kevin
That would be awesome. First Pete Carroll is forced out of the Pac-12 and now Chip Kelly might leave? :D
Napoleon
01-02-13, 05:00 PM
Lots of discussion on the local sports radio here that Saban might be in the mix. Keep in mind that he was an assistant under Bellyache in the mis-90s.
-Kevin
Not to mention Kent and OSU. Plus, and I have to mention this, he is Croatian (the greatest ethnic group ever) just like Bellyache (whose family by the way is from the Y-town area).
WickerBill
01-02-13, 05:21 PM
If Satan went to Cleveland, it would make me happy for two reasons: Alabama wouldn't be as good, and Nicky would stink.
Andrew Longman
01-02-13, 10:18 PM
After what Saben did in and to the Dolphins (combined with perpetual disloyalty dysfunction) any pro team stupid to even talk to him deserve whatever misery they get.
Frankly the only reason for him to talk to another team is so he can extort more money out of Bama. So I guess it is all ok.
Insomniac
01-03-13, 10:10 AM
If Satan went to Cleveland, it would make me happy for two reasons: Alabama wouldn't be as good, and Nicky would stink.
I doubt Saban goes anywhere without a QB.
Insomniac
01-03-13, 10:13 AM
Yes he is worse. As Crash Davis warned a batter about Nuke LaLoosh, "Don't dig in. When he winds up I have no idea where the ball is headed." Tebow routinely makes passes that don't wind up within 10 yards of the target. And it is because he is completely undisciplined about his mechanics.
The 2000 Ravens had about the best defense of all time. There was hardly a reason tout the offense out there at all but a defense like that only comes along every 20 years or so. Generally you need a QB who at worst won't cost you the game (see Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Starr, etc. ) and at best will pull your bacon out of the fire when needed (see Manning bros., Elway, Unitas, etc.) A coach will value predictability and consistency over all else in a QB. Putting together a game plan is hard enough and heart attack producing enough without wondering what the QB will do on every snap.
31 teams don't win a Super Bowl.
I think I'm done talking about Tebow. I think a couple teams have nothing to lose giving him a shot as he hasn't been a failure. You've declared him a failure. We just won't agree and we aren't that far apart on how we see him.
Ozarkian
01-04-13, 11:28 AM
The entire organization needs to be overhauled. I'm not even a Chiefs fan and it's obvious to me.
Finally ...
http://www.kmbc.com/news/kansas-city/Chiefs-Scott-Pioli-part-ways/-/11664182/18010884/-/gf35c0/-/index.html
Insomniac
01-04-13, 12:06 PM
Finally ...
http://www.kmbc.com/news/kansas-city/Chiefs-Scott-Pioli-part-ways/-/11664182/18010884/-/gf35c0/-/index.html
Classy exit:
“I would like to thank Norma, Clark and the Hunt Family for the opportunity that they gave me four years ago. I’d also like to thank the players, coaches, scouts and countless other employees, throughout the organization and at Arrowhead Stadium that have worked so hard during my time here. I would also like to genuinely thank Chiefs fans.
“The bottom line is that I did not accomplish all of what I set out to do. To the Hunt family – to the great fans of the Kansas City Chiefs – to the players, all employees and alumni, I truly apologize for not getting the job done.”
Don Quixote
01-04-13, 12:15 PM
Classy exit:I love Mario. He needs to settle into a good d coordinator job where he would excel for many years, ala Wade Phillips.
Lewis to return against Colts.
-Kevin
Racing Truth
01-04-13, 08:08 PM
All but official: Chip Kelly to my Browns.
Will be fun/intriguing to watch.
Andrew Longman
01-04-13, 08:13 PM
Reid to Chiefs. Sorry about that. I thought they were looking for an overhaul and top to bottom overhaul. Reid may be new blood in KC but he isn't new blood. I think he has been tired for a lot of years.
All but official: Chip Kelly to my Browns.
Will be fun/intriguing to watch.
Is Nike going with him? Imagine the uniforms. :laugh:
Racing Truth
01-04-13, 08:25 PM
Is Nike going with him? Imagine the uniforms. :laugh:
Honestly, kinda hope so. Ours are so old, dull and tired. A bit of chrome would be nice.
Careful what you ask for, you might just get it. :D :laugh: :p
-Kevin
All but official: Chip Kelly to my Browns.
Will be fun/intriguing to watch.
All but what? He's met with the Bills yesterday and Iggles today. I'm drafting a petition to send Marvin to Cleveland. We'll take a box of used jock straps in return. :gomer: Heck, I'll even throw in Jay Gruden as balast for the SS Marvin Lewis. :saywhat:
-Kevin
Insomniac
01-06-13, 12:51 PM
All but what? He's met with the Bills yesterday and Iggles today. I'm drafting a petition to send Marvin to Cleveland. We'll take a box of used jock straps in return. :gomer: Heck, I'll even throw in Jay Gruden as balast for the SS Marvin Lewis. :saywhat:
-Kevin
At least by halftime they realized A.J. Green was on the team. :D
All but official: Chip Kelly to my Browns.
Will be fun/intriguing to watch.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8818276/cleveland-browns-reboot-search-chip-kelly-oregon-ducks-sources
The Cleveland Browns have decided to reboot their coach search after leaving Arizona late Sunday morning without landing Oregon's Chip Kelly, according to league sources.
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam III will renew the search at "square one" once his executive contingent, including CEO Joe Banner is stationed back in Cleveland after interviewing eight candidates in Arizona.
Guess again.
-Kevin
Racing Truth
01-06-13, 03:21 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8818276/cleveland-browns-reboot-search-chip-kelly-oregon-ducks-sources
Guess again.
-Kevin
Ugh, I know:o:o But nat'l & local sources said same thing.
Now, this org. looks utterly incompetent.:shakehead
WickerBill
01-06-13, 03:37 PM
Better off without Chip.
Racing Truth
01-06-13, 03:44 PM
Better off without Chip.
Maybe, but when you put 90-100% of your eggs in that bucket, and DON'T land him, you look awful.
Further, Marrone, their 2nd choice, now gone too.
WickerBill
01-06-13, 04:48 PM
Two college guys. Can't say I understand that at all.
Insomniac
01-06-13, 04:51 PM
Good news Orgeon fans, according to ESPN:
Sources: Browns won't fire Kelly
http://i50.tinypic.com/ims2ev.jpg
^^^ :rofl:
Oopsie.
-Kevin
Two college guys. Can't say I understand that at all.
Trying desperately to catch lightning in a bottle. :shakehead
-Kevin
cameraman
01-06-13, 07:46 PM
I don't watch all the much football but it seems to me that this game on Fox has a whole hell of a lot more commercials than the CBS games yesterday did. I haven't put a clock on it but this is just ridiculous.:saywhat:
I don't watch all the much football but it seems to me that this game on Fox has a whole hell of a lot more commercials than the CBS games yesterday did. I haven't put a clock on it but this is just ridiculous.:saywhat:
That was NBC yesterday, yo. :gomer: They don't have anything to promote. Fox has been like this forever...much like E$PN being pimps for anything Di$ney /ABC/E$PN is promoting. Cripes, if you watch the Di$ney Xmas parade on Xmas, it's nothing but one solid infomercial these days. :saywhat:
-Kevin
cameraman
01-06-13, 08:14 PM
Griffin is 22. Is he going to have a career when he is 25?
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