Animated movies

[stroker]

I found a copy of "The Point" at the local library a few weeks ago and brought it home to watch with the girls. They didn't enjoy it as much as I did, but then I had memories of it to prompt my interest. That started me thinking that this is a pretty eclectic group and we could probably have a pretty good thread about traditional animated movies, not the computer animated ones.

Just looking to start a discussion. I was interested in animation in undergrad school. Never did anything with it, but...

Any favorites?

[dando]

Dude, it begins and ends with Disney. Period. Roy E. brought the animation division back from the abyss, and John Lasseter (Walt, Jr. IMO) has kept it going after Roy E. passed. Roy E. created the Save Disney campaign with Stanley Gould when Eisner was driving it into the ground. Ultimately the campaign Eisner being ousted, Iger took over the reigns, and the deal to acquire Pixar was completed. Jobs wanted nothing to do with Eisner. Most folks just don't realize the ground Walt broke in animation as well the amusement parks (the concept, AAs, etc). I highly recommend The Man Behind the Myth for a deeper look into what Walt created.

And don't get me started on Disney stuff...Elmo can attest to that. ;) I spent almost an hour IMing with our graphics designer on Disney movies and WDW earlier today. :)

As far as faves...Song of the South for combing live action with animation (a first), Steamboat Willie for the first animated short with sound, and Pinocchio for the first use of the multiplane camera (a first for a '3D' experience 1940). Fantasia is also commonly a reference animation flick. Walt wanted to make a sequel of it, but he passed away too soon. Roy E. completed the project 24 years after Walt passed away.

http://inventors.about.com/od/dstartinventors/a/Walt_Disney.htm

-Kevin

[datachicane]

Disney? Fantasia is amazing, but there's plenty if clinkers in there, too, and the last thirty years have been annoyingly formulaic.

I'd never describe myself as an anime fan, but Hayao Miyazaki has done some absolutely beautiful stuff. Some of it is definitely targeted towards specific age groups (like Ponyo for very small kids), but all of it has a subtlety that Disney hasn't had since the '40s.

[dando]

Disney? Fantasia is amazing, but there's plenty if clinkers in there, too, and the last thirty years have been annoyingly formulaic.

I'd never describe myself as an anime fan, but Hayao Miyazaki has done some absolutely beautiful stuff. Some of it is definitely targeted towards specific age groups (like Ponyo for very small kids), but all of it has a subtleness that Disney hasn't had since the '40s.

There was a long period where Disney lost its way after Walt passed away in the 70s and 80s. My point was that Walt introduced many, many innovations, and in fact created/introduced animated movies to the mainstream audience starting with Snow White. Disney came back in the early 90s under the leadership of Eisner, Frank Wells, and Ovitz. Under that management team, Disney released a number of widely popular and successful movies like Ariel, Beauty and the Beast, and the Lion King, etc. were released. When Wells died in a helicopter crash in 1994, Ovitz and Eisner didn't get along and Disney spiraled down again. It wasn't until Eisner & co. were ousted and the animation division was resurrected by Roy E. and Lasseter that the quality returned. Features like The Princess and the Frog and Tangled returned them to their past glory. Wreck-It Ralph is also a good watch.

Yes, I am a Disney homer, but when you look @ the body of work compared to the likes of Don Bluth and Dreamworks, there is simply no comparison. And as Elmo will attest, I stil rant on Di$ney on other things.

On a side note, I love that Frank Wells was memorialized in the Matterhorn @ Disneyland. Paying homage to the man that may have saved Disney from being sucked into another conglomerate. It's in good hands now with Lasseter and Iger (tho, I'm not a big fan of Iger, but he's better than Eisner).

-Kevin

[datachicane]

No arguing about the historical quality of Disney's work, but all of the recent animated features (Mermaid, Beauty, Lion, etc., etc.), while successful, seem built around a test-marketed formula rather than any kind of real imagination (and what imagination is present is arguably lifted in toto from other sources- ever seen Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast or Tezuka's Lion?).

It may be a successful business model for them, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I honestly hope they can break out of this rut, but it's been pushing 30 years now.

Did I mention I was a huge fan of Fantasia? Just a glimmer of that sort of imagination would go a long, long ways.

[stroker]

I guess I'm thinking there's a large enough body of work out there BEYOND The Mouse that is worth talking about. Anime is a good start. I liked "Wizards" although Bakshi disappointed overall. All the computer stuff, while entertaining, isn't necessarily "Art". What films transcend "commercial" really take the form to the limit?

[dando]

No arguing about the historical quality of Disney's work, but all of the recent animated features (Mermaid, Beauty, Lion, etc., etc.), while successful, seem built around a test-marketed formula rather than any kind of real imagination (and what imagination is present is arguably lifted in toto from other sources- ever seen Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast or Tezuka's Lion?).

It may be a successful business model for them, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I honestly hope they can break out of this rut, but it's been pushing 30 years now.

Did I mention I was a huge fan of Fantasia? Just a glimmer of that sort of imagination would go a long, long ways.

Oh, I don't dispute that recent releases are not as ground breaking as in the past. I'm just happy they brought back hand-drawn animation. I'm a fan of both, but the effort it takes to hand draw the cells is simply amazing (having watched the artists work @ DHS). And consider that Walt brought in live animals for the artists to create Bambi. Astounding. And really, what has been significant from Hollywood the past couple of decades. Few and far between. :(

I suggest El Grupo and The Man Behind the Myth documentaries for folks to understand the back story for Walt's work. And I would love to have seen Walt produce the follow up to Fantasia, but thankful that Roy E. followed through with Walt's vision. Just as I am that Roy O. completed the vision for the Florida Project (WDW). Without that, I have no idea what Elmo and I would do for vacations. ;)

-Kevin

[datachicane]

...and here I thought I was the only one that remembered 'Wizards'.

I've got this hanging next to me here in the geekroom:

http://www.filmposters.com/images/posters/471.jpg

[stroker]

...and here I thought I was the only one that remembered 'Wizards'.

I've got this hanging next to me here in the geekroom:

http://www.impawards.com/1977/posters/wizards.jpg

A red X?

:p

I used to have the poster before the house flooded when a water pipe burst...

[dando]

I guess I'm thinking there's a large enough body of work out there BEYOND The Mouse that is worth talking about. Anime is a good start. I liked "Wizards" although Bakshi disappointed overall. All the computer stuff, while entertaining, isn't necessarily "Art". What films transcend "commercial" really take the form to the limit?

Oh there is, but Walt is the creator and considered the gold standard of animation. Keep in mind I have many friends that work in design, and a few that flew the coop to Pixar/DIS back in the mid-90s. I'll ask a few of them if they have other recommendations.

-Kevin

[Elmo T]

Why no love for the computer generated stuff you grumpy old men?

My 12yo daughter is making music videos with her iPod - with all sorts of special effects. The times are changing.

That motion capture thing freaks me out though. :saywhat:

[datachicane]

Why no love for the computer generated stuff you grumpy old men?


'Sita Sings the Blues' is very cool- the Ramayana with soundtrack by Annette Hanshaw.

[dando]

Why no love for the computer generated stuff you grumpy old men?

My 12yo daughter is making music videos with her iPod - with all sorts of special effects. The times are changing.

That motion capture thing freaks me out though. :saywhat:

Much love for both forms of animation here. Especially the details like the moving hair in Monsters Inc. I'm just old school liking the animation breakthroughs Walt made with multiplane, the first color animation with Flowers and Trees, the first talking animation with Steamboat Willie, etc. Something to be said about creating the wheel and paying homage. I still have my Toy Story toys that BK gave away in 1995...well, kinda. The girls kinda 'adopted' them. :) I also grew up watching Speed Racer. As far as CGI, Gollum from LOTR is also very well done.

Also a HUGE fan of Rankin/Bass stop action.

And I'm not a grumpy old man...just grumpy. And old. ;)

Now get off my yard. :p

-Kevin

[Ruok]

Fritz the Cat

Heavy Metal

Discuss

[stroker]

Why no love for the computer generated stuff you grumpy old men?

My 12yo daughter is making music videos with her iPod - with all sorts of special effects. The times are changing.

That motion capture thing freaks me out though. :saywhat:

Maybe there's hope.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aTLySbGoMX0

followed by:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZJLtujW6FY