View Full Version : Re-Revolt like an Egyptian
http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/protest-egypt-fireworks.jpg?w=940&h=705
Protesters to Egypt's Morsy: You have one day to step down
They say Morsy's policies are to blame for a breakdown in law and order, for an economy that's gone south, and for a gas shortage that has Egyptians waiting at the pumps for hours.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/01/world/meast/egypt-protests/index.html
Game on.
TravelGal
07-01-13, 12:50 PM
Game on.
:thumbup: They are giving hope to so many people in so many other countries.
stroker
07-01-13, 01:39 PM
:thumbup: They are giving hope to so many people in so many other countries.
I'm not being facetious--hope for what? I don't think half of them know what they want, let alone what they don't want.
48 Hours
Egypt's powerful military warned Monday that the nation's first democratically-elected leader in decades had just 48 hours to answer the demands made by thousands of anti-government protesters calling for his ouster, or it would intervene to force a political transition.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57591775/egypt-military-gives-president-morsi-48-hours-to-reach-agreement-with-opposition-or-face-political-transition/
Also, the military is already disarming and arresting bodyguards of Muslim Brotherhood officials. http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/egypt-forces-arrest-brotherhood-leader-s-guards-sources
Apply, rinse, repeat as necessary. Perhaps King Tut would be a good choice as a write-in candidate for the next election.
Bl5dZxA-rZY
:gomer:
-Kevin
TravelGal
07-02-13, 11:16 AM
I'm not being facetious--hope for what? I don't think half of them know what they want, let alone what they don't want.
It's a relevant question. I see it as hope for change. That Egypt stood up to one dictator, stepped back and said they didn't get it right yet, and is trying again is worth noting.
I agree that a lot of the demonstrators are out there because their neighbor said, "Let's go!" or they just want to be "part of it" and they don't know what "it" is. Then there are the mercenaries and conflict seekers that go anywhere there is a fight just for the joy of fighting.
Change is always messy. In an authoritarian state, it's almost unheard of. I give them a :thumbup: for trying.
It's a little bothersome because this guy was elected. But my impression is that the fuss is partially about him overstepping his powers. Of course the Egyptian military would never do that. :saywhat:
Nobody liked being told what to do by Mubarak.
Nobody liked being told what to do by the military.
Nobody liked the new Constitution.
Nobody liked being told what to do by Morsi.
Nobody likes being told what to do by the military.
wait a minute... ;)
It looks chaotic, but these United States of America had to experiment with the Articles of Confederation before they agreed on the Constituion.
Yelling at each other = OK.
Shooting at each other = Problem.
It's a little bothersome because this guy was elected. But my impression is that the fuss is partially about him overstepping his powers. Of course the Egyptian military would never do that. :saywhat:
Is the Turkish military getting ready to do this again, too?
Last I heard, they were going to sit the recent unrest out, but maybe Egypt might spur them on.
If my Micky Mouse watch is correct, the military imposed deadline presented to Morsi has now expired. Has the crowd gone all Mussolini on him yet?
There are reports that the military is taking over, but I can't find any confirmed reports. Apparently, the state TV station is now controlled by the military CNN report (http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/03/world/meast/egypt-protests/index.html) and Morsy is under house arrest.
New York Times reporter David D. Kirkpatrick @kirkpatricknyt
egyptian security officials: a travel ban on President Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood Supreme Guide, and his deputy Khairat el-Shater
https://twitter.com/kirkpatricknyt
The question is what happens to the Muslim Brotherhood? Will there be a civil war?
edit:
Reports confirmed by Egypt's press: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/world_news&id=9160490
TravelGal
07-03-13, 12:14 PM
The question is what happens to the Muslim Brotherhood? Will there be a civil war?
That's been the question from the very beginning. It's just that now we are getting closer to the answer.
stroker
07-03-13, 12:39 PM
So much for Egyptian Tourism this year...
WOW. I've never seen so many happy people SO glad to be taken over by the military! Nice coup. Top General just sent Morsi a note informing him he was no longer President! Simple. I'm sure the "best" is to come, however.:shakehead Hard to shake about 80 years of military dictatorship. A year of withdrawal pains must have been enough. Maybe they'll get it right in the NEXT election.
TravelGal
07-03-13, 03:46 PM
So much for Egyptian Tourism this year...
You're not kidding. The tourism minister already resigned early yesterday. He's no fool.
WOW. I've never seen so many happy people SO glad to be taken over by the military! Nice coup. Top General just sent Morsi a note informing him he was no longer President! Simple. I'm sure the "best" is to come, however.:shakehead Hard to shake about 80 years of military dictatorship. A year of withdrawal pains must have been enough. Maybe they'll get it right in the NEXT election.
Hasn't the military in Egypt always been the root of power? The military overthrew Farouk in 1952 and has been responsible for much of the rule since then.
Compared to the other revolutions around the world, the Egyptian military's actions have been commendable. They refused to crush the protests, supported free elections, and allowed a civilian government they disagreed with to take power, at least for awhile. ;)
There's room for improvement, especially in stopping the brutal way women are treated in Tahrir Square. WTF Egypt?
TravelGal
07-03-13, 04:06 PM
Compared to the other revolutions around the world, the Egyptian military's actions have been commendable. They refused to crush the protests, supported free elections, and allowed a civilian government they disagreed with to take power, at least for awhile. ;)
There's room for improvement, especially in stopping the brutal way women are treated in Tahrir Square. WTF Egypt?
Agreed. I'm hoping for the same in Turkey where the military has also always been in control behind the facade of whomever is up front. We'll see.
Napoleon
07-03-13, 04:21 PM
. . the Egyptian military's actions have been commendable.
I'm sorry, but its nearly impossible for me to see this as anything then what it is, the illegitimate overthrow of a duly democratically elected government. That is not the path to Egypt ever becoming a true democracy, and there is nothing commendable about it (it would be differant if we were talking about someone more like, say, Pol Pot winning an election, but we are not).
Also it would be an absolute catastrophe if something like that happened in Turkey.
That is not to say both countries do not have issues with all the other bells and whisles, mostly in the form of minority rights and protections, that make a country that happens to hold elections a actual functioning democracy, but I can't see how you fix that issue out of the barrel of a gun.
TravelGal
07-03-13, 05:07 PM
but I can't see how you fix that issue out of the barrel of a gun.
I take your point but I also remember very well that all the people I spoke to throughout Turkey last year said they relied on the military to take over should things go too far with their head of government. It's happened there before. They trust the military. Definitely a different viewpoint from ours.
It appears the people of Egypt had second thoughts about being ruled by the Muslim Brotherhood and the Army decided to help out. Maybe they will choose differently with the next vote.
I'm starting to wonder if people in that part of the world are really ready for democracy.
...the illegitimate overthrow of a duly democratically elected government.
The military didn't start the revolution; they kept it peaceful. Both are uncharacteristic of a regular old fashion "line 'em up against the wall" military coup.
stroker
07-03-13, 07:23 PM
I'm starting to wonder if people in that part of the world are really ready for democracy.
The litmus test in that region will be the first Arab state to recognize Israel's right to exist. Until they do that it's all an exercise about how they want to commit suicide. If they approach Israel with a legitimate and genuine peace offer, then I'd agree with you.
Already tried that. The guy got killed for his efforts! To do that again will take a monumental effort... from an Egyptian leader with the full support of the military AND an electoral majority in the SECOND free election there in the last 5000 years! Simple, right? Sorry, Nappy, I don't see the military intervention as a violation of Morsi's election as much as it had the effect of a really FAST impeachment and removal from office! He was BAD for Egypt, PERIOD. In ONE year he damaged that country in so many ways. Ask the Christians! ONE very large group was happy to have him and upset to see him go and THERE is where the trouble is most likely to start, not the military.
cameraman
07-05-13, 10:23 PM
Tonight we have running street battles between Morsi supporters and opponents in just about every major city in the nation. This is does not bode well for any kind of democratic government going forward.
not good.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2qlrdec.jpg
not good.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2qlrdec.jpg
Should this be cross-posted to the run b!#^@es, run (http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9518) thread? Or maybe the 'Murica! (http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17929) thread? :D
The question here is this: Was Morsi elected because the majority of Egyptians believe in what he and his Party ultimately started doing or was it simply a question of ignorance of the people and superior organization of the Brotherhood? Normally in a democratic government that's an "oops" and it should be allowed to self correct. But were Morsi and company working to dismantle the mechanisms that would have allowed that correction?
devilmaster
07-06-13, 04:23 PM
But were Morsi and company working to dismantle the mechanisms that would have allowed that correction?
http://www.france24.com/en/20121122-egypt-morsi-sweeping-final-powers-presidency-appeal
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/11/no-one-pharaoh-should-have-all-power/59267/
stroker
07-06-13, 04:48 PM
not good.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2qlrdec.jpg
The rocket tubes are empty. The Chain Gun is the only thing on that Apache that might hurt somebody. As we know from videos in the 'Stan, it will certainly do that. If they were really serious about crowd control they'd load up some napalm on a F-16 and do a few slow flybys...
stroker
07-06-13, 04:50 PM
...was it simply a question of ignorance of the people and superior organization of the Brotherhood?
Yes. Unfortunately democracies don't come with training wheels.
Yes. Unfortunately democracies don't come with training wheels.
They are definitely prone to user error.
Tech question here...are those green lasers that are being used to "paint" helicopters as they do the demonstrator flyoverers the same technology a missile battery would be using to shoot them down? Green, red...what's the difference? Tell you what, when I was flying around in those damn things NObody had lasers pointed at us and I would be VERY uncomfortable if ANYbody was doing it now. I suspect it has been used as a celebratory thing in Tahrir Square and it looks real pretty on TV but try that around here on an incoming airliner and you could be in BIG trouble! Not much has been said about it on the news...just wondering how a pilot and crew might be reacting to something like that.:confused:
According to this article, they're just standard laser pointers sold by street vendors in the square.
http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/WOR-the-secret-behind-green-laser-lights-in-tahrir-square-4311141-PHO.html
http://compare.ebay.com/like/300908787490?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
I think green is preferred over red because green is the color of revolution the middle east and the green shows up better since the human eye is most senstive to green wavelengths of light. I don't know how they get those cool fan shapes. Maybe there are couple of physics honor students down there with filters to bend the light. ;)
Yeah, I figured they were readily available. Probably the same thing kids here (used to?) take to school to raise hell. With THAT many pointed at the helicopters doesn't it become a dangerous celebration? They became a major "safety" issue (eyes) in classrooms and police started going after people using them around airports, though I haven't heard anything about either lately.
They trust the military. Definitely a different viewpoint from ours.
Different in what way? As far as I can tell more Americans fall in the "I don't care if they spy on me, I have nothing to hide" category than in the truly independent citizen category. Who do you think is really in charge in this country?
Napoleon
07-11-13, 06:13 AM
So it looks like Morsi was kneecapped from the beginning:
nytimes.com/2013/07/11/world/middleeast/improvements-in-egypt-suggest-a-campaign-that-undermined-morsi.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&pagewanted=all&
TravelGal
07-11-13, 11:18 AM
Different in what way? As far as I can tell more Americans fall in the "I don't care if they spy on me, I have nothing to hide" category than in the truly independent citizen category. Who do you think is really in charge in this country?
I think I see a red flag in our future so I'll let let that be a rhetorical question.
So it looks like Morsi was kneecapped from the beginning:
nytimes.com/2013/07/11/world/middleeast/improvements-in-egypt-suggest-a-campaign-that-undermined-morsi.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&pagewanted=all&
This cannot surprise anyone, can it? A government in place for 30 years has deep roots. Maybe no one could have taken over and produced change that would have succeeded. Maybe Morsi gave himself sweeping powers, realizing that was the only shot he had. Maybe the majority of Egyptians realized they had made a big mistake.
I think I see a red flag in our future so I'll let let that be a rhetorical question.
Good call. An interesting point but a tangent from the original topic.
Napoleon
07-14-13, 06:33 AM
Yep, the fix as in from the get go:
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424127887324425204578601700051224658-lMyQjAxMTAzMDEwMzExNDMyWj.html?mod=wsj_valettop_em ail
So now the military is shooting civilians in the street? That's great, just great.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/27/egypt-muslim-brotherhood-morsi-supporters-killed
Seemed like something new was happening...nope. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. :(
So now the military is shooting civilians in the street? That's great, just great.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/27/egypt-muslim-brotherhood-morsi-supporters-killed
Seemed like something new was happening...nope. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. :(
The military is opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood. That is not really new.
stroker
08-16-13, 01:23 PM
things are gettin' pretty ugly. I'm guessing full blown civil war in three, two, one....
Which side does the US get to pick?
Let's see, the military that is slaughtering the democratically-elected "terrorists", or the Muslim Bros that hate us?
Maybe we drone the military leaders and tell the rest to give it another try.
I don't think we should sit this one out, though. We can't let Egypt turn into Syria.
I don't know, If they are busy fighting amongst themselves they aren't bothering the rest of the world. :\
I think the next phase is suicide bombings. :(
cameraman
08-25-13, 06:14 PM
As per usual the local scum of the earth have taken advantage of the chaos in Egypt to loot and then destroy an archeology museum in Mallawi. They cleaned it out, stealing every single artifact that didn't require a forklift to move. Archaeologists are publishing photographs of as much of the collection as possible to try to prevent the fencing of the artifacts. They're using Facebook no less.
You'll probably need a Facebook account to see this. (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.675090315854366.1073741831.648057078557690&type=1)
http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/705/cache/egypt-mallawi-museum-looting-4_70585_600x450.jpg
It turns out that there has been looting all up and down the Nile since the first revolt started a year ago.:shakehead: :flaming:
Insomniac
08-25-13, 06:36 PM
It's a shame. Egypt was reacquiring stuff up to this point and now some (most?) of it is gone.
The irony of the recent repatriation efforts is that foreign countries used to argue that they were holding onto the artifacts for safe keeping. Without civilization, there is no civility.
During WWII European countries took steps to protect their treasures. Britain, for example, hid things in old mine shafts, and France surrendered. I hope the Egyptians took similar steps.
Napoleon
08-26-13, 02:20 PM
During WWII European countries took steps to protect their treasures. Britain, for example, hid things in old mine shafts, and France surrendered. I hope the Egyptians took similar steps.
A book came out a little while ago about how in WWII the US Army had a unit tasked with saving artifacts which is just about to come out as a movie:
felsazClWcI
:laugh: Ocean's 11 + Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou + National Socialist Party of Germany (Nazis)
I'd watch that.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.