Green Green Green!!!... [Archive]

Trevor Longman

07-07-13, 06:12 PM

I was there with my dad and honestly, I had a great time. It wasn't the most exciting race, I wasn't too happy with the Ganassi 1-2-3, and I was bummed to see Hinch crash out on lap 1, but it was a great day. I don't care what anyone says, 220 is 220. They were damn quick out there. Especially sitting outside the exit of 3 was pretty incredible. Also, the commentators weren't kidding about the crowd. It was pretty packed in spots and generally full in a lot of it. Easily the biggest crowd I've seen for a non-NASCAR oval race outside of Indy in a long time.

Andrew Longman

07-07-13, 07:49 PM

It took an hour to get out of the paring lot and nearly another hour to get to route 80. And i was pretty clever as a "local". Big enough crowd. :)

Good racing where in got the feeling that just getting around the track at speed was a challenge. I thought graham would hit the wall every time he made http://youtu.be/x1ZQawbo4Mo
Definitely echos of the last time I was there for an indycar race in 83. Still needs more diversity of cars and drivers and engines but it was cool. I've never said that about an IRL race.

Andrew Longman

07-07-13, 07:51 PM

NismoZ

07-07-13, 11:11 PM

gerhard911

07-07-13, 11:22 PM

LOL, so 3 peeps here found the race entertaining :laugh: Mebbe if you can get Racing Troof to post up you can get to four :rofl:

Good to see that NismoZ wasn't left talkin' to himself. I was worried the white coats might come by to "visit". :saywhat:

Rogue Leader

07-08-13, 12:28 AM

I was there today as well with some friends. I had to eat my words when I said it wouldn't be too hard getting in and out as the traffic was pretty crazy both ways. There were a LOT of people in the stands there, a LOT of RV's in the lot, and everything was packed. It was probably the best crowd I've seen for an IndyCar race, and all the "good seats" were prettymuch full. The race while kind of a parade was still fun, and they were so fast there it was exciting.

Plus I got to meet Simon Pageneaud, he took a pic with us, VERY nice guy and I appreciated him taking a few seconds after a HOT race to take a pic with some fans and shake my hand.

Ed_Severson

07-08-13, 12:35 AM

Certainly fast and the race improved as it progressed. Really great pitstops by many of the teams. Couldn't BELIEVE Kanaan clipped a guy from behind then said he didn't. I believe he would have won without that wing-breaking mistake.

No chance. He'd still have had to make one more stop than Dixon.

I was surprised by the crowd. It was by no means a full house, but that's the biggest oval crowd I've seen outside of Indy in quite a while. It's an interesting place ... quite a compromise between T1 and T3.

SurfaceUnits

07-08-13, 02:32 AM

Mehbe someone can go find out what Hooter Morgan thought about it and brings us a recap. :laugh:

TravelGal

07-08-13, 11:33 AM

As always, watched it on DVR to fast forward where "necessary." For the first part, after Hinch biffed the wall, I was doing the dishes and other odd jobs. Eventually, as Nizmo said, it somehow got more interesting. It helped a lot when Hinch came onboard to announce. About 2/3 the way through, I found myself watching every lap. Hinch had left by then and it became painful to listen to the both posse calling out HUGE things that didn't happen because they couldn't tell one car from another. Heck, I don't even care who wins and I knew more about it than they did. Nevertheless, it was fun to watch a race on a track I hadn't seen before with Irky Cars.

07-08-13, 01:10 PM

Rogue Leader

07-08-13, 01:27 PM

Regarding the crowd, I have to ask: Are there any screen caps or photos showing a good crowd?

I'm not trying to start a wizzing match, but I caught the last few laps, and what I saw of a crowd was horrible.

What I saw was very brief, and not conclusive, but it looked like 20 RVs and much less in the stands than Milwaukee (even accounting for size differences).

I am willing to be wrong on this.

I can show some photos from my seat when I upload them later today but its really only the section I'm in, and obviously I was focused on the track.

BTW the cars were so damn fast and the angle of the stands vs the track made it nearly impossible to get a "good" photo of anything. I went to Champ Car Montreal in 2004, the crowd for that was better, but I was honestly shocked how many people were there.

Chief

07-08-13, 01:31 PM

Not many...(click on image for side by side NASCAR comparison).

460

Oblique crowd view seems ok, but shows few campers...anywhere..

http://www.autoweek.com/galleryimage/CW/20130707/INDYCAR/707009998/PH/1/5/Pocono-fans-IndyCar.jpg

Nascar comparison:

461

stroker

07-08-13, 01:52 PM

Awful lotta red hats in the lower shot.

:p

We'll see what the overnights are... OH! Pressdog is on the job. 1.1 expected to change to a 1.0.

Still crap.

gerhard911

07-08-13, 02:02 PM

Awful lotta red hats in the lower shot.

:p

Dale jr fans in their Bud gear :gomer:

Andrew Longman

07-08-13, 02:10 PM

...but shows few campers...anywhere..Actually if the shot showed more to the right, the infield had a good amount of campers. The north (or whatever they call that part) infield section seemed closed off.

This was in no way a NASCAR crowd but by comparison I think of Nazareth back in the day when it sold out at about 45K for CART. I'd say they easily got something around that. I also saw a lot of people with T Shirts that told me they were from Indiana or the like (IMS fans) so I wonder if they will make the trek again... especially since the race only lasted 2 hours and 4 minutes. It took me that long to get out of the lot and to Rt 80.

I didn't see a lot of people sporting NASCAR swag.

One Aussie Vinyards team shirt.

Elmo T

07-08-13, 02:48 PM

One Aussie Vinyards team shirt.

The only Aussie Vineyards hat on the East coast was being worn by Emerson on Saturday afternoon in Mystic, CT ;):D:

http://i44.tinypic.com/ru1u1h.jpg

Andrew Longman

07-08-13, 05:25 PM

Elmo: super :D:thumbup:

Andrew Longman

07-08-13, 05:28 PM

Keep in mind folks that that grandstand goes almost the whole way down that massive front stretch and seats something like 120K +\-

cart7

07-08-13, 07:45 PM

There were a few overhead shots during the telecast. Except for some fan bunching towards the S/F line, the stands looked really thin on either side.

SteveH

07-08-13, 08:12 PM

30,000

http://touch.mcall.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-76593122/

DagoFast

07-09-13, 02:13 AM

OC'ers in attendance and a 1.0 final rating! It must be the long awaited "Brake Out" year. :laugh:

chop456

07-09-13, 07:35 AM

Packed! :rofl:

http://cdn-6.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/1500000/1580000/1584000/1584000/1584036/s1_1.jpg

07-09-13, 08:20 AM

Keep in mind folks that that grandstand goes almost the whole way down that massive front stretch and seats something like 120K +\-

WIkipedia says something like 76k, FWIW.

Rogue Leader

07-09-13, 08:49 AM

Packed! :rofl:

http://cdn-6.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/1500000/1580000/1584000/1584000/1584036/s1_1.jpg

Compare that to most any other IndyCar oval race (except for the Indy 500), and theres a lot of people there.

stroker

07-09-13, 08:59 AM

30,000

http://touch.mcall.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-76593122/

and they had problems with parking ingress/egress? Don't they have Sprint Cup race there?

Those Keystoners must be unbelievably bored...

chop456

07-09-13, 09:26 AM

Compare that to most any other IndyCar oval race (except for the Indy 500), and theres a lot of people there.

True. Lots of $25 tickets that people apparently paid for with actual green money. Unlike the NASCAR piggyback tickets where people don't even bother to show up for something they already paid for.

Kudos to earl. With CONSISTENT progress similar to this, they'll be back to 1995 in 50 years.

Chief

07-09-13, 11:16 AM

HaY, IndYcars posted this up on Youtube to promote the race! The 1989 race! WoOOT! :thumbup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_uoQOV-RBA

And, then I watched this VVV ....what a deflating experience. The sound has no grunt, less rev, more arrogance, just a blah experience. Like a dead ****. Seriously. Compare, contrast, comment....:thumbdown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQrM1V9GAN4

(moar progress I guess...HD TV apparently encourages wider angles, less long and adventurous zooms and panning. You can't capture the speed and beauty of the sport with the lens racked back to 28MM. Get me in close, coach. These jacka**es have no clue. No clue. And it's ruined the sport.)

Racing Truth

07-09-13, 01:07 PM

Compare that to most any other IndyCar oval race (except for the Indy 500), and theres a lot of people there.

I'm interested in the varying views on the crowd, and not just here. I suppose it's about perspective, really. From a pre-split POV, yes, it was awful. From today's POV, I was pleasantly surprised. If 30k (That might be slightly on the low end, IMHO.), it's more than TX, MKE, Iowa and 10k more than Fontana last yr. Given a 24-yr. absence, I'll take it.

Andrew Longman

07-09-13, 03:00 PM

True. Lots of $25 tickets that people apparently paid for with actual green money...The $25 GA tickets were on the lower level at either ends of the grandstand. Most people there by far were in the upper level or lower center section which was all reserved seating costing more.

Not trying to be a homer on this and this was nowhere near where the sport was in 1995, but Pocono was a heck of a lot better than the IRL days at Nazareth and many other places.

Chief

07-09-13, 03:30 PM

Given a 24-yr. absence, I'll take it.

Playing the 24 year absence card, eh? You are running out of gimmicks....maybe they can return to Charlotte and glom onto the 14 or 15 year absence card there. Heck, there's 30+ tracks you can play that at.

I vote for a Pocono quadruple-header. 4X the excriment at 1/4 the sanction fee. Maybe they can exhume Charlie Jones to call the races. Maybe. :p

Rogue Leader

07-10-13, 08:56 AM

The $25 GA tickets were on the lower level at either ends of the grandstand. Most people there by far were in the upper level or lower center section which was all reserved seating costing more.

Not trying to be a homer on this and this was nowhere near where the sport was in 1995, but Pocono was a heck of a lot better than the IRL days at Nazareth and many other places.

Yeah I can agree most people were in the upper sections which were $50-$75 a ticket. And the enclosed areas were filled up those are $100+

SurfaceUnits

07-10-13, 10:20 AM

And the enclosed areas were filled up those are $100+

I didn't have to pay 100 dollars to be segregated from the typical IRL fan. I stayed home.

Rogue Leader

07-10-13, 07:20 PM

Heres a shot from where I was sitting

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NtEdkRrEYWw/UdzNkT2dbxI/AAAAAAAAAzw/4C9usCTsQa4/s800/IMG_8644.JPG

And the best pic I took all weekend

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-p5pNXgjq-Hc/UdzOLPRFZDI/AAAAAAAAA0o/S8pAYyPz_tE/s800/IMG_8677.JPG

Ed_Severson

07-10-13, 09:24 PM

You guys really should have stopped by the garage ...

Duroc

07-10-13, 10:23 PM

True. Lots of $25 tickets that people apparently paid for with actual green money.

Yeah sure.... paid.....

*** Free Tickets to Pocono Indy Car 400 ***

What: Pocono Indy Car 400
When: July 7, 2013
Where: Pocono Raceway, Long Pond, PA
Who: Open to Active Duty Service Members and their Family Members

This is the same old IRL M.O. - paper the house year one, get a decent audience (At least by hapless IRL standards), and then year two the "hey wah happened?" routine when the curiosity seekers don't come back.

The money shot from the From the SteveH link:

Rick and Jason Keenhold operate K&K Collectibles out of Wind Gap. The father and son have worked on the grounds at Pocono for 20 years, and Jason Keenhold said the crowd Sunday was significantly more subdued than the faithful NASCAR followers. The Keenholds had their two tents set up near the entrance. "We do a decent amount of sales for NASCAR, but we haven't done a lot today," said Jason Keenhold, an assistant football coach at Pen Argyl High. "It's two hours before the race and if it was a NASCAR race, you wouldn't be able to fit a golf cart through this spot."

There's some other fan quotes that add up to a collective yawn.

Rogue Leader

07-10-13, 11:34 PM

You guys really should have stopped by the garage ...

I wasn't really sure if I was going or not. We got there at about 10:45 and immediately hit up the Indy Hospitality tent for some food (Which was damn good BTW), and by the time my friends showed up and ate they were getting ready to do the national anthem so we made our way to the seats.

We got into the garage after the race, but everyone was clearing their stuff out, still at least we got to see Helio and meet Simon:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BoX2FbvFEZg/UdzPZFQo3oI/AAAAAAAAA2Y/K_jlBPYdUBA/s800/IMG_8708.JPG

Ziggy

07-11-13, 09:13 AM

Andrew Longman

07-11-13, 09:57 AM

It was packed because I said it was!I don't believe anyone said it was packed.

I sympathize with the inclination for a good solid schadenfreude moment with regard to anything the Hulmans have touched -- they fully deserve it, but the comments are based on actually being there.

My youngest actually saw a race car going 210+ mph. That was a first and that was a good thing. My oldest hadn't seen cars that fast since CART last ran at MIS when Tracy's pole time was something like 237 (friggin wicked cool). I've been to CART and IRL races for decades and this had a heck of a lot more people at it than I saw in my last few trips to RA, Cleveland, MIS or Nazareth. Oh, they don't even run there anymore. That's how successful those events were. Granted, if this race cost me more that $25 and it was further than a 2 hour drive I wouldn't have gone and I used to drive 2 days to RA. This is surely not 1995, but it also isn't 2001 either.

I don't believe that qualifies me as an idiot. At worst I am guilty of not having something better to do last Sunday.

DagoFast

07-11-13, 10:04 AM

So, not having anything better to do and $25 of disposable income is a really shining endorsement! #brakeout!

Andrew Longman

07-11-13, 10:34 AM

So, not having anything better to do and $25 of disposable income is a really shining endorsement! #brakeout!No. Having spent $25 and an afternoon I didn't have many regrets. That's it. No breakout claimed. Look, the place wasn't empty as open wheel events have usually been for 15 years. It really should be OK to hold that notion in your head along side all the good hate for TG et al that they deserve. If I can do it, anyone can. :gomer:

Rogue Leader

07-11-13, 11:46 AM

It was packed because I said it was!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Take a good look at the 1989 video. Notice the motorhomes in the infield? That is a packed infield. It what kills me about the three idiots on this thread. Really, do you think you are reporting to fans who do not know better? Are you still trying to convince us OR more importantly YOURSELVES that this sport is good?

If you enjoy it, good for you. Your moronic views show thru strong and true. Viva La Hulman!

but to come here and try to PROVE otherwise is an insult to intelligent racing fans.

FO

your pal
Ziggy

Wow, thanks for calling me an idiot, douche.

Re read what I wrote again. I went in expecting to be siting by ourselves, I even told my friends that. I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that compared to prettymuch ANY other IndyCar oval race outside of the 500 I've seen on TV there was WAY more people there. As I said I was at Montreal in 2004, the crowd there was definitely bigger (there was not one free seat in the stands at all and every "good" spot to watch on the grass was packed out too). The race was a bit of a parade but was enjoyable, and it was barely even 2 hours because they went so fast. You're never gonna get a crowd like 1986. Heck even NASCAR doesn't get the crowds like it used to, so how the hell do you expect this to?

Is it Champ Car? No. Is it Better than watching tintops go roundy round? Absolutely. There are plenty of OW drivers out there who would have preferred if CCWS was what was happening here. It isn't. Its time to stop living in the past, build a bridge, and get over it. You sound like a child who broke his favorite toy and is blaming everyone else.

I'm not even going to start on the "intelligent racing fans" comment, because you've already proved you aren't one, and your 5 year old response to us proves you also have no idea who you're speaking to either.

Chief

07-11-13, 12:46 PM

Ok, so the thrill of watching open wheelers tempt the new and improved Pocono has past. We get that...

Was the 8 Indy Lights cars, the hideous DW12 and specmobile racing enough....enough to save this sport from the crapper? Is that and two hour 400 miler enough to bring you back again? Tell me please, is THIS ok, good, great, sucks?...whatever.

We used to drive 4.5 hrs ONE WAY to see a 1.5hr CART race at Nazareth. I wouldn't get out of an electric chair to go see the IRL ANYWHERE, and Pocono is closer....I even stopped going to Watkins Glen when the crapwagons raced there. The IMS/IRL made it very clear to me they didn't want my disposable income, so they get none of it.

Andrew Longman

07-11-13, 02:08 PM

Is that and two hour 400 miler enough to bring you back again? Tell me please, is THIS ok, good, great, sucks?...whatever.Well I didn't stop by the ticket booth on my way out and pick up tickets for next year. I don't know if I will go again next year. I will certainly not feel compelled.

I hate the DW12. It hurts my eyes. I greatly prefer to watch sports cars these days. I still drive long distances to see 5-6 sports car races a year. I would go to great lengths to watch Indy cars on road cources and ovals if they were more like the CART days. Maybe that will happen. It certainly will not happen if there aren't more "successful" events like Pocono. Somebody has to prove that the investment in a better car and sponsorship and team ownership is worth it. In the race to the bottom the last 18 years that has not happened.

Rogue Leader

07-11-13, 06:04 PM

Well I didn't stop by the ticket booth on my way out and pick up tickets for next year. I don't know if I will go again next year. I will certainly not feel compelled.

I hate the DW12. It hurts my eyes. I greatly prefer to watch sports cars these days. I still drive long distances to see 5-6 sports car races a year. I would go to great lengths to watch Indy cars on road cources and ovals if they were more like the CART days. Maybe that will happen. It certainly will not happen if there aren't more "successful" events like Pocono. Somebody has to prove that the investment in a better car and sponsorship and team ownership is worth it. In the race to the bottom the last 18 years that has not happened.

I had a good time but there really is no relief there. It was really really hot and kind of hard to keep up with everything because the track was so fast. They could use 1 more jumbotron at start finish in reality. I chose between this race and the NEGP at Limerock. Next year I may do Limerock instead just because its more of an all day event, and you can sit in the shade and walk away to get something to drink and really not miss anything. We missed the pit lane crash and about 30 laps just going to get a lemonade to cool off.

If I were to go to an Indycar race again I think I'd rather do Baltimore because thats a similar all day event like Limerock. AND you can sit in the shade.

DagoFast

07-11-13, 06:46 PM

And...the buyers remorse kicks in. :laugh:

Ziggy

07-11-13, 08:38 PM

well, if you go to baltimore be sure to check in here with the blow by blow :rofl:

I don't think you made any converts (for the umpteenth time)

Gnam

07-11-13, 09:33 PM

Know your Indycar drivers?

1. (17) Scott Dixon, Honda
2. (12) Charlie Kimball, Honda
3. (20) Dario Franchitti, Honda
4. (4) Will Power, Chevy
5. (15) Josef Newgarden, Honda
6. (8) Simon Pagenaud, Honda
7. (22) Justin Wilson, Honda
8. (6) Helio Castroneves, Chevy
9. (14) Ed Carpenter, Chevy
10. (1) Marco Andretti, Chevy
11. (9) Simona de Silvestro, Chevy
12. (13) James Jakes, Honda
13. (5) Tony Kanaan, Chevy
14. (19) Ryan Briscoe, Chevy
15. (21) Pippa Mann, Honda
16. (11) Sebastien Bourdais, Chevy
17. (24) Alex Tagliani, Honda
18. (16) Graham Rahal, Honda
19. (10) Tristan Vautier, Honda
20. (2) Ryan Hunter-Reay, Chevy
21. (23) E.J. Viso, Chevy
22. (7) Takuma Sato, Honda
23. (18) Sebastian Saavedra, Chevy
24. (3) James Hinchcliffe, Chevy

Now that the hate has dulled to indifference and apathy, I have to admit that I don't know who some of those drivers are, and I didn't know there was race at Pocono. If someone made plans to attend/watch a motorsports event and enjoyed themselves, then good. :thumbup:

It was mentioned that the race was a parade, but do the cars still travel in packs for door-to-door racing excitement?
I haven't heard of any flips, blow overs, or trips to the grater this year. Have there been any?
Is it still foot to the floor racing?
Is there a published rule book?
Are the teams self-sufficient or does IMS still pass out cash/leases/cars?
Is the Indy 500 winners' purse still confiscated?
Do they still talk about not having enough American drivers?
Do they still talk about Danica during the broadcasts?
Is someone paying Ed Carpenter to drive? :gomer:

gerhard911

07-11-13, 09:48 PM

Now that the hate has dulled to indifference and apathy...

Speak for yourself. My hate (and I suspect quite a few others' here) still burns with white hot intensity.

Rogue Leader

07-12-13, 09:01 AM

well, if you go to baltimore be sure to check in here with the blow by blow :rofl:

I don't think you made any converts (for the umpteenth time)

Wasn't trying to. Just relaying my experience.

Easy

07-12-13, 02:23 PM

Indifference and apathy would mean something other than following it from afar just to post declarations of hatred like some stalker ex. I think most of the indifferent have not checked the OWR forum in some time.

Wasn't trying to. Just relaying my experience.

I guess you should remember to not post about Indycar in the (non-F1) Open Wheel Racing sub-forum...

Rogue Leader

07-12-13, 03:24 PM

Indifference and apathy would mean something other than following it from afar just to post declarations of hatred like some stalker ex. I think most of the indifferent have not checked the OWR forum in some time.

I guess you should remember to not post about Indycar in the (non-F1) Open Wheel Racing sub-forum...

Notice all the GP2 and 3 talk here lol. And yes perfect analogy about the stalker ex.... Like I said people time to get over it.

It was mentioned that the race was a parade, but do the cars still travel in packs for door-to-door racing excitement? no more pack racing thankfully
I haven't heard of any flips, blow overs, or trips to the grater this year. Have there been any? no
Is it still foot to the floor racing? no
Is there a published rule book? yes
Are the teams self-sufficient or does IMS still pass out cash/leases/cars? they sre self sufficient, one team folded this year already
Is the Indy 500 winners' purse still confiscated? no idea
Do they still talk about not having enough American drivers? no
Do they still talk about Danica during the broadcasts? very occasionally
Is someone paying Ed Carpenter to drive? :gomer:he owns his own team

Responses in bold

SurfaceUnits

07-12-13, 05:39 PM

no more pack racing thankfully - and real IRL fans are irate because if you know the cars aren't going to crash and fly it takes the excitement out of it (Paftard)

and if they go to standing starts, the few remaining fans, who threatened to leave over a myriad of reasons before, have threatened to leave again :gomer:

indyfan31

07-12-13, 11:02 PM

Is it still foot to the floor racing? no

From what I've seen, yes.

Rogue Leader

07-13-13, 01:05 AM

From what I've seen, yes.

I don't know what you're watching but the drivers have been saying its not like that, however its also because the series contrived it to be that way. One of the tracks recently the drivers said the cars were downright hard to just keep on track. The problem was they were also slow.

Indy

07-15-13, 02:35 PM

Let's have a big fight with competing ideologies, cult mentality, and everything that is holy about internet forums. :gomer:

5

SurfaceUnits

07-15-13, 02:39 PM

Let's have a big fight with competing ideologies, cult mentality, and everything that is holy about internet forums. :gomer:

5

You suck

4

Indy

07-15-13, 02:45 PM

You suck

4

Before you insult me you will have to identify your allegiance to an AOW ideology. I need to know whether to hate you or think you a genius, and I can't be arsed to read the whole thread. :gomer:

3

stroker

07-15-13, 02:59 PM

Before you insult me you will have to identify your allegiance to an AOW ideology. I need to know whether to hate you or think you a genius, and I can't be arsed to read the whole thread. :gomer:

3

Is his name in Green?

SurfaceUnits

07-15-13, 03:19 PM

07-15-13, 05:11 PM

Surface and Indy double-posting numbers in a countdown. :thumbdown:

1

:)

I supported the CCWS Powered By Spec, with tv views, travel, tix, etc.
Come around the year before the end, it was a bit embarrassing.

Fun, but in the kissing-your-sister-while-on-a-moped kind of way. (hey, don't judge me!)

IMO, from what I have been able to see, IC is about 75% of where CCWS was at the end.

I think it will be great entertainment to watch the family **** even that modest improvement up!

indyfan31

07-15-13, 07:03 PM

I don't know what you're watching but the drivers have been saying its not like that, however its also because the series contrived it to be that way. One of the tracks recently the drivers said the cars were downright hard to just keep on track. The problem was they were also slow.

In the same sentence you said "it's not like that", followed by "the series contrived it to be that way". so, is it, or isn't it?
If it really isn't like that anymore then the on-screen telemetry is stuck on full throttle and no brakes. :confused:

As far as a published rule book, they must have left it back at Indianapolis this past weekend. :shakehead:

Rogue Leader

07-16-13, 01:18 PM

In the same sentence you said "it's not like that", followed by "the series contrived it to be that way". so, is it, or isn't it?
If it really isn't like that anymore then the on-screen telemetry is stuck on full throttle and no brakes. :confused:

As far as a published rule book, they must have left it back at Indianapolis this past weekend. :shakehead:

Maybe you need to learn to read, the question was whether it was pack racing (hence the answer "its not like that"), and the REASON is that "the series contrived it to be that way" (as in not foot to the floor pack racing). If you actually watch the races you would know this.

You trash on the rulebook but I believe Derrick Walker made the right call this weekend. Brian Brainfart who was standing in this weekend was the reason for the problems in the past, and luckily Derrick overruled him.

As an aside their on board telemetry sucks and is frustrating to watch, its almost a second behind what you're watching/hearing.

Chief

07-16-13, 07:02 PM

You trash on the rulebook but I believe Derrick Walker made the right call this weekend. Brian Brainfart who was standing in this weekend was the reason for the problems in the past, and luckily Derrick overruled him.

I thought they fired Brian Barnhart....and they brought him back? That legitimizes it all right thar...:laugh:

Andrew Longman

07-16-13, 08:13 PM

Just to be clear...

Pocono was not pack racing. They tried to keep their foot flat all the way around but as it always is with Pocono it is an engineering compromise. There is no perfect set up for all three corners. Which is how it was designed to be and why it was designed for Indycars. And why the NASCAR crowd generally hates it. But there is still too much downforce and too little power in the current ICS spec to make it as interesting as it once was. But it is directionally correct. Without judgment, those are the facts.

Brainfart was fired in that role. He came back as a stand in this last week in TO. That was a mistake. Walker took the hit and said he was in on the Francitti penalty without saying if he was in on the intial penalty or the resinding or both -- just that he had veto authority over anything. He said it was all on him. Which is the right way to handle it even if it wasn't completely truthful. The truth is it was all on him (even if he had to rush into to reverse the stupidity) and he said so. I expect Brainfart will not be allowed back in the role even on a one off basis.

I love the well deserved hate. It is well deserved. But we shouldn't suck more in than are already sucked in as collateral damage and if they are trying to fix it in an intellegent way we should not be merciless if it doesn't always go perfectly. Abundant geers have been earned, but it only works if it is reasonable.

And we should also make sure we have something more important to do if they don't put out a compelling product. There is plenty of suckage and they are million miles from where they need to be or would have been if TG hadn't screwed things up.

BTW, Chief you are an icon and inspriation for me. I owe a good chunk of my appreciation of the sport over the years to you. :thumbup:

SteveH

07-16-13, 08:36 PM

Why wasn't Barfeild at Toronto?

Dvdb

07-16-13, 08:39 PM

Apparently he had "border" issues.......

cameraman

07-16-13, 11:26 PM

Why wasn't Barfeild at Toronto?

The Canadians have these annoying standards where if you have ever been convicted of a DUI or just about anything worse than a parking ticket you are barred entry. They are quite strict to the point of stupidity. Nelson Mandela had to apply for a waiver to get into Canada when he was the Head of State of South Africa because of his apartheid-era conviction record. They wouldn't just waive it, his people had to fill out all the paperwork. President Bush had the same problem for a college-DUI.

Gnam

07-17-13, 03:10 AM

So what you're saying is, "Blame Canada?" ;)

indyfan31

07-17-13, 03:54 PM

Maybe you need to learn to read, the question was whether it was pack racing (hence the answer "its not like that"), and the REASON is that "the series contrived it to be that way" (as in not foot to the floor pack racing). If you actually watch the races you would know this.

You trash on the rulebook but I believe Derrick Walker made the right call this weekend. Brian Brainfart who was standing in this weekend was the reason for the problems in the past, and luckily Derrick overruled him.

As an aside their on board telemetry sucks and is frustrating to watch, its almost a second behind what you're watching/hearing.

Maybe you should learn to write. If your explanation above is what you actually meant then you should have written "the series contrived it NOT to be that way."

I didn't "trash" the rule book, my comment was about Barnhart's inability to either read it or follow it. The fact that Walker had to overrule him simply proves my point.

You have no idea what I watch or don't watch, therefore no standing to comment on it.