View Full Version : New Water Heater time
TravelGal
08-11-13, 01:48 PM
We currently have a conventional 50-gal tank that is 12 years old. It's leaking from the copper pipe connections at the TOP, drooling down the sides and making a soggy mess on the wood beneath it. Given its age, we'll probably replace the unit rather than keep wondering if its days are over. It's located inside the house, in the hall between the master bedroom and the messy office (mine) so we REALLY don't want it to let go.
Recent recommendations? I searched and found old threads but I wondered if anyone has any recent experience or thoughts. We do not want to invest in a tankless system. We'll be lucky to live in this house 10 more years so it's really not worth the investment to us. Also, we already have a functioning whole-house recirculating system installed. Thanks. :)
Good thing that you have decided to replace it on your terms. Not often people do that...
Bradford White. End of story. Don't buy the generic GE or Whirlpool from the Depot and Lowe's. They are made by American Water Heater and are crap. When I worked for a Service Expert's company in Upstate NY I did ONE warranty service call on a Bradford White. When I worked for Sears Home Repair we had the contract with American Water Heater and I was doing one warranty call on their stuff a week.
We went with a smaller unit but installed a mixing valve. You run the heater hotter than you would normally, mixing with cooler water. It should make it seem like you have a larger unit.
I have NO clue whether it works that way - but we haven't run out of hot water even when using the corner spa tub.
The new units are better insulated and thus this theoretically is sound advice.
YMMV.
indyfan31
08-12-13, 10:41 AM
If it's within the budget you may consider moving the water heater outside to remove the worry of future water disasters.
We went with a smaller unit but installed a mixing valve. You run the heater hotter than you would normally, mixing with cooler water. It should make it seem like you have a larger unit.
??
520
If it's within the budget you may consider moving the water heater outside to remove the worry of future water disasters.
And it gives you an unobstructed launch for greater altitude. [/MYTHBUSTERS]
If you don't have one already you could put a drain pan under it. If a drain pipe is accessible from there you can run a drain from the pan. That may not be enough for a catastrophic failure but it will give some protection. It's worth doing when you replace the unit.
@G - no, like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostatic_mixing_valve
My set up looks like similar to this. Running the HWH on a higher temp on newer well insulated unit is supposed to be more efficient that getting a larger HWH.
521
TravelGal
08-12-13, 01:05 PM
If it's within the budget you may consider moving the water heater outside to remove the worry of future water disasters.
We did this after the Northridge earthquake. Because of existing regulations regarding earthquake strapping, spacing between a water heater and other property lines, existing plumbing, not to mention the gas line, there was only one place to put it. We did it. It was in one of those metal sheds. It rattled incessantly, day AND night, during the Santa Anas and every other time you can imagine. It was also horribly unsightly. We put it up with for 8 years, bought and new heater, and moved it back inside.
I'll ask about the mixing valve. I like the idea of a smaller unit in case of earthquakes. The Cadillac may not be in our future, mapguy, probably the crap, due to $$$ constraints.
Andrew Longman
08-12-13, 01:32 PM
@G - no, like this
FWIW For about 35 years across three houses I've had a furnace that heated water for household heating system. Each was a slightly different system (hot water radiator, baseboard and radiant), but in each system we mixed that hotter water with cooler water for hot water to bathe and clean and each worked great.
@G - no, like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostatic_mixing_valve
My set up looks like similar to this. Running the HWH on a higher temp on newer well insulated unit is supposed to be more efficient that getting a larger HWH.
I recently got a new HWH. I forget the brand.
Due to a rebate offered, I got the high eff. for less than I would pay for regular at the big box stores. I didn't really want the high efficiency, believing that with a pilot light, in case of power failure (or zombies), I could still have hot water. Not really the case as much these days. (electronic ignition, elec. thermostats, etc.)
The unit has a covered exhaust, that opens and closes with a motor. That, plus insulation, gets you Energy Star.
I turned it up higher than my old unit, and control the temp with the faucet. I want full strength hot for the dishwasher.
I imagine the worry with having the heater set too high is the risk of somebody burning themselves.
This is how physicists replace a water heater. ;)
http://s23.postimg.org/es0eh38or/goshen_solar3.jpg
This one was installed at a college gym and used the sun to heat the water before it entered the boiler to save energy.
http://www.mennoworld.org/2011/11/21/sunshine-brighten-goshen-rec-center-showers/
TravelGal
08-12-13, 08:23 PM
Ugh, el cheepo company that we've used many times before provies GE. El great-o company that my friends use provides the Bradford White, though they don't seem to be able to say which model. :irked: They also charge $700 more for the heater plus installation. Either way, sayonara to my trip to the Seychelles. :(
Andrew Longman
08-13-13, 10:18 AM
I turned it up higher than my old unit, and control the temp with the faucet. I want full strength hot for the dishwasher.Every dishwasher I've owned heated its own water. The heating element for drying also heats the dish water.
Unless by dishwasher you mean spouse or kids. :D
I imagine the worry with having the heater set too high is the risk of somebody burning themselves.
Exactly. Kids especially.
TravelGal
08-13-13, 12:04 PM
Exactly. Kids especially.
And TravelMom. She complained that the water was not hot enough (it wasn't) so the maintenance guys cranked up the water heater. In my view it's too hot now but....so far so good. I may "fiddle with it" when I go back. ;)
Thanks, everyone for the crash course in water heaters. The die is cast. After adding the cost to replace the corroding recirculating pump and considering that Mr. Great-o gave me a Bradford White model number that can't be found on the internet AND he couldn't come til Friday, we're going with Mr. Cheap-o, who has been our plumber for quite a while and always done good work. After adding the differential for the cost of the pump, he is $900 less than Mr. Great-o. Impossible to ignore considering most of the public is surviving with the less-than-great GE's.
TravelGuy and I have mentally recorded, "I knew we should have bought the better water heater. We always say we can't afford to buy cheap" so that if the 12-year guarantee unit goes out in a year, we'll be prepared. Mapguy can also say, "I told you so." It's clear that not only the units but the service from factory reps on the Bradford and White's is superior. If I were rich instead of beautiful, I'd go that way. :D
When I needed a new water heater, I consulted this thread: http://offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?13342-Tankless-Water-Heat-Yay-or-Nay and talked to my plumber, Larry. (How can you not trust a plumber named Larry?)
His suggestion was a professional grade Rheem. He said that the Home Depot ones come with a 6 year warranty - and leak after 5 years. You get a new water heater for free, but still have to pay to have the new one installed. Go with pro-quality.
He also suggested getting the lowest efficiency you can. Just the basic water heater. It will probably still be more efficient than your old one, due to less sediment buildup - and has fewer parts that can break. I'll take the word of the guy who makes his living replacing them - simple is better if you want one that will last.
Let your neighbor worry about the environment.
Kiwifan
08-18-13, 11:20 PM
If I were rich instead of beautiful, I'd go that way. :D
In a storage twist I was just looking at your beautiful self not 10 minutes prior to reading this. ( Good old iphone photos) We GOTTA try and get to your neck of the woods for a coffee and chat.
Good luck with the heater Gal.
Rusty.
TravelGal
08-19-13, 02:08 AM
When I needed a new water heater, I consulted this thread: http://offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?13342-Tankless-Water-Heat-Yay-or-Nay and talked to my plumber, Larry. (How can you not trust a plumber named Larry?)
His suggestion was a professional grade Rheem. He said that the Home Depot ones come with a 6 year warranty - and leak after 5 years. You get a new water heater for free, but still have to pay to have the new one installed. Go with pro-quality.
He also suggested getting the lowest efficiency you can. Just the basic water heater. It will probably still be more efficient than your old one, due to less sediment buildup - and has fewer parts that can break. I'll take the word of the guy who makes his living replacing them - simple is better if you want one that will last.
Let your neighbor worry about the environment.
JoeBob, I checked that thread but tankless doesn't work in this house for a variety of reasons. I'm very happy to read your recommendation from Larry the Plumber because that is exactly what we wound up with. El Cheap-o, installed it. It didn't work. They forgot (didn't know there was a separate switch) to turn it on so they had to come back the next day. That yielded hot water at last with silent running. Alas, the leak is silent also so they are returning again Monday to fix a connection above the pump. These are installation problems not heater issues but we sure wish we'd gone with El Great-o. Somehow I think we'd have had a fully functioning system right away.
In a storage twist I was just looking at your beautiful self not 10 minutes prior to reading this. ( Good old iphone photos) We GOTTA try and get to your neck of the woods for a coffee and chat.
Good luck with the heater Gal.
Rusty.
Thanks, Rusty. Love to get together again. (How about a tour of Panama?) We keep talking about coming to your side of the ditch but you keep having earthquakes. We have them right here so no need fly 14 hours for one. :gomer:
Kiwifan
08-19-13, 03:30 AM
Ha ha, stupid iPhone, I "thought" I wrote strange but "storage" could work, I guess. :D
I was VERY jealous of that last tour you did through Yellowstone etc. wow! Stunning.
Back on topic, we put a high end Rheem in and it has been faultless other than us not realising that when the snow came and covered the outlet it got cold and froze then leaked..... A cheap homemade box around the outlet and Bingo!, no more frozen pipe. Simple really. :) Picking you won't have that problem.
Good luck with the Fix.
@G - no, like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostatic_mixing_valve
My set up looks like similar to this. Running the HWH on a higher temp on newer well insulated unit is supposed to be more efficient that getting a larger HWH.
521
If the guy who installed that water heater was licensed it should be pulled.
Why put in a thermostatic valve? Are your tub/shower faucets that old? Any single lever tub/shower faucet made in the last 10 years has thermostatic protection built in. There is no need for one above the water heater, unless you like weak water pressure. Cuz that's all it's doin'.
Ha ha, stupid iPhone, I "thought" I wrote strange but "storage" could work, I guess. :D
I had to go back and re-read that.. :laugh::D
If the guy who installed that water heater was licensed it should be pulled.
Why put in a thermostatic valve? Are your tub/shower faucets that old? Any single lever tub/shower faucet made in the last 10 years has thermostatic protection built in. There is no need for one above the water heater, unless you like weak water pressure. Cuz that's all it's doin'.
That was just a photo I pulled off the net.
I was told that valve was a more cost effective way to run the water heater (versus getting a larger unit) - not being used for the thermostatic protection. Run a smaller heater at a higher temperature is an equivalent volume f a larger heater at a "normal temperature" or something like that.
TravelGal
08-19-13, 11:53 AM
The leak is above the circulating pump. It's an extra bit of machinery that keeps the water circulating at all times throughout the plumbing so we have hot water as soon as we turn on the tap. No wasted water. We only turn the pump on for showers or in the evening when we're doing things in the kitchen. No wasted electricity or water or gas. (Current month's gas bill for water heater and cooking is $18.) But yeah, I'm agreeing about pulling this guy's license. HE is good but the guys he sent :thumbdown:
So this weekend I find myself tinkering in the basement, and for some reason the HWH catches my eye. I have a natural gas unit with a power vent. Unit was installed new in 2008. Just about 2 years ago, the blower assembly crapped out. I had just the blower replaced (and the infamous mixing valve added.) All is good in the world.
So this is what I see on Sunday:
http://i40.tinypic.com/140byq9.jpg
The plastic in the "cooked" area is brittle enough I could put my finger through it. I didn't because I don't want to die from CO poisoning.
I text the photo to my service guy and he is understandably alarmed. Next day he is making phone calls to the mfg. They agree to replace the blower under warranty. He pushes them as to the cause of the problem - not just the replacement of the parts. They mention a restrictor plate atop the unit - just like a NASCAR plate - but this one limits flue gases. Could be corroded, so he asks for a replacement. 10 minutes of the parts folks tracking down a number but no luck - it is a discontinued part.
More back and forth - they finally agree to replace the entire HWH free of charge. I will eat the service call - but all things considered, I am good. I am replacing a 5+YO unit with a new one at no cost AND my family did not die from CO. :saywhat::rolleyes:
Tifosi24
09-18-13, 11:10 AM
It's always a good day when the family doesn't die from CO poisoning. My wife and her entire family (and me too if it were on the weekend) were a small layer of rust away from certain CO death a few months from our wedding before the furnace was replaced. No death is a good thing.
Andrew Longman
09-18-13, 11:31 AM
Elmo you of all people has a CO detector, right?;)
Good thing though you happened to see it. How many of us go forever without a reason to look at the equipment in our house? We have what my wife calls the "engine room" in the bowels of our house where the furnace and water pump and such is. I might have reason to go in there once or twice a year.
Elmo you of all people has a CO detector, right?;)
Yes - but I don't want to use it in anger. ;)
Another nail in my coffin - the wife like to have equipment inspected and serviced annually: HVAC, HWH, humidifier, water softner, follows all vehicle maintenance schedules. I typically wait until it is broken. :shakehead:
No death is a good thing.
Our motto around here is "Every day you aren't breaking news on CNN is a good one." ;)
Yes - but I don't want to use it in anger. ;)
Another nail in my coffin - the wife like to have equipment inspected and serviced annually: HVAC, HWH, humidifier, water softner, follows all vehicle maintenance schedules. I typically wait until it is broken. :shakehead:
Sounds like you married Hank Hill. Kudos to the missus. :thumbup:
http://s21.postimg.org/um91zt7fr/hqdefault.jpg
Elmo you of all people has a CO detector, right?;)
Good thing though you happened to see it. How many of us go forever without a reason to look at the equipment in our house? We have what my wife calls the "engine room" in the bowels of our house where the furnace and water pump and such is. I might have reason to go in there once or twice a year.
What's a Colorado detector? :gomer:
Sounds like you married Hank Hill. Kudos to the missus. :thumbup:
Nerds marrying nerds == more nerds. :gomer:
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