View Full Version : Houston Futility
SurfaceUnits
10-04-13, 03:45 PM
Jenna Fryer
RHR just went kinda airborn over one of those chicane/curb things at pit out and hit the wall. This track is like an obstacle course.
Newgarden just moved the chicane. Then Helio had a little contact with the relocated chicane.
SurfaceUnits
10-04-13, 03:46 PM
Temporary chicane in straightaway to get track time today. More permanent fix will be looked at tonight. #IndyCar
Qualifying Postponed?
No #IndyCar qualifying today.
SurfaceUnits
10-04-13, 03:48 PM
Well, no grinding has begun Any official word on anticipated length of delay?
SurfaceUnits
10-04-13, 03:49 PM
There was a 10:30 to noon local #IndyCar practice scheduled. It was only scheduled practice of day.
All track activity delayed in Houston because of a bump in the track. Things are off to a rousing start. #IndyCar
They fixered it.
https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBgtaHR0cDovL3N0YXRpYy5vdy5seS9waG90b3 Mvb3JpZ2luYWwvM2tIVUIuanBnFMAHFNAFABYAEgA&s=8CcA3ORqTyHfF1_CMKcM0SGxJ5AH4SecJeCd0grwxj4
SurfaceUnits
10-04-13, 06:29 PM
30-minute qualifying sessions on each race day. #IndyCar
Could be the wave of the future.
:shakehead:
Is that a "signature chicane"?
SurfaceUnits
10-04-13, 07:48 PM
Derrick Walker isn't in town yet.
Seriously, how does this happen? :rolleyes:
Does anyone do a track inspection in the weeks prior? Do they hope for the best and then wait for the driver's to complain about it?
Apparently they had 96 hours to throw the track together after the Texans game last Sunday. #Futility
Wellll....guess what. Simona is 2nd with 12 to go and has made some GREAT passes to get there! She is SO good on these tight(er) layouts (like St. Pt.) Too many bumps, not at night (next year) but the track is NOT that bad for a street circuit. Go Simona. And Luca Phillipi?... What a find! Guy is GOOD! Wilson 3rd right ON Simona. Great racing...ruined with a yellow at the end but WAY TO GO Simona! She's all of 25 now and looking GOOD! Sure, I had a "couple" of barley pops during the race...but I liked it! (except for that Ganassi thing.):)
SurfaceUnits
10-06-13, 02:32 AM
Not a good start. Hinch has been hit by Carpenter.
Carpenter: "One of the cars I was following dodged to one side and I tried to dodge to the inside but I clipped Hinch’s car.
SurfaceUnits
10-06-13, 12:18 PM
Jenna Fryer
#IndyCar qualifying canceled for race 2. Field set by entrant points. Dixon on pole, Helio starting 2nd. (Dixon does not get 1 bonus point)
TKGAngel
10-06-13, 12:46 PM
Jenna Fryer
#IndyCar qualifying canceled for race 2. Field set by entrant points. Dixon on pole, Helio starting 2nd. (Dixon does not get 1 bonus point)
Or not, as it was reversed an hour later to put Helio on the pole and Dixon second due to points entering the event. Apparently Houston is one event but two races or some such malarkey.
I swear, Yakety Sax just needs to be on an endless loop when it comes to Indycar.
SurfaceUnits
10-06-13, 12:49 PM
Indefinite weather hold in Houston, where the Daytona heat and humidity has been replaced by the Chicago wind and rain.
OK, so they run in the rain on ovals but not on strret courses
SurfaceUnits
10-06-13, 02:10 PM
Jenna Fryer
Sato has a problem. Aborted start.
good grief. What a trainwreck with the stand still starts.
Standings starts are hilarious.
It worked this time!
Drive thru for Marco for jumping the start. Sounds about right.
Standing starts are hilarious with amateurs. F1 doesn’t seem to have near the problems as Indy Car.
TKGAngel
10-06-13, 03:40 PM
Holy [bleep], Dario had a horrific crash on the final lap. Hope he's ok. Hope the fans nearby are ok; they showed a section of the fence break off and land in front of the grandstands.
Is it just me...or has it taken a RIDICULOUSLY long time before Doc T. and an ambulance arrived at Dario's wreck!? He was taking his gloves off but still in the car. Yes, it was a flying fence-ripper...pretty ugly. Dario is now on a stretcher...hoping for the best.
Chip rode his little scooter out to the wreck, talked to Dario...says he has a sore ankle and a sore back, getting a ride to the hospital, but..."He's ok." Good!
So much for that "safety rear bumper" idea...Dario rode into, through, up and over it...into the fence! Was SO lucky he sort of pancaked along it instead of...well, YOU know. I think you will agree it was a close thing. Still upset at the (lack of) response time...unless they all called in and said there was no need to hurry. (?)
SurfaceUnits
10-06-13, 05:11 PM
IndyCar says 1 series official taken to local hospital to be treated for minor injuries. IndyCar not able to comment on fans.
The Houston Fire Department told KTRK-TV in Houston that at least 13 fans were injured in the crash. Most are being treated at the scene, but at least two people were transported to the hospital, according to KTRK-TV.
550
Well.... that sucks.
Chip rode his little scooter out to the wreck, talked to Dario...says he has a sore ankle and a sore back, getting a ride to the hospital, but..."He's ok." Good!
The usual IRL BS. Reports are now that he has two broken vertebrae.
Ed_Severson
10-06-13, 07:16 PM
Seemed to me that it took a bloody long time before they got to Dario. Glad to hear that he's awake and, all things considered, will be alright. At this point, I have to wonder if he might be done for good.
Also happy too see Viso and Sato walk away from that one, and hopefully the fans recover quickly as well.
Quite an eventful weekend.
SurfaceUnits
10-06-13, 08:38 PM
OK, 11 fans treated on site, 2 taken to hospital. Dario and 1 #IndyCar official taken to hospital.
EXCLUSIVE: Local 2 viewer video of Grand Prix of Houston crash (http://m.click2houston.com/news/local-2-viewer-video-of-grand-prix-of-houston-crash/-/16714936/22306500/-/n5p35lz/-/index.html) :saywhat::thumbdown:
Rogue Leader
10-07-13, 12:28 AM
EXCLUSIVE: Local 2 viewer video of Grand Prix of Houston crash (http://m.click2houston.com/news/local-2-viewer-video-of-grand-prix-of-houston-crash/-/16714936/22306500/-/n5p35lz/-/index.html) :saywhat::thumbdown:
Holy **** that was terrifying.....
Good job on those rear fairings Indycar.... :shakehead:
OMG! That was a missile headed straight for those people. Glad no one got dead. :thumbup:
TravelGal
10-07-13, 01:58 AM
EXCLUSIVE: Local 2 viewer video of Grand Prix of Houston crash (http://m.click2houston.com/news/local-2-viewer-video-of-grand-prix-of-houston-crash/-/16714936/22306500/-/n5p35lz/-/index.html) :saywhat::thumbdown:
:eek::eek: I really dislike Sato but that angle proves that what he said in the post-race interview was correct. Marbles, a little shake, lost it. I thought he was careless and moved over on Dario. Still, he's involved in too many of these things.
2_5dW_PWWd0
oZ5HXja5T8A#t=10
I didn’t like the way they were announcing that Dario was OK just because he was conscious and moving around. It appears he has some serious injuries.
I didn’t like the way they were announcing that Dario was OK just because he was conscious and moving around. It appears he has some serious injuries.
Sadly, and this isn't a joke, so many massive shunts in the IRL with critical injuries and deaths - they've come to see this as OK. "Look! He is not dead or unconscious..." is a positive. :shakehead:
Holy **** that was terrifying.....
That footage from the spectator gives a far better indication of the speed at impact.
I remember when Davey Hamilton had his feet destroyed in Texas. The car came to a stop, you could see his legs dangling out of the footbox, completely exposed. He threw the steering wheel because he was in excruciating pain.
The announcer (Jenkins, I think) declared "He's removed the steering wheel. He's okay!"
If notice, their press release said that his spine fractures didn't need surgery. They mentioned nothing of the sort about his ankle.
That footage from the spectator gives a far better indication of the speed at impact.
The footage reminds me of sitting in T4 @ the original US 500 when Herta was 'Vasserized' and watching carbon bits, etc. fly over my head.
And on Dario:
http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/9782267/dario-franchitti-fans-injured-scary-wreck-grand-prix-houston
TravelGal
10-07-13, 12:00 PM
The footage reminds me of sitting in T4 @ the original US 500 when Herta was 'Vasserized' and watching carbon bits, etc. fly over my head.
And on Dario:
http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/9782267/dario-franchitti-fans-injured-scary-wreck-grand-prix-houston
"The final two laps were run under caution, " On my tape of the race, the final one half of a lap was run under caution. Or are they talking about the cars that were one or two laps down? Or do they really not know S from shinola?
Tweet from local TV station:
Just checked w/ Memorial Hermann. Driver @dariofranchitti is still at the hospital recovering in "fair" condition, according to hospital.
Didn't watch or attend but I did notice plenty of attention yesterday and today from CNN. Not sure it is the kind of attention they want.
TKGAngel
10-07-13, 12:20 PM
Didn't watch or attend but I did notice plenty of attention yesterday and today from CNN. Not sure it is the kind of attention they want.
There's also a lot of attention because of who Dario's (ex/almost ex) wife is, too. I'm seeing stories on the entertainment news sites about the wreck and how she's rushing to his bedside.
What bothered me is that the cars had to come through the entire accident scene and debris field on their cool down lap. Was there no place before the wreck that they could exit them off safely or perhaps stop them and go back later and fetch the cars once things calmed down?
The footage reminds me of sitting in T4 @ the original US 500 when Herta was 'Vasserized' and watching carbon bits, etc. fly over my head.
And on Dario:
http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/9782267/dario-franchitti-fans-injured-scary-wreck-grand-prix-houston
Comments section:
Ashley, it has been reported, is going with the clothes on her back and the dogs to be by her ex's side. All is well with the world.
Good grief, Ashley, hasn't Dario suffered enough ??
:rofl::laugh:
cameraman
10-07-13, 12:46 PM
There's also a lot of attention because of who Dario's (ex/almost ex) wife is, too. I'm seeing stories on the entertainment news sites about the wreck and how she's rushing to his bedside.
What bothered me is that the cars had to come through the entire accident scene and debris field on their cool down lap. Was there no place before the wreck that they could exit them off safely or perhaps stop them and go back later and fetch the cars once things calmed down?
That isn't uncommon.
So much for that "safety rear bumper" idea...Dario rode into, through, up and over it...into the fence! Was SO lucky he sort of pancaked along it instead of...well, YOU know. I think you will agree it was a close thing.
Very close. Sato's rear bumper became an off ramp leading straight into the fence.
Is this the first trip to the grater for the new Dallara?
TravelGal
10-07-13, 03:32 PM
Is this the first trip to the grater for the new Dallara?
I thought so. I even commented to TravelGuy that I hadn't seen anything fly like that in a long time.
Couple of items from the excellent thread at smackedforum:
http://www.smackedforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1378&start=100
Picture just before impact. Never a good thing when the race car is pointed at you.
http://i42.tinypic.com/xylxh.jpg
Also, there were two flying incidents in 2012. The first was a slower speed incident at Long Beach between Andretti Jr and Rahal Jr.
http://i44.tinypic.com/htfjio.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWCRCP6GO44
The second was at the Indy 500. Mike Conway and Will Power had a close encounter with the grater.
http://i44.tinypic.com/30c9cwm.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2RR1_uts9Y
Wheel-Nut
10-07-13, 04:43 PM
Couple of items from the excellent thread at smackedforum:
http://www.smackedforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1378&start=100
Picture just before impact. Never a good thing when the race car is pointed at you.
http://i42.tinypic.com/xylxh.jpg
I went to the 2006 and 2007 race when Champ Cars were running there. I remember sitting in that grandstand watching the cars during practice; I thought to myself, this is not a good spot to be sitting during a crash.
Also, did anyone notice the tire get punted up and over the fence?
Andrew Longman
10-07-13, 05:11 PM
Read in USA Today today quotes from several drivers about needing to do something about fencing. The article didn't make much of a distinction between ovals and road courses and street course but looking at the Houston fencing that is no where near as strong and safe on permanent ovals. The general thinking I suppose is that the cars are running much slower on street courses but the cars were doing 180 on that part of the track.
I would not be shocked if the series is either forced to make street races slower (which defeats the purpose of racing), or not put seating near that fastest parts of the track (which does nothing for driver safety and defeats on of the reasons specators go), put up proper fencing (which is cost prohibitive with these events which are financiallu risky as it is), or just stop doing street racing (which is almost fully happening by itself)
I actually like a good street race if it is a proper layout. Most aren't. Some are. But I wouldn't be shocked if this is (nearly) the last nail in the coffin.
TravelGal
10-07-13, 06:25 PM
Oh, pshaw. That Long Beach one was just a little frisbee thingy. I had forgotten about the Mindy one, however.
Thanks for the Smack link. I haven't visited in ages. Funny thing from Rex: THIS is Hulman-George Racing!!!!! Catch the fever!!! And the fence!!! :tony:
DagoFast
10-07-13, 06:36 PM
Where were the additional steel safety cables running through the fencing to tie all the sections together? There should be 3 rows of them run horizontally along the fences, one near the bottom, one near the top and one in the center. Just the wire fencing alone is incapable of stopping a car/engine/gearbox from penetrating it. When ChampCar raced at this very same temporary venue, those cables were present. Why were they not installed this time? It almost seems incredulous that they are NOT there. It is a standard and accepted practice to do so. Was somebody trying to save money? Or time? Who and why someone decided to ignore 20+ years of accepted practice and stage the race this way is a question that needs to be answered.
cameraman
10-07-13, 06:56 PM
They had 4 days to assemble the track. They cut corners.
http://tinyurl.com/kmgrgyz
I'm glad everyone is okay, but I don't feel bad for the .irl.
Mary
Rogue Leader
10-07-13, 07:57 PM
http://tinyurl.com/kmgrgyz
I'm glad everyone is okay, but I don't feel bad for the .irl.
Mary
That article just about sums it all up. And I actually like watching IndyCar, but they sure do make it hard to be a fan.
Andrew Longman
10-07-13, 08:04 PM
http://tinyurl.com/kmgrgyz
I'm glad everyone is okay, but I don't feel bad for the .irl.
MaryOuch.
That is a pretty learned and informed commentary from the local press in a market where Indycar isn't ecaxtly top of mind or even 1% top of mind compared to UT/A&M/Texans/High School football and Ted Cruz.
Ouch.
That is a pretty learned and informed commentary from the local press in a market where Indycar isn't ecaxtly top of mind or even 1% top of mind compared to UT/A&M/Texans/High School football and Ted Cruz.
AP story by Jenna Fryer. No local outlet has the resources or reader interest for covering Indycar.
Apparently the fencing is a cheap imitation of the good stuff. Somebody from the good stuff company (D3) makes a point to post in the fans injured thread at TF that the Houston catch fencing wasn't their stuff nor up to snuff.
http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?180741-Crowd-injuries-from-crash-at-Houston-Prayers&p=3446597&viewfull=1#post3446597
The D3 fencing doesn't have cables either. Here's pictures of it in San Jose, with real race cars:
http://www.d3motorsport.com/#!untitled/c1u5w
Andrew Longman
10-08-13, 10:06 AM
AP story by Jenna Fryer. No local outlet has the resources or reader interest for covering Indycar.OK AP. My point is the same. :gomer:
Andrew Longman
10-08-13, 10:08 AM
The D3 fencing doesn't have cables either. Here's pictures of it in San Jose, with real race cars:
http://www.d3motorsport.com/#!untitled/c1u5wI just got dumber. I have been on a TF recovery program for a long time and I just remembered why.
OTOH I saw Rush on Sunday and remembered why I became a race fan in the first place.
Wheel-Nut
10-08-13, 10:41 AM
When ChampCar raced at this very same temporary venue, those cables were present.
Negative Ghostrider.
This was the Champ Car race in 2006, same turn 5.
Again from the excellent thread at smackedforum:
http://www.smackedforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1378&start=100#p30595
It gets real at the 1:40 mark. Props to the guy for covering his girl, and HOLY ****! look where the fence landed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYJ47bC2lGg
Also, although D3 makes catch fencing without cables, D3 says they didn't make the fencing used at Houston and called it an "inferior product". I haven't seen a company press release, just the post on trackforum.
http://www.smackedforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1378&start=125#p30626
No way the IRL cut corners on safety, right? :shakehead:
Hmmmm...same fencing, but IRL DW12 crapwagons (ick) were used with all the gigante front wing, cow-catching sidepod doo-hickeys and bumpers. Maybe the fence isn't the problem after all. :confused:
If the claim that the fence was made with "inferior steel quality and size" is true, the fence could look the same but behave very differently.
Size, for example, could refer to the thickness of the steel pipe walls. From the outside, a schedule 40 pipe and a schedule 80 pipe have the same outside diameter and appear the same. However, the schedule 80 pipe takes more force to bend because the pipe wall is thicker.
Same for steel quality. Steel that bends at 36,000 psi (A36) looks the same as steel that bends at 50,000 psi (A572), but it's much weaker.
My hope is the angle and speed of the impact was so large that it exceeded all design expectations and that no fence would have stood up to it. My fear is that someone knowingly provided substandard safety barriers because it was cheaper. That will kill auto racing, DEAD.
SurfaceUnits
10-08-13, 02:32 PM
JF the latest one being accused oif tryna destroy the IRL
Jenna Fryer @JennaFryer
But as soon as you call amateur hour "Amateur Hour," well, you must be a #NASCAR mole hell bent on destroying #IndyCar. Got it. Carry on.
SurfaceUnits
10-08-13, 03:04 PM
You know your event was a success when they have the local fire department commenting on it
TravelGal
10-09-13, 12:47 PM
If the claim that the fence was made with "inferior steel quality and size" is true, the fence could look the same but behave very differently.
Size, for example, could refer to the thickness of the steel pipe walls. From the outside, a schedule 40 pipe and a schedule 80 pipe have the same outside diameter and appear the same. However, the schedule 80 pipe takes more force to bend because the pipe wall is thicker.
Same for steel quality. Steel that bends at 36,000 psi (A36) looks the same as steel that bends at 50,000 psi (A572), but it's much weaker.
My hope is the angle and speed of the impact was so large that it exceeded all design expectations and that no fence would have stood up to it. My fear is that someone knowingly provided substandard safety barriers because it was cheaper. That will kill auto racing, DEAD.
Gnam's last paragraph is what has crossed my mind. First of all, JoeBob is right. All the extra cr@p on the crapwagons certainly can't help. Mostly, this reminds me of the hand wringing about building structures that will withstand a Category 5 hurricane or an 8.0 earthquake. Man proposes, God laughs. And I'm sure D3 is thanking their lucky stars it wasn't their fence, so we don't have to know whether it would have held up or not.
SurfaceUnits
10-09-13, 12:59 PM
I thought both races were very entertaining other than the concussion that Dario suffered, his broken ankle and his two freacture vertabrae. Hopefully the fans that were injured are OK too. Will two weeks be enough time for Dario to be ready to drive in Fontana?
Oh by the way, it turns out that Dario also broke a couple of ribs in the shunt: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/motor/indycar/2013/10/07/dario-franchitti-indycar-accident-crash-injured-surgery/2937343/
The team put a picture of him up on Twitter (with a bunch of text covering a bunch of hardware on his foot): https://twitter.com/TCGRTeams/status/388379423696633856/photo/1
They haven't mentioned the bandages on his wrist yet. Give it another few days...
Wheel-Nut
10-11-13, 10:42 AM
They haven't mentioned the bandages on his wrist yet. Give it another few days...
That looks like tape to keep his IV connection in place.
If it were broke I doubt he would be using a walker.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e196/bernie_eccle/201310%20IndyCar%20Grand%20Prix%20of%20Houston/SMC_1562_zpsaa742438.jpg
Hey look...
Chitowncartfreak
10-15-13, 04:44 PM
From Road and Track...
http://www.roadandtrack.com/voices/columnists/marshall-pruett/paddock-pundit-column-franchitti-crash-makes-safety-a-hot-topic-in-indycar?click=main_sr
Middle fence posts not installed at Houston.
SurfaceUnits
10-16-13, 12:13 AM
Dario Franchitti undergoes further ankle surgery after IndyCar crash
Dario Franchitti underwent further surgery on his injured right ankle on Monday
From Road and Track...
http://www.roadandtrack.com/voices/columnists/marshall-pruett/paddock-pundit-column-franchitti-crash-makes-safety-a-hot-topic-in-indycar?click=main_sr
Middle fence posts not installed at Houston.
Bottom row.
(Prepare yourself for watermarks.)
http://www.latphoto.co.uk/collections/26385/photos?page=5
From Road and Track...
http://www.roadandtrack.com/voices/columnists/marshall-pruett/paddock-pundit-column-franchitti-crash-makes-safety-a-hot-topic-in-indycar?click=main_sr
Middle fence posts not installed at Houston.
Cheese and crackers. :shakehead:
33% weaker is just a number.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e196/bernie_eccle/201310%20IndyCar%20Grand%20Prix%20of%20Houston/SMC_1562_zpsaa742438.jpg
Hey look...
Follow the 'P' down to the top of the wall and you can see the hole where the "3rd pole" should have been.
Chitowncartfreak
10-16-13, 11:51 AM
Follow the 'P' down to the top of the wall and you can see the hole where the "3rd pole" should have been.
Yes, indeed - and you can see the hole in the mesh right above that where the pole would normally be routed.
Wheel-Nut
10-16-13, 12:23 PM
I wonder how more severe Dario's injuries could have been if those poles had been installed?
I wonder how more severe Dario's injuries could have been if those poles had been installed?
I would argue his injuries would have been the same. That DW12 is rigid, it doesn't disintegrate like cars of old to dissipate energy. The only benefit to having the poles there is to keep the car out of the crowd and hopefully keep the fence and poles from flying into the grandstands. Both were defeated. And, because the bulkhead and foot structures are longer and stout they didn't shear off, and transferred energy to the driver.
Anytime one of these crapwagons gets in the fence like that there are serious injuries...unavoidable, poles or not.
Andrew Longman
10-16-13, 01:38 PM
FWIW looking at the pic above from the Champcar race in Houston the poles were missing then too. Not sure what to make of this missing pole thing. Even if the third poles were there I am not sue it would have held up to that sort of impact. More than anything if you are going to have a street race with a 180 mph corner perhaps you need the sort of fencing and cabling used on an oval track -- or don't have high speed corners.
I thought the photo above was from the Indycar Houston race and the Champ Car sticker was just an artifact.
*edit: Nevermind. I see the posts were missing from the Champ Car race too.
OK - the prevention officer and investigator in me is asking - WHAT exactly is the problem and is it preventable?
Is the problem the fence design or the poor install? Is the fence's primary purpose to protect the driver or the spectators?
Is the REAL problem the fence or the cars?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZV-_dcaFos
Was the difference the fence, the car, or the lack of spectators in that spot?? Granted she hit the wall first, but quickly into the fence.
:confused:
Wheel-Nut
10-16-13, 02:29 PM
Does anyone know what the real speeds are in that curve at Houston?
Wheel-Nut
10-16-13, 02:53 PM
FWIW
1999 Houston GP Center poles installed.
Ed_Severson
10-16-13, 03:30 PM
Does anyone know what the real speeds are in that curve at Houston?
Yes, somebody does, and it's not 180 mph, FFS. At that point, he'd have been at about 140. Maximum speed over the whole lap would be about 165 at the end of that straight, on push to pass and with a tow.
Wheel-Nut
10-16-13, 04:18 PM
Yes, somebody does, and it's not 180 mph, FFS. At that point, he'd have been at about 140. Maximum speed over the whole lap would be about 165 at the end of that straight, on push to pass and with a tow.
I knew it was not 180 mph. I was guessing maybe around 160.
Latest update on Dario's condition: http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/dario-franchitti-s-memory-problems-after-gp-crash-1-3745412
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