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Your list doesn't include Klingler, Dave. :saywhat: Of course that was in the Shula the Lesser era. :irked: Anyway, here's the official list of Clowns QBs since 1999. Johnny Midget isn't included, so that makes 21 QBs since 1999.
http://returnofcleveland.com/2014/01/14/ranking-the-20-cleveland-browns-starting-quarterbacks-since-1999/
Still smiling, Don Q. Still smiling...
:D :p
Don Quixote
12-16-14, 01:32 PM
Donkey fans should say a prayer of thanks to Josh McDaniel for having the foresight to quickly dump Cutler. I heard on the radio this morning that he has 17 interceptions and 7 fumbles this year!
WickerBill
12-16-14, 06:18 PM
It wasn't foresight. He botched the handling of Cutler, Marshall, and at least a half-dozen more players.
Fortuitous... not foresight.
Donkey fans should say a prayer of thanks to Josh McDaniel for having the foresight to quickly dump Cutler. I heard on the radio this morning that he has 17 interceptions and 7 fumbles this year!
The guys on E$PN Radio were hammering him hard this AM. Said it was time to dump him and eat the $15m still owed to him.
chop456
12-17-14, 02:46 AM
Yes, he's having an awful year. A slough of INTs and fumbles, as mentioned. He's also one TD away from setting the team season record. His stats are still better than any QB this team's had since I've been alive, and that's a while. Completion percentage higher than Rodgers, Brady, Luck and Stafford. YPG higher than Flacco, Romo, Rivers, Dalton and Wilson, while being sacked more than all but 6 other QB.
They suck out loud. They haven't been scoring like last year and the defense is even worse. They're 26th in rushing with Matt Forte? The coaching staff is utterly inept and will likely all be fired down to the ball boy (who sucks, too).
No way they get rid of him and eat that contract. Who replaces him that's going to be better? I guess people are longing for the heady days of Cade McNown, Sexy Rexy, Shane Matthews, Moses Moreno, Kordell Stewart, Chris Chandler, Mike Tomczak or P.T. Willis. :gomer:
The more the media hates him, the more I like him. :D
Andrew Longman
12-17-14, 07:45 AM
Yes, but I've always thought he was high on a list of many QBs who put up big numbers, but they are garbage numbers. The key is to put up complete drives that produce scores. More so, it is important to play situationally and produce the play when it is needed. That's the difference between mopes like Cutler, Jeff George, et al and Brady, the Mannings, Steve Young, Rogers.
chop456
12-17-14, 08:23 AM
Agree completely. The people whining to dump him aren't people that lived through the last 30 years here. It's frying pan/fire. Present a viable option, then whine.
Whine about Shea McClellin. :laugh:
49ers fire Ray McDonald after police searched his house yesterday in a sexual assault case.
The team finally had enough drama.
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_27154639/san-jose-police-investigating-49er-ray-mcdonald-after
I'm curious to see if anyone else gets fired before the last game.
49ers fire Ray McDonald after police searched his house yesterday in a sexual assault case.
The team finally had enough drama.
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_27154639/san-jose-police-investigating-49er-ray-mcdonald-after
I'm curious to see if anyone else gets fired before the last game.
Trestman is next likely candidate. I saw a linky on FB earlier today. I don't think Harbaugh will be canned. Sounds like the 9ers want to move him ala Gruden. Talk on Mike & Mike and The Herd that TTUN is targeting him. Other names mentioned were $EC coaches and Stoops from Okie, but that ain't gonna happen. Schiano's name has also come up, but it sounds like he burnt bridges while @ Tampa Bay. Pelini landed at Youngstown State today, and immediately blasted Rig Red N. Dude has got to learn to just shut up. That move is also interesting since Tressel is the Pez @ YSU. Not sure if Pelini was at tOSU while Tress was an assistant there in the 80s.
EDIT: and Sexy Rexy is a dead man walking. Can't see any chance for him to survive.
Cutler out, Clausen in for da Bears this weekend.
WickerBill
12-17-14, 09:14 PM
Need a dando acronym decoder just to read this thread
Need a dando acronym decoder just to read this thread
WB, nrc has the decoder ring... ;)
In other news, Scheftie reporting that Harbaugh considering UM offer for 6 years/$49m. :eek:
Andrew Longman
12-17-14, 10:21 PM
I've thought Rex would be fired the last two years. He should have been. But they need to clean out management too... And find a QB.
I have no clue how Jet fans stay Jet fans. Theyve been so abused since the Richard Todd era.
I've thought Rex would be fired the last two years. He should have been. But they need to clean out management too... And find a QB.
I have no clue how Jet fans stay Jet fans. Theyve been so abused since the Richard Todd era.
That's because ownership and management is just as clueless. How do Clowns fans remain loyal? Look at the list of 21 QBs they've started since 1999 that I posted. And Johnny Football is not the answer. His mechanics last Sunday made Tebow look good. He didn't set his feet, slinged passes sidearm, most throws were high, the INT he threw into the endzone he has falling back and lofted a pass late over the middle. It was painful to watch even for a BenGals fan...vivid memories of Klingler and Akili. Just look at the last two drafts...wasted #1 picks on T.Rich and Manziel in back-to-back drafts. This AM they were discussing Manziel, and Jaws said Bengals DC Guenther called a man-to-man D for the first play of the game and immediately switched to a zone for the rest of the games, and the Bengals had a field day jumping routes.
Don Quixote
12-18-14, 09:30 AM
The Bears are paying their backup QB $15 million? :D
The Bears are paying their backup QB $15 million? :D
No it's worse than that. It's like $25m. I had no idea the Bears signed for an extension like that. :eek: :saywhat: It was Cutler season again this AM. Mike & Mike and co. were trying to trade him anywhere, but couldn't figure out a taker. Stink even mentioned bringing Shanny to coach him once Trestman is gone. Wow. Oh and Billick ate Johnny Football alive. :D
Don Quixote
12-18-14, 11:16 AM
Shanahan might be a good fit for the Bears. I think he drafted both Cutler and Marshall.
Shanahan might be a good fit for the Bears. I think he drafted both Cutler and Marshall.
Yup. He also traded up get draft him in 2006. Cutler replaced 'Jake the Snake' in 2006 after 11 games, a season following Plummer directing the Nags to the AFC Championship. The rest is history...Shanny fired, McDaniels took over, screwed the pooch handling both Cutler and Marshall. Both ended up being traded to da Bears (McDaniel wanted Cassel). Can't blame Cutler solely for this mess...da Bears are a mess. He was sacked 7 times Monday night.
Since 1993, starting quarterbacks
http://i.imgur.com/vO0gNvO.jpg
Insomniac
12-19-14, 02:24 PM
Cutler out, Clausen in for da Bears this weekend.
1 garbage time TD too late. :flaming:
Insomniac
12-19-14, 02:25 PM
49ers fire Ray McDonald after police searched his house yesterday in a sexual assault case.
The team finally had enough drama.
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_27154639/san-jose-police-investigating-49er-ray-mcdonald-after
I'm curious to see if anyone else gets fired before the last game.
As PFT pointed out, too much drama for someone with his skills. Aldon Smith is allowed more drama.
Craptastic....BenGals/Stealers flexed to next Sunday night for the AFC North Championship Game. Yet another chance for Andy to prove his Andyness. :saywhat:
Wow. I expected a turd to be laid, but by #14 and not #18. Manning might be done. Lots of talk last week on E$PN about what's wrong with Peyton (in between Cutler bashing).
Andrew Longman
12-23-14, 01:42 AM
First half was a mystery. Dink passes and the defense seemed to know the play before the snap. Third quarter speaks for itself. Dude can still toss the ball in remarkable ways into tiny spaces, though I thought he was late on a few throws. Keep in mind is was pouring rain and Payton has never been great when conditions weren't perfect.
Watching Mike & Mike now. Peyton had a QBR of 0 in the 4th quarter last night. :eek: He joins an illustrious list including Newton, Cassel, JT O'Sullivan, and Leftwich over the last 9 seasons.
Insomniac
12-23-14, 12:11 PM
I would not be surprised if Manning retired following the season. Even more likely if Denver wins the Super Bowl.
I would not be surprised if Manning retired following the season. Even more likely if Denver wins the Super Bowl.
Never say never, but all roads lead through the evil empire in Beantown. :irked:
Insomniac
12-23-14, 04:21 PM
Never say never, but all roads lead through the evil empire in Beantown. :irked:
Yeah, I'm not penciling the Pats in for Scottsdale. Their offense is a very delicate balance.
Yeah, I'm not penciling the Pats in for Scottsdale. Their offense is a very delicate balance.
I wouldn't place any bets on any team. See my previous posts in this and the pool thread. Raiderz > Bills > Pack, Raiderz > Chiefs > Pats, etc. It's just nuts. There's no team more than one player away from being best to worst. That also made last night even more amazing since AJ Green was 0fer....but then again, no one counted on Peyton being so generous. :confused:
If you build it, they will come....to Santa Clara.
The 49ers' new stadium is open for bidness. Tours available for $25.
Now you can weep on the same field as your beloved teams. http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/7/9/5884475/levis-stadium-tours-prices-hours-49ers
http://s30.postimg.org/nbhtmfpw1/levis_stadium1458_1200xx4256_2394_0_219.jpg
Also, Frank Gore's backup, Kendall Hunter, tore up his knee and is out for the season.
That ain't good. :(
So I'm watching this Foster Farms Bowl being played in Levi Stadium, and they mention the sod has been replaced 5 times since August. WTF? :saywhat:
WickerBill
12-31-14, 07:26 AM
I was in that stadium in early September - they were laying down sod #3 and hadn't played a regular season football game yet.
They tried a strain of grass used in the Rose Bowl that is "strong" and always looks wonderful on TV, but it didn't work in Santa Clara -- after one practice it was coming up in 3 foot wide chunks. So they ripped it out and put in a temporary field for a preseason game, then they ripped that out and (when I was there) put down a more standard strain of grass for the home opener. If you remember that game, the grass looked terrible; something is wrong with the base under the grass there and they can't keep water in the grass.
And here I thought the hippies were good at growing grass... ;)
Field of broken dreams.
Can't grow grass in California. Can't win football games. :shakehead:
Bad times in Billsville...HC Marrone opts out of his contract, Orton retired earlier this week. How you give an opt-out clause in the contract for the HC is beyond me. :saywhat:
TKGAngel
12-31-14, 10:37 PM
Bad times in Billsville...HC Marrone opts out of his contract, Orton retired earlier this week. How you give an opt-out clause in the contract for the HC is beyond me. :saywhat:
Rumor has it that the Jets are interested in Marrone. If the stories about Dougie getting mad about the Buffalo media have even a kernel of truth to them, how on earth will he deal with the NYC press?
Rumor has it that the Jets are interested in Marrone. If the stories about Dougie getting mad about the Buffalo media have even a kernel of truth to them, how on earth will he deal with the NYC press?
The grass is always greener over the septic tank. #ErmaBombeck ;)
Insomniac
01-01-15, 04:38 PM
Bad times in Billsville...HC Marrone opts out of his contract, Orton retired earlier this week. How you give an opt-out clause in the contract for the HC is beyond me. :saywhat:
PFT says it was what was needed to get him to choose them over the Browns. Seems like a reasonable clause for ownership change. I'd think more coaches would try and get it after the Parcells/Belichick/NYJ fiasco.
PFT says it was what was needed to get him to choose them over the Browns. Seems like a reasonable clause for ownership change. I'd think more coaches would try and get it after the Parcells/Belichick/NYJ fiasco.
Yeah, I read that, too. Choice between tallest dwarfs, IMO. Possible ownership change in Buffalo post-Wilson and wacky Haslam in Cleveland. :saywhat: J-E-T-S ain't much better...new GM, no QB solution, and a secondary that needs rebuilding.
Insomniac
01-01-15, 06:20 PM
Yeah, I read that, too. Choice between tallest dwarfs, IMO. Possible ownership change in Buffalo post-Wilson and wacky Haslam in Cleveland. :saywhat: J-E-T-S ain't much better...new GM, no QB solution, and a secondary that needs rebuilding.
Jets have a ton of cap space also. Idzik did at least clean all that up. The odd thing is they speculate him to the Jets, but there's also no GM. Personally, I think the notion that the GM should hire the coach is dumb. If I'm the owner, I'm hiring each (but if one or the other is hired, then they'd be involved in the hiring process).
Jets have a ton of cap space also. Idzik did at least clean all that up. The odd thing is they speculate him to the Jets, but there's also no GM. Personally, I think the notion that the GM should hire the coach is dumb. If I'm the owner, I'm hiring each (but if one or the other is hired, then they'd be involved in the hiring process).
I agree...if you have a competent owner (reference Al Davis for the flip side). However, if the GM and the head coach don't get along...look at SF.
EDIT: Idzik may have cleared cap space, but he pulled a Mike Brown and didn't spend the $$$ on a decent secondary. I heard enough kvetching by Greeny on Mike & Mike about that all season. And they have got to get a decent QB solution.
Insomniac
01-01-15, 10:07 PM
I agree...if you have a competent owner (reference Al Davis for the flip side). However, if the GM and the head coach don't get along...look at SF.
EDIT: Idzik may have cleared cap space, but he pulled a Mike Brown and didn't spend the $$$ on a decent secondary. I heard enough kvetching by Greeny on Mike & Mike about that all season. And they have got to get a decent QB solution.
No doubt there was unspent cap space. It was interesting to hear Johnson tamper with Revis this week. He implied the price NE paid was a price that was lower than the Jets offered or were asked to pay.
But Idzik did draft for Rex's defense/secondary the last 2 years.
1 18 Calvin Pryor FS Louisville
1 9 Dee Milliner CB Alabama
1 13 Sheldon Richardson DE Missouri
Maybe someone who knows SF better can comment on the Baalke/York/Harbaugh triangle. Did Baalke hire Harbaugh?
TKGAngel
01-02-15, 09:59 AM
I'm going to need a flow chart or a powerpoint with some smart art to keep this nonsense straight.
Bill Polian denied that he will be coming to the Bills to play 'football czar' as the hiring of a coach, staff, etc would be too much for a man of his age (72). Russ Brandon (current Bills President) had no clue that Pegula & Co were meeting with Polian. Brandon, even though he claims he's only focusing on the business side, has been in the room for all football-related decisions. Getting cut out of the Polian loop is huge.
Bills players are all upset for a few reasons. Orton never told them outright that he was retiring. They found out from the media during locker clean out day. Marrone sent the team a 'peace out, if you need anything, call me' mass text after the news of his departure had already broken in the media.
WickerBill
01-02-15, 10:19 AM
Not sure you need a flowchart to tell you that Brandon is on his way out. They wanted Polian to take over everything for a couple of years (and would have severed ties with Brandon had Bill said yes)... now they have some awkwardness to deal with.
And I almost feel like Frank Reich is a foregone conclusion for the Bills. I hope he is good, and I hope he does a miracle with Manuel.
Insomniac
01-02-15, 12:49 PM
I'm going to need a flow chart or a powerpoint with some smart art to keep this nonsense straight.
Bill Polian denied that he will be coming to the Bills to play 'football czar' as the hiring of a coach, staff, etc would be too much for a man of his age (72). Russ Brandon (current Bills President) had no clue that Pegula & Co were meeting with Polian. Brandon, even though he claims he's only focusing on the business side, has been in the room for all football-related decisions. Getting cut out of the Polian loop is huge.
Bills players are all upset for a few reasons. Orton never told them outright that he was retiring. They found out from the media during locker clean out day. Marrone sent the team a 'peace out, if you need anything, call me' mass text after the news of his departure had already broken in the media.
I'd just add that everyone knew Polian's denial was nonsense because it was so carefully crafted to merely say he wasn't starting on Monday, he never outright said he wasn't going to go there.
Maybe someone who knows SF better can comment on the Baalke/York/Harbaugh triangle. Did Baalke hire Harbaugh?
Baalke has been with the 49ers since 2005. He was promoted to GM in 2011 prior to Harbaugh being hired and worked with the team's CEO Jed York to recruit Harbaugh from Stanford.
No one has been clear about what led to the falling out, but it seems to have started last summer when Baalke and York would not meet Harbaugh's price to extend his contract. Personally, I blame the York family. They did the same thing to Steve Mariucci in 2002. He went to the playoffs four out of six years, but a disagreement with the owner and the GM led to him being fired. The 49ers wandered the wilderness for the next 8 years until Harbaugh started winning again.
Insomniac
01-02-15, 01:30 PM
Baalke has been with the 49ers since 2005. He was promoted to GM in 2011 prior to Harbaugh being hired and worked with the team's CEO Jed York to recruit Harbaugh from Stanford.
No one has been clear about what led to the falling out, but it seems to have started last summer when Baalke and York would not meet Harbaugh's price to extend his contract. Personally, I blame the York family. They did the same thing to Steve Mariucci in 2002. He went to the playoffs four out of six years, but a disagreement with the owner and the GM led to him being fired. The 49ers wandered the wilderness for the next 8 years until Harbaugh started winning again.
No wonder he went to Michigan. Not sure he'd be able to become the highest paid coach in the NFL w/o a SB win. It is a shame that a dispute over salary went beyond that.
re: Levi...might be time to call in Carl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrcgjMJmvNg
:gomer: ;)
WickerBill
01-10-15, 09:30 PM
I'm so depressed that NE is going to go to the Super Bowl again. I just spent three hours rooting for the Ravens. You don't realize how hard that is.
TravelGal
01-10-15, 10:44 PM
I spent 3 hours looking for the game! TV's in Assisted Living Facilities tend to be tuned to reruns of Carol Burnett. I resorted to PoolHost to see who won. I feel for ya, WB. I'll have to go searching around to read the commentaries to see if it was as close as the score made it seem.
I'm so depressed that NE is going to go to the Super Bowl again. I just spent three hours rooting for the Ravens. You don't realize how hard that is.
So tomorrow instead of playing the Colts and Broncos are having a joint press conference to concede the Conference title?
WickerBill
01-11-15, 07:07 AM
Manning can't win in Foxboro and the Colts just aren't ready. Sorry to be defeatist about my own team, but...
Insomniac
01-11-15, 01:41 PM
And just to get it out of the way, Belicheat and the Cheatriots will cheat their way back to the Super Bowl. :D
Insomniac
01-11-15, 01:43 PM
I'm so depressed that NE is going to go to the Super Bowl again. I just spent three hours rooting for the Ravens. You don't realize how hard that is.
I'm obviously happy with the outcome, but that was an objectively exciting game for everyone.
WickerBill
01-11-15, 08:08 PM
You watching this mess, nrc? Surely you see my POV now.
TravelGal
01-11-15, 08:59 PM
Manning can't win in Foxboro and the Colts just aren't ready. Sorry to be defeatist about my own team, but...
Manning couldn't win in Denver either. The Colts looked as surprised as anyone after the game ended.
You watching this mess, nrc? Surely you see my POV now.
I saw the second half. At least he did better than Andy. :p Unfortunately I think Manning should probably call it a career. He's too vulnerable in the pocket and with his long ball fading the Colts played him just like Andy Dalton without AJ Green.
So how about it, WB? Who's on the same page with Elway on taking them to the next level? I hear on the Bengals forums that there's a bumper crop of Bill Belichicks just waiting to be plucked out of obscurity.
WickerBill
01-14-15, 04:02 PM
Elway doesn't want any rookies, because a rookie coach won't appeal to Franken-neck. Almost all of the re-treads out there are trash:
- Shanahan: wants total control, which Elway won't give up. Also: sucks
- Mike Smith: Is basically a worse version of John Fox
- Kubiak: pledged himself to the thugs; probably the best option
- McDaniels: what? Is Tebow coming back, too?
- Cowher and Gruden: done
- Dungy: done, and also suffers from Ditka disease: everyone thinks he was great, but in honesty, should have won more than one title with the talent he had
I really think it's Gase (who Pey-pey at least knows well enough to bully) or Kubiak, but I see a very realistic scenario where Kubiak won't go back on his word to Baltimore and SF takes Gase. What then?
I realize timing wasn't right, but Jim Harbaugh would have been the best fit. Brings the fire that the Broncos lack. Could have done for Denver what Chucky did for Tampa after he replaced a robot.
duh. Peyton Manning can be the head coach and starting QB.
Andrew Longman
01-14-15, 04:44 PM
The thinking is Elway thought Fox had taken them as far as he could. The problem seems to be that he didn't think much about who could take them further. Slim pickin's. Bowles might have been an option but not one I would have taken. I would have kept Fox.
Insomniac
01-15-15, 10:23 AM
I still don't know what was wrong with Denver. Was Peyton Manning hurt and ineffective or was the coaching staff incapable of winning? Would a different coaching staff get the same team further?
Might come down to the Quinn sweepstakes between Atlanta and Denver.
Andrew Longman
01-15-15, 07:25 PM
Manning was clearly hurt and one of the most accurate passers in the league couldn't hit a barn door.
But the team was flat and Mannings arm strength is really getting suspect.
See my previous posts about this. I suspected there was something wrong, especially after the Bengals 4 INT game. Torn quad. What I don't get is why Denver wasn't required to disclosure the injury, and do so until after the playoff loss.
Tifosi24
01-16-15, 01:35 AM
See my previous posts about this. I suspected there was something wrong, especially after the Bengals 4 INT game. Torn quad. What I don't get is why Denver wasn't required to disclosure the injury, and do so until after the playoff loss.
Without delving into the reporting rules (and what would the internet be without speculation), my guess is that the quad injury would be no different than the normal wear and tear injuries that guys accumulate during the season. Whenever they go through the Vikings recap at the end of the season up here, there always seems to be few guys that had injuries that require surgery that were never disclosed on the injury report over the course of the season. The reporting probably comes into play if time was missed during a game or practice.
Without delving into the reporting rules (and what would the internet be without speculation), my guess is that the quad injury would be no different than the normal wear and tear injuries that guys accumulate during the season. Whenever they go through the Vikings recap at the end of the season up here, there always seems to be few guys that had injuries that require surgery that were never disclosed on the injury report over the course of the season. The reporting probably comes into play if time was missed during a game or practice.
Generally it's for players might not play. However, a few years ago, Bellyache reported Brady every week for two straight seasons, and he played in every game.
WickerBill
01-16-15, 08:17 AM
Manning was on the injury report for the Colts debacle and listed as probable.
Manning was on the injury report for the Colts debacle and listed as probable.
Which begs the question, why was the quad 'news' last week. I saw 3-4 Nags games over the final 4-6 weeks, and I knew something was amiss. Especially throwing 4 INTs against the BenGals. Yet, none of the announcers mentioned the injury report status. :confused: I wish I could find the article about the Pats playing games with injury report/status that was posted a week or so ago. Of course, it could also be said that 'if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'). #NASCAR ;)
Insomniac
01-16-15, 10:48 AM
Generally it's for players might not play. However, a few years ago, Bellyache reported Brady every week for two straight seasons, and he played in every game.
I can speak on the Pats, who are amongst the most secretive. They got called to task by the league a couple times over injury reporting. First was over some non-reporting (the players played) and Belichick retaliated by reporting every ding his team had the following week. The second time was when he listed a player as questionable and he didn't even travel with them (I think it was Richard Seymour vs. Denver). So now they downgrade players to out if they don't travel with the team.
Brady was also probable every week is "a virtual certainty to play". One other thing people don't know is the NFL looks back at the reporting at the end of the season to see if probable was near 100%, questionable was near 50% and doubtful was near 25% statistically. The Patriots play games here. They prefer to use questionable so the opponent gets to figure out which 50% (approximately) will be playing.
Back to Manning. His injury was disclosed, "thigh". Why it's big deal now, someone wanted to get the word out to explain why Manning played poorly down the stretch. So they provided the details the injury report kept cloudy: "quad", "tear", "both".
I get the vagueness. It's like the NHL..upper body, lower body only. In rare cases it's a bit more specific. Like the CBJ had the plague that hit them early this season. Anyway, I found it interesting that the talking heads were jumping all over him, but never mentioned an injury. Perhaps I missed something, but no one should have been surprised that he was hobbled. Instead they jumped his arm, neck, etc.
That, my friends, was an exercise in how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. :eek: :irked: :shakehead: :saywhat:
TravelGal
01-18-15, 11:18 PM
Truer woids was never spoke. I had picked Seattle but I was rooting for Green Bay all the way.
WickerBill
01-18-15, 11:25 PM
Denver lost to Indy. At home. Last week. #neverforget
That, my friends, was an exercise in how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. :eek: :irked: :shakehead: :saywhat:
Complete and total collapse. Unbelievable. All those excellent moments of the Seahawks being humiliated over three and a half quarters gone forever. Heartbreaker.
Truer woids was never spoke. I had picked Seattle but I was rooting for Green Bay all the way.
Same here.
I switched off game two just after halftime. Not a fan of horror movies. :\
Denver lost to Indy. At home. Last week. #neverforget
#brutal :saywhat:
Lori Schmidt retweeted
Bob Kravitz @bkravitz 2h2 hours ago
Breaking: A league source tells me the NFL is investigating the possibility the Patriots deflated footballs Sunday night. More to come.
Peter King @SI_PeterKing 2h2 hours ago
RT @bkravitz: Breaking: A league source tells me the NFL is investigating the possibility the Patriots deflated footballs Sunday night.
:saywhat:
Insomniac
01-19-15, 11:25 AM
:saywhat:
It's always something. Getting so old...
TKGAngel
01-19-15, 12:47 PM
That, my friends, was an exercise in how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. :eek: :irked: :shakehead: :saywhat:
Even the Bills haven't managed to collapse that spectacularly. And they've written the book on ways to lose painfully.
I'm setting the over/under on shots of Giselle in the stands during the Super Bowl at 6.
Insomniac
01-19-15, 02:48 PM
Even the Bills haven't managed to collapse that spectacularly. And they've written the book on ways to lose painfully.
I'm setting the over/under on shots of Giselle in the stands during the Super Bowl at 6.
Taking the under. You can set it at 0.5 and I'll take the under. I don't think I've ever seen her on TV. I assume they request that.
WickerBill
01-21-15, 09:48 AM
Let's be very clear about a few things.
1. Eleven of 12 balls the Patriots used were underinflated by exactly two pounds. That is very specifically against the rules, and shows not an accident but intentional rule-breaking. It cannot be tolerated. If the Texans were found to do this in a 30 point blowout loss to the 49ers in week 3, I'd expect significant action to be taken. That the Patriots have an earned reputation of treating the rulebook like a NASCAR inspection is immaterial to me, but it may be factored in when the punishment is meted.
2. It obviously helps Brady throw the ball, as he has mentioned in the past. But it didn't help the Patriots defense stifle Luck and crush the running game; it had precious little to do with the fact the Colts scored 7. Maybe the Patriots score fewer points with correct ball pressure, but they sure as heck don't score <7.
3. The Ravens, on the other hand, may have a right to wonder if their game against NE may have turned out differently if Brady used proper ball pressure. However, they didn't complain.
4. What the heck, NFL? Why is there any allowed discrepancy? The ball is, ya know, pretty important. Wilson makes astonishingly consistent footballs; what could possibly be the issue in giving the balls to the teams to scuff up, taking them back, inflating/deflating them to exact pressure, and playing ball?
5. What the heck, refs? You touch those balls between EVERY SINGLE PLAY. You didn't notice? You didn't say at halftime, "hey, check the ball pressure"? Two pounds of pressure difference in any inflated sports ball is VERY noticeable.
Two schools of thought (and I know which one Insomniac will take): A) congrats to the Patriots for finding a loophole and exploiting it, take every opportunity to increase your odds, etc., and B) Judas Priest can't they just play the game of football without videotaping, signal-stealing, repeatedly mocking the injury report rules, deflating balls, etc?
Belichick and Brady have been legendary, there's no doubt. I just wish there weren't a string of asterisks -- because I really doubt those asterisks have provided any meaningful increase in success. But we'll never know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnqQhUdXgvI
:D
Insomniac
01-21-15, 11:36 AM
Let's be very clear about a few things.
1. Eleven of 12 balls the Patriots used were underinflated by exactly two pounds. That is very specifically against the rules, and shows not an accident but intentional rule-breaking. It cannot be tolerated. If the Texans were found to do this in a 30 point blowout loss to the 49ers in week 3, I'd expect significant action to be taken. That the Patriots have an earned reputation of treating the rulebook like a NASCAR inspection is immaterial to me, but it may be factored in when the punishment is meted.
2. It obviously helps Brady throw the ball, as he has mentioned in the past. But it didn't help the Patriots defense stifle Luck and crush the running game; it had precious little to do with the fact the Colts scored 7. Maybe the Patriots score fewer points with correct ball pressure, but they sure as heck don't score <7.
3. The Ravens, on the other hand, may have a right to wonder if their game against NE may have turned out differently if Brady used proper ball pressure. However, they didn't complain.
4. What the heck, NFL? Why is there any allowed discrepancy? The ball is, ya know, pretty important. Wilson makes astonishingly consistent footballs; what could possibly be the issue in giving the balls to the teams to scuff up, taking them back, inflating/deflating them to exact pressure, and playing ball?
5. What the heck, refs? You touch those balls between EVERY SINGLE PLAY. You didn't notice? You didn't say at halftime, "hey, check the ball pressure"? Two pounds of pressure difference in any inflated sports ball is VERY noticeable.
Two schools of thought (and I know which one Insomniac will take): A) congrats to the Patriots for finding a loophole and exploiting it, take every opportunity to increase your odds, etc., and B) Judas Priest can't they just play the game of football without videotaping, signal-stealing, repeatedly mocking the injury report rules, deflating balls, etc?
Belichick and Brady have been legendary, there's no doubt. I just wish there weren't a string of asterisks -- because I really doubt those asterisks have provided any meaningful increase in success. But we'll never know.
I hope you thought "B" over "A". :)
At this point, I'm just hoping that they gave them to the refs that way to start. From there, no one will believe a rogue employee theory. That could hurt the team, so they weren't necessarily helping the team. A conspiracy to hurt the Patriots is an even bigger leap. So they set out to do it. So like videotaping defensive signals (and Bob Kravitz, they NEVER taped a practice), they did it. And then everyone can debate it's the only reason they won to it made no difference, blah, blah, blah, with whatever perspective you choose to put forth.
Also, there's loopholes, spirit of the rules and cheating. The cool thing about us being racing fans is we see the whole spectrum.
The penalty should involve opposing teams providing all the balls for the Patriots in the future. They would be pumped up until the seams were bursting.
cameraman
01-21-15, 02:36 PM
So after the field judge has checked all the balls they get taken out on the field, so the claim is that some one managed to deflate the balls in front of a full stadium of people and no one saw a thing. How does that work?
TravelGal
01-21-15, 02:42 PM
I think they should just paper New England with posters that say, "Patriots have soft balls. "
Napoleon
01-21-15, 02:48 PM
Since both sides use the balls how is it that this is a benefit to NE but not the other team?
WickerBill
01-21-15, 02:58 PM
Each team plays with their own balls.
Ahem.
Each team has an allotment. Brady and Wilson will not touch the same football in the super bowl.
5. What the heck, refs? You touch those balls between EVERY SINGLE PLAY. You didn't notice? You didn't say at halftime, "hey, check the ball pressure"? Two pounds of pressure difference in any inflated sports ball is VERY noticeable.
The story I read said that they did check the balls at halftime based a complaint from the Colts who noticed after an interception. I assume that the pressure was corrected at that time.
I was theorizing that the balls were being provided under-inflated and not being tested properly. That would be right up Bill's alley - if I give it to you under-inflated and you don't catch it, it's on you. But another story said that the league says that they were checked. Deflating on the sideline seems so risky and random that it's hard to imagine.
Seems like this is going to be another case of who knew what and when. If this goes back to Belichek I think they need to ban him for a season along with taking two lost first round picks.
Napoleon
01-22-15, 10:20 AM
Each team plays with their own balls.
That's just asking for this kind of problem to happen. If you had no idea who will get what ball then no one is going to screw with them.
cameraman
01-22-15, 12:18 PM
That's just asking for this kind of problem to happen. If you had no idea who will get what ball then no one is going to screw with them.
Problem being that each team scuffs up the ball to their QB's preference. If the balls were randomly distributed you couldn't do that. It seems no one wants to throw a factory shiny ball. Maybe they need a standardized scuffing protocol at the factory and then random distribution.
Tifosi24
01-22-15, 01:00 PM
Problem being that each team scuffs up the ball to their QB's preference. If the balls were randomly distributed you couldn't do that. It seems no one wants to throw a factory shiny ball. Maybe they need a standardized scuffing protocol at the factory and then random distribution.
Or, it could be like baseball, and everyone gets the shiny ball and then it is up to the players to scuff it up during the course of the game. It boggles my mind that the League isn't the one in charge of supply and verifying that the footballs meet the standards set out in the rulebook. In addition, wouldn't it make sense to have the balls filled with nitrogen so that the pressures aren't impacted by changing in temperature?
cameraman
01-22-15, 01:08 PM
Or, it could be like baseball, and everyone gets the shiny ball and then it is up to the players to scuff it up during the course of the game. It boggles my mind that the League isn't the one in charge of supply and verifying that the footballs meet the standards set out in the rulebook. In addition, wouldn't it make sense to have the balls filled with nitrogen so that the pressures aren't impacted by changing in temperature?
The chemist in me just had a small stroke, nitrogen expands and contracts with temperature change just like any other gas. The reason they use pure nitrogen in commercial tires is that it has no water vapor and the lack of oxygen prevents oxidative damage to the inside of the tire. Remember that room air is 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, 1% everything else.
Tifosi24
01-22-15, 01:25 PM
The chemist in me just had a small stroke, nitrogen expands and contracts with temperature change just like any other gas. The reason they use pure nitrogen in commercial tires is that it has no water vapor and the lack of oxygen prevents oxidative damage to the inside of the tire. Remember that room air is 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, 1% everything else.
That's why you're the expert, and I am glad I could keep you on your toes. Thanks for the clarification!
Napoleon
01-22-15, 01:47 PM
Problem being that each team scuffs up the ball to their QB's preference. If the balls were randomly distributed you couldn't do that.
Well then tough. Let the teams scuff up the ball but then put them all in one big bin. Maybe you get one scuffed to someone else's preference, maybe you do not. These guys are suppose to be professionals.
Andrew Longman
01-22-15, 03:21 PM
Or, it could be like baseball, and everyone gets the shiny ball and then it is up to the players to scuff it up during the course of the game.Actually it is the umpires job to rub up the the game ball (with special Delaware River mud) prior to each game. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Rubbing_Mud
I don't see any reason for the football team to have access to game balls at any time. It should be up to the refs and ball boy.
I don't see any reason for the football team to have access to game balls at any time. It should be up to the refs and ball boy.
I bet it soon will be
Insomniac
01-22-15, 06:57 PM
I bet it soon will be
Which would be turning back years of rules changes. That's how it was a long time ago. Then they had it so the home team could prepare the game balls. And in recent-ish years, Brady and Manning lobbied the competition committee to let the visitor's bring their own.
This is probably going to result in officials recording the pressure of each ball and the ball attendants being league employees to better ensure chain of control. They may also deflate the balls and the team supply the desired pressure and the officials put air in them.
Belichick's all, "pV=nRT, son. Pressure is directly related to temperature. Assume a spherical football in a vacuum..."
Cliff notes:
Scuffing the football before the game raises the temperature of the football.
If refs measured the footballs at elevated temps, then the football's pressure would drop as it cooled.
The pressure would drop more once the ball was taken from a warm room to the cold field.
QED. Patriots rule, all others drool. Get out.
He uses words like "equilibrium" and invites others to repeat his experiments.
Coming soon to a science fair near you...
http://youtu.be/T34Q-T99glQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2svKSuNk0Dk
:D
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