Fire Ant Grand Prix

[cameraman]

It looks like young Sebastian Vettel will start the race from the pit lane and completely skip the qualification session because of the limits on the number of engines per season.

Which really shows how idiotic the restrictions on engine use have become.

[NismoZ]

Bets on his track position starting lap 5?

[cameraman]

Not that great as he is also trying to save the race engine for a track better suited to the Renault. Sounds like he will be just phoning this one in.

[NismoZ]

Hmmm...me too.

[Mary]

I don't care what Vettel's reasons are, I don't like the restrictions on numbers of engines, etc. I don't give a flying bleep on how much money Formula One costs and I don't if they have to buy a new engine every race. So what? You lose this many grid places if you change this and that many if you change that is annoying. They want more competitive teams in F1? Make bleepin' Bernie share more of the money. Do they still have that X million dollar fee just to join the series? I know I'm being grumpy. I am aware that one needs to be careful in what they wish for (hey, TG could be running it) but I hope we'll soon be seeing the end of Bernie days.

Mary

[chop456]

Cost savings by limiting the number of engines you were forced to spend tens of millions developing. :tony:

[Andrew Longman]

Back in the day when they had qualifying engines and race engines and no quarantining cars was far more interesting as a spectator -- but it was pretty nuts too.

I can see taking a penalty for changing an engine on a race weekend. NASCAR even does that. But to screw up your entire season because of limit on the total number of engines is pretty ridiculous and does not make the sport better or more valuable as a business.

[Insomniac]

What is the penalty to change the engine? If you're going to start from pit lane, is it worse than starting at the back?

[Mary]

Back in the day when they had qualifying engines and race engines and no quarantining cars was far more interesting as a spectator -- but it was pretty nuts too.

I can see taking a penalty for changing an engine on a race weekend. NASCAR even does that. But to screw up your entire season because of limit on the total number of engines is pretty ridiculous and does not make the sport better or more valuable as a business.

It was totally nuts but lots more fun. Initially, Formula One's "over the top-ness" was one of its draws for me.

Mary

[WickerBill]

- Relax the in-season testing limits
- Allow two engine updates per year (of course, all customers of the manufacturer get equal engines)
- Stop writing such specificity into the rules (for instance, the nose shall be 185mm from the ground).
- Stop banning ingenuity (FRIC, colander exhaust) - it's what makes the sport great
- Allow unlimited fuel (no refueling)
- Eliminate double points
- Give a point for pole (so long as qualifying takes place)
- Allow unlimited revs. They keep saying they want the drivers to have to work harder. Easy. Give them more power and less grip.
- To counterbalance unlimited revs (not for cost reasons), limit to (races/2.5) engines per season.


Dunno... just some ideas. If Caterham or Marussia can't afford these changes -- if they are so on the edge that this would put them out of business -- out of business they go.

[cameraman]

What is the penalty to change the engine? If you're going to start from pit lane, is it worse than starting at the back?

10 grid spot. At that point you are back with the Sutils and Maldonados so you might as well save the engine and start in the pit lane. That way you are less likely to be crashed out by idiots and you don't have to take the penalty at all in Abu Dhabi where the track is far more suited to the Red Bull's power unit.

[Insomniac]

10 grid spot. At that point you are back with the Sutils and Maldonados so you might as well save the engine and start in the pit lane. That way you are less likely to be crashed out by idiots and you don't have to take the penalty at all in Abu Dhabi where the track is far more suited to the Red Bull's power unit.

I still don't get it. Unpack a new engine in Austin and take the penalty. And if you really want to start from pit lane, do something else to make that happen (stall on the formation lap start like Rosberg).

[cameraman]

They don't have a new engine to uncrate. They are severely limiting the minutes on the remaining units, all used. He grenaded at least one very early in its cycle. They have known this was coming for months.

[Insomniac]

- Relax the in-season testing limits
- Allow two engine updates per year (of course, all customers of the manufacturer get equal engines)
- Stop writing such specificity into the rules (for instance, the nose shall be 185mm from the ground).
- Stop banning ingenuity (FRIC, colander exhaust) - it's what makes the sport great
- Allow unlimited fuel (no refueling)
- Eliminate double points
- Give a point for pole (so long as qualifying takes place)
- Allow unlimited revs. They keep saying they want the drivers to have to work harder. Easy. Give them more power and less grip.
- To counterbalance unlimited revs (not for cost reasons), limit to (races/2.5) engines per season.


Dunno... just some ideas. If Caterham or Marussia can't afford these changes -- if they are so on the edge that this would put them out of business -- out of business they go.

I don't think they ban ingenuity. They are finding these things and then the FIA is behind and specifically bans them. There is still a cat and mouse game played.

I think all the money has necessitated the specific rules.

On engines, I think the idea of an engine limits is good only because of cost control (for the buyer). I think every manufacturer should be allowed to develop all year. Do any actually not develop at any point? Agree on unlimited fuel and revs. Let the manufacturer figure out efficiency, there's an incentive for it (less weight).

[Insomniac]

They don't have a new engine to uncrate. They are severely limiting the minutes on the remaining units, all used. He grenaded at least one very early in its cycle. They have known this was coming for months.

By don't have one, do you mean Renault can't provide one or they don't want to incur the penalty to do it? There isn't an outright ban on it, right? It would be crazy if a team grenaded their allotted engines and could no longer race the rest of the season.

[cameraman]

They figure that the Red Bull is going to suck at COTA and they won't be contending for the podium anyway. Vettel isn't racing for anything right now, he is phoning the rest of the season in. They are 126 points up on Williams in the constructors championship, a few points do not matter. Vettel's season is done and dusted. They are not about to waste the money on a new engine for him.

[Insomniac]

They figure that the Red Bull is going to suck at COTA and they won't be contending for the podium anyway. Vettel isn't racing for anything right now, he is phoning the rest of the season in. They are 126 points up on Williams in the constructors championship, a few points do not matter. Vettel's season is done and dusted. They are not about to waste the money on a new engine for him.

OK, I see now. The issue wasn't my sense, it was Red Bull's sense. :)

[cameraman]

OK, I see now. The issue wasn't my sense, it was Red Bull's sense. :)

Don't forget that it would be 10 place penalty at Brazil and Abu Dhabi too. This way there is no penalty at Brazil or Abu Dhabi.
I think the plan is the best idea for a s***** situation.

[Insomniac]

Don't forget that it would be 10 place penalty at Brazil and Abu Dhabi too. This way there is no penalty at Brazil or Abu Dhabi.
I think the plan is the best idea for a s***** situation.

Ohh, last year it was a one time penalty.

[cameraman]

It would be every time you use the sixth engine you would get the penalty.

[Insomniac]

It would be every time you use the sixth engine you would get the penalty.

Ohhh wow, that's horrible.

[opinionated ow]

Ohhh wow, that's horrible.

Are we certain of that? In past years when you've gone through gearbox or engine allegations you've only had to take the penalty once. I've not found anything to suggest that has changed.