Another sign of growth of the irl.

[cart7]

Richmonds ratings were a .48 :rolleyes:

Sat evening baseball drew a .46

[mapguy]

Praise Toney George and pass the kool-aid.

Thank god the Lord Sagamore saved us from those pagan C^RT owners.

[racer2c]

When are we going to see the drivers revolt. Instead of drinking the Kool-Aid they need to vocalize in interviews that they are sick of putting their butts on the line every other week for no one. Just once I'd like to hear a driver say "This sucks. They need to do something and quick!".

[Turn7]

Originally posted by racer2c
When are we going to see the drivers revolt. Instead of drinking the Kool-Aid they need to vocalize in interviews that they are sick of putting their butts on the line every other week for no one. Just once I'd like to hear a driver say "This sucks. They need to do something and quick!".

They don't put their butts on the line for anybody in the stands. They do it for themselves. They are professionals, which means they drive for a paycheck. If they weren't being paid, and nobody showed up, then they wouldn't bother. As long as the checks keep cashing, that is enough satisfaction for a driver.

[devilmaster]

Originally posted by racer2c
Just once I'd like to hear a driver say "This sucks. They need to do something and quick!".

Tony wants it to be just like NASCAR. Where the drivers don't talk back or your car might just fail tech..... :shakehead

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Turn7
They don't put their butts on the line for anybody in the stands. They do it for themselves. They are professionals, which means they drive for a paycheck. If they weren't being paid, and nobody showed up, then they wouldn't bother. As long as the checks keep cashing, that is enough satisfaction for a driver.

Spare me. The lemmings keep preaching that CART drivers are paying to be there ayway. I think PT is the only who gets a paycheck.

[Turn7]

I doubt that PT is the only one getting paid. All are getting paid whether by bringing their own sponsorship deal or if it is a straight up contract with the owner.

PC, PT, Bruno, Bourdais, Jourdain, Vasser, Papis, and Tagliani are all making a tighty sum I would imagine. If Papis was paying, why would he make the comment about CART needing him more than he needed them?

Think a little before you spew.

[Ziggy]

I would agree with Turn7's comments on the drivers being paid in CART. How a deal works is either the driver goes out and finds the money, keeps some for himself, or is paid a salary/and or/ a percentage of the winnings. Same for crew...

That being said, something to think about when poking fun at the IRL. They had a pretty large crowd at Richmond. This crowd was also NOT part of any Stock Car ticket package. This is in the heart of NASCAR country. Even the Silver Crown race was well attended, with a crowd that would make the more traditional dates green with envy. One of the better oval crowds for any series in quite sometime, in stand alone ticket sales. I understand Marlboro gave away somewhere in the neighborhood of 8K tickets, but fans USED them.

As fans of one series or another, I think we all may be braying at a ghost. The car owners who have jumped ship dont really care. They are still making money, the landscape of the IRL is very much like the old CART series in regards to teams, and personal.

Wonder what the ratings for Road America are going to be like...? For that matter, Cleveland?

Ziggy

[skidmarks]

It seems whenever the Earl is critisized someone pops in and throws the critisism back at C^RT. The point of most EARL slamming is that Toonies series was supposed to put the final nail in C^RT's coffin this year. Nearly all C^RT had was gone, no Penske, no Andretti, no Ganassi, no returning champion, C^RT was a dead, spec series with two good teams and everyone else. Comparing C^RT and the Earl this year(ratings wise) has been a near wash. However, C^RT shouldn't even be in the picture, right? This is C^RT's lowest year, the rebuilding year, and yet it is performing as well, and in some cases better, than the EARL at it's apex.

C^RT is coming, the IRL is going.

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Turn7
I doubt that PT is the only one getting paid. All are getting paid whether by bringing their own sponsorship deal or if it is a straight up contract with the owner.

PC, PT, Bruno, Bourdais, Jourdain, Vasser, Papis, and Tagliani are all making a tighty sum I would imagine. If Papis was paying, why would he make the comment about CART needing him more than he needed them?

Think a little before you spew.

Yes father. Teach me of the ways of the racing world. :rolleyes:

Of course they are getting paid... learn the word sarcasm.

But, back to my original point, what are the youths of America stumbling over themselves to obtain...hint, it ain't openwheel racing.

Ziggy, I don't know what TV you were watching, but that Richmond crowd looked miserably small on mine.

[Turn7]

In my best Tony Montana voice, "4Q".

:p

[Railbird]

Ziggy, I don't know what TV you were watching, but that Richmond crowd looked miserably small on mine.


Compared to what racer?

The size of the stadium itself? Well yeah, those Nascar tracks will do that to about any oenwheel crowd.

Compared to Milwaukee or Laguna it looked like pretty decent crowd. Considering it was right in the middle of the stockcar homeland I thought it looked like a suprisingly large crowd.

[DaveL]

Marlboro has been giving away a large amount of tickets all year 'Bird.

Earl ratings are trending down. Looking at it empircally and objectively, it has not netted a single new fan since 1996 and has, if anything, lost fans.

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Railbird
Ziggy, I don't know what TV you were watching, but that Richmond crowd looked miserably small on mine.


Compared to what racer?

The size of the stadium itself? Well yeah, those Nascar tracks will do that to about any oenwheel crowd.

Compared to Milwaukee or Laguna it looked like pretty decent crowd. Considering it was right in the middle of the stockcar homeland I thought it looked like a suprisingly large crowd.

I'm not going to get dragged into an IRL crowd comparison, 'bird. It's like applauding a 1.5 rating. Great for open-wheel racing, sucks by any other comparison.

Next you're going to be telling me that Richmond was proof of IRL 'growth'.

[Railbird]

Good Lord boys, I was just stating that the Richmond crowd didn't look too bad.

I'm well aware of the giveaways that happen in all sponsor suported racing, I just thought the turnout was good for a formula race in Nascar country.

But yeah, the steady downward spiral of the TV ratings is probably the most telling point. The IRL is in a strong position as far as TV packages go, but even with a lot of the CART shows invisible to much of the country they are still losing viewers.


I need a Tshirt with "Niche Motorsports" on it.

[trubritz]

I need a T shirt with "Niche Motorsports" on it.

"Bird, if you find one, let me know - although I'd prefer "Nice Niche Motorsports" myself:cool:

Happy 4th tomorrow BTW to y'all - from one of your favourite redcoats!:D

[Ziggy]

DaveL wrote


"Marlboro has been giving away a large amount of tickets all year 'Bird.

Earl ratings are trending down. Looking at it empircally and objectively, it has not netted a single new fan since 1996 and has, if anything, lost fans."

Bingo. To sell ANY tickets in Richmond was a small victory. The guys I talked too were CART people who were there. 40K at ANY openwheel oval show is a nice crowd.

Ziggy

[devilmaster]

Originally posted by Railbird
I need a Tshirt with "Niche Motorsports" on it.

I just wonder if the word 'Niche' would be wasted on some of our more 'unenlightened' NASCAR fans.... ;)

Steve

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Ziggy
DaveL wrote


"Marlboro has been giving away a large amount of tickets all year 'Bird.

Earl ratings are trending down. Looking at it empircally and objectively, it has not netted a single new fan since 1996 and has, if anything, lost fans."

Bingo. To sell ANY tickets in Richmond was a small victory. The guys I talked too were CART people who were there. 40K at ANY openwheel oval show is a nice crowd.

Ziggy

I'm 30 minutes away from RIR and proudly haven't gone to one Earl 'show'.

I've lived here since '95 and have yet to meet another CART fan in these parts, got any contacts, they can come over to my place for a CART race and BBQ.

Tickets were $35 *cheap* in a DC/Richmond area of millions. I've seen more people at Richmond Braves games. 40K my a**.

BUT! I wasn't there, so what do I know.

[Ziggy]

The contacts I know are paid to go and cover the races, so they are a little busy with their jobs.

On ticket prices, selling them at 30 bucks versus not selling them (insert price here) is better how? Heck, getting someone to use a FREE ticket is a good thing. You cant sell a hotdog to an empty seat.

Somehow I take your posts as an invitation for argument. Im just stating that getting anyone,in the heart of stockcar country, to attend an openwheel race is a small victory. I believe that a guy covering motorsports for 30 years, another guy who has been a PR man for Miller Brewing company for 10 years, and another sportswriter that I know who has covered racing for at least 15 years are a pretty good at giving an honest crowd size.

Your mileage may vary

Ziggy

[Peter Olivola]

I wouldn't trust anything coming from anyone practicing public relations. Unless I've had a chance to read and evaluate the others I wouldn't trust or distrust them.


Originally posted by Ziggy
The contacts I know are paid to go and cover the races, so they are a little busy with their jobs.

On ticket prices, selling them at 30 bucks versus not selling them (insert price here) is better how? Heck, getting someone to use a FREE ticket is a good thing. You cant sell a hotdog to an empty seat.

Somehow I take your posts as an invitation for argument. Im just stating that getting anyone,in the heart of stockcar country, to attend an openwheel race is a small victory. I believe that a guy covering motorsports for 30 years, another guy who has been a PR man for Miller Brewing company for 10 years, and another sportswriter that I know who has covered racing for at least 15 years are a pretty good at giving an honest crowd size.

Your mileage may vary

Ziggy

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Ziggy
The contacts I know are paid to go and cover the races, so they are a little busy with their jobs.

On ticket prices, selling them at 30 bucks versus not selling them (insert price here) is better how? Heck, getting someone to use a FREE ticket is a good thing. You cant sell a hotdog to an empty seat.

Somehow I take your posts as an invitation for argument. Im just stating that getting anyone,in the heart of stockcar country, to attend an openwheel race is a small victory. I believe that a guy covering motorsports for 30 years, another guy who has been a PR man for Miller Brewing company for 10 years, and another sportswriter that I know who has covered racing for at least 15 years are a pretty good at giving an honest crowd size.

Your mileage may vary

Ziggy

Argument? Hardly. I'm just a bit saddened by the whole thing. When the biggest fans of CART become IRL apologists (I'm not accusing you of that Ziggy) the end is indeed near.

Atlanta is even more in the heart of stock car country and a '98 CART broadcast garnered a 2.5 local rating. As for attendance I hold to my original point, in an area of millions getting 40K is no great feat in my book. It's not like they have to drive down a two lane country road to an out of the way road course.

[Ziggy]

When the biggest fans of CART become IRL apologists

Bingo, and this is where Im coming from. We have all been supporting a series made up of guys who really dont care as long as the cash register keeps ringing. This being a CART site, and I a CART fan, this is what signifies a very bad omen for me. The paddock and associated hanger's on that now go to IRL races are the same people who have made up CART since '79. You can take this anyway you want. Engineers, designers, crew members, owners, drivers, all most all can trace their involvement into CART, some rather current.

The crowd at Richmond was very much equal to the crowd at Milwaukee. Milwaukee has been having races for quite sometime, Richmond on the other hand, is a neophyte to the OpenWheel scene.

The teams of Players and Newman/Haas are really the only two teams that have stayed the course. "Dumbing Down" seems to have little bearing on the conscience of any of the Team Owners or crews/journalists/associate sponsors/casual fan etal. Money is now what makes this sport go around, and the IRL has more than CART.

Im really sorry I even responded to this thread. IMO the IRL is getting healthier, at least as healthy as CART. Everyone wants to laugh and crow over TV ratings, while both are in the tank. What is alarming to me is, tickets to the events are getting used, sold, whatever. This is a very big sign that after eight years the "League" is being embraced, if for nothing else, as an alternative to NASCAR.

Ziggy

[Jag_Warrior]

The Richmond paper estimated that this year's IRL crowd was roughly equal to the first year (2001?). Yet, I've seen many IRL'ers refer to this as "growth".

We had to give a "survival presentation" to our new CEO yesterday. If we'd tried the kind of B.S. dog & pony number shuffling that represents growth by IRL standards, we'd all be looking for work Monday morning.

Let me guess, the patient looks to be dying, but the operation was a success... :rolleyes:

[paper]

hey jag .. how ya doin? much to tell ya sometime.. paper

[Railbird]

the patient looks to be dying, but the operation was a success...

Or,both patients are critical, only one has insurance.

[Jag_Warrior]

Originally posted by Railbird
the patient looks to be dying, but the operation was a success...

Or,both patients are critical, only one has insurance.

Actually, "the patient" I was talking about was North American open wheel formula car racing. IMO, CART and the IRL are just opposite arms on the same sick body. One arm or the other may be saved, but the body appears to be dying. I'd rather be wrong than right on this one, but the evidence seems to suggest the game is nearing an end... at least as part of the "big leagues". Maybe we can give the drivers funny(ier) names and encourage people in Vegas and AC to bet on them. Maybe then, Indy can at least match the ratings for the Kentucky Derby again.

As far as these strict CART vs. IRL arguments, I'm done with that, Mr. 'Bird. When I departed 7th Gear, my spirit for that silliness went away. But your point is well taken.

[Jag_Warrior]

Originally posted by paper
hey jag .. how ya doin? much to tell ya sometime.. paper

Hi Paper. Great to see you here! I really like this board! :thumbup:

Thanks, I'm doing pretty well... just busier than h#ll - keep getting drafted into other people's "Oh God!" projects. Just trying to make sure that I have a chair when the fiddler stops playing the music. Gotta use the old elbows sometimes, but that's life, eh?

I'm going to more drag racing events of late. I don't really understand it all, and it doesn't really turn me on like open wheel or sports cars... but the fans are there for one reason and one reason ONLY: to have FUN. That, I can relate to.

I'll be around.. talk to me. :)

[Railbird]

Point well made and well taken Jag.