Simply Great or Greatest Ever?

[Napoleon]

Serena Williams, discuss.

Oh and John McEnroe, 23 years younger then her, says he could beat her? Has he been huffing that toenail fungus medicine he hawks on TV?

[cameraman]

That must be some seriously amazing fungal medicine if it can make him younger than Serena...

[Tifosi24]

I don't follow the sport as closely as I use to, but one of my recently retired coworkers isa big tennis guy so I was always talking the game with him. It is hard for me to put her as the greatest of all-time in the women's game for a couple reasons, but I think it is reasonable to put her in the top 3. The first reason she's not number one is the quality and depth of the women's game over the past 10-15 years. Granted, this isn't Serena's fault, but there hasn't been a consistent, high-end opponent, that she has had to fend off major after major. The second is more subjective, but I would say her mental game is lacking at times. This is a testament to how much better she is than other players, but you would be hard pressed to find someone else who can routinely dominate a match but also lose a set in love or one, two. There is also the question of how many majors she could have if tennis were the only focus in her life, but I think that can be put into the mental aspect.

[WickerBill]

On top of her game, I think she dominates Graf, Martina, Chris Evert, and Hingis in their primes. Destroys them.

I think the women's game is far more advanced than it was back when Martina and Chris dominated, and STILL she gets bored with it. She struggles with her weight (as did Seles, who was really Graf's only competitor and was removed from that situation) and her focus, but it is really hard for me to make a case that anyone else in the history of the game would have a winning record against her.

If you say the quality and depth is bad now - what was it after Seles was stabbed? Graf had zero competition. I'm sorry, but Serena fighting off Venus, Hingis, Sharapova, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Henin over the course of her career, and really dominating all of them except Hingis, is astounding.

[cameraman]

I don't know about that. An uninjured, focused Martina Hingis is a very formidable tennis player. She played injured more often than not and still managed a very successful career. She also managed to do & say quite a few stupid things along the way but when she had it all together she was really, really good. After a long layoff she is still playing doubles today and just won both women's and mixed at Wimbledon.

[WickerBill]

Perhaps I'm biased against Hingis. I loved watching her play, but I never felt like she was a threat to win every weekend. It's headline news - at 33 years old! - when Serena loses.

Personally, I think Seles was better than Hingis. Too bad we didn't get to find out.

[dando]

I used to follow the game very closely In the Connors, Borg, Johnny Mac, Evert, Navratolova, Seles, etc. eras...right up until the Sampras/Agassi era ended. I had a very good friend get married the weekend Jimbo made his run into the semis at the US Open in '91, and I had to get updates frequently. ;) After that, Mens US tennis just went to crap. Courier and Chang were short-lived also rans, IMO. Comparing Serena to past greats is like arguing wether Babe Ruth would hit 714 HRs today with today's pitchers, training regimens. The games change, the equipment changes, and the athletes just get bigger and stronger. BTW, I probably still have my dad's Stan Smith in the garage mess. Yeah, I'd have to rank her #1 all-time and Johnny Mac should STFU.

http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-on-the-fly-0830-20150829-story.html

[dando]

Bummer. Great, great match, tho. Not sure who the talking head was on E$PN.com that stated the quarters would be boring. WRONG.

[WickerBill]

Man she was wound tight. I didn't think the stress would get to her like that but it obviously did.

[dando]

Man she was wound tight. I didn't think the stress would get to her like that but it obviously did.

I only caught the last half of the third set. Did her serve fail her again? I was busy packing, saw she won the first set, and thought 'meh, it's over'. A bit later I saw the second set result, and still thought it was in the bag. Then I saw it was 3 up and started watching the match. And yes, she looked tight.

[Napoleon]

Tough loss. I was really hoping she did it.

PS, interesting story on her 2 weeks with some great pictures:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/sports/tennis/two-weeks-in-new-york.html

[opinionated ow]

For me the best female ever is Margaret Court. Nobody has yet touched her career numbers. (except prize money)

[dando]

For me the best female ever is Margaret Court. Nobody has yet touched her career numbers. (except prize money)

In her era, yes. Wouldn't survive an opening round today. Again, it's like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds, ARod, etc. in today's MLB with 90mph+ pitchers everywhere.

[opinionated ow]

In her era, yes. Wouldn't survive an opening round today. Again, it's like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds, ARod, etc. in today's MLB with 90mph+ pitchers everywhere.

Or Fangio and Moss to Schumacher and Vettel

[Tifosi24]

In her era, yes. Wouldn't survive an opening round today. Again, it's like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds, ARod, etc. in today's MLB with 90mph+ pitchers everywhere.

That argument isn't particularly valid. It works if Court or past greats were somehow brought into the future as they were in the past. It is more realistic to assume that the greats of the past, if born now and developed under today's games, would have grown to dominate now. American football may be an exception because the substance of the game and application of the rules of the game have changed so dramatically over time.

[dando]

That argument isn't particularly valid. It works if Court or past greats were somehow brought into the future as they were in the past. It is more realistic to assume that the greats of the past, if born now and developed under today's games, would have grown to dominate now. American football may be an exception because the substance of the game and application of the rules of the game have changed so dramatically over time.

Sorry, but I don't see Court slamming a 125mph+ serve. Period. :) Serena slammed one @ 126 Friday. Many men players can't do that (Kevin Curren excluded). :) Again, an argument for the ages among sports.