View Full Version : Newey says teams refuse engines out of fear
Hard Driver
10-13-15, 09:40 AM
Adrian Newey says teams won't giver Red Bull engines out of fear they will be beat with their own engine.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34513738
Well, it seems like the reason you may be forced out of F1 is that you acted like babies when Renault had a less than best engine. I guess McCarren should also leave F1 because Honda is sucking now. Maybe you should go to Honda and see if they want to supply a second team.
I think the quote in the story is: "Red Bull should not be put in a position where they're only there to make up the numbers."
Not sure why he thinks Red Bull is entitled to the best engine on the grid?
Insomniac
10-13-15, 10:04 AM
Duh. :)
Like all teams, they want to win. The other teams know what will happen if they get better engines. Toto Wolff said this already:
"Red Bull is a very hip brand. [We wondered] is there in any way we can make that work so that Mercedes benefits from an association with Red Bull on the road car side with joint platforms so we can afford to dilute our success in Formula 1?
"We have invested so many years into the development of that power unit, into the cooling, into the hydraulics, into the electronics - would you take those bits and give it to another team which hasn't been involved in that? You probably don't do it."
Ferrari is the same way.
They aren't entitled to engines, but they are also entitled to decide they don't care to compete in a sport where they'd have a defined competitive disadvantage. Ferrari and Mercedes are happy to supply any team except them. It's clear they're scared.
Red Bull has to give up something more than cash to secure the Ferrari or Mercedes engine.
opinionated ow
10-13-15, 11:16 AM
Duh. :)
Like all teams, they want to win. The other teams know what will happen if they get better engines. Toto Wolff said this already:
Ferrari is the same way.
They aren't entitled to engines, but they are also entitled to decide they don't care to compete in a sport where they'd have a defined competitive disadvantage. Ferrari and Mercedes are happy to supply any team except them. It's clear they're scared.
Red Bull has to give up something more than cash to secure the Ferrari or Mercedes engine.
And you know what, if F1 didn't have this stupid engine freeze bs and this tokens bollocks, the renault would be competitive. F1 brought it on itself. If Red Bull go, F1 is screwed. The other option of course, floated a few times, is that Red Bull buys F1 and runs it like they do with WRC.
Insomniac
10-13-15, 11:33 AM
And you know what, if F1 didn't have this stupid engine freeze bs and this tokens bollocks, the renault would be competitive. F1 brought it on itself. If Red Bull go, F1 is screwed. The other option of course, floated a few times, is that Red Bull buys F1 and runs it like they do with WRC.
They're talking 3 car teams. Plus, is Red Bull just going to sit on all the assets or sell the team? Someone else may be happy to have better engines than Renaults. Red Bull is 4th this season. They could be 3rd or better with better engines. They want to be #1 now.
It isn't just Red Bull but also Torro Rosso.
stroker
10-13-15, 12:33 PM
is Cosworth still for sale?
Insomniac
10-13-15, 12:47 PM
It isn't just Red Bull but also Torro Rosso.
They'd take the 2015 spec engine from Ferrari.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121254
Pilgrims Drop
10-13-15, 01:09 PM
No, Helmut Marko has stated that it's 2016 engines for both teams or neither team will compete in 2016. Also it seems that it'll be against the rules to use a year old engine so that's a no go as well...
3 car teams... please get real!!
But as Opinionated OW says... F1 brought this on themselves with the new rules and restrictions...
It's worse now that it was in 2013... only 2 drivers have a realistic chance of winning and one of those 2 is a dud...
And consider what Red Bull brings to F1... tons of marketing... they actively bring young drivers up and have a vast junior programme... it's almost bigger than the other teams combined!!
F1 is placing its faith in Merc and Ferrari... Merc will jump ship sooner than later because either they'll realize they won't gain much ROI by crushing everything OR they will begin to loose again and then they'll leave because of ROI... Ferrari is the only manufacturer that has always been around... Renault is on the verge of getting out as well... they'll do one last effort by buying Lotus but... their engine still sucks and they cannot fix the design due to the new rules... Audi?? Never happen now with VWs legal issues...
All F1 needs is an idiot grandson to Bernie to make it more familiar when it implodes...
No, Helmut Marko has stated that it's 2016 engines for both teams or neither team will compete in 2016. Also it seems that it'll be against the rules to use a year old engine so that's a no go as well...
3 car teams... please get real!!
But as Opinionated OW says... F1 brought this on themselves with the new rules and restrictions...
It's worse now that it was in 2013... only 2 drivers have a realistic chance of winning and one of those 2 is a dud...
And consider what Red Bull brings to F1... tons of marketing... they actively bring young drivers up and have a vast junior programme... it's almost bigger than the other teams combined!!
F1 is placing its faith in Merc and Ferrari... Merc will jump ship sooner than later because either they'll realize they won't gain much ROI by crushing everything OR they will begin to loose again and then they'll leave because of ROI... Ferrari is the only manufacturer that has always been around... Renault is on the verge of getting out as well... they'll do one last effort by buying Lotus but... their engine still sucks and they cannot fix the design due to the new rules... Audi?? Never happen now with VWs legal issues...
All F1 needs is an idiot grandson to Bernie to make it more familiar when it implodes...
Mercedes lost money on F1 last year. That's quite an incentive for continued participation.
cameraman
10-13-15, 01:52 PM
Mercedes lost money on F1 last year. That's quite an incentive for continued participation.
Mercedes isn't in the series to make money so by what definition are you saying that they lost money?
Mercedes isn't in the series to make money so by what definition are you saying that they lost money?
http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121135
cameraman
10-13-15, 02:22 PM
Exactly what I said.
...however, the report claims the overall loss was "within the pre-defined parameters set by the shareholders"
They never had any delusions of making money. They had set a window for how much money they were allowed to lose knowing full well that they were going to lose money.
chop456
10-14-15, 01:54 AM
I think I'm past the point of even caring if it implodes or not. The people running things screwed it up, now this is what you get.
Bernie Ecclestone says Red Bull's Formula 1 future is now "sorted" (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121340)
When asked if he thought Red Bull would pull out, Ecclestone told Autosport: "I think now, with what's happened, no.
Yes$$$...move on!$$$ Nothing to see here.$$$ Move along.$$$. Looking forward to those 4-car grids again!:shakehead:
Pilgrims Drop
10-29-15, 05:10 AM
The plot thickens as Merc involvement is revealed... (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-how-vw-s-f1-vision-helped-kill-red-bull-mercedes-deal/)
Hard Driver
10-29-15, 07:38 PM
The plot thickens as Merc involvement is revealed... (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-how-vw-s-f1-vision-helped-kill-red-bull-mercedes-deal/)
Interesting, so Merc asked them to kill their Renault deal and then backed out of discussions...
Still don't think Red Bull is entitled to the best engine, but they are certainly good for F1 marketing. Keeping them around would be nice..
Does seem like it might be better for Mercedes to win in a healthy F1, even if in the back of a Red Bull, than it would be for Mercedes to win in an F1 that is down 2 teams.
pfc_m_drake
10-29-15, 08:42 PM
Still don't think Red Bull is entitled to the best engine, but they are certainly good for F1 marketing. Keeping them around would be nice...
I don't like the word 'entitled'. But what I will says is that if a team is unhappy with their current engine, they should be able to get current spec engine from another manufacturer under a customer arrangement.
So Red Bull is unhappy with Renault. But
Mercedes is unwilling to supply them with engines
Ferrari is unwilling to supply them with engines
Honda (if you believe the reports) is being precluded from supplying them with engines due to some arrangement with Ron Dennis
If you're Red Bull...what do you do?
Their answer is 'quit', and I can see why they might arrive at that conclusion.
stroker
10-30-15, 09:34 PM
I don't like the word 'entitled'. But what I will says is that if a team is unhappy with their current engine, they should be able to get current spec engine from another manufacturer under a customer arrangement.
So Red Bull is unhappy with Renault. But
Mercedes is unwilling to supply them with engines
Ferrari is unwilling to supply them with engines
Honda (if you believe the reports) is being precluded from supplying them with engines due to some arrangement with Ron Dennis
If you're Red Bull...what do you do?
Their answer is 'quit', and I can see why they might arrive at that conclusion.
Raise the price on their swill a nickel per can and they can probably buy whatever engine they want...
pfc_m_drake
10-31-15, 03:43 PM
Raise the price on their swill a nickel per can and they can probably buy whatever engine they want...
I genuinely don't think it's a money issue.
If you read the entire backstory behind the Mercedes engine deal/no deal I think you'll come to the same conclusion.
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