Natural Gas Leak

[TravelGal]

I'm hoping some of you can give me a better understanding of the required drilling processes described in this article. One poster is angry that they are drilling more wells since it seems to be well that's a problem. Since October, we've been told the leak was from the underground reservoir itself, not a well. I'm confused. And, yes, I can smell it at my house, especially on windy days. I swear I"m getting worried about lighting a match or my own gas stove burners. KABOOM!

http://patch.com/california/northridge/gas-co-pinpoints-cause-massive-gas-leak-it-wont-solve-problem?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&utm_term=politics+%26+government&utm_campaign=recirc&utm_content=aol

[dando]

I'm hoping some of you can give me a better understanding of the required drilling processes described in this article. One poster is angry that they are drilling more wells since it seems to be well that's a problem. Since October, we've been told the leak was from the underground reservoir itself, not a well. I'm confused. And, yes, I can smell it at my house, especially on windy days. I swear I"m getting worried about lighting a match or my own gas stove burners. KABOOM!

http://patch.com/california/northridge/gas-co-pinpoints-cause-massive-gas-leak-it-wont-solve-problem?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&utm_term=politics+%26+government&utm_campaign=recirc&utm_content=aol

True natural gas has no odor. The nat gas companies add the odor (like rotten eggs) to detect leaks and for safety. We've had two houses go kablooie this year due to gas leaks...one in Upper Arlington (a very affluent area) took out ~7 houses. :eek: I'd hammer on the gas co. to check for leaks in the area. If you can smell, it isn't from natural sources. :\

[TravelGal]

True natural gas has no odor. The nat gas companies add the odor (like rotten eggs) to detect leaks and for safety. We've had two houses go kablooie this year due to gas leaks...one in Upper Arlington (a very affluent area) took out ~7 houses. :eek: I'd hammer on the gas co. to check for leaks in the area. If you can smell, it isn't from natural sources. :\

Read up on it and you'll see why we can smell it. The City is already suing the Gas Company. 2,000 + people have been relocated. Schools closed. Real estate values ($1 million homes) in the dumpster.

[dando]

Read up on it and you'll see why we can smell it. The City is already suing the Gas Company. 2,000 + people have been relocated. Schools closed. Real estate values ($1 million homes) in the dumpster.

I did. Not quite buying the excuse/fix. However, in this age of fracking, etc. the rules change. :\ But seriously, true nat gas has no odor.

EDIT: I'm not an engineer, geologist, or water boy (like Don Q), but I've seen a ton of news traffic from around oHIo about the effects of fracking, and nothing even close has happened around here.

[SteveH]

“a 7-inch diameter steel pipeline that allows natural gas to be put into a naturally occurring underground storage field.”

I know that natural gas is stored in underground fields however I would have never thought it would be in an earthquake prone area. :eek:

[cameraman]

There are underground storage facilities all over the US.

331 in depleted oil fields, 43 in aquifers and 37 salt caverns. As far as I have seen this is the first time one has ever failed.

http://www.eia.gov/cfapps/ngqs/images/storage_2010.png

As for the scale, in 2007 there were 12 storage fields in California containing 266 billion cu ft of gas. That is billion.
It is just larger now...

[dando]

Notice all of the stuff in Eastern oHIo and Western PA. That's what I keep an eye on. :saywhat:

[Elmo T]

I think everyone has this covered, but:

Yes, methane has no odor.

Natural gas like you use in your home in a blend of gasses with an odorant added: methyl mercaptan (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MHMI/mmg139.pdf) . The odor threshold for methyl mercaptan is 1 part per billion. By the time it reaches an explosive mix, you will have been running down the street for some time. Hard part if the odor is so offensive, even a small amount makes people feel sick.

[dando]

I think everyone has this covered, but:

Yes, methane has no odor.

Natural gas like you use in your home in a blend of gasses with an odorant added: methyl mercaptan (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MHMI/mmg139.pdf) . The odor threshold for methyl mercaptan is 1 part per billion. By the time it reaches an explosive mix, you will have been running down the street for some time. Hard part if the odor is so offensive, even a small amount makes people feel sick.

This sucker was visible for miles...helps that we're flat except for the river valleys.

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2015/03/24/upper-arlington-ohio-911-calls-indicate-wide-spread-damage-from-upper-arlington-house-explosion.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7swVygIhonI

:(

[SteveH]

Infrared video of huge Southern California methane leak makes plume visible (http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/12/infrared-video-of-huge-southern-california-methane-leak-makes-plume-visible/)

exfJ8VPQDTY

[Tifosi24]

Here are my two cents worth after reading the article. First, the gas company hasn't been misleading in saying that the leak was coming from the storage facility and now saying it is from an injection well. The well might be the source of the leak, but the gas is still coming out of the storage facility. I didn't read the comment section, because I already have little faith in humanity, but drilling a relief well to fix the existing problem seems like a reasonable solution. One might think that a way to solve this problem would be to just remove all of the gas from storage, but you can't do that. Generally speaking, you have to maintain a certain level of gas inside of the storage facility or it will become structurally unstable (e.g., collapse in on itself, earthquakes ala Oklahoma).

In terms of having a storage facility in an earthquake zone, if you look at the map cameraman posted, the fields in SoCal are depleted reservoirs which means that prior to be drilled for natural gas years ago these places contained gas for millions of years. They no doubt saw many earthquakes prior to humans showing up and survived. The law of averages would say they can keep that up for millions more, so I don't have any problem with using them for storage and I wouldn't worry too much if I lived near one.

I will second what others have said about not being worried about the neighborhood blowing up. There are pumping stations all over my part of town, and there is a mercaptin facility for propane a mile from my house, and every once in a while there will be a small leak and it will smell terrible. We haven't been evacuated yet, and my counterparts at the utilities, who I trust, have told me not to worry.

Finally, this incident hopefully will shed some light on the amount of natural gas that is being silently lost everyday because of old infrastructure and leaks that are too small to identify. I saw a presentation on this a couple years ago and it was an eye opener.

[cameraman]

Yeah there is a permanent cloud of methane over the four corners area that has been there for at least a decade. They've been looking for the source for a year or more and it looks like it isn't one leak but hundreds of small leaks in the gas production infrastructure in the area along with coal operations and even feed lot sewage lagoons. It all adds up to a whole lot of methane in the atmosphere and some of the worst smog in the nation even though few people actually live there.

[TravelGal]

Yes, methane has no odor.
Natural gas like you use in your home in a blend of gasses with an odorant added: methyl mercaptan (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MHMI/mmg139.pdf) . The odor threshold for methyl mercaptan is 1 part per billion. By the time it reaches an explosive mix, you will have been running down the street for some time. Hard part if the odor is so offensive, even a small amount makes people feel sick.

Thank you all. This ^^^ is the problem. People vomiting all over the place. Kids at the school nurse 6x normal. That's why they have been relocated. Aside from the "go boom" issue in their neighborhood. The City is looking to put up about 4500 people total. They are paying for their pets also. Plus guards to keep the neighborhood hoods out of the abandoned houses.

Anyway, you guys are the bomb. HAHA. Seriously, I never had any problem with the storage facility being nearby. I just wanted to know when I should get concerned when the high winds blew the stink in my direction. "Running down the street for some time" was the answer I needed. :gomer:

[Elmo T]

The explosion range of methane is between 5%-15%. So greater than 5% of the total atmosphere would need to be methane before you go boom. You would want to be out of there by the time it reaches 1% which is still a lot of gas over that amount of area.

[TravelGal]

The explosion range of methane is between 5%-15%. So greater than 5% of the total atmosphere would need to be methane before you go boom. You would want to be out of there by the time it reaches 1% which is still a lot of gas over that amount of area.

Good to know. Thanks again. Speaking of the neighborhood hoods, one of our Christmas decorations was stolen off our lawn last night. I hope they cut themselves to ribbons on it. :mad:

[TravelGal]

Yeah there is a permanent cloud of methane over the four corners area that has been there for at least a decade. They've been looking for the source for a year or more and it looks like it isn't one leak but hundreds of small leaks in the gas production infrastructure in the area along with coal operations and even feed lot sewage lagoons. It all adds up to a whole lot of methane in the atmosphere and some of the worst smog in the nation even though few people actually live there.

Your comment made me read more about it on High Country News. I love that publication. So much happening that is not covered on the city-centric news. http://www.hcn.org/articles/slow-motion-methane-disaster-in-california?utm_source=wcn1&utm_medium=email

[Napoleon]

Notice all of the stuff in Eastern oHIo and Western PA. That's what I keep an eye on. :saywhat:

There is a big one in the North Canton area I am aware of.

[Napoleon]

In terms of having a storage facility in an earthquake zone, if you look at the map cameraman posted, the fields in SoCal are depleted reservoirs . . .

My impression was that was always what they used, but perhaps that is just in my part of the country, NE Ohio, which has a rich O&G drilling history (and for that matter many active wells and current drilling activity).

[Tifosi24]

My impression was that was always what they used, but perhaps that is just in my part of the country, NE Ohio, which has a rich O&G drilling history (and for that matter many active wells and current drilling activity).

Old reservoirs are far and away the most prevalent storage facilities, but storage in aquifers is also popular in my part of the country. There have been significant increases in the amount of storage capacity lately, so cameraman's map (circa 2010) may be a little long in the tooth.

[Napoleon]

By chance, I am working on something for work involving oil and gas and ran into this, which although it appears to have been generated as part of a study on the feasibility of CO2 sequestration, shows gas storage in my part of the world (in particular second page, top left corner).

http://geosurvey.ohiodnr.gov/portals/geosurvey/PDFs/Posters/AAPGNatl2005_Wickstrom.pdf

[dando]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/07/us/california-porter-ranch-gas-leak-emergency/index.html

:(

[TravelGal]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/07/us/california-porter-ranch-gas-leak-emergency/index.html

:(

Yep, you scoffed but I told ya it was a problem.

[dando]

Yep, you scoffed but I told ya it was a problem.

Didn't really scoff at it...just source and cause. No idea they had nat gas reservoirs in a major earthquake area. :saywhat: :shakehead:

[SteveH]

In California, natural gas availability still an issue 3 years after major leak (https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/06/in-california-natural-gas-availability-still-an-issue-3-years-after-major-leak/)

[TravelGal]

In California, natural gas availability still an issue 3 years after major leak (https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/06/in-california-natural-gas-availability-still-an-issue-3-years-after-major-leak/)

"The May technical report suggested that, if natural gas pipelines can't be repaired in time, power companies should import Liquified Natural Gas (LNG) from Mexico, " So now Mexico is our friend? Anyway, so far so good. I have gas heat, cooking, hot water so I hope it is, as part of the article suggests, just crying wolf to get more money. I was taken aback by the phrase that California is "in the process" of shutting down San Onofre Nuclear Power Plant. It closed in 2012 and I hadn't realized the shut down was still in process. The PAYMENT for it is still in dispute but I thought the shut down was completed.