2017 F1 Preseason Thread

[Insomniac]

Too quiet over in this forum!

The teams are set and Manor Racing is done in F1, so we have 10 teams and 20 drivers for 2017.

Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton
Valtteri Bottas

Red Bull Racing
Daniel Ricciardo
Max Verstappen

Ferrari
Sebastian Vettel
Kimi Räikkönen

Force India
Sergio Perez
Esteban Ocon

Williams
Felipe Massa
Lance Stroll

McLaren
Fernando Alonso
Stoffel Vandoorne

Toro Rosso
Daniil Kvyat
Carlos Sainz

Haas F1 Team
Romain Grosjean
Kevin Magnussen

Renault
Nico Hulkenberg
Jolyon Palmer

Sauber
Marcus Ericsson
Pascal Wehrlein

New rules include wider cars and tires along with a lot of aerodynamic changes will make the cars look different from last year. The engine token system is gone and it seems like they'll be able to develop the engine fully during thr season, but they only get 4 engines before penalties start to hit. If a race starts behind the safety car for wet conditions, they will do a standing start when the track is ready to go green instead of a rolling start.

Quick Video: https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2017/2/F1_racing's_2017_regulation_changes_explained.html

Pirelli is already saying don't blame us for their lower degradation tires.


Paul Hembery says there will be no point complaining if the move to lower degradation tyres makes Formula 1 grands prix less exciting because Pirelli is doing what was asked.
https://motorsport.com/f1/news/pirelli-don-t-blame-us-if-f1-races-are-boring-873864/

Lewis Hamilton has started whining already.


Lewis Hamilton says he would prefer that teammates didn’t share data, claiming that drivers should have to “find it all themselves” when it comes to on-track performance.
https://motorsport.com/f1/news/hamilton-calls-for-an-end-to-unfair-intra-team-data-sharing-874877/

I imagine this why he thinks Rosberg won the championship. I can see where he's coming from, but he exposes that he's in it for the driver's championship and it's a team championship. He'd feel a lot diferently if he felt he benefited more from his teammates data.

Car Launch Schedule

2/20
Sauber

2/21
Renault

2/22
Force India

2/23
Mercedes

2/24
Ferrari
McLaren

2/25
Williams

2/26
Toro Rosso
Red Bull
Haas

Test Dates
Barcelona 2/27-3/2, 3/3-3/10

[SteveH]

2S17IKgn_V4

[gerhard911]

:rofl: They pulled an IRL and overdubbed sound from an earlier era. Everybody knows the current cars sound like crap :yuck:

[Insomniac]

Sauber C36 Ferrari: http://www.sauberf1team.com/race-cars/sauber-c36-ferrari

https://image.ibb.co/ex45wF/Sauber_C36_Ferrari_Back_Iso_Mid_Res.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cHXsbF/Sauber_C36_Ferrari_Front_Iso_Mid_Res.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/c3sEqa/Sauber_C36_Ferrari_Front_Low_Mid_Res.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/e76w3v/Sauber_C36_Ferrari_Front_Top_Mid_Res.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ibCEqa/Sauber_C36_Ferrari_Side_Mid_Res.jpg

It would be nice if they could ban the shark fin and all the parts that are in between the sidepod vent and tires as well as the vertical arm that holds up the extended floor. The sidepod should connect directly to the floor with nothing extending away from it.

[opinionated ow]

#YourNameHere Racing

[SteveH]

https://twitter.com/RenaultSport/status/833692710791843840

[WickerBill]

It's really sad the shark fins are back. So, so ugly. They've obviously painted it black and tried to hide it for this reveal, but I'm still gagging.


Also nice to see the phallic noses are still there. :yuck:

[chop456]

2S17IKgn_V4


y8bB7R4SRI4

[WickerBill]

Renault:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5MqGJSXUAAttEE.jpg

[SteveH]

https://i.redd.it/x15f61wjw8hy.jpg

:thumbup:

[SteveH]

https://mobile.twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/834379090060787712?s=09

[SteveH]

http://i.imgur.com/ICnA5pZ.jpg

[WickerBill]

That's the worst one yet. BLEARGH


Look I'm going to say it until I'm blue in the face. Less aero. Get rid of the barge boards and the extended floors. Two-element front and rear wings; no vanes anywhere on the car (including that blasted shark fin).

Then release the majority of the rulebook about suspension. Let them go mad. Bring back some flippin' innovation to the series. Turning vanes and fiddly bits on the wings do not translate to passenger cars. Active suspension and better mechanical grip DOES translate. Who cares if Adrian Newey is bored with F1? Let him go build an airplane.

[Elmo T]

Seems like every photo is staged to hide that shark fin. :rolleyes:

[Pilgrims Drop]

That's the worst one yet. BLEARGH


Look I'm going to say it until I'm blue in the face. Less aero. Get rid of the barge boards and the extended floors. Two-element front and rear wings; no vanes anywhere on the car (including that blasted shark fin).

Then release the majority of the rulebook about suspension. Let them go mad. Bring back some flippin' innovation to the series. Turning vanes and fiddly bits on the wings do not translate to passenger cars. Active suspension and better mechanical grip DOES translate. Who cares if Adrian Newey is bored with F1? Let him go build an airplane.

Well... I used to rant on this very issue a lot.... "get rid of the aero and add mechanical grip" until I listened to the Motosport Magazine podcast featuring Frank Dernie who has worked with Williams, Lotus, Ligier, Benetton, Toyota, Lola etc etc in various roles from Aero Assistant to Chief Designer and Technical Director...

In this podcast he was asked what he'd change to "improve the show of F1" and his answer changed my point of view quite dramatically... of course aero is part of the issue but even more so is the following factors


tires - as you all know after only a handful of laps there are droves of rolled off rubber off the racing line making it near impossible to find any grip there. But sticky tires also affects braking distances making the area for passing is shortened.


Semiautomatic Gearshifts - Now it's so easy to that Franks mum can shift gears just as good as Ayrton Senna. Zero skill involved in shifting gears these days.


Fly-by-wire throttle - 5% increased throttle movement is 5% more torque now... Nearly zero skill involved in throttle control these days.


The podcast is available on youtube and here is a link to it cued up with his response to this...
Frank Dernie Podcast on youtube (https://youtu.be/MtBJKb5vwDM?t=3426)

I highly recommend listening to the entire thing as it is filled with wonderful anecdotes from F1 and CART

They also have some really good guests on their show like, Ross Brawn and Nick Fry telling the amazing story behind Brawn GP, Dario Franchitti, Nigel Mansell, John Surtees, Sir Stirling Moss, Frank Williams, Tom Kristensen, Derek Bell and much much more... if you haven't listened to them already then you're in for a treat... Podcast linkydink (http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/podcasts/all)

Ok that was way off topic so to get it back ontopic... here's the Sauber C36 from todays "Camera Day" at Barcelona
http://www.sauberf1team.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/JS20917.jpg
http://www.sauberf1team.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/JS22368.jpg

[SteveH]

Renault:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5MqGJSXUAAttEE.jpg


What it should have been, thanks to photoshop

http://i.imgur.com/2nzYPJW.png

[Insomniac]

The Mercedes has a much smaller fin, so maybe it's faster to be sans fin!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5WjRWwWIAALYT_.jpg:large

Pilgrim: Every change that was mentioned was mechanical instead of aerodynamic. That's really the point. They need to deemphasize aero to the point where the real gains are on the mechanical side instead of spending compute and wind tunnel time on the aerodynamics.

Tires need to have some competition. If they want less marbles, they probably need to make pit stops longer either via bringing back refueling, reducing the number of people on the tire change crew or further lowering the speed limit on pit lane. Then they will naturally want tires that last longer. Unless there is some other limit they can impose on tire construction.

[WickerBill]

The Mercedes has a much smaller fin, so maybe it's faster to be sans fin!

It's a mohawk instead of a reverse pompadour. Definitely better looking.


-edit-

let me take that back. Check out this monstrosity.

http://d2d0b2rxqzh1q5.cloudfront.net/sv/1.67/dir/ab9/image/ab922f9a308d165ce3c5c1852437d365.jpg

[Pilgrims Drop]

The Mercedes has a much smaller fin, so maybe it's faster to be sans fin!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5WjRWwWIAALYT_.jpg:large

Pilgrim: Every change that was mentioned was mechanical instead of aerodynamic. That's really the point. They need to deemphasize aero to the point where the real gains are on the mechanical side instead of spending compute and wind tunnel time on the aerodynamics.

Tires need to have some competition. If they want less marbles, they probably need to make pit stops longer either via bringing back refueling, reducing the number of people on the tire change crew or further lowering the speed limit on pit lane. Then they will naturally want tires that last longer. Unless there is some other limit they can impose on tire construction.

But aero isn't the magic bullet... it's a contributing factor sure... but it's not the magic bullet. The example Frank gives in the interview of the 1983 F1 season when they removed 80% of the downforce generated is spot on.

In order to have more "natural" overtaking you need to have less grip(mechanical grip combined with aero reduction) and less control on gearshifts/throttle so that skill becomes a factor in braking/accelerating...

But in reality it's a moot point... how can you put the genie back in the bottle??

[Insomniac]

It's a mohawk instead of a reverse pompadour. Definitely better looking.


-edit-

let me take that back. Check out this monstrosity.

http://d2d0b2rxqzh1q5.cloudfront.net/sv/1.67/dir/ab9/image/ab922f9a308d165ce3c5c1852437d365.jpg

At first I thought it still looked fine, but then I spotted the stupid thing near the rear wing. We don't need more of that!

[Insomniac]

But aero isn't the magic bullet... it's a contributing factor sure... but it's not the magic bullet. The example Frank gives in the interview of the 1983 F1 season when they removed 80% of the downforce generated is spot on.

In order to have more "natural" overtaking you need to have less grip(mechanical grip combined with aero reduction) and less control on gearshifts/throttle so that skill becomes a factor in braking/accelerating...

But in reality it's a moot point... how can you put the genie back in the bottle??

I don't think anyone thinks it is, it just needs a major deemphasis. Even on the podcast he noted it's not the sole problem and I think WB and I agree there, but it's a big problem. On the podcast he said at some point he was part of the few to recognize it became the most significant factor in performance/winning.

As I see it, flipping this is only a positive. You reduce the importance of aerodynamics, you simplify the lines on the cars to get rid of the monstrosities of aero bits in the images in this thread. You then focus on the mechanical side of things. It was crazy to hear them say Mansell said he used the same set of tires for 4 races once!

I don't know all the politics in F1, but the constructors have way more power than drivers. If they want to dump some technology/advancements they can dump it. They also have to recognize all their prize money comes from selling entertainment. Parades don't generate revenue.

[WickerBill]

Ferrari:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5bYWX_XEAEyYFR.jpg


McLaren/Arrows:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5bWw74WcAAa1Ni.jpg

(Seriously, boys... you could've used the hard compound for the photo shoot)

[WickerBill]

I think this is my biggest issue with the appearance so far:

924
925


It's the highest point of the car, seemingly. This wouldn't look *quite* as bad if the rear wing were still up in the air more. Still annoyed they opened the loophole to bring the fins back.

[SteveH]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5a7sFfXEAA0E3_.jpg:orig

[WickerBill]

Interesting. Most notably, how much smoother the Ferrari sidepod is than the lumpy Mercedes, and how much seemingly smaller the Ferrari cockpit opening is.

[Insomniac]

I think this is my biggest issue with the appearance so far:

924
925


It's the highest point of the car, seemingly. This wouldn't look *quite* as bad if the rear wing were still up in the air more. Still annoyed they opened the loophole to bring the fins back.

It does seem a bit weird that the rear wing is lower than the body, but it does seem sleeker by itself.

[Insomniac]

It seems pretty sad that Ferrari doesn't have one major sponsor. I'm not sure what it means though.

[SteveH]

F1: WHY ARE SO MANY TEAMS RUNNING SHARK FINS? (https://drivetribe.com/t/G2u-FvWTRiSSNSdxpbergw?iid=d453UhXJTnSNUn0yJZeiiA)

[Gnam]

Sauber's nostril looking air intake displeases me.

[SteveH]

Williams Reveals FW40 for the New Era of Formula One
(http://www.williamsf1.com/racing/news/williams-reveals-fw40)

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/williams-fw40-three-quarter.jpg

[SteveH]

http://i.imgur.com/hl4PnNf.jpg

[WickerBill]

Okay, that shark fin isn't so bad.

*stands up, salutes*

[SteveH]

Fake news, looks like it was shopped

https://i.imgur.com/rhGBPAD.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/Formula1Portugal/photos/a.202625999770678.53296.198910106808934/1477544332278832/?type=3&theater

[opinionated ow]

It seems pretty sad that Ferrari doesn't have one major sponsor. I'm not sure what it means though.

I'm pretty sure the major sponsor of Ferrari is Philip Morris International, i.e. Marlboro. At least until the end of 2015, they bought the entire car space bar the ferrari logos, numbers etc. and flogged them off to other people.

[Insomniac]

I'm pretty sure the major sponsor of Ferrari is Philip Morris International, i.e. Marlboro. At least until the end of 2015, they bought the entire car space bar the ferrari logos, numbers etc. and flogged them off to other people.

I didn't mean from a business standpoint, more from the car's looks. Three logos on the sidepod for Ferrari makes them seems like they're a lower tier team. One major sponsor like Mercedes Petronas looks a lot better.

But on a business side, if MO is still paying for sponsorship, they're just lighting money on fire (unless they had some crazy contract that they can't get out of but somehow let them sell off advertising).

[Insomniac]

Red Bulls get in on the action. Dramatically different Torro Roso paint scheme. I like it! Also, they got advice from WB and have chosen tires with matching Pirelli logos (although, this silver compound may be illegal :D).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5m-IODWUAAVJSa.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5l87i7XMAMKycU.jpg:large

[WickerBill]

Loving that Toro Rosso livery. Hope it looks that good on track.


Any way to watch preseason testing online this week?

[SteveH]

https://i.redd.it/bggl58dkl8iy.jpg

[WickerBill]

Judging by those pictures, I'd have to say Williams looks like they've missed something important in the nose cone compared with every other car.

[SteveH]

What if the fins were removed?
http://m.imgur.com/a/cwZBj

[Elmo T]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrFNZRxDe8c&t=86s

[Insomniac]

What if the fins were removed?
http://m.imgur.com/a/cwZBj

It's a shame a quick photoshop can make the cars look so much better but the rules makers can't do the same. :(

[Insomniac]

Williams rookie crashed Tuesday and cut testing short that day and crashed yesterday and they can't run today. Ouch.

[SteveH]

Williams rookie crashed Tuesday and cut testing short that day and crashed yesterday and they can't run today. Ouch.

https://www.hasstrollcrashedyet.com/

[Insomniac]

Interview with Ross Brawn. He talks about trying to make the cars look more pure over time.

https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2017/3/Ross_Brawn_on_the_2017_season_and_the_future_of_F1 .html

[Insomniac]

https://www.hasstrollcrashedyet.com/

:rofl: That didn't take long to get created.

[Gnam]

https://www.hasstrollcrashedyet.com/
:laugh: So mean.

Reminds me of tracking Parker Johnstone's crashes.

[Insomniac]

This sure would be nice!


Red Bull boss Christian Horner wants Formula 1 teams to get together to discuss ditching the shark fins from Formula 1's 2017 designs, amid growing criticism that they have ruined the look of the cars.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/horner-wants-f1-team-talks-to-ditch-shark-fins-880229/

[WickerBill]

Testing this morning revealed what we all feared. Everyone's running fairly aggressively, short stints, and the McLaren - one Fernando flippin' Alonso - is the slowest man on the track.

The loss of the Manors may deal its biggest blow to "mighty McLaren".

[Insomniac]

Interesting what they're saying about starts. The way they explain it now, last year it was beyond easy. The engineers set it up and all the driver had to do was release the clutch anywhere between 10 and 80% and you had the start as set up. All of that will be gone this year. If starts were that easy, why did Hamilton struggle so bad?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/revealed-new-f1-start-rules-will-be-a-lot-harder-for-drivers-880670/

[cameraman]

There were a whole lot of bad starts last year and it was not only Hamilton that was having problems. Just ask Verstappen. Maybe whatever kludge Magnussen was driving was simple but the cars at the front of the grid were not having an easy time of it.

[SteveH]

https://hasmclarenbrokendown.com/

[WickerBill]

Just leaving this here for everyone's entertainment. Never fails to make me smile.

a7Wci2uMvwA

[WickerBill]

Force India gain a new sponsor, and a new livery....

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/C64Mf6KWwAAQ7G2.jpg

[SteveH]

I wonder what their hats will look like :gomer:

[Insomniac]

I think that's nicer. I like it.

[WickerBill]

I think that's nicer. I like it.

I'm all for instant identifiability, and this fits that bill nicely.


But now I want to chew bubble gum.

[Insomniac]

I'm all for instant identifiability, and this fits that bill nicely.


But now I want to chew bubble gum.

I think that's one good thing. I also think they chose a good color for the pink and it's unique. A big divergence from the usual color palettes.

[cameraman]

I wonder what their hats will look like :gomer:

The drivers helmets will be a matching pink

[Insomniac]

Looks like the car changes are going to be dramatic. Who knows if the relative order will be shaken up, but watch this comparison of the Hamilton Pole lap to Raikkonen's test lap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io00mlLdRTM

[Insomniac]

Bernie Being Pushed Aside Quickly (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-4327366/As-Formula-One-returns-new-owners-Bernie-bites-back.html)


'I can't do anything,' he says. 'Even the staff have been told they shouldn't talk to me. They want to get rid of the Bernie era: "Let's get rid of Bernie's history". They always say the same thing. They probably think it makes me happy but it doesn't: "He has done a super job and a fantastic job but we have to move on", and they may be right. We don't know whether they are or not. A lot of the things, I would have done if I could.'

What is clear is that Liberty want to take F1 in a different direction. They want to be seen as modernisers. They are said to be uneasy about the sport's association with regimes in places such as Azerbaijan and Bahrain, which have highly questionable human rights records. They are said to want to safeguard the races in F1's European heartlands.

[WickerBill]

Agree with Bahrain and Az. Replace with a second US race and bring back France.

[opinionated ow]

The heart of the series really should be Europe. That means Silverstone, Monza, Nurburgring, Hockenheim, Imola, France, Red Bull Ring, Catalunya, Monaco, Spa-Francorchamps and then make it up to 12 or 13 with some combination of Zandvoort, something in Portugal, something in Scandinavia.

Then get it to 20 races with Australia, Canada, Japan, Malaysia, China, Brazil, Mexico, USA. If you can convince the teams up to 22 races a second one in North America.

[SteveH]

I agree with an Euro-centric schedule. However the Malaysian race will cease (http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38061412) in 2018

So add at least 2 more in the US :gomer:

[Insomniac]

Someone had a good plan with a core of races every year and and then a group of races that rotate from season to season. I don't know if they need the annual races to keep momentum for attendance however.

[WickerBill]

Methinks a Dutch GP would be pretty popular for the next decade

[muskoka fan]

Agree with Bahrain and Az. Replace with a second US race and bring back France.

France is back for 2018 apparently at Paul Ricard.