2017 F1 Race Weekend Thread (Potential Spoilers, Watch First!)

[WickerBill]

I watched Sky again and the announcers were different, yet again. But yes stroker, announcers LOVE to try to inject themselves into the action.

[cameraman]

Sky has quite a few people, some in rotation some not.

Always there
Simon Lazenby - On track host
David Croft - Race commentary
Ted Kravitz - Pit lane reporter
Martin Brundle - Race commentary & pre/post pit lane *missed a couple this year due to illness
Rachel Brooks - Pen interviews & practice sessions

Most of the time
Paul di Resta - race analysis
Damon Hill - race analysis

European races
Pat Symonds - technical analysis

part timers
Johnny Herbert - often annoying race analysis
Natalie Pinkham - only short trip pen interviews since she had her kids
Anthony Davidson - sub for Paul di Resta

Paddock Uncut
Ted Kravitz

F1 Report
Natalie Pinkham
Rachel Brooks
Mark Priestley
Pat Symonds
Mark Hughes

[Insomniac]

Ferrari had nothing today. Theories on why? Just power with 6 of the top 10 being Mercedes powered?

Tough break for Max getting the puncture colliding with Massa. Good jobs by the younger drivers to start up front an remain in front of their more experienced teammates. They made the best of their opportunities.

I have 2 ideas that might improve F1.

When they have rain during qualifying that isn't enough to be dangerous, but results in too much spray/lack of visibility, they should switch to qualifying one car at a time. Just run them in reverse order of the last practice and send the next car out as soon as the previous car sets their time. One flying lap to set the grid.

On the grid spot penalties, I think an alternative method should be penalty points. It does not remove the incentive to score as many as possible, it does not impact on track performance, but levies a penalty. It should be based on the average performance to date, not some fixed # of points. For any driver, their penalty would be equivalent to their average finish to date. So if Hamilton needs a new engine past the limit, it would cost him 15 points (average finish is 2.61 [always round up]). If Alonso needs one, 0 points (15.15 avg).

[SteveH]

Rather than grid penalties, deduct points from the constructors championship points but don't penalize the driver by dropping them down in starting order

[nissan gtp]

Make the penalty a percentage of the FIA payout, and make it enough to hurt, say 5% per race weekend The money raised would go to the teams that finish below the team that got the penalty.

[WickerBill]

Simplify the engines, allow teams one for every three races.

Those two things have to go hand-in-hand, so the engine supply for a season drops from current $25mm to <less than that> but the teams get more engines.

Penalties would only be incurred for teams with massive problems or teams desperate (HONDA) to upgrade their power units. The grid penalties are ludicrous - and doesn't the rule change next year so you have to serve out your whole grid spot penalty, regardless of how many races it takes? So a 35 spot grid penalty could see a Honda car starting in last place for several months.


Race:
Verstappen is faster than Ricciardo. But Ricciardo is 3x the actual race driver Max is. Two of his passes were just sublime, in a race where most of the passing was pretty dull.

If you're Ricciardo (or Verstappen), what do you do when your contract is up? Ferrari clearly wants a #2 for Vettel (and by their one season together, RIC is at least a match for Vettel). Mercedes is almost a guaranteed bad relationship with your teammate. But do you stay put with Red Bull and hope they come true again, like 2010-2013? That's a really tough decision the guys have to make.


That was maybe the dullest race of the season so far. Here's hoping for some fireworks in Singapore.

[Insomniac]

Simplify the engines, allow teams one for every three races.

Those two things have to go hand-in-hand, so the engine supply for a season drops from current $25mm to <less than that> but the teams get more engines.

Penalties would only be incurred for teams with massive problems or teams desperate (HONDA) to upgrade their power units. The grid penalties are ludicrous - and doesn't the rule change next year so you have to serve out your whole grid spot penalty, regardless of how many races it takes? So a 35 spot grid penalty could see a Honda car starting in last place for several months.


Race:
Verstappen is faster than Ricciardo. But Ricciardo is 3x the actual race driver Max is. Two of his passes were just sublime, in a race where most of the passing was pretty dull.

If you're Ricciardo (or Verstappen), what do you do when your contract is up? Ferrari clearly wants a #2 for Vettel (and by their one season together, RIC is at least a match for Vettel). Mercedes is almost a guaranteed bad relationship with your teammate. But do you stay put with Red Bull and hope they come true again, like 2010-2013? That's a really tough decision the guys have to make.


That was maybe the dullest race of the season so far. Here's hoping for some fireworks in Singapore.

I think they clearly thought it would be much simpler to build reliable engines and the penalties were meant to dissuade teams from swapping engines when they felt like it. Someone needs to realize they are going to push them as much as they can no matter what. Does using 4 engines versus say one per race really make that big of a cost difference? It's not like they manufacture 20 engines. They reuse parts, rebuild the engines, replace other parts.

I agree simpler engines would help with costs. It's ridiculous that there are all these interchangeable components that all separately count toward the limits. One engine should last X races. Really, they should also stop with the ability to swap engines, it should be consecutive races. If you need one before then, penalty.

I'd want the Mercedes seat first right now. You know you will be able to compete and you can deal with Lewis knowing the team will have your back if you behave properly. Ferrari #2 is where I'd go next, provided there isn't some contractual nonsense where Vettel is #1 no matter what. If you're better than Vettel, you'll be the #1. #1 and #2 works when the #1 driver is clearly better than the #2 driver. So you wonder since that is Ferrari's M.O., would they even consider a driver that could be as good as, or better than their #1?

If I'm Red Bull, I try and release one driver to Mercedes for a Mercedes engine deal. :D Going to lose one regardless in 2019. They aren't going to close the engine gap before the new engines in 2021.

[WickerBill]

Let's ask this question:

Where does McLaren fit in the field next year with Renault?

A. Wins
B. Podiums
C. Always in Q3
D. About the same as they are

[Insomniac]

Let's ask this question:

Where does McLaren fit in the field next year with Renault?

A. Wins
B. Podiums
C. Always in Q3
D. About the same as they are

I'd go with C. They'll be behind Red Bull IMO. Red Bull is going to have the better car and they'll have the same power.

[WickerBill]

More stupid, reckless driving from Vettel today. I don't understand how he can just assume that a) he can bully Verstappen to the left, and b) that the left of Verstappen is actually available. I don't know what comes over drivers when they're in that red car, but Vettel basically cost Ferrari a shot at the constructor's championship today (unless Mercedes gives it back, which they most certainly won't).

[Insomniac]

More stupid, reckless driving from Vettel today. I don't understand how he can just assume that a) he can bully Verstappen to the left, and b) that the left of Verstappen is actually available. I don't know what comes over drivers when they're in that red car, but Vettel basically cost Ferrari a shot at the constructor's championship today (unless Mercedes gives it back, which they most certainly won't).

I initially focused on Verstappen and blamed him, but then seeing how much Vettel moved over, he may've hit Kimi himself if Verstappen had backed out. The move was pretty egregious, it wasn't a chop. The stewards really have to crack down on trying to drive another car off their line/track like that. They let that type of manuever go. It's way more than one move/blocking. However, I think Verstappen's immaturity showed. I thought he just didn't know Kimi was there, but his comments later showed he clearly knew and was happy to take everyone out with him before backing off. Both Ferrari's were clearly ahead of him.

It's a shame. The whole incident ruined the race and the championships are basically over without serious Mercedes troubles to help.

[SteveH]

I think VET had no idea that RAI had such a great start and was besides VER. VER had no where to go. Had RAI not had such a great start, VET's move would have caused VER to change his line into the corner which otherwise I'm fine with. To me its a racing deal. Not malicious, not stupid, just racing.

[datachicane]

I think VET had no idea that RAI had such a great start and was besides VER. VER had no where to go. Had RAI not had such a great start, VET's move would have caused VER to change his line into the corner which otherwise I'm fine with. To me its a racing deal. Not malicious, not stupid, just racing.

+1

[Insomniac]

I think VET had no idea that RAI had such a great start and was besides VER. VER had no where to go. Had RAI not had such a great start, VET's move would have caused VER to change his line into the corner which otherwise I'm fine with. To me its a racing deal. Not malicious, not stupid, just racing.

I think I'm opposed to cars forcing other cars into different positions once they are somewhat besides them. Maintain your line or move into empty track and drive your car. The time to maneuver and force the other car to move was when they were behind you. I'm getting pretty sick of seeing other drivers drive other cars off the track, into the wall or generally squeezing them. If your car slides or whatever in a turn, so be it, but these are clearly extra maneuvers that never would've happened if the other car wasn't there. Another example is Rosberg going way deep into the turn a couple times last year.

[WickerBill]

The funny thing is, Rosberg got penalized for it at one race last year and didn't even make contact! Just drove Lewis through the chicane.

This one caused a three-car collision. The difference is the paint scheme on the car.

[Insomniac]

The funny thing is, Rosberg got penalized for it at one race last year and didn't even make contact! Just drove Lewis through the chicane.

This one caused a three-car collision. The difference is the paint scheme on the car.

I don't know about that. He was also a DNF. Maybe penalty points, but they seem to treat actions in a turn different from straights. I however think it's the same. It's too late to call it defending and/or blocking. It's an unnatural move intended to force another driver behind you to take evasive action. Max should not have to back out there to avoid a collision or swerve off his line. If it was a corner/turn and they're both aiming for the apex, Max has to back off because he wasn't far enough along side, but on the straight...

In a sport that is already difficult to pass, they need to be even more vigilant on this stuff IMO.

[chop456]

So don't swerve off your line to avoid being hit and the problem fixes itself. Had Raikkonen not been involved and Vettel makes the same move while Verstappen holds his line, Vettel gets a penalty and thinks twice next time. Obviously a better idea at 100 than 190, but...

[WickerBill]

So don't swerve off your line to avoid being hit and the problem fixes itself. Had Raikkonen not been involved and Vettel makes the same move while Verstappen holds his line, Vettel gets a penalty and thinks twice next time. Obviously a better idea at 100 than 190, but...

That's gotta be a tough thing to teach. "Go ahead and let the guy hit you, it'll pay off in penalties"...

[chop456]

Just like taking a charge. Injuries are temporary - drawing a foul covers you in glory forever. Big babies! :tony:

[Insomniac]

That's gotta be a tough thing to teach. "Go ahead and let the guy hit you, it'll pay off in penalties"...

Not to mention you risk being taken out of the race. But it would be a good proclamation to make before hand. If anyone tries any crazy crap on me, I'm warning everyone that I will not make any evasive maneuvers.

[opinionated ow]

Not to mention you risk being taken out of the race. But it would be a good proclamation to make before hand. If anyone tries any crazy crap on me, I'm warning everyone that I will not make any evasive maneuvers.

That was pretty much Senna. He'd put you into a position where you'd have a collision if you didn't lift. If you lifted he had you mentally destroyed

[nissan gtp]

That was pretty much Senna. He'd put you into a position where you'd have a collision if you didn't lift. If you lifted he had you mentally destroyed

that’s what Martin Brundel said about Senna

[opinionated ow]

that’s what Martin Brundel said about Senna

That's right. Couldn't remember who I was paraphrasing

[Insomniac]

For the next Grands Prix, Pierre Gasly will be driving for Scuderia Toro Rosso, standing in for Daniil Kvyat, alongside Carlos Sainz.
http://www.scuderiatororosso.com/en_IT/article/pierre-gasly-drive-scuderia-toro-rosso

Not all that surprising. Doesn't mean Kvyat is out of a seat yet, but Toro Rosso has to fill Sainz's seat for 2018.

[Insomniac]

New video of Stroll's in car when he and Vettel collided on the in lap.

https://streamable.com/3rc1s

100% on Vettel. His brain has switched off at least twice this season. He seems pretty entitled, always the other guy.